Can MM/OW ever truly work?

[tinareed]

Get off of your Sanctimonious highhorse. If you are married you have no reason to be on this site. My work is NOT my life, I could care less about you married women, and "society in general", think about WHY your husband left YOU - perhaps it was because you did something as cheap and heinous as call the OW boss or because YOU were not the good wife? Get off this web site and stop pontificating.

[lust4life]

My husband didn't leave me, he did have an affair though, and I suppose that's exactly why this site is here. When dday hit he immediately ended all contact with the OW and she was left feeling like a sh8t. That is how almost all discovery days end.

 

You were already contemplating ruining this mans life, you are already crying over HIM choosing HIS WIFE over you, you are already angry that the awkward sex isn't enough to make him want to call you constantly. Do you think an affair is fun? The women my husband had an affair with was pretty torn apart when she realized he didn't have the feelings he professed to have. I helped her to understand that she should have been looking toward her own husband for that type of security because there is no security in seeing a married man. Her husband still divorced her though and my H never said one word to her after dday. It is a very horrible situation to get yourself into and nooones fault but your own.

 

Go ahead and keep fantasizing about ruining his life, even though he didn't ruin yours, you are choosing to ruin your own life. He the man you slept with and had awkward sex with is just looking for any pair of legs that will spread...One thing you can read online about OW is the MM saying she was there and available, not she was great and I went out of my way to persue her. Think about it.

[newbby]

lust4life,

whilst i agree with most of what you are saying. most mm do totally pursue the ow. completely and utterly determinedly pursue her. mine had to get me drunk as h3ll before he could do anything with me. this was after hanging around for ages and knocking on my door at any invented opportunity. i always told him i was busy etc, never gave him any reason to think i was interested. there was initially a little flirting, very low key, but once he started heavily pusuing me, i was very off with him.

its not a case of the ow being there and spreading her legs and saying come an get me, sorry!

[lust4life]

He doesn't get you drunk, you get yourself drunk. Aside from a daterape drug being dropped in a drink, you are responsible for doing this to yourself.

 

I didn't mean legs get spread immediately either. My H and many other MM that I have been reading posts by, glroyb and other sites when the MM isn't getting blasted say- I could tell she would sleep with me just by the way she looked at me. Meaning available and willing. They do not go to far out of the way, it has to be for convenience, if it isn't convenient it wouldn't happen.

 

One point I wanted to make is that many times the PW feel blasted and blamed, well, I have to let you know that the MM gets blasted and blamed just as much by the wives, we however; have a history with them and a stronger bond than with anyone else in the world so we work through it with them as a team so to speak and that naturally puts the OW in enemy catergory.

 

There are too many single women out here that really need to know how many times they are just being used. I know that being a bit naive led me to be blind to the affair for the 3 months it happened, and being naive led the OW to believe something more would happen for her. I am naive no more, and I would love to see many fewer naive OWs songle or otherwise.

 

Do you think some women have affairs for fear they could not make a marriage work?

 

Oh, and no matter how much a man persues it doesn't change his marital status. And most men wouldn't continue to persue if they were being legitimately turned down.

[newbby]

okay i worded that wrong. he had to wait till i got myself drunk before he could do anything with me. whats the difference? i still would not have gone there sober and that is partly what i am trying to say. i take responsibility for my part in the affair, but ow are not always easy.

i am not accusing him of taking advantage that is not what i am trying to say at all and if it sounded like that then i take it back. what i am trying to say is that the ow isnt so easy that she just jumps into the whole thing without thinking about it. when i was drunk i must have done!

so they go where they think they may have a chance, like most men.

i did not turn him down because he did not outright ask me. what i said was, when he began coming round i always made excuses like i am busy etc, he still persisted.

[tinareed]

Drunk, legs spread? Ok, first of all lustforlife you NEED a life. Don't you have anything better to do than post nonsensical drivvel on a site for hurting women with whom you have EVERYTHING in common? And Newwby, why are you giving credence to this idiot? I also don't believe anything she says, by the way. Nor would anyone else who wastes their time reading it.

Secondly, neither I nor my MM drink. So there, you sillly cow (lustforlife). I DO believe that he hasn't fooled around for most of his marriage and I KNOW his wife has more class than trash like yourself than to run to my boss.

But, why am I on this site in the first place?. Here it is you dumb broad:

I am 48 this September. I am flattered that a brilliant, good looking man who has a conscience and a heart wants me intellectually and yes, physically. I don't want him to leave his wife so stop whining about you poor married women - you, my dear, probably deserved being cheated on anyway but you can't admit you could ever do wrong - truth hurt? Yeah, lady it goes both ways. You sound like a nagging, shrew who probably hasn't seen a gym or a diet in decades. Most of you gals are. Ouch! Did I say that? Oh, sorry, think how you must feel. I could say a few things to you devastated married women who come on this site between therapy sessions demoralizing us for being with your husbands but then it doesn't matter because husbands NEVER leave their wives. Let's see. The divorce rate is a little over 50% in the US. Wonder how many of those breakups occured due to another woman? YOU think about it, you condescending thing, you.

I'm out of here - and I will enjoy my hurtful, immoral, naive leg-spreading affair. Women like you have convinced me to. Congratulations - you have just defeated your purpose.

[erika2610]

Originally posted by tinareed

Drunk, legs spread? Ok, first of all lustforlife you NEED a life. Don't you have anything better to do than post nonsensical drivvel on a site for hurting women with whom you have EVERYTHING in common? And Newwby, why are you giving credence to this idiot? I also don't believe anything she says, by the way. Nor would anyone else who wastes their time reading it.

Secondly, neither I nor my MM drink. So there, you sillly cow (lustforlife). I DO believe that he hasn't fooled around for most of his marriage and I KNOW his wife has more class than trash like yourself than to run to my boss.

But, why am I on this site in the first place?. Here it is you dumb broad:

I am 48 this September. I am flattered that a brilliant, good looking man who has a conscience and a heart wants me intellectually and yes, physically. I don't want him to leave his wife so stop whining about you poor married women - you, my dear, probably deserved being cheated on anyway but you can't admit you could ever do wrong - truth hurt? Yeah, lady it goes both ways. You sound like a nagging, shrew who probably hasn't seen a gym or a diet in decades. Most of you gals are. Ouch! Did I say that? Oh, sorry, think how you must feel. I could say a few things to you devastated married women who come on this site between therapy sessions demoralizing us for being with your husbands but then it doesn't matter because husbands NEVER leave their wives. Let's see. The divorce rate is a little over 50% in the US. Wonder how many of those breakups occured due to another woman? YOU think about it, you condescending thing, you.

I'm out of here - and I will enjoy my hurtful, immoral, naive leg-spreading affair. Women like you have convinced me to. Congratulations - you have just defeated your purpose.

 

Was this necessary? No.. it's rude. Everybody has a right to there own opinions. No need to put them down.

[tinareed]

read her post. I have mine.

[erika2610]

Originally posted by tinareed

read her post. I have mine.

 

She's just explaining her POV. And she was just saying that nobody can get you drunk, you get yourself drunk. You may not agree with her POV, but she can still post it. And she didn't personally attack you, why would you attack her?

[EnigmaXOXO]

why would you attack her?

 

Because she's in the throws of an addiction. And relationship addictions are just as nasty as any physiological or chemical addiction out there. Particularly in the denial stage. She knows how self-deprecating this is, but she can't help it. She needs her fix.

 

If you like reading, Tina, instead of Charles Kuralt articles that only fuel your fantasies, you may want to start doing a little research on "relationship addictions" and "love addictions." You can start here:

 

http://www.couns.uiuc.edu/Brochures/addict.htm

 

Good luck, Tina, and I sincerely hope you find the strength and courage to pull yourself up and out of this mess before you heap any more pain upon yourself. It will get a lot worse before it gets any better…

[lust4life]

My bio-

 

43 married close to 21 years. 5 kids. I was working when we met, he was in the Navy. I made more money than he did for years, I sold realestate work as a cafe manager and did the odd catering job. I am 5ft 5 in and 140 lbs. I could weigh less if I did play so much tennis and swim so often. After hubby got out of the military his salary kept rising. (he was in for 6 years) We continued having children, he wanted a bigger family than I did. In the past 6 years we have settled into what would be considered a tradition marriage sahm, working dad. It is a very comfortable life, however; not working took some getting used to for me.

My husband is 75 lbs over weight and has been for 14+ years now. I thought that his being overweight was another reason he would never cheat. There are so many reasons women bleive there spouse won't cheat, now I know there is no definate reason, not even pe or impotence (my h has neither of those but did in fact fake orgasm to end a sexual encounter with ow once). Yes, infidelity took me by surprise. Yes, I thought we has a good marriage and he actually assured me things were great while I was questioning our distance. 3 months is ont that long of a time in 18+ years. I thought I was being 'the good wife' by allowing his working late and having to do less and less around the house. Even though the affair was short lived, the build up to the affair took quite a while. Redflags are easier to spot after the fact!!

 

Anyhow, I do have time on my hands, I have wireless and am at the pool some part of the day just as now. I don't swim the entire time the kids are in there, sometimes 6 hours at a time! So, I do go to these sites from time to time, and this is a new site I stumbled on while looking up a rumor I heard about DrPhil. I don't know why this site came up, maybe his name is in a post somewhere, I stopped looking when I realized that this site was for communicating with others dealing with infidelity and affairs. Whether we are on OW or a BS or an MM we are all dealing with it. I think that some OW may benefit from hearing the lies an MM tells at home, and viceversa and that many MM may benefit realizing that both women aren't always naive and most often are more aware than he thinks. Anyhow, I did notice on one sight that OW tend to hold their real feelings in for fear of chasing him away. (((Tinareed is doing that now. A short affair, she is thinking of outsing him by ruining his career-but then shes says wouldn't really do it but wrote about thinking baout doing it, she has already cried over this and as far as I remember has only had one sexual encounter with him. Maybe my honest words hurt, hurt is not my intention, more awareness for all of us is, besides; a little self awareness for myself. My own self awareness not hers, obviously. We are on different sides of the spectrum, certainly too far at each end to communicate constructively.))))

 

I like the forum though and may stick around a while.

[joodee]

I appreciate your posts, you are indeed making us aware and less naive in what the MM tells us.

 

A comment here - lust4life, regarding this:

 

I did notice on one sight that OW tend to hold their real feelings in for fear of chasing him away.

 

I have that problem. Even though I want to move on and meet some single men and leave that mess behind for good, I have that problem still. Therapy has helped me express my feelings to him (which is why we hardly speak, cause I got real good at telling him what I thought), but I still have trouble cause I feel like crap after expressing myself and telling him where to go, and I worry, oh, I chased him away, forgetting in that moment that that would be the best thing. It's actually worked to a point, he rarely calls now for fear of my throwing the truth in his face.

 

I want to get over this speicific "problem." Can anyone else relate?

[lust4life]

I believe there are counselors that will actually be goal oriented in the sessions to teach self assertion techniques. Roleplaying really works to help with this. It is embarrassing at first, I have done this with my own H- yeah, he is too NICE a guy and had a hard time getting out of conversations, anyhow- I read some online and then actually did this with him. It works, it becomes a safety net of sorts. To simplify it, like young children feeling peer pressure to smoke or drink, you rehearse it to get yourself out of a situation even before it is one.

 

Counselors (Some) can do this. I did this for myself in my head. There was one married man that used to hit on me a lot- years and years ago while I was working in a RE office, we don't have HR we are all independent contractors. Anyhow, this guy used to love to talk and would always get the conversation going toward sex and how HIS wife wasn't into sex. I said to him, "okay, let me get this straight, you have been with the women 8+ years and she doesn't like sex with YOU. So, now you want to attempt to use your lame techniques on me? You can't turn your own wife on and YOU think I want to give you a try!" My first in,klings were that he was a pig, he was cute though and the attention was fun, to a point. I know that my sexual thoughts are different from many womens because of how I veiwed sex when I was single, so maybe I came to conclusion more easily. My point is that if you can repeat scenarios in your head , you will be more likely to play them out when the situation hits again.

 

Do you ever feel like everyone may know a joke and you don't? What does the little bouncing bunny? peace sign mean? Anyone??

[newbby]

i dont think its a problem with self assertion, so much as being scared of losing something. it is an addiction, and as much as it hurts it is hard to get away from.

ow become dependent on the mm for their happiness and i dont know why this happens, i cant work out why it happens and happens quickly at that.

i can logically and rationally work out why the situation is not good, but i cannot seem tofind the strength to cut off all communication completely.

i KNOW that nothing good can possibly come of it.

i am not having an affair with him any longer but there is a friendship of sorts.

why i cannot give him up completely i do not know.

i dont know what i'm hoping for.

i guess i am hoping that he will see me as a real person, as a whole person.

[lust4life]

newwby-

 

I don't want to make you feel badly by giving you sympathy, but your post is sad! You are a whole person, you deserve a whole relationship. It is good that the affair is ending and fading, I don't know how long it was an affair but do realize all endings hurt, so I am sad for you to feel that also, BUT really would love to read you put a personals ad up on three or four sites and are dating so much that you are having a blast!!

 

I guess that for most of the affair relationship the feelings stay in the NEWness of it. Like the infatuation stage remains longer because the relationship doesn't progress like it normally would so the feelings are always a bit on edge longer. You know those, does he really like/love me thoughts, or will he call me today, will I see him today/this week, will he want to have sex, will he talk to me about US, those thoughts go away in a normal/real relationship because the answers are a given over time. Maybe, that's part of how HE becomes consuming,??

[izzybelle]

there is definitely something to be said for the infatuation and "newness" phase of these relationships seeming to last longer than it normally does. it may be the uncertainty for many. for me it was never whether or not i'd hear from him on a given day, it was always how many times i would hear from him. in our short-lived, about 6 mo., affair, i'm not sure there was a day that went by that i didn't hear from him several times, except for the few days when he was out of the country, and even then he emailed a few times and called once. i find myself in the "newness" of a relationship with an SG and it brings some of these feelings back, not for MM, but just remembering the whole, i can't wait to talk to him, is he thinking about me feelings.

 

for me, it was almost like as soon as i told MM about my concerns, etc. about him being married that he turned up the heat. he spent hours trying to convince me that his marriage was really over, and that he wanted to spend his life with me not his W. at the time i saw it as "wow, he's really into me, he means what he said" i now see that it was more of the chase for him, and i spend a long time pi$$ed at him and myself, for getting "caught" and caught up. i have no doubt that he really did love me, but the lame thing he said to me when it ended really summed it all up. that he "wasn't as emotionally detached" from his family as he thought. i.e. a bunch of the stuff he said was all just crap.

 

all that said, it took me almost a year, and several messed up relationships with SGs to get him out of my system. it's finally like the "drug" is almost gone. and as stupid as this may sound, for me, i had one last little bit of closure last week. i called him, luckily got his voice mail at work (i really didn't want to talk to him directly) and left him a message apologizing for my part in making his marriage more of a mess than it was. when i hung up the phone, i felt like a huge weight had been lifted. it was like it was the final thing i needed to say to him in order to completely forgive myself for being so stupid. part of me wanted to call his W and say the same thing but i have no desire to open any wounds that may hopefully be healing.

 

like any failed relationship that we don't want to end, it takes time and a lot of strength. and there are still times when i'd love to know what all he said to his W about me. i've always thought that it would be an interesting conversation ... but there is no need now, it's their life and their problem, and i'm out, and thankful that i am.

[newbby]

lust4life,

it was an affair for about a year, it has been a friendship for the past 6 months but for most of that time he was still trying to continue the affair. in the past week or so there has been quite a dramatic change in a way, that it is much more like a friendship and almost as though the affair never happened, it is strange though because although there is that history its almost as though we hardly know each other now and it is kind of polite.

it is good, although i might be a little sad, i am glad that the affair is no longer continuing, just because it is a hopeless situation, full of guilt and complicated emotions.

i am glad that we have worked it through to the point that we can be friends and put all the other stuff behind us.

i know that i am not ready for a committed relationship and i wasnt before the affair started either. it is probably why i found it so addictive because it met some of my emotional needs without the commitment factor coming into play. this was certainly not conscious in that way and i didnt seek out to have an affair, but when it happened it was both ideal and awful.

if i could throw myself into the dating scene and set out to find a sg i am sure it would be easier in the way that i would have the companionship that i wish for, however i know myself well enough that i have much to work on before looking for a whole relationship.

i think the affair helped me in the way that it distracted me whilst i worked through alot of difficult things, but i still have alot more work to do and i am aware of this.

the friendship with him is like a new friendship now and i cannot see that it could ever return to any sort of relationship. this feels both good and bad. of course it is for the best and ultimately will be better.

[lust4life]

izzybelle-

 

I got an apology from the women my husband had an affiar with. It wasn't a sincere one when she was actually trying to contact him after months of no contact and I intercepted her email and responded, how could she be sincerely sorry to ME when she was professing love in her email and asking for him to contact her? Totally different than what you were thinking of doing, but your post made me remember her apology.

 

You know, when I read that wives want to contact the OW to vent at her, I always suggest that they write a letter

instead and then decide when they are calmer if they want to send it. You could do the same thing, write her an apology, read it over a few times, then decide at some later date to either throw it out or send it. It can be healing to some people to receive an apology, for others it is just salt in the wound, there is no real way to knwo which it would be for her.

[izzybelle]

lust4life -

 

i have written her many letters and destroyed them. i find it therapeutic just to get thoughts down on "paper" but would never send them. i don't know what her reaction would be, although i suspect she would doubt my sincerity, so i don't see much point in following through. when she found out about me, her first comment to me was a very simple "f--- you!" her second email to me was cluing me into the fact that i was not his first affair and would probably not be his last. so she knows what he's capable of, and over time, as my rose colored glasses came off, i began to see the picture too. and they seem to be very good at making each other miserable, so for some reason that works for them, but it's not a type of life that i aspire to.

 

my apology to him, really was as much for closure for myself as anything else. when we ended he had said at one point that he wanted to know if/when i'd met someone else and moved on with my life. he knows i've been seeing someone, but in my voice message to him, i mentioned none of that. it no longer matters if he knows what's going on in my personal life. i have no doubt that through work, out paths will cross again at some point in the future, but we work in different cities so it's not like it's an every day occurrance. for a long time i hoped he would have the ball$ to leave his "loveless" marriage. and if it is that bad, i hope for both of their sakes that they call it quits and move on with their lives, but it's very empowering to no longer feel that desire to have him as a part of mine. i think we could go back to being friends, but even that has become less important.

 

the whole last year has been a very enlightening experience, one that in my 40+ years that i feel i have learned more from than ever before. in addition to the situ i was involved in, i've watched the marriages of two friends be destroyed by infidelity, one on the H's part and the other on the W's part, and she's still with her MM who also left his marriage for her. the SG i'm seeing's marriage was also destroyed by his Ws infidelity, and we had a bit of a convo about that last night. because MM had spent so much time convincing me that his marriage was over, i sometimes get a little freaked about SGs ex. his D is final, and he says he has no desire to have her back in his life, but that trust is hard to come by. so in the past year, i feel like i've seen so much hurt, pain, and damage done by unfaithful spouses ... i know the 40s seem to be the time in life that it's most common, it's just so, so sad. and to know that i was a part of the mess for one couple has been a difficult concept to work through. but i think i've finally made it to the other side of the pain, a place i know i will not go back to.

 

izzy

[lust4life]

I guess on either side once a dday hits, we are naive no more! I did feel so much more intellegent than others that had not expereinced this trauma. Before dday, I really felt like I was living an ideal life, during his affair I felt so ill at ease and frequently would ask him what was going on, he told me I expected to much from life and everything was great! I really started to doubt myself. After dday, it took a while to learn that HE really did manipulate me and now I knew it would never happen again, because I am naive no longer.

I would say that if his wife realizes he has had numerous affairs that she is allowing the pain in her own life, and if it wasn't YOU it would have been someone else.

 

To build trust, I think you may need to forgive yourself...if you are still really beating yourself up, you may not be able to allow trust in a relationship.

 

When you decide to get married be sure to have an open conversation about your views on monogamy, just saying the vows doesn't cut it. I don't even think 'we' hear the words we are saying during the ceremony! Too nervous and overwhelmed to think through the vows logically.

[izzybelle]

you're right on the money! i was still spending way too much emotional energy beating myself up, and it was most definitely getting in the way of my being able to even think about moving on with my life. plus, like you, i realized how naive i'd been, and working through that and knowing that although the experience will be a part of me forever, i couldn't let it dictate how i lived my life, has taken longer to come to terms with than i had ever dreamed.

 

too many tears, too many sleepless nights, too much anger. i have no doubt that you can relate.

 

my trust with SG comes partially from the past, but also from hearing from one of his good friends, that he's not completely over her, adds to that as well. our relationship started off great and was absolutely wonderful until the day his final D papers arrived in the mail. for the next 2 weeks after that there was a noticeable change in him until it eventually reached the point where he tried to end things. needless to say, i didn't let him "out" that easily and things are even better now than before, but i know when his ex gets remarried, i'm in for another round.

 

i do think that until one has been through this, on whichever side you're on, you never can begin to realize the pain and far reaching impact it has on your life. in some ways, as bad as this will sound, i'm glad. not that i part in causing someone else pain, but it's opened my eyes to many things.

 

i do know that there are times when the OW/MM situ can work. but even with the one W i know who's still with her MM, i have to wonder if it was worth the price they all paid?

[lust4life]

I would rather be in the KNOW then someone that isn't there. I do still horribly, possibly, look at naive men and women and feel sorry for them. I do not feel sorry for myself any longer.

 

 

You know there is a great way to end his next round of the funk- have him beat his wife to the next marriage.

 

I am still a marriage sap! I want everyone to be so immerse in their own spouses that there is no room for infidelity!

 

I would think that no matter what, he, your boyfriend, will always have some feelings for his X. His marriage is over but it doesn't end that it was a part of his life. Even with little to no feelings a divorce effects people, they feel like a failure even if they weren't the cause of it. It is great that you didn't let him end the relationship while he was in the "depression" or blues from the divorce, you have already survived a test to this relationship!~