Open Relationships - Inherently Unfair?

[DJOkawari]

Hi all!

 

So I'm male and in an open relationship with a female. Here is a dynamic I've picked up on, which I feel short-changed by, and maybe someone else can explain a better way for me to think about it:

 

Why would I want to be in a relationship with a person, when their best version is reserved for other people?

 

Short version:

 

My gf is travelling abroad and is giving the best version of herself to lots of guys she meets. She's having amazing experiences, and generally being more adventurous and attractive than she is in her normal life. I've never traveled with her, and was unable to go this time (and given her schedule, it is unlikely we will for the forsee-able future), but we do speak a lot over videochat. Our chats are basically her telling me about her experiences and me supporting her. She really values this support. I don't see why I'd settle for the busy, less adventurous, less exciting, and less attractive version of her AND put in all of the effort I am - given that she's living out my dreams with her with other guys.

 

The longer version clarifies these thoughts with a narrative.

 

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Full version of events:

 

Her and I, we've been through a lot. Lots of good times and lots of rougher times. In our normal lives we're both highly ambitious, busy, people. This fall she will be joining a Phd program which will take up the majority of her life (the remainder of which will largely be going towards her job). So, before this extremely restrictive period of her life beings, she's decided to go backpacking. She invited me, but I'm in an abnormally busy period, achieving my goals, and I cannot go.

 

While backpacking she's having an incredible time and meeting lots of people, and as you'd expect having a lot of sex. We video chat quite a bit (almost every day) and I'm privy to her adventures and thoughts and I've realized something:

 

For all of the effort I've put into this relationship, I'm never going to have the experiences those guys are having with her. No exploring abandoned islands on motorbike and having sex on the beach, no casual sex in a tree-house, etc. But each day I'm there to support her emotionally and provide her with a "steady base" (her words) to go out and be confident and adventurous in the world. Of course, when times are hard she calls me crying and when times are good I don't see much of her - a side-effect of travelling I suppose.

 

Her and I have never traveled together and I'd love to do those things with her - it just hasn't happened yet. When I pointed that out to her, she said, "Well I would have preferred to do them with you. You should just come! I invited you anyway." - of course I can't (and she knows that...not sure why she acts like it's my fault).

 

The version of her I get, is a serious academic. Sleeps at 10pm every night, doesn't go out too hard on the weekends. Often times we just do work together because she's so busy. No adventures, nothing adventurous. She was telling me about talking the night away with a guy she met, that's never happened for us!

 

I feel bad for saying this but these other guys are getting a sexier version of her as well. They get her, in make up, tanned, in a bikini on the beach - I get her with glasses, her hair up, no make up, and stressed about deadlines.

 

I have no doubts that she appreciates me, and loves me (things we reassure each other about a lot), but at the end of the day why would I put effort into this relationship? It seems the guys who aren't putting in any effort are getting a better version of her.

 

When I point this out to her, she tells me that we have "something special", she's never "loved anyone more", and it "doesn't compare". That sounds nice but, I'm far more concerned with actions and experiences.

 

I may go visit her in the final country of her adventure, and she also promises me that we'll do adventurous stuff - just like she's doing with the other guys. I'm not sure why, but that sounds lame to me. I mean...don't I deserve better? But what could be better? In this scenario, she's giving her best to all of us.

 

Anyway, I just don't see the point of this relationship when there are random people (who she's adding on facebook and making plans to have come visit her post-travelling) who without any effort can get only the best version of her. They don't have to do anything for her, just show up and they get the best version of her. Why would I put up with all of the bad things, all of the effort that a relationship requires, to be in that situation? I'd much rather be one of the other guys - they're living out my fantasies with her.

 

Thanks for reading all of this. I'd be happy to elaborate or explain any of it better.

Edited June 14, 2017 by DJOkawari

[kendahke]

read only the short version, and not much of that...

 

Is she offering you the exact same latitude and support? Is she cool with you going out and having sex with random girls while she's off on adventure?

[Gemma1]

You should NEVER have gotten into an open relationship.

 

In an open relationship, you could have these same problems even if she wasn't travelling. If she were at home and studying like normal, but then occasionally went on a date/hooked up with a new guy, it would be the same situation. They are getting sex with her, and none of the other hard "boring" stuff. They aren't having to put in any real work.

 

That is how open relationships are. Why did you get into this? Whose idea was it? Do you hook up with other people too? Do they not get the fun side of you, while your girlfriend gets the normal day-to-day you?

 

And it's not like she's trying to exclude you from this. You were invited. She'd rather do it with you. It's not her fault you can't go. And if this relationship is supposed to be serious, why can't there be future adventures where you do get more of this side of her? And honestly you're not even happy with the fact that you will get this side of her in the future at the end of her trip, because other guys will have also had that side of her. You REALLY are not cut out for an open relationship.

 

And by the way, you are getting something from her that none of those other guys are getting. You get her commitment, you are her priority, you are the person she trusts and wants to be with. If this is a serious relationship (marriage-minded) then you are the person she will possibly one day build a life and future with. AND you can have the fun side of her too, because there will be time for that stuff in the future.

 

It sounds like you don't really value her. If you think the best thing that she can give you is some fun vacation sex, then you can't possibly really value her. The way you think about relationships is just messed up, for someone in an open relationship. For a monogamous person, it would be normal. You should stick to that.

[Gemma1]

I should add -

 

I'm in an open marriage. I could easily have the same complaints you have. The women my H dates get only good stuff. They don't have to wash his clothes, clean his messes, deal with parenting logistics, or put in any of the work of a long term relationship. They just get to go on fun dates, sometimes travel together, and have no deep issues to contend with.

 

But they also don't get the part of him that I get. The part of him that is fully and completely committed to me and my happiness. They don't get to wake up with him (nearly) every day, share in his hopes and plans for the future, they don't get to raise a child with him, or have his full confidance. There's so much that's reserved for me. That's what the hard work is for. And everything that they get to do with him (the fun dates, travelling, etc) I can do with him also. And I don't feel like anything is diminished just because he also sometimes does it with other people. If you don't share this mindset, open relationships are not for you.

[DJOkawari]

read only the short version, and not much of that...

 

Is she offering you the exact same latitude and support? Is she cool with you going out and having sex with random girls while she's off on adventure?

 

I have the same latitude for sure. I do have sex with other women - not right now particularly because I am so busy (finishing my thesis, while working). Unlike an attractive girl, I can't just show up places and expect people to offer me free things/good times + sex. I have to put in more effort, which I don't have time for right now.

 

 

You should NEVER have gotten into an open relationship.

[/Quote]

 

I'm young and it's an experiment. This was always a possible conclusion.

 

Why did you get into this? Whose idea was it? Do you hook up with other people too? Do they not get the fun side of you, while your girlfriend gets the normal day-to-day you?

 

It was both of our ideas, honestly. I wanted to give that a shot and so did she and we talked about it on our first date. I'm not hooking up with other people right now, because I'm really busy. As I wrote above, it takes more time and effort on my end to meet girls. She largely just has to show up places for people to ask for her attention.

 

I haven't been travelling alone, so in this city the girls that I sleep with get the same version of me that she does. I don't do anything extra for them. In fact, I'd probably spend less money on them than I would with her (obviously she doesn't pay for much on dates with any guy).

 

If I were to go travelling, I suppose, yeah, that would be the case. The major distinction being that in my normal life, I live a far less restrictive life-style than her in general. I'm not sleeping at 10 pm each night normally, I work as a model - I put effort into my appearance each day.

 

 

 

And it's not like she's trying to exclude you from this. You were invited. She'd rather do it with you. It's not her fault you can't go. And if this relationship is supposed to be serious, why can't there be future adventures where you do get more of this side of her?

 

Well, if I don't go and meet up with next next month, she will have no free summers or winters for the next 6 years (phd program + job). That's part of her incentive to travel for a few months now anyway.

 

 

And honestly you're not even happy with the fact that you will get this side of her in the future at the end of her trip, because other guys will have also had that side of her. You REALLY are not cut out for an open relationship.

 

If I wasn't there, she'd do it with someone else. If I do go there, we're doing something she's already done with someone else. It doesn't seem special or significant. Maybe I am not cut out for an open relationship, because I don't think I can find it all that special to do something romantic that is a carbon copy of something romantic she's done a week ago.

 

And by the way, you are getting something from her that none of those other guys are getting. You get her commitment, you are her priority, you are the person she trusts and wants to be with. If this is a serious relationship (marriage-minded) then you are the person she will possibly one day build a life and future with. AND you can have the fun side of her too, because there will be time for that stuff in the future.

 

Sorry, what commitment? What do you mean by that? Yeah, I agree I am her priority in a lot of ways. Not at this particular moment, as I mentioned she's out doing fun stuff. I get calls when she has time or when she needs emotional support. I am definitely not a priority right now, but I can see your point. She's committing to 6 years of not travelling so forgive me, if I am not placated by the idea that I'll see it "eventually".

 

It sounds like you don't really value her. If you think the best thing that she can give you is some fun vacation sex, then you can't possibly really value her. The way you think about relationships is just messed up, for someone in an open relationship. For a monogamous person, it would be normal. You should stick to that.

 

I value plenty of things about her beyond fun vacation sex and adventures. I've been with her this whole time without those things. I am innately an adventurous person and these types of things are particularly important to me. They feel more "alive" to me than other moments.

 

Your premise is "I don't really value her", meaning there is more than the experiences she's giving to other guys right now to our relationship - and those are the things to appreciate especially (more than the things she gives to everyone). I've love for you to point these things out to me because from my perspective anything she would give me, she gives to other person (The time, conversations, help, etc.).

 

An example answer I can think of is: last night, right before she slept with a guy she's been sleeping with for a few nights, she happened to read some of my messages on messenger and she texted me "I love you" (without actually responding to my messages). Is that sweet? I'm not sure, but either way I'd rather be the guy she spent all day with (and proceeded to have sex with) than the guy receiving the "I love you" message thousands of miles away.

[DJOkawari]

I should add -

 

I'm in an open marriage. I could easily have the same complaints you have. The women my H dates get only good stuff. They don't have to wash his clothes, clean his messes, deal with parenting logistics, or put in any of the work of a long term relationship. They just get to go on fun dates, sometimes travel together, and have no deep issues to contend with.

 

But they also don't get the part of him that I get. The part of him that is fully and completely committed to me and my happiness.

 

I just don't get this. What is this? She is completely committed to my happiness, but of course she's a nice human-being who extends this to her friends, her co-workers, her family, etc. In fact, if the people she was meeting travelling like this were so inclined to ask for her support, she'd give it to them too. Also, I don't really ask for much support. Any example is how I'm posting this question here, rather than being emotional and venting to her. Largely, I take care of myself. I guess give me examples of you being committed to your husbands happiness, so I can make an analogy for my situation, because I really cannot think of anything.

 

They don't get to wake up with him (nearly) every day, share in his hopes and plans for the future, they don't get to raise a child with him, or have his full confidance.

 

We don't live together or plan to have children any time soon. I'm not even sure what "full confidence" means. What negative impact would "half-confidence" have on your life? Is that what he's going around and giving to others?

 

There's so much that's reserved for me. That's what the hard work is for. And everything that they get to do with him (the fun dates, travelling, etc) I can do with him also. And I don't feel like anything is diminished just because he also sometimes does it with other people. If you don't share this mindset, open relationships are not for you.

 

Yeah, in my situation I really can't do those fun things. She's just a different person while she's here. It makes sense, the rest of the PHD students aren't out partying until dawn either - but certainly I won't be able to explore any abandoned islands on motorbike with her any time soon (6+ years). I think if I were in a situation like you're suggesting, where I did feel like something special was reserved for me, rather than the reverse, I might feel differently about this.

Edited June 14, 2017 by DJOkawari

[DJOkawari]

In an open relationship, you could have these same problems even if she wasn't travelling. If she were at home and studying like normal, but then occasionally went on a date/hooked up with a new guy, it would be the same situation. They are getting sex with her, and none of the other hard "boring" stuff. They aren't having to put in any real work.

 

Sorry, I didn't respond to this. This does happen at home. I also go on dates and sleep with other girls. The distinction is that these dates aren't grand adventures that I can only dream of doing with her. She's literally living out dreams of mine with other guys, right now. I won't have a chance to do this with her for 6+ years, and let's be honest we'll be completely different people then.

[Discjockey80]

Just end it. I could go deeper but don't have time.

[DJOkawari]

Just end it. I could go deeper but don't have time.

 

It'd be nice if you gave me about 5 sentences of rationale. You don't have to mince words, I can handle it.

[central]

I think you're experiencing envy. You'd like to share these experiences with her, but circumstances preclude that option. And, given how long it will be before you can, you are each trying to live the experiences available to you in the present. Who knows what the future will bring, or if you'll be together (since you're not married or even engaged, I'm assuming)?

 

If you were both single, the same things would be happening right now, only you wouldn't be in the know. If you met later, the past (which is the present at the moment) wouldn't matter, really. You'd have to come up with experiences to share - they may not be unique experiences, but they would be unique to you as a couple.

 

I'm in an open relationship, but our circumstances are very different. We're married, spend very little time apart, and have had many experiences together. We balance things out, because it would be so easy for her to have as many lovers as she wanted, while it would be very difficult for me to do the same. So, she limits herself out of consideration - and love - for me. We try not to put many limits or restrictions on each other, and sometimes it does get uncomfortable, but we deal with it. Anyway, it works because we are each other's priority, and keep it that way.

 

As I said, your situation is different, and she is living her life to the fullest given that you can't be there. Hopefully, you'll get to do the same when you have the time. If you love each other, then support her in this adventure, and hope you get your chance later on.

[authenticity]

These are the reasons why open relationships DO NOT work. It's just not healthy, we're monogamous creatures.

 

I don't agree with Gemma1 that you don't value her. This is probably the reason why you are in this predicament to begin with. You respected her enough to allow her to be able to travel and meet/form relationships with other people and not feel "tied down". But sadly, it didn't work.

 

I agree you should end it, heal and possibly see if you can re-kindle things when she gets back. Because I guarantee that this will be weighing on you forever unless you do some soul searching or therapy. Your actions, words and emotions toward her will all come from a place of insecurity and jealousy. I bet she can already sense it. And it's likely driving her even further away.

 

Please go get some therapy. Preferably some from a woman therapist so you can start to build a healthy relationship with a female again.

[Discjockey80]

It'd be nice if you gave me about 5 sentences of rationale. You don't have to mince words, I can handle it.

 

I totally know how you feel and I realize it's tough articulate. The ability to enjoy youthful passionate experiences with the person you marry, love etc. is a very important bonding mechanism. As humans and particularly as men we are bonded to our partners through the widest variety of sexual experiences, sexual intensity and beyond that emotional variety and experience. Problem is you have to make a deliberate effort to do it.

 

You'll find as you marry and age that you may and will have more opportunities for this stuff....but the chances go down exponentially. In some cases you never will. I am validated in my masculinity and my sense of self confidence with a partner by how she shares all aspects of her persona with me and the experiences we have together. Hard to explain further in the time I have.

[authenticity]

I totally know how you feel and I realize it's tough articulate. The ability to enjoy youthful passionate experiences with the person you marry, love etc. is a very important bonding mechanism. As humans and particularly as men we are bonded to our partners through the widest variety of sexual experiences, sexual intensity and beyond that emotional variety and experience. Problem is you have to make a deliberate effort to do it.

 

You'll find as you marry and age that you may and will have more opportunities for this stuff....but the chances go down exponentially. In some cases you never will. I am validated in my masculinity and my sense of self confidence with a partner by how she shares all aspects of her persona with me and the experiences we have together. Hard to explain further in the time I have.

 

Beautiful. Well written!

[DJOkawari]

If you were both single, the same things would be happening right now, only you wouldn't be in the know. If you met later, the past (which is the present at the moment) wouldn't matter, really. You'd have to come up with experiences to share - they may not be unique experiences, but they would be unique to you as a couple.

 

Yeah, I agree with this logic in a sense. I think Discjockey80 puts it best:

 

I totally know how you feel and I realize it's tough articulate. The ability to enjoy youthful passionate experiences with the person you marry, love etc. is a very important bonding mechanism. As humans and particularly as men we are bonded to our partners through the widest variety of sexual experiences, sexual intensity and beyond that emotional variety and experience. Problem is you have to make a deliberate effort to do it.

 

You'll find as you marry and age that you may and will have more opportunities for this stuff....but the chances go down exponentially. In some cases you never will. I am validated in my masculinity and my sense of self confidence with a partner by how she shares all aspects of her persona with me and the experiences we have together. Hard to explain further in the time I have.

 

 

I really do feel this way.

 

 

As I said, your situation is different, and she is living her life to the fullest given that you can't be there. Hopefully, you'll get to do the same when you have the time. If you love each other, then support her in this adventure, and hope you get your chance later on.

 

I think I'll be able to travel, I'm not concerned with that really. I just find this relationship far less special and meaningful the way it is now. Yes, I could imagine doing these things with any hot girl and prior to meeting my gf that's how I had imagined these fantasies - but they shifted to her now. I think that "special-ness" is important for me in a relationship. Maybe it is just me, but all of these things seem more real and meaningful than conversations and emotional support. Her "I love you"'s are really falling flat right now and I don't see how to restore that feeling from my end.

[DJOkawari]

I totally know how you feel and I realize it's tough articulate. The ability to enjoy youthful passionate experiences with the person you marry, love etc. is a very important bonding mechanism. As humans and particularly as men we are bonded to our partners through the widest variety of sexual experiences, sexual intensity and beyond that emotional variety and experience. Problem is you have to make a deliberate effort to do it.

 

You'll find as you marry and age that you may and will have more opportunities for this stuff....but the chances go down exponentially. In some cases you never will. I am validated in my masculinity and my sense of self confidence with a partner by how she shares all aspects of her persona with me and the experiences we have together. Hard to explain further in the time I have.

 

YES! You've really understood me. It was tough to articulate. Thanks!!

[DJOkawari]

I agree you should end it, heal and possibly see if you can re-kindle things when she gets back. Because I guarantee that this will be weighing on you forever unless you do some soul searching or therapy. Your actions, words and emotions toward her will all come from a place of insecurity and jealousy. I bet she can already sense it. And it's likely driving her even further away.

 

Please go get some therapy. Preferably some from a woman therapist so you can start to build a healthy relationship with a female again.

 

I don't think I'm messed up enough to need therapy. I have emotional swings but I'm pretty under control generally speaking. I think I can have healthy relationships with women. Unless you mean the therapy is to see my gf in the same light I used to see her and reconnect with her when she's back?

[central]

It sounds like the inability to share these experiences will be the death of your relationship with her. She's experiencing these things with others, so the two of you don't get to bond and share. That is a real downside to your situation.

[kgcolonel]

Quick Question DJO

 

How would she respond to a conversation along the lines that state that you're not happy in the current situation. You're viewing the R as being de-valued in that she's living out fantasies that you'd dreamed about for the two of you. Would there be any recovery if you were to discuss monogamy with her? My suspicion is that the cat's out of the bag now and there'll be no going back on her part. ( I don't want to assume based on a couple of lines of text however).

 

Also, you mentioned that the open R was discussed when you first met...that would suggest that the R may be based on the open concept.

 

The equation from what you've written, seems skewed in the sense that you're not feeling the R is even at a level much less growing under this arrangement.

 

Might be a good idea to both begin having the talk with her, knowing full well that she may well value her "adventures" more than the "safe" BF back home and begin looking for someone on a similar schedule and with a bit more commitment that can and will better fulfill your needs.

 

Also, you mention that she relies on your for emotional support when she needs it, who do you have (other than the awesome folks her on LS) to provide you with what you provide her? Just a really self aware question you might ponder.

Edited June 14, 2017 by kgcolonel

[Gemma1]

There are a lot of issues at play here, it's really hard to get a feel for how you really view this relationship and what you want out of it.

 

I'm young and it's an experiment. This was always a possible conclusion.

Fair enough, I think it's a good experiment to try.

 

I haven't been travelling alone, so in this city the girls that I sleep with get the same version of me that she does.

You say this, but I highly doubt it's true. In your first post, you stated that you and your girlfriend had been through a lot of hard times. But these girls you're going on dates with and sleeping with don't see any of that. They are still just getting the best version of you - the initial front that everyone puts on when they are first meeting/dating someone new.

 

Well, if I don't go and meet up with next next month, she will have no free summers or winters for the next 6 years (phd program + job). That's part of her incentive to travel for a few months now anyway.

So my question to this is - where do you see this relationship going and what do you hope to get out of it? Is this just a good "for now" relationship or are you working towards something more with this girl? If you're not, then does it matter that shes off having fun with other people? You don't have time to do it anyway, and she currently does. It's not like by dating her you are missing out on opportunities. You still have all the opportunities you had before her. And if you are looking for something serious with her in the future (marriage, etc.) then you will have plenty of time later for these types of adventures with her.

 

If I wasn't there, she'd do it with someone else. If I do go there, we're doing something she's already done with someone else. It doesn't seem special or significant. Maybe I am not cut out for an open relationship, because I don't think I can find it all that special to do something romantic that is a carbon copy of something romantic she's done a week ago.

It will be significant, because it will be with YOU. You are a different person, you are the person she loves and is committed to (and commitment doesn't just mean sex). Whatever experience you have with her when you visit will definitely not just be a carbon copy of whatever she did with other people before you got there.

 

Last summer my H invited the girl he was dating out to where he was staying for the summer with friends. I visited the next week and we did some of the same things that he and the other girl had done while she was visiting. It didn't bother me because I know any experience he has with me is going to be very different from whatever experience he had with her, even if the setting is the same. Is it possible that your confidence is a little low currently?

 

Sorry, what commitment? What do you mean by that?

I guess I was making some assumptions about the nature of your relationship. Based on your post, it seemed like you guys were pretty close and committed to one another. When I say committed, I just mean that she places your happiness and your relationship over other guys' happiness and her relationship with them. That is the most important aspect of an open relationship. We don't measure our commitment by sexual fidelity, it's about something much deeper than that.

 

I am innately an adventurous person and these types of things are particularly important to me. They feel more "alive" to me than other moments.

Right, I understand that you really want to go on the type of adventure she's going on now. But you can't go, and that's not her fault. Let me ask you something - do you think you would be feeling this way if you were not in an open relationship and she was doing all this adventuring but NOT sleeping with any other guys? I'm just trying to get to the bottom of your feelings here, because sometimes it seems like you are just jealous of her and sometimes it seems like you are jealous of the other guys.

 

And then there's the fact that even if you might be able to go for part of her trip, you are suggesting that you don't want to go because you think your experiences with her will be devalued by her previous experiences with other people. I'm not sure what the solution here is. People in successful open relationships don't feel this way much. If you were cut out for open relationships, you might feel jealous of the amazing time she's having and wish you could be there, but you would also feel genuinely happy for her and happy that she's getting to have these experiences, and that would overcome the small amount of jealousy you feel over not being there yourself.

 

Your premise is "I don't really value her", meaning there is more than the experiences she's giving to other guys right now to our relationship - and those are the things to appreciate especially (more than the things she gives to everyone). I've love for you to point these things out to me because from my perspective anything she would give me, she gives to other person (The time, conversations, help, etc.).

The reason I say you don't value her is because you actually said "what is the point of this relationship when there are random people...who without any effort can get only the best version of her." My point is that there is SO much more to a relationship than just these peak moments. Were you happy with this relationship before she went on this backpacking trip? Like I said before, it's not like she is choosing to have you be her emotional tampon while she saves the fun stuff for other guys. She wanted you to come and be the person she had the adventure with, but you couldn't come. It's just a crappy situation for you because you are missing out on something you really want to do. It doesn't have to be a huge issue that makes you think "what is the point of my relationship?" If your relationship had any meaning before she went on this trip, it should still have meaning when she returns.

 

Do you really think that she gives everyone else the same amount of time and consideration that she gives you on a regular basis? If you and one of these random guys had a problem, do you think she would respond the same way?

 

An example answer I can think of is: last night, right before she slept with a guy she's been sleeping with for a few nights, she happened to read some of my messages on messenger and she texted me "I love you" (without actually responding to my messages). Is that sweet? I'm not sure, but either way I'd rather be the guy she spent all day with (and proceeded to have sex with) than the guy receiving the "I love you" message thousands of miles away.

Yeah, I'm sure you would rather be that guy and that's fine. You can be sad that you couldn't be there, I would be too. But should that be making you wonder what the point of your relationship is? No, not if your relationship had any point to it before this trip.

 

We don't live together or plan to have children any time soon. I'm not even sure what "full confidence" means. What negative impact would "half-confidence" have on your life? Is that what he's going around and giving to others?

When I say I have his full confidence, I mean that he can tell me anything and rely on me for anything I can possibly help him with. He knows I'm always on his side (publicly, anyway, not saying we don't have disagreements).

 

The way you have described your relationship in these last few posts almost makes it seem like you guys are not really that close and that you don't really need her for anything. So let me ask you instead of just assuming - what do you get out of this relationship? What do you like about it? How has any of that changed since this backpacking trip?

 

It seems like you are facing a dilemma and you need to figure out where you see this relationship going. Is this a relationship worth working for? If it is, and you want to keep it open, you're going to have to recognize the value the relationship adds to your life and realize that this value is more important than missing out on a few peak experiences. You're going to have to realize that you can have peak experiences with her later, that 6 years is not long in the grand scheme of things, and that future experiences won't be diminished by this one backpacking trip. (Also, you can get away for occasional brief adventures during grad school - you may have more opportunities than you think).

 

Or you need to accept that this relationship really isn't of high value to you. In which case, who cares what she is doing on this trip? It doesn't affect you and doesn't detract from your life. Keep enjoying the relationship for what it is and stop worrying about what is happening on her trip.

[DJOkawari]

It sounds like the inability to share these experiences will be the death of your relationship with her. She's experiencing these things with others, so the two of you don't get to bond and share. That is a real downside to your situation.

 

Yeah, I don't want it to be though. Have you heard of the Ultimatum Game? It's an economic experiment where a first person is given $100. They then are to divide it between them and a second person. The second person can either accept or decline. If they decline, no one gets any money.

 

If you are the second the person, the one without control on how to divide the $$, your winning strategy is to always accept. If the first person offer you $1 and decides to keep $99, you should still accept - that's $1 more than you had before! The game is intuitive for me, but I find it hard to applying to my relationship: I need to stop contextualizing the events that occur and just view them from my perspective. She says "I love you" as the guy she plans to sleep with checks in to their room for the night -> She said "I love you". That seems to be how all of the advice for not breaking up seems to be construed here. All of the "it's different with YOU" type messages.

 

 

Quick Question DJO

 

How would she respond to a conversation along the lines that state that you're not happy in the current situation. You're viewing the R as being de-valued in that she's living out fantasies that you'd dreamed about for the two of you. Would there be any recovery if you were to discuss monogamy with her? My suspicion is that the cat's out of the bag now and there'll be no going back on her part. ( I don't want to assume based on a couple of lines of text however).

 

No, she'd probably agree for monogamy. The cat's out of the bag from my end: why would I agree to monogamy now? Lol.

 

 

Also, you mentioned that the open R was discussed when you first met...that would suggest that the R may be based on the open concept.

 

The equation from what you've written, seems skewed in the sense that you're not feeling the R is even at a level much less growing under this arrangement.

 

Might be a good idea to both begin having the talk with her, knowing full well that she may well value her "adventures" more than the "safe" BF back home and begin looking for someone on a similar schedule and with a bit more commitment that can and will better fulfill your needs.

 

Yeah, it was based off the open idea from the start and yeah, I agree I don't think it is growing. I mean, I'm thinking about it a lot and working on it a lot so I think there has been personal growth, but the relationship doesn't seem to be growing...that's for sure.

 

Nah she values me more than her experiences is what she says, but obviously I don't know how that would play out long term. I think she would resent me...and anyway, philosophically, I want her to be free and enjoy life. I just have certain needs: which are that I want to feel appreciated and I want to feel like I'm part of something amazing...and her words are not enough to convince me of that right now. Maybe that's my issue with the distance between us right now.

 

 

 

Also, you mention that she relies on your for emotional support when she needs it, who do you have (other than the awesome folks her on LS) to provide you with what you provide her? Just a really self aware question you might ponder.

 

Aside from her, it's really just the people on LS. I have friends but they couldn't contribute meaningfully to this discussion. My family...yeah let's not go there.

 

My gf is emotionally supportive a lot of the time, but this isn't a situation she can really do it for. I've expressed some of this stuff to her and she took it very personally and the conversation since then has been a lot about her.

Edited June 15, 2017 by DJOkawari

[kgcolonel]

Yeah, I don't want it to be though. Have you heard of the Ultimatum Game? It's an economic experiment where a first person is given $100. They then are to divide it between them and a second person. A second person can either accept or decline. If they decline, no one gets any money.

 

If you are the second the person, the one without control on how to divide the $$, your winning strategy is to always accept. If the first person offer you $1 and decides to keep $99, you should still accept - that's $1 more than you had before! The game is intuitive for me, but I find it hard to applying to my relationship: I need to stop contextualizing the events that occur and just view them from my perspective. She says "I love you" as the guy she plans to sleep with checks in to their room for the night -> She said "I love you". That seems to be how all of the advice for not breaking up seems to be construed here. All of the "it's different with YOU" type messages.

 

 

 

 

No, she'd probably agree for monogamy. The cat's out of the bag from my end: why would I agree to monogamy now? Lol.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, it was based off the open idea from the start and yeah, I agree I don't think it is growing for sure. I mean, I'm thinking about it a lot and working on it a lot so I think there has been personal growth, but the relationship doesn't seem to be growing...that's for sure.

 

Nah she values me more is what she says, but obviously I don't know how that would play out long term. I think she would resent me...and anyway, philosophically, I want her to be free and enjoy life.

 

My needs are that I want to feel appreciated, I want to feel like I'm part of something amazing...and her words are not enough right now. Maybe that's my issue with the distance between us right now.

 

 

 

 

 

Aside from her, it's really just the people on LS. I have friends but they couldn't contribute meaningfully to this discussion. My family...yeah let's not go there.

 

My gf is emotionally supportive a lot of the time, but this isn't a situation she can really do it for. I've expressed some of this stuff to her and she took it very personally and the conversation since then has been a lot about her.

 

 

Thank you for answering my question....from the outside, I would say that this R is not truly working for you. I know this is hard to hear but deep inside, I believe you already know this and thus writing on a forum such as LS. That said, you also state that while it appears she is getting much from this arrangement, when you asked for emotional support, she "took it personal". Does that mean she took it to heart or that she got defensive? My bet is the later....this would suggest that she is interested in herself before you which is indicative of an unbalanced relationship. I see this as you're the "safe guy" for when her life has to return to normal, mundane, you'll be there to maintain a steady supply of support after she's sowed the wild oats so to speak. I personally would view a balanced relationship as one where both make sacrifices for each other...i.e. let's travel short periods, closer so that we can experience things together, not sorry you can't come but I'm going anyway and I'm going to find someone to fill the "void" since you can't come with me...to me this is a "to hell with you, here's to me" approach. Then to get defensive, if that's a correct description, is callous at best. Just my perspective from the outside based on what you've written.

[GunslingerRoland]

Open relationships are never going to be 100% equal for a man as opposed to a woman. But it sounds like you are "getting yours" so in general I think you are doing better than most men do in them.

 

It sounds like it has a lot more to do about this vacation. Is this a one time thing, or will she always be going on vacations without you? if it's a one time thing, I don't blame you for feeling like you are missing out, I'd be jealous if my wife got to go on a trip like that without me, even without the sex part.

 

But if in the future you'll be able to go on trips like this with her, and she'll be just as wild with you as she is with these strange guys, then I don't think it is that big of a deal.

 

You seem to have really disregarded what Gemma said, but I think she showed a lot of wisdom and experience in her post about how the actual relationship is different than the flings in an open relationship.

 

You don't seem to be looking at any of the pros of being in a relationship, and so if it really isn't worth being with the day to day version of her, maybe this isn't the right relationship for you.

[knabe]

This is easy. You can't handle it. I couldn't either. It's not like she's deceiving you. You went into this eyes open, and it's not for you.

[DJOkawari]

Gemma1, I want to thank you for all of the advice. I know what I've responded with sounds argumentative, but I have learned so much about open relationships what you've written. I'm truly grateful.

 

You say this, but I highly doubt it's true. In your first post, you stated that you and your girlfriend had been through a lot of hard times. But these girls you're going on dates with and sleeping with don't see any of that. They are still just getting the best version of you - the initial front that everyone puts on when they are first meeting/dating someone new.

 

I get what you mean in that sense. The "initial front", but when my gf and I go out here, I still commit to having a good time the same way I would on a random date. You might be arguing about the minute excitement of uncertainty with a new person, but it's a silly comparison to her actually being more adventurous, attractive, and care-free. She's literally doing things she has not done with me ever - not in any magnitude, it's a side of her I've never seen. It's not, oh, she's a little bit more peppy than usual.

 

I get that you're firmly "on her side" but the comparison seems to silly to me.

 

So my question to this is - where do you see this relationship going and what do you hope to get out of it? Is this just a good "for now" relationship or are you working towards something more with this girl? If you're not, then does it matter that shes off having fun with other people? You don't have time to do it anyway, and she currently does. It's not like by dating her you are missing out on opportunities. You still have all the opportunities you had before her. And if you are looking for something serious with her in the future (marriage, etc.) then you will have plenty of time later for these types of adventures with her.

 

I don't know. I didn't think I'd have to figure that out right now. It doesn't seem like we're working towards anything from my end right now.

 

By the way, the argument you've presented justifies accepting any type of behavior that has a time limit on it: if the relationship is just "for now" why does this <behavior> matter? If it is long term, obviously this <behavior> is a small part of the long run.

 

 

It will be significant, because it will be with YOU. You are a different person, you are the person she loves and is committed to (and commitment doesn't just mean sex). Whatever experience you have with her when you visit will definitely not just be a carbon copy of whatever she did with other people before you got there.

 

Last summer my H invited the girl he was dating out to where he was staying for the summer with friends. I visited the next week and we did some of the same things that he and the other girl had done while she was visiting. It didn't bother me because I know any experience he has with me is going to be very different from whatever experience he had with her, even if the setting is the same. Is it possible that your confidence is a little low currently?

 

Obviously, being married and having that type of commitment + years behind your relationship makes things so different. I think the comparison doesn't hold water at all. For where our relationship is now, I can't really think of a single commitment she's made to me aside from time that she has not given to these other guys.

 

Moving past that, it will be special because it is me? It depends on how you characterize it, right? There's "the time I explored an island and ****ed on the beach" and there's: "the time I explored an island and ****ed on the beach with <x>" and "the time I explored an island and ****ed on the beach with <y>". Also how, after exploring a few islands it isn't quite the same adventure to explore another. The first time obviously holds the most suspense. There are so many layers as to why the repeated experiences is worse. This analogy holds for most other experiences.

 

Finally, the idea for me, that I have to be "perfect" because she's already made a great memory with someone doing the same thing.

 

 

 

I guess I was making some assumptions about the nature of your relationship. Based on your post, it seemed like you guys were pretty close and committed to one another. When I say committed, I just mean that she places your happiness and your relationship over other guys' happiness and her relationship with them. That is the most important aspect of an open relationship.

 

My happiness over other guys'? I would guess so. I don't think she's putting anyone's happiness in front of mine.

 

 

We don't measure our commitment by sexual fidelity, it's about something much deeper than that.

 

You keep lecturing about sex like that's the only thing I've said. I've talked about seeing different sides of her personality, having deep and meaningful experiences with her, having adventures with her, and finally, yeah, having extroverted sex.

 

You think relationships aren't at all measured by those things? How well you know the person? What kinds of experiences you have with them? What the narrative the two of you build together is? To me, I'm talking about these deeper things.

 

 

Right, I understand that you really want to go on the type of adventure she's going on now. But you can't go, and that's not her fault. Let me ask you something - do you think you would be feeling this way if you were not in an open relationship and she was doing all this adventuring but NOT sleeping with any other guys? I'm just trying to get to the bottom of your feelings here, because sometimes it seems like you are just jealous of her and sometimes it seems like you are jealous of the other guys.

 

Yeah, it's a complex emotion - I think I feel all of those things. I don't know why you keep insinuating it's about a penis entering a vagina and all the words I've typed are some poetic way of expressing that. I get it, I'm a guy, who is struggling to see my gf with other guys. Believe it or not, I have layers to my emotions and I'd prefer not to be characterized as a stereotype.

 

I also get it, you're a woman in an open relationship, you're empowered and you want to support my gf, great. Shoot her a message.

 

 

And then there's the fact that even if you might be able to go for part of her trip, you are suggesting that you don't want to go because you think your experiences with her will be devalued by her previous experiences with other people. I'm not sure what the solution here is. People in successful open relationships don't feel this way much. If you were cut out for open relationships, you might feel jealous of the amazing time she's having and wish you could be there, but you would also feel genuinely happy for her and happy that she's getting to have these experiences, and that would overcome the small amount of jealousy you feel over not being there yourself.

 

I do think all of those things. I'm happy she's getting to experience all of these things. I'm sad from my perspective. I wouldn't be here if I wasn't happy for her, I'd have just broken up with her.

 

The experiences are diminished, there's really no arguing that. Here's the example I used above, maybe it'll make sense to you how I perceive you advice:

 

Have you heard of the Ultimatum Game? It's an economic experiment where a first person is given $100. They then are to divide it between them and a second person. The second person can either accept or decline. If they decline, no one gets any money.

 

If you are the second the person, the one without control on how to divide the $$, your winning strategy is to always accept. If the first person offer you $1 and decides to keep $99, you should still accept - that's $1 more than you had before! The game is intuitive for me, but I find it hard to applying to my relationship: I need to stop contextualizing the events that occur and just view them from my perspective. She says "I love you" when she has a moment while, the guy she plans to sleep with checks in to their room for the night -> She said "I love you".

 

Your advice is to transition from caring about the context, like "oh, this is the 10th time she's doing it and isn't nearly as excited about it as me" and just ignore her perspective and think "this is my first time doing this, I'm so excited!"

 

That seems a selfish way of being and it seems like a ****ty relationship to be in. It's emasculating to think of all the experiences you had with her that you really value, she views them as one of a set.

 

 

The reason I say you don't value her is because you actually said "what is the point of this relationship when there are random people...who without any effort can get only the best version of her." My point is that there is SO much more to a relationship than just these peak moments. Were you happy with this relationship before she went on this backpacking trip?

 

There is so much more to this necklace than gems on it. Appreciate the string that ties them all together!! Thanks for that advice. I was happy with the relationship before. I can say that for sure.

 

 

Like I said before, it's not like she is choosing to have you be her emotional tampon while she saves the fun stuff for other guys. She wanted you to come and be the person she had the adventure with, but you couldn't come. It's just a crappy situation for you because you are missing out on something you really want to do. It doesn't have to be a huge issue that makes you think "what is the point of my relationship?" If your relationship had any meaning before she went on this trip, it should still have meaning when she returns.

 

At this point, you're justifying my position as an emotional tampon. Do you really have this biased of a perspective in regards to viewing this through my gf's eyes. Yeah, I think any woman would be happy if her SO was an emotional tampon whenever she needed it.

 

"If your relationship had any meaning before she went on this trip, it should still have meaning when she returns."

 

Again, you're using arguments that work to justify absolutely anything. If it was fine before, it should be fine after. Okay thanks. Why do you think that nothing that occurs while she's travelling has an impact on our relationship? Do you think the trip impacts her on every level as a person? Do you think it impacts me on a huge number of levels as a person? Do you think it impacts the dynamic between the two of us? I can't see how you can answer "no" to any of these 3 questions.

 

 

 

Do you really think that she gives everyone else the same amount of time and consideration that she gives you on a regular basis? If you and one of these random guys had a problem, do you think she would respond the same way?

 

Not time in terms of how long I've known her. But in the moment, yeah, time for sure. She'd try her best to help both of us. She's not going to hold back on helping one of those random guys if he needs something. I don't get what you're implying.

 

 

Yeah, I'm sure you would rather be that guy and that's fine. You can be sad that you couldn't be there, I would be too. But should that be making you wonder what the point of your relationship is? No, not if your relationship had any point to it before this trip.

 

I've said this so many times, but I thought I was building something special with her. It does not seem special any more. So, yes, what is the point of working on something mundane?

 

When I say I have his full confidence, I mean that he can tell me anything and rely on me for anything I can possibly help him with. He knows I'm always on his side (publicly, anyway, not saying we don't have disagreements).

 

Yeah, I need to consider this carefully. Maybe I'm not receiving this.

 

 

The way you have described your relationship in these last few posts almost makes it seem like you guys are not really that close and that you don't really need her for anything. So let me ask you instead of just assuming - what do you get out of this relationship? What do you like about it? How has any of that changed since this backpacking trip?

 

I mean...I don't think I need her for anything. She has helped me a lot, but if she never talked to me again, I'd be devastated romantically, but I wouldn't "need" anything. I take care of myself.

 

 

It seems like you are facing a dilemma and you need to figure out where you see this relationship going. Is this a relationship worth working for? If it is, and you want to keep it open, you're going to have to recognize the value the relationship adds to your life and realize that this value is more important than missing out on a few peak experiences. You're going to have to realize that you can have peak experiences with her later, that 6 years is not long in the grand scheme of things, and that future experiences won't be diminished by this one backpacking trip. (Also, you can get away for occasional brief adventures during grad school - you may have more opportunities than you think).

 

6 years is a long time. It'll take me out of my 20's and into a far more serious, less extravagantly fun, period of my life. My dreams and goals will change. I will become a different person. How many people do you see travelling from hostel to hostel, being debaucherous, being adventurous, and meeting tons of members of the opposite sex, out of their 20's?

 

 

Or you need to accept that this relationship really isn't of high value to you. In which case, who cares what she is doing on this trip? It doesn't affect you and doesn't detract from your life. Keep enjoying the relationship for what it is and stop worrying about what is happening on her trip.

 

Obviously, it does impact my life right now. Let alone taking away the dreams I wanted to live with her, as you said I am an "emotional tampon". Maybe you think that's fun.

 

I will try that last bit of advice though: Keep enjoying the relationship for what it is.

Edited June 15, 2017 by DJOkawari

[DJOkawari]

Thank you for answering my question....from the outside, I would say that this R is not truly working for you. I know this is hard to hear but deep inside, I believe you already know this and thus writing on a forum such as LS. That said, you also state that while it appears she is getting much from this arrangement, when you asked for emotional support, she "took it personal". Does that mean she took it to heart or that she got defensive? My bet is the later....this would suggest that she is interested in herself before you which is indicative of an unbalanced relationship. I see this as you're the "safe guy" for when her life has to return to normal, mundane, you'll be there to maintain a steady supply of support after she's sowed the wild oats so to speak. I personally would view a balanced relationship as one where both make sacrifices for each other...i.e. let's travel short periods, closer so that we can experience things together, not sorry you can't come but I'm going anyway and I'm going to find someone to fill the "void" since you can't come with me...to me this is a "to hell with you, here's to me" approach. Then to get defensive, if that's a correct description, is callous at best. Just my perspective from the outside based on what you've written.

 

Yeah you've really summed up some of my feeling on this as well. I pointed out to her I feel like her "safe" option at home and she disagreed. To be honest, the guy she dated before me for 6 years was exactly that. I think she didn't want me to be that as she broke up with her ex for this reason, but I think that is how she operates.

 

Finally, yeah, she's apologized about being selfish many times to me already. We both know she has some issue with that.

 

 

 

It sounds like it has a lot more to do about this vacation. Is this a one time thing, or will she always be going on vacations without you? if it's a one time thing, I don't blame you for feeling like you are missing out, I'd be jealous if my wife got to go on a trip like that without me, even without the sex part.

 

But if in the future you'll be able to go on trips like this with her, and she'll be just as wild with you as she is with these strange guys, then I don't think it is that big of a deal.

 

It's going to be 6 years before we having another chance to go and even then I doubt it'll be 4 months travelling. I'll be in a completely different part of my life then.

 

You seem to have really disregarded what Gemma said, but I think she showed a lot of wisdom and experience in her post about how the actual relationship is different than the flings in an open relationship.

 

It was just taking me a while to compile my answer to her. I'm really grateful she responded and I was writing my reply as you posted this.

 

You don't seem to be looking at any of the pros of being in a relationship, and so if it really isn't worth being with the day to day version of her, maybe this isn't the right relationship for you.

 

Yeah, I've been thinking about that. I think the way I'm seeing it is that everyone has a day-to-day version and their more adventurous versions. Having only the day-to-day of anyone would be a glass half empty scenario for me. Maybe some people see it as a glass half-full.

Edited June 15, 2017 by DJOkawari