Did my affair destroy our compatibility?

[merrmeade]

I responded to parts of your first post within the post.

Sometimes I wonder if my affair just ruined us for good, or we are still going through the normal pains of reconciliation. We are a little over a year out, which I know is still "young" in the standard quoted 2-5 year recovery timeframe. One year is still just the beginning. The betrayed spouse can still be quite reactive or volatile.

 

Our communication is really...poor. I feel like we don't get each other at all. He thinks I am really harsh and insensitive and I think he is OVERLY sensitive and out to lunch.

Isn't "out to lunch" pejorative and "harsh, (in)sensitive" more neutral?

 

Sometimes I will avoid telling him things about my day because I know that he will respond in a "devil's advocate" way and I honestly don't know why he does it. Why always have an opposing opinion?

I don't know why either - exactly - but have some ideas about it. More on that later...

Sometimes I could just use an empathetic ear.

Just a general comment: Whether he should "work on" something here or not, the wayward's only job is to prove sincere remorse and show empathy, not judge the betrayed spouse. And how are you judging? Against what standards? Normalcy? You can't expect normalcy for a long time. In fact, you can't expect anything.

Even just a silly story like, can you believe our neighbor "borrowed" all 12 of our eggs AGAIN?? I can't say it to him because his response will be, isn't that sweet, that she will come to you with her needs. Meanwhile I am rolling my eyes because I just wanted my husband to say, geez, that's annoying!! And laugh with me. Like a friend of mine would.

Oh my, oh my, this stings even more. Rolling your eyes?!? That's an expression of (more) scorn, impatience, and once again annoyance. I should expect "Lighten up already" to follow. It is not the expression of an open, honest, vulnerable partner. Have you told him to "just get over it" yet?

He will even go so far, in a conversation like that, to scold me...like, whoa, whoa, slow down there with that tone. As if I am being offensive. To whom? I am sharing a silly story with my husband, the one and only person I can do that with.

Have you explained all this as it happens - without the reactive anger? Like - show your surprise and confusion. Ask him to please "slow down there with that tone" because it feels like you're being scolded, as if you've said something offensive. Sounds to me like he's playing dumb how it makes you feel.

 

The other day we were riding in the car and a (what I thought was random) song was playing on the radio. I found it annoying and said, "Do you like that?", hoping to change it. Apparently he had been playing it on purpose and got very offended.

This one is so transparent that I can't believe you don't see it. Ummm, hello - you've criticized his taste in music! And it's worse than blatant; your rhetorical question expresses, once again, scorn, derision, disgust. Then, you make it worse by your shock that some people actually want to listen to that song. I mean who does that to anyone? Of course he got offended!

He turned it and then later corrected me: If you don't like someone else's music, you should say it in a different way...

Now, this I agree is out of tune with the situation, and there IS a problem with his 'scolding' and preaching, the least of which is that it 'annoys' you. The problem is that he's in some strange intellectual analysis of what you're doing, maybe even playing power games, but he is not focused on how it makes him feel. What you did and said was hurtful and that's what he should feel, show and express. It's not good for him to deny that and not good for the relationship. He can't fix you and shouldn't try. You need to see the raw reaction in response to your feigned innocence.

 

Have you ever heard someone excuse a racist or sexist remark by saying it was "just a joke," which makes it the fault of the listener for being offended? Same.

 

Okay. I get it. However I didn't even know you had chosen that music.

 

Even if we are having "nice" conversation and he's trying to respond normally, it's like we are on two different wavelengths. He's responding and I'm always course-correcting...no, that's not what I meant. No, not exactly.

This is the kind of thing - communication - that marriage counseling works on.

 

I just...we can't even talk to each other. He frustrates me. I offend him.

 

Is this normal for recovery? Are we just different now? I don't know what to think.

Agreed you're both tiptoeing around real issues and denying what's really happening.

[GoldenR]

SS -

 

I know that this is hard. I don't have a crystal ball or anything of the sort. But you at least kind of know of me, what my posts are like. And yet, in your case, I think that you're actually doing ok in R. I think your H loves you very much. And I am rooting for you.

 

You guys are, for lack of better words, trying too hard to just live. While you can't control your H, you most certainly can control you. When he comes at you from a place of seemingly unwarranted defensiveness, be kind to him. Be loving to him. It won't be easy. It's difficult to not fight back when attacked. But you need to do just that. Remember, you and only you put the two of you in this situation. So cut him some slack, and just love him. (You do love him, don't you?)

 

I'll keep following your story....

[waterwoman]

I was like this for a long time. I really didn't want to be. It was insecurity and fear that was driving it. I was so confused, angry, scared and unstable. I interpreted every action or word of his as being critical of me. It was dreadful. I'm not sure what I needed but I got it in the end and we are at a good place.

[Unforseen]

I do understand that I created the very situation I am now sad about.

 

I am still sad about it.

 

I've been trying to fix it and am still trying to fix it. Maybe I won't be able to, in the end. But I'm going to keep trying. No one is perfect and my behavior was one example of that.

 

My questioning...it comes from fear. Will I ever get him back fully? Will we ever be okay? Will this pain dissipate? Will I ever feel worthy enough? Will I always wonder what he's thinking? Will I always mourn that he can't look at me like he used to?

 

Southern Sun, I'm sorry, but you know we cannot answer that question. But I can say it is possible. A huge help for me was realizing that my marriage was dead and gone. My Wife's A saw to that. There was nothing left to be fixed. The only thing I had to work with was myself. And here we are almost 2 years later with a number of nasty set backs. I can say I am happy I don't have my original wife any more. The woman she is becoming since she cheated on me is unbelievably different and more wonderful in about damn near every way. As for myself, I have mad similar improvements. Yeah her affairs were 100% on her, but with my desire for R, I realized that I own about half of the new marriage we are trying to grow together.

 

Will you two ever be okay? That depends on how things progress. It is possible though.

 

Will the pain dissipate? Eventually. When I am overcome by the pain and bad memories of those hurtful feelings about the only thing that truly helps me is to sit with my W and quietly explain to her what I'm experiencing. It took me about 18 months to be able to consistently put the anger on the shelf and filter out snide, hurtful and passive agressive words and just explain how hurt and angry I was feeling or how some stupid seeming little meaningless thing triggered me. It is such a difficult thing for a man who has been socialized to believe that being vulnerable is a fate worse than death to be able to be authentic and vulnerable to the person that left him in such a tangled mess. About all my wife will say to me is how truly sorry she is for all the pain that she has caused and how deeply she regrets her actions.

 

Will you ever feel worthy enough? Dear God I pray it is so. There is almost no worse feeling than shame and the associated feelings of unworthiness that come with it. Yes you did horrible things, but those decisions do not define who you are. You will need a healthy dose of empathy on a regular basis to help dissipate the shame and feelings of unworthiness. I do not think your husband is able to offer that to you yet. In the meantime a therapist, girl friend, or family member may be needed to listen to your story and how it is hurting you and to empathize with you so that you can feel that you are still worthy of being loved and that you are not alone.

 

Since you are big on the self help books, please check out this one:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Men-Women-Worthiness-Experience-Enough/dp/B00D4APD3M

 

I really liked the audio version as it was narrated by the author and she's a kick to listen to. It will also offer some insight to your husband's behavior. If he's anything like me, he is fully feeling the effects of shame.

[dichotomy]

You took something away from the marriage...forever.

 

Its like you chopped of his hand and wonder when it will grow back. It wont, he can only learn to accept being handicapped from now on.

 

Your going to have to build something new and different in the marriage and your compatibility.

 

I dont feel or think about my wife in the same way anymore - I am (was) dealing with a loss and finding myself "hitched" to a woman I did not propose to marry - a different woman was with me and I did not like her at all.

 

I have read many WW (or WH) grow very tired of walking on egg shells and being sorry and accommodating after they cheat. Also wondering when they get their marriage back. Its normal - if a bit self centered and selfish.

Edited June 23, 2017 by dichotomy

[Cephalopod]

I have to hope we are not inevitably marching in that direction.

 

Like I said it was not my intent to demean you or hurt you. I was only pointing out that I look at your husband's behavior pattern and I see a lot of me in there.

[Southern Sun]

SS -

 

I know that this is hard. I don't have a crystal ball or anything of the sort. But you at least kind of know of me, what my posts are like. And yet, in your case, I think that you're actually doing ok in R. I think your H loves you very much. And I am rooting for you.

 

You guys are, for lack of better words, trying too hard to just live. While you can't control your H, you most certainly can control you. When he comes at you from a place of seemingly unwarranted defensiveness, be kind to him. Be loving to him. It won't be easy. It's difficult to not fight back when attacked. But you need to do just that. Remember, you and only you put the two of you in this situation. So cut him some slack, and just love him. (You do love him, don't you?)

 

I'll keep following your story....

 

Thank you, GoldenR. Yes, I love him very much.

[Southern Sun]

I responded to parts of your first post within the post. Agreed you're both tiptoeing around real issues and denying what's really happening.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Are you saying that I was using more neutral terms to describe myself, and more insulting terms to describe him? I did not mean anything by that, if so. He comes up with far more insulting terms to describe me when he wants to.

 

When I used "out to lunch", I was trying to come up with a way to describe what I talked about later in my post. Perhaps that was a bad term. But it is like I will be talking about one thing, heading in a specific direction, and he is just not following. It is perplexing to me. I don't know whether he was like this before the affair. It makes having a conversation hard. This would be the case whether he was my H, my friend, a colleague, whomever. It isn't that he's disagreeing with me or having his own opinion. It is actually like he's trying to speak for me, or affirming what he's hearing, and it's incorrect. It's quite strange. Just not normal conversational flow. It makes me feel as if we are off-kilter or misfiring.

 

Now I've spent too much time on this. Not really that important I guess. I am just trying to explain what I meant.

 

When I said "rolling my eyes", I didn't mean literally. I was simply trying to convey the feeling of the situation. I do not roll my eyes over trying to talk to my H about a silly story. This is me attempting to get across how this FEELS - I say one thing, sort of hoping for a little laugh and like, that's crazy, hon! kind of empathy. But i get something entirely different that can feel like my H is actually taking sides against me. I realize now I may be taking it entirely wrong. I was just trying to describe my feeling of exasperation. And honest-to-goodness isolation at this point.

[Friskyone4u]

Southern

 

I think as you said you are spending too much time on some things. Your job right now is only two fold

(1) do not break NC with OM

(2) let hubby proceed at his own pace and do not try to analyze everything.

 

All this working on yourself stuff boils down to one thing. Do not get naked with any man again other than your husband. The less you mentally spread yourself around the easier it will be to concentrate on the simple.

 

Sometimes there is just too much overthinking

[elaine567]

I say one thing, sort of hoping for a little laugh and like, that's crazy, hon! kind of empathy. But i get something entirely different that can feel like my H is actually taking sides against me. I realize now I may be taking it entirely wrong. I was just trying to describe my feeling of exasperation. And honest-to-goodness isolation at this point.

 

This is what happens when you try to share a funny story or event with someone who dislikes you, is sulking with you or who hates you.

They tear the story to bits to make it unfunny and to humiliate you.

In order to share a joke there needs to be a rapport, a common bond. There needs to be two or more people who are open to being amused. Your husband is deliberately refusing to be amused and he is refusing to build a rapport with you as he is mad at you, he dislikes you and may indeed even hate you at the moment. He is in no mood to laugh or to share any humour with you, so he instead "doesn't get" your "joke", and you are left alone with a funny story that isn't funny at all...

[Cymbeline]

Then Greek roots of the word 'psychotherapy' means 'attending to the soul'

 

We are all works in progress and the attitudes and skills we need to navigate life change all the time as we age. A good therapist can act a a guide. I realise I'm preaching to the mostly converted.

 

We spend time and money on gym fees, hobbies, holidays, and, yes, affairs etc, yet not on our inner selves. Yet meaning and contentment is what everyone is ultimately searching for.

 

Therapy isn't an answer to anything but helps with the questioning. It helps us take back control of ourselves in the face of our changing situations, our influences from our past and our complexes/problems. It allows us to gain some autonomy and independence of spirit. So much that drives us is unconscious and to explore this is to allow us to create a satisfactory life.

 

No one can have a better relationship with someone else than one has with oneself. The person we are married to almost certainly operates at a similar emotional level to us, which is why this is a journey for two people, not just one.

 

I feel very sorry for your BH but his refusal to explore how he can grow from this suffering hampers his own and your joint future.

 

I don't think you are incompatible at all, but you need some support.

 

'The Middle Passage' by James Hollis is good . Also 'On this journey we call our life - living the questions'. And 'The Eden Project - the search for the magical other.' They are not about infidelity but deal with life's questions so may be less 'in your face' for your BH

Edited June 23, 2017 by Cymbeline

[Birdies]

Thank you...I'm glad it helps someone.

 

My H does not like to read those types of books. Maybe it all feels too triggering? I've read so many...that one included. harrybrown said for me to read "Not Just Friends" again. The last time I did that my H absolutely lost his mind. Said I was reading about "him" (xMM) and that I was thinking about my affair. It makes me want to crawl into a hole. He thinks my seeking help in reading a book is reliving the affair. He's like a person surrounded by dangling exposed electrical wires. One false move...

 

I'm not being unsympathetic...merely factual. I know that it wouldn't be like this if I hadn't had the affair. I do wish he was willing to dig in more with me. I really wish he wouldn't freak out when I even work to help myself.

 

So if your H won't do counseling or reading, and doesn't want YOU to - how are you two going to fix your issues? Do you have any system in place for discussing the A, triggers, how you each are doing, new issues that are cropping up, etc?

 

Or are you just rug-sweeping - you are tiptoeing around trying not to piss him off or make him think of the A, and he is hurting and unable to work through it and taking it out on you?

 

These problems will not magically go away. You need to work through them individually and together. It sounds epically difficult. If I'm being honest, that is one of the reasons my H and I chose not to R after the affair. We both recognized that working through the pre-affair problems, PLUS everything related to the affair, sounded unlikely to work and very very difficult.

[Mr Blunt]

Southern Sun

 

Does your husband have a male friend or family member that he will listen to? How about a mother or sister?

 

Your husband needs to be told that he needs to get strong enough to let someone help him.....Him thinking that he does not need any help is either his weakness or false pride.

 

 

PS...You are not the one to tell him these things!

[HereNorThere]

By your admission, you've read that it takes 2-5 years to for a betrayed spouse to heal. Anecdotally, every poster has told you that things never go back normal and you will never be held in the same regard as you were previously.

 

So, why less than a year out are you putting ANY pressure on him? Can you imagine how unfair it feels to have someone wreck your life, betray, humiliate, and completely disrespect you and then has the never to demand YOU go to therapy?

 

From his point of view, he's not the crazy one. Why would he need to go therapy? Why can't you respect this boundary for him? If says that seeing you read books about cheating is triggering, why would you ever leave another one out again?

 

True remorse is throwing yourself at the persons mercy for a while. True remorse is giving them back control and allowing them to make decisions for themselves. You are still trying to control the outcome. I'm sure every time you bring this stuff up it feels like you're saying "just get over it already."

 

If he's still passive aggressive in 2-5 years, have a talk with him. Until then, get that man the remote, a beer and leave him alone. We aren't like you. It doesn't help us "heal" if every other word out of your mouth sends images of you being used as some old man's sex toy. You need to step out of your own frame of reference and realize that he needs time and space. He keeps telling you but for some reason you refuse to listen.

[Imajerk17]

Well Southern, I do agree with the others. It is clear (and quite understandable) that your husband has a lot of anger and some of this may be passive-aggressive swipes at you.

 

But, he also may feel incredibly awkward around you. HOW is he supposed to laugh and joke with you as best friends. I mean, look at all this from his end. After you had your long-term passionate sexual relationship w MM, why did you go back to H? More importantly, why does *your husband* think you came back to him?

 

He might not be able to feel a powerful enough reason why you are back. He feel like he is your safe and logical choice that you settled for after your passion w MM blew up. Or he may feel that you are back only out of a sense of duty, for the kids, your good standing w your family, church, ect.

 

So, consequently he is experiencing the all-too-human response of shutting down around you to connection. He doesn't feel safe around you. I get that you are being transparent and accounting for how you spend your time and whom you communicate with. BUT, he has no idea of how you really feel towards him as a man.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Imajerk17

[usa1ah]

I do understand that I created the very situation I am now sad about.

 

I am still sad about it.

 

I've been trying to fix it and am still trying to fix it. Maybe I won't be able to, in the end. But I'm going to keep trying. No one is perfect and my behavior was one example of that.

 

My questioning...it comes from fear. Will I ever get him back fully? Will we ever be okay? Will this pain dissipate? Will I ever feel worthy enough? Will I always wonder what he's thinking? Will I always mourn that he can't look at me like he used to?

 

I don't think any betrayed or cheating spouse gets back what they had. It will never be what it was. Very few have a better, stronger marriage after a affair.

 

The relationship is broken and neither one of you know how to put it back together. A counselor can only guide if both want to be guided. Right now by what you are saying, your husband still has to much built up anger and resentment towards you. Nothing can be done until he gets over that.

[drifter777]

Short answer is yes - your cheating destroyed your marriage. Nothing between you two will ever be the same. He will never again see you through the same loving, trusting eyes as he did before. This is the unavoidable consequence of cheating.

 

It doesn't matter what you do or how hard you try to fix things. Unless & until he commits to building a new relationship it's all a waste of energy. You mentioned mourning - that's what he is doing. He's mourning the death of his marriage. Maybe he will get past the grief and be willing to start over. That's really all you can hope for and it is his call to make.

 

No - you don't get any "credit" for confessing. You don't gain anything but you likely avoid the penalty that his discovery would have imposed. You did nothing noble by confessing so don't spend any time wondering why there's no reward.

[Maraud3r]

After years of being an inactive lurker you managed to get me to sign up for I have a question. Are you being serious here?

 

This might sound harsh but I took the time to fly over your other threads. And I am genuinely questioning why your relationship still exists. You seem to have ZERO regard for your husband or his feelings whatsoever. Rather than being happy that after your affair, in which you debased yourself for another older man who literally had people call you "his toy" he decided to stick with you. You are upset that he isn't basically catering to you and going out of his way for you.

 

I might've missed some posts but the person you seem to primarily think about and be concerned with appears to be yourself. There appears to be nothing that hints at actual regret and remorse. Instead a lot of rationalizing, trying to find excuses and shifting the blame to both of you.

 

Once again I might be mistaken but given how little concern or care you seem to have for your husband, how you are upset and angry that he does not carry you on hands and act as a "Yes Man" to you why are you still with him?

[QuietDan]

You two are different people now with different life experiences than you use to be.

You view yourself differently. You react to things differently. Your body language and tone of voice is probably different. Wether you hold back or engage in conversations is subtle or overtly different. You project the inner person to the world in a lot of subtle ways.

Your husband is going to react to you and the relationship in a different way now.

Even though your current line of questions, concerns, words do not mention it.

Something about your thread....

Has me wondering a little bit.....

Your current thinking pattern has an all to familiar ring to it.

Your current wayward status?

Possible relapse?

Perhaps a new possible stud/player has entered into your life?

Edited June 24, 2017 by QuietDan

[QuietDan]

From what I have seen and heard, post D-Day, the second year is often extremely challenging and tough to get through. I suppose it is probably associated with the shock has worn off. The real work begins as the relationship is re-evaluated and tested. Things that might have been swept under the rug start to show back up. Issues from both before and from the affair merge and create new problems and challenges.

Fasten your seatbelts, the ride is about to get rough.

[gettingstronger]

Normal- and difficult-

Once the shock wore off and I started feeling better about me, I saw my husband as deeply flawed and he kind of grossed me out- I knew that was unfair to both, so we talked about it- I knew I had to hold up my end of reconciliation and give him the opportunity to be redeemed. It's a tough position for both- broke his heart that I thought so poorly of him as a person, hard for me to be so judgy and harsh.

[deadsoul]

 

No - you don't get any "credit" for confessing. You don't gain anything but you likely avoid the penalty that his discovery would have imposed. You did nothing noble by confessing so don't spend any time wondering why there's no reward.

 

funny you say this... because all through my thread people kept saying how "noble" and "courageous" it was to confess and how I stood a much better chance at R.

 

I don't feel any of those things.

 

I don't feel that SS is wondering why there's not a reward. I know there's not for me. If anything, it's harder that I confessed. There was no nobility in confessing. There was no nobility in having the affair in the first place. I don't want a pat on the back because I could've "gotten away with it" and I don't think SS does either. My confession destroyed the person I love and I have to live with that.

 

I have to be honest here... I don't think it matters much HOW the BS finds out. It's crap no matter how it's served up.

[DKT3]

funny you say this... because all through my thread people kept saying how "noble" and "courageous" it was to confess and how I stood a much better chance at R.

 

I don't feel any of those things.

 

I don't feel that SS is wondering why there's not a reward. I know there's not for me. If anything, it's harder that I confessed. There was no nobility in confessing. There was no nobility in having the affair in the first place. I don't want a pat on the back because I could've "gotten away with it" and I don't think SS does either. My confession destroyed the person I love and I have to live with that.

 

I have to be honest here... I don't think it matters much HOW the BS finds out. It's crap no matter how it's served up.

Nope, your affair did that. Your confession only made your husband have to accept who you really are or move on.

[Mrs. John Adams]

funny you say this... because all through my thread people kept saying how "noble" and "courageous" it was to confess and how I stood a much better chance at R.

 

I don't feel any of those things.

 

I don't feel that SS is wondering why there's not a reward. I know there's not for me. If anything, it's harder that I confessed. There was no nobility in confessing. There was no nobility in having the affair in the first place. I don't want a pat on the back because I could've "gotten away with it" and I don't think SS does either. My confession destroyed the person I love and I have to live with that.

 

I have to be honest here... I don't think it matters much HOW the BS finds out. It's crap no matter how it's served up.

 

The odds of successful reconciliation are higher if the wayward confesses rather than if the betrayed finds out through other means.. This is statiscally correct.

 

Yes it is a crap sandwich no matter how it is served up....the bottom line is still betrayal.

 

There are several things you can do to increase the odds of reconciliation....the biggest one is if your betrayed spouse still loves you and you are both willing to do everything to work toward it.

 

Some people are just not capable of putting in the work...betrayed as well as waywards.

[deadsoul]

Nope, your affair did that. Your confession only made your husband have to accept who you really are or move on.

 

Yes. You're right. The affair destroyed him. But my point is that the confession or how he found out doesn't matter one bit. There is no nobility or honor in confessing. And before you say I'm saying, don't confess, that's not what I'm saying at all. I own what I did and I take responsibility for what I did and for me, the right thing to do FOR ME to change my behaviors and be a better person was to confess. And I also confessed FOR HIM to know all of me and decide whether he could move forward or not.