Sex on the side

[SammySammy]

Have I said it was? You're the one who appears to be arguing that I don't have a basis to offer mine.

 

 

I usually see eye to eye with you man, but you're coming out of left field on this one.

 

Ummm ....

 

I'm just joking with you about your opinion.

 

I do think that we are individually responsible for our decisions and the consequences of those decisions. In this case, both the husband and the wife.

 

It can just as easily be argued that what she's doing is unethical and immoral. Equally easy to argue that he's okay to stray in that situation. Whose morality will hold sway? Yours? Mine? Our version of "God"?

 

His?

[Michelle ma Belle]

Good post.

 

However, in the end, YOU decided it was wrong. YOU decided you didn't want to deal with the mess that came from straying.

 

That's my point.

 

Ultimately, he has to determine what's right or wrong for him and deal with the results of his decision.

 

You're right. It is ultimately HIS decision and HIS conscious he has to deal with, however, if he didn't feel like it was 'wrong' then why not just tell his wife about the paid sex he's getting on the side and let the chips fall where they may?

 

Withholding something like an affair from a partner you vowed to be faithful to until death do they part IS inherently 'wrong' otherwise why marry at all?

 

Feeling justified isn't the same as feeling like it's the right thing to do.

 

I think the OP knows on some level he's doing something 'wrong' or else why bother asking the question in the first place?

[Michelle ma Belle]

Did you ever find out why sex was being withheld?

 

Yes, and I've talked about it before in previous posts.

 

To start with, we weren't sexually compatible from the start but I was too young and naive to understand how important that would be long term.

 

It wasn't long before I realized he a porn addiction that took over his life and our marriage.

 

Eventually, the older he got, he started having ED issues which frustrated him yet he refused to seek help which compounded issues.

 

After 20 years together, I was done.

[SammySammy]

You're right. It is ultimately HIS decision and HIS conscious he has to deal with, however, if he didn't feel like it was 'wrong' then why not just tell his wife about the paid sex he's getting on the side and let the chips fall where they may?

 

Withholding something like an affair from a partner you vowed to be faithful to until death do they part IS inherently 'wrong' otherwise why marry at all?

 

Feeling justified isn't the same as feeling like it's the right thing to do.

 

I think the OP knows on some level he's doing something 'wrong' or else why bother asking the question in the first place?

 

Again, I agree. You're on point today.

 

He knows. He needs to make a decision and not try to get strangers to justify him. Don't try to pass the buck.

[arnanderson]

Yes, and I've talked about it before in previous posts.

 

To start with, we weren't sexually compatible from the start but I was too young and naive to understand how important that would be long term.

 

It wasn't long before I realized he a porn addiction that took over his life and our marriage.

 

Eventually, the older he got, he started having ED issues which frustrated him yet he refused to seek help which compounded issues.

 

After 20 years together, I was done.

 

Well, my wife has come up with different reasons why she doesn't want sex as much, I would work on anything that she would name, and then it would be something different, she finally admitted that the reasons she had, were just excuses, but didnt really know why she wasnt motivated to have sex, she vowed to do better, and would periodically do so, but would never maintain it, and over the last year and a half, it has flatlined....I love having sex. We would go it everyday sometimes twice a day before we were married and early in our marriage. We are good friends, if the sex was there we would be almost perfect.

[arnanderson]

Again, I agree. You're on point today.

 

He knows. He needs to make a decision and not try to get strangers to justify him. Don't try to pass the buck.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Not looking for anyone to make a decision, just looking to hear everyone's opinion.

[elaine567]

I have talked to her several times about it, this has gone on for at least 3 years. We have been to counseling twice. There has never been a real reason stated as to why she does not want sex.

 

Of course there is a reason, she just doesn't want to share it with you.

So what actually happened 3-4 years or even longer ago.

[SammySammy]

Thanks for the feedback. Not looking for anyone to make a decision, just looking to hear everyone's opinion.

 

No problem. Just don't think our opinions are more important than yours. In your life. In your situation.

 

Just noticed your user name. Cool.

 

And ... I might have a solution for you. Hit me in PM when you get those privileges.

[arnanderson]

Of course there is a reason, she just doesn't want to share it with you.

So what actually happened 3-4 years or even longer ago.

 

Not sure what happened. I wish I knew or had some idea why or what happened.

[elaine567]

Not sure what happened. I wish I knew or had some idea why or what happened.

How old is she and why did you go to counselling? Was it purely the sex issue?

[arnanderson]

How old is she and why did you go to counselling? Was it purely the sex issue?

 

34 and I am 37. We went to counselling because of the sex issue...of course the frustration caused other issues that were addressed also.

[LivingWaterPlease]

Well, my wife has come up with different reasons why she doesn't want sex as much, I would work on anything that she would name, and then it would be something different, she finally admitted that the reasons she had, were just excuses, but didnt really know why she wasnt motivated to have sex, she vowed to do better, and would periodically do so, but would never maintain it, and over the last year and a half, it has flatlined....I love having sex. We would go it everyday sometimes twice a day before we were married and early in our marriage. We are good friends, if the sex was there we would be almost perfect.

 

You are good friends but seems to me you have some deep communication issues.

 

The above bolded highlights that she was misleading you, seemingly unintentionally. But still, to me it seems dishonest and pretty harsh for a man to be directed "here, there, and everywhere" trying to do whatever he can to please his wife so they can be intimate together (one of the main benefits of marriage), work his behind off trying to please her and then find out the lack of all those things he did to try to solve the problem weren't even the reason she didn't want to have sex with him after all. That she just plain, "doesn't know why."

 

Not saying she treated you this way on purpose, but, how very frustrating that must have been!

 

So now you're misleading her!

 

Both of you need to learn how to be honest and transparent with each other. In fact, if you could learn to communicate clearly with one another your emotional relationship would likely benefit which would really help your sex life together.

 

For most people, when they become emotionally intimate, physical intimacy is a natural result.

 

You mention how much you had sex before you were married. At that time her hormones were probably raging, along with yours. This is one of the problems of having sex too early in a relationship. The appeal can become dependent on raging hormones, or if later in life when hormones aren't raging, dependent on the novelty and uniqueness of a new relationship. Whereas if a couple becomes emotionally connected through advancing communication and physical touch progressively, both emotional and physical intimacy can be far richer in the relationship both in the short and the long term. There is actually a book written about the order for the progression of physical expression by a couple to take place in order to ensure optimal intimacy. If the physical proceeds too fast in the wrong order it can actually thwart later emotional intimacy which then reacts to thwart the physical!

 

Now you have kids, etc., and pregnancy and having a newborn often messes with a woman's hormones so that could have gotten you into some bad habits, too.

 

It seems to me your problem is solvable. But, you may need direction from a MC as to how to learn to communicate in order to become emotionally intimate. Seems at this point you have a relationship that's just a little more than platonic, but is less than intimate.

 

Go for it, OP! I think you guys can work through this and come out on top! No pun intended!

Edited June 15, 2017 by LivingWaterPlease

[central]

This is a common issue that very, very rarely has a satisfactory solution. I expect that you can try or do everything ever recommended for this problem, and it won't change.

 

 

So, can you live with it, or would you be better off leaving? You're young enough to have a long, full, sexual life with someone who loves you and wants you. This woman almost surely is not that woman. Even if you were are negotiate an open marriage, do you want to continue paying for sex without real intimacy for the rest of your life? I wouldn't, but then I wouldn't use your current solution either.

[Poppy47]

Do her the courtesy of divorcing and finding somebody who is more suited to your needs. Being unfaithful will hurt everybody eventually including your children.

 

She shouldn't be cheated on because her needs are different. Some people need a lot of sex and others don't. There is not necessarily an underlying resentment on her part at all.

 

Your early days were not an indication of what it might be like later. It was just the "honeymoon" stage.

 

I feel you are in a very unhappy frame of mind. It is not the way to spend the rest of your life.

 

Poppy.

[GorillaTheater]

Ummm ....

 

I'm just joking with you about your opinion.

 

 

 

No problem. I may be feeling a little too intense for LS today.

[LivingWaterPlease]

No problem. I may be feeling a little too intense for LS today.

 

Lol, happens. With all of us.

[Southern Sun]

Do her the courtesy of divorcing and finding somebody who is more suited to your needs. Being unfaithful will hurt everybody eventually including your children.

 

She shouldn't be cheated on because her needs are different. Some people need a lot of sex and others don't. There is not necessarily an underlying resentment on her part at all.

 

Your early days were not an indication of what it might be like later. It was just the "honeymoon" stage.

 

I feel you are in a very unhappy frame of mind. It is not the way to spend the rest of your life.

 

Poppy.

 

I agree this is possible. She may not be upset with you, except for the fact that you are treating her like she is defective. Maybe she feels perfectly fine. Maybe this is normal for her. Maybe the pressure for sex is causing her to pull back. Who knows.

 

I can't tell how long you've been married, but you do seem to expect a level of sexual activity consistent with your early days. You said it has been three years...if you've had a couple of kids within that timeframe, it's normal for your mojo to change a little during those years.

 

She may have lead you on a wild goose chase unintentionally. You are obviously "high drive", and assume that she is the one with the problem. So she goes through various efforts, trying to figure out what her issues are. But discovers at the end of it that she doesn't really feel like she has "issues." She just doesn't want it as much as you do.

 

The only other possibility is that she knows exactly what her problem is and she doesn't feel she can tell you. It is something she expects will destroy your ego, hurt you, or anger you.

 

No marriage will survive happily without compromise and sacrifice.

 

What if you start with the assumption that nothing is wrong with either of you. You want a lot of sex. She doesn't want a lot of sex. If both of you still want a relationship with the other, you will have to compromise and sacrifice.

 

Her once a month preference won't make you happy. Your 4 or more times a week is a bit much for her. Can you find somewhere in the middle that you can both deal with? I am assuming you married her for reasons other than sex, right?

 

Start with every weekend and see if you can build to a couple of times a week. Women who regularly have good sex, and can anticipate that it will typically be good, usually want more of it. But you must be honest with yourself and each other about your relationship. Because if something is holding her back from wanting to be with you in the bedroom, this won't go any further.

[whichwayisup]

How many years have you been married and how old are your kids?

 

She told you why and you brushed them off as excuses. Maybe she is depressed, or doesn't feel good about herself and body? Has she put on weight? Other than your sex life, your marriage is good but it seems communication is an issue too.

 

Are you truly happy? Meaning if she had sex with you more than once a month (say once every week or even once every 2 weeks) would that be enough for you or would you want more and more as time goes on?

 

You probably don't want to hear this, but it just could be she doesn't like or enjoy sex anymore once having the kids and her body has changed. She loves you but isn't attracted to you. It's not your fault, sometimes it just happens.

 

Has she gone to the Dr to make sure this isn't hormone related and is totally healthy? Even fibroids and ovarian cysts can cause one not to enjoy sex so that could be an issue too...

 

Be honest, communicate with her on how it makes you feel (don't make it JUST about sex, make it about feeling close to her too on an emotional level) that she isn't having much intimacy with you.

[WilyWill]

Unethical and immoral according to who?

 

According to himself, via the promise of fidelity he made during his wedding vows. If he wants to change the terms of any contract he's agreed to, he needs to inform the other party.

 

OP, you should be honest and forthright with your wife. Let her decide if an open marriage is something acceptable. If it is not, the ethical thing to do is divorce so that you can each pursue your happiness separately.

[Starswillshine]

I was high drive. Then multiple kids happened, life got hectic. We were both busy. We got into that boring life cycle. I was confused as to why is didn't want to have sex anymore and what did that mean. It bothered me, probably to the point it caused the issue to be worse. We would have sex but it wasn't enjoyable any longer. It wasn't anything he wasn't doing/was doing in the bedroom that was the problem... he was always amazing in bed. So what was it? What did it mean?

 

Then we would go on vacation together. And there we were having sex like little rabbits. And even better, I desired it, I WANTED it, I was constantly turned on. I didn't want to leave the room.

 

So what was it? Well, the distractions, the mundane every day crap, the exhaustion, etc on both our parts. Probably a lot like an affair when all your attention is focused strictly on each other... that is how it was for us on vacation. But no one can love their lives on vacation. Is there a way you guys can put away time for each other? And don't have it be all about sex because that will put too much pressure on the situation.

 

Anyway, just a thought from one used to be very high drive but found myself low drive after many years and kids to a husband of a now low drive spouse

[Mumbles]

I also find it interesting that everybody is concerned about the wife. No one - including his wife - is concerned about him.

 

Things like this happen when you withhold sex from a spouse. There are consequences for that behavior also. She should be perfectly aware of the possibilities when she made that decision.

 

Maybe both are making poor decisions. And will face the resulting consequences.

 

This, 100% this.

 

It always seems to be missed in these conversations that its not just a decision made by the husband. The wife has also thought about and assumed responsibility for her actions - implicitly.

[QuietDan]

Thanks for the reply...I have given that energy to doing all of the romantic and special things a wife would want. She would not be open to an open marriage. I wish I knew what the issue was, then there would be no question.

 

Yah, well, I can relate to this thread. Too much. So once a month you say... If she isn't too booked or busy or in a bad mood from being too tired... Eventually it turns into every other month... Less the holliday seasons... Too busy and stressfull during October, November, and December...

I suspect she is interested in sex just before her period??? The only day of the month her hormones rev up her sex drive enough to be interested... I am guessing.... Somewhere along the timeline of your relationship with her... She quit maintaining her respect for you. Sure, you probably quite acting like a knight in shining armour a bit. Then sex became a weapon for power and control... Her desire for you faded away... So, here you are cheating on your wife... Maybe she found someone she respected more than you a few years ago and found her desire with him... If not... Maybe a player will discover her and turn her on and into the sex kitten she never let you know...

This is a fine mess you and your wife are in...

This is about the worse way to fix your marraige there is...this close to the worse way to destroy and end your marraige there is...

What a mess...

The bill for this is misery, pain, regret, grief, guilt...

[dichotomy]

I can make a wild guess that if you divorce - she will find her sex drive again if she dates or gets a new BF. Other wise she will be alone.

 

Sometimes these things having nothing to do with you - its can be the other spouses issue why they lack interest in sex.

 

One of the nicer things that came out of 9 months of intense marriage counseling with a woman who was also a sex therapist - was she really worked on us as a couple before getting too much in to sex. She also had a few one on ones with my wife. Near the very end of our 9 months she basically said "You got a really great husband, one many women would love to have - you need to get back your drive. Please some see me alone from now on"

 

It was a huge relief to me to stop doing the "love me dances" I had been doing for a while - thinking I was doing something wrong. My self esteme was restored thanks to that amazing female therapist.

 

I finally just arrived at a few reasons why I think my wife dropped of on the sex - and it does have nothing to do with me.

 

Sex is just not about what you want - but loving and taking care of your partners needs as best you can. You wife has given up on parts of her commitments to love and cherish. I hope she finds other ways to show and give love to make up for it.

Edited June 16, 2017 by dichotomy

[eye of the storm]

I was married for 18+ years. I won't say I withheld sex but the last half or so of our marriage I did avoid it as much as I could without it triggering another fight.

 

 

I was angry. I felt trapped. I didn't trust my H with my emotions or thoughts. I couldn't open up and be honest and vulnerable with him. I couldn't tell him what was going on in my head without it being used as a weapon against me in our next argument. When you put all that together, it does not make for sexy feelings.

 

 

Sex became just another chore that I had to complete to maintain the house. Right up there with cleaning the floors.

 

 

I am not telling you what your wife is feeling. Just telling you what was going on in mine. I will tell you that to this day, my xH thinks I just don't like sex. He is still totally unaware what was going on internally with me.

 

 

Now I tell people to communicate. Always communicate. I should have communicated with him. We would have probably divorced much sooner. He did not (and still does not) appreciate any perceived criticism. But I would have been out of a toxic relationship much sooner.

 

 

You need to talk to your wife. With a mediator on hand. You need to tell her that what is going on is not acceptable to you. That if it doesn't change you will go outside of your marriage. She may/may not decide to be open and discuss her feelings. If she doesn't, then you know. If its medical, but mentally she is fine with it, then you know. If she feels this is just stuff and nonsense, then you know.

 

 

Im going to be honest. Just from reading your posts, neither of you seem engaged with the marriage. It doesn't matter how often you had sex in the beginning. People change. You, and she, need to deal with what is in front of you. You both need to decide if the marriage is worth it. As it is right now. Are you both willing to engage and work to rebuild. It isn't easy. But if the marriage is valuable to you both then you should be willing to invest some sweat equity into it. However, if either one of you just goes thru the motions, there is nothing to save but a piece of paper.

 

 

Sometimes you let your house go. And rot develops. It happens because neither of you were tending things all along. You now have a choice, rip it out, replace the boards, inspect for more rot, take care of all the issues you find and end up with a better house....or throw up your hands and either live in a rotten house that you both pretend is fine or tear it down and move on.

 

 

On a side note, look up sexual slavery and trafficking in persons. You are supporting an industry that enslaves people for profit.

[Midwestmissy]

I'm sorry about this situation. But its important to remember that prostitutes aren't paid for sex - sex can be had for free at any bar, any night - prostitutes get paid because they go away after the act. It doesn't sound like you're looking for romance.

 

I realize this isn't all on you at all, but since you posted, you care, and I'll address you. Maybe her issue is medical, hormonal, depression. She's young. Please exhaust all the possibilities before you leave or cheat. But the most important thing you can do right now is talk to her openly and tell her that this is not working for you and that you want the marriage to work. Delete the adjectives, just give her the facts. You owe that to the marriage. Tell her the truth about wanting to stray.

 

My husband cheated, not because of sex, because of other things that he was not willing to tell me. Had he only had the hard conversation with me prior to his affair, we would have avoided the awful conversations we still have 2.5 years later. He regrets it everyday.

 

Good luck, you deserve the marriage you want, you won't get it by cheating.