Anyway to turn the tables on OLD?

[CptInsano]

When did I imply that I don't like interacting with women?

I'm not a fan of the club/pub scene, but I enjoy interacting with women if I feel they're genuine and have some sort of depth to them - there's not much more that I want than a women with a mind to step into my life.

 

I posted a thread a while ago were I completely fell for a women in my class: she was cute and could talk for hours about literature and philosophy. It's largely because of my interactions with her that I realized how much I want that sort of interaction.

 

I understand that you have the intellectual side covered, and are looking to be understood. That is a good thing, and I wouldn't want to talk you out of it. However, please don't neglect the fun/sexual side, or you will end up with female friends over and over.

 

I also understand that not everyone is into clubs, but going to pubs with friends can be fun, and private parties are just the best. I would work on your fun, social side a little more, because if you want a girlfriend you will have to be more than friends. You will have to take risks and go beyond what you are currently comfortable with.

 

I'm also worried that you seem to think that women who party have no depth. This very contrary to my experience. Most smart woman I knew were very social, with all that it entails.

[preraph]

When did I imply that I don't like interacting with women?

I'm not a fan of the club/pub scene, but I enjoy interacting with women if I feel they're genuine and have some sort of depth to them - there's not much more that I want than a women with a mind to step into my life.

 

I posted a thread a while ago were I completely fell for a women in my class: she was cute and could talk for hours about literature and philosophy. It's largely because of my interactions with her that I realized how much I want that sort of interaction.

 

By griping about what a hassle it is interacting with them on OLD.

[SwordofFlame]

Unfortunately the best way to tip the scales in your favor is to get older and get your **** together. A guy in his 30s with a good job is about as desirable as it gets. At your current age, the scales are massively in the women's favor.

[NuevoYorko]

Is OLD a justifiable route for the average guy?

It doesn't need to be justifiable and the power dynamic is what it is. Just do your best, listen to advice about polishing your profile and don't put all your eggs in one basket.

 

There are plenty of couples that met via OLD, most of them include a man.

[PegNosePete]

I would have expected the odd message from average and below average looking women

Yeah you might expect that but it's simply not the case. Women especially in your age group, put up a profile, sit there, and suddenly have 100 messages. Why would they bother to send out any messages at all? There's no reason for them to do so because they have a line of guys waiting. You can either join the line (or if you have a great profile, skip to the front!!) or you can sit there in the background and go unnoticed.

 

I'm left to fight tooth and nail for any and all interaction.

 

The balance of power is simply devastating.

Look you're thinking about this all wrong. It's not some kind of power struggle. It's people trying to find relationships the best they can.

 

You aren't "fighting tooth and nail". Yes as the guy you have to send out messages. Why is that fighting? Just send a short, fun message that makes it obvious you've read the profile, and ask a simple question. Then move on to the next. If you get a response, great. If not, it's not like you broke a leg or lost a grand, is it?? And when you do get a response, assuming it's not a rejection, just carry on the conversation. After a few messages it will either fizzle out or you'll ask to meet in real life.

 

As soon as you think about power struggles or fighting tooth and nail, you're taking it WAY too seriously.

 

You've had some good feedback on your profile on the POF forums so I won't add much here, just that you NEED better photos.

[d0nnivain]

Yeah you might expect that but it's simply not the case. Women especially in your age group, put up a profile, sit there, and suddenly have 100 messages. Why would they bother to send out any messages at all? There's no reason for them to do so because they have a line of guys waiting.

 

I think some women do search the profiles because the men who come forward aren't necessarily the ones the women want

[tetrahedral]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll take some better pics tomorrow.

I'll also try to only use OLD as a back up - but I'm not really someone who enjoys the pub/club scene. Looks like I'll need to get over that lol.

 

People on this site won't tell you this, because it's politically incorrect, but you do need to get over it.

 

Honestly, your profile is unflattering. None of the pictures show you doing anything. They're all in your home.

 

If you're going to make a dating profile, you need to tell a story with the pictures. If you're into cycling, don't write it as an interest, show a picture of you at a race. If you put a picture at the beach, it's 100x better than writing "I like going to the beach". Show, don't tell. The pictures make you look like you have no friends.

 

If you are insistent on using online dating, think about it like this: the text at the bottom doesn't exist. Your challenge is to use the pictures to get what you want across.

 

You have some good features by the way. High cheekbones. I bet you'd clean up well. Be more social, and don't take sh*t, and you'll do great.

[elaine567]

I think some women do search the profiles because the men who come forward aren't necessarily the ones the women want

 

In exactly the same way, men often tend to discount the women who do message them as not being the ones they want to attract...

[PegNosePete]

I think some women do search the profiles because the men who come forward aren't necessarily the ones the women want

Yes a small minority of women do message men first. I got 1 or 2 first messages a month when I was using OLD.

 

In the OP's age group it's very rare.

[JuneJulySeptember]

OP, I think that's just the way it is. As a man who used OLD for a while that was my experience as well. I do think a lot of people on OLD are looking for the PERFECT match. My attitude was, go out, have a drink, have a conversation. If it doesn't work out, move on. At least a night out is better than another night home alone with Netflix, right?

 

FYI, I met my current GF who I love very much, through OLD. But, talking to her and other female friends, they get inundated with messages. I sent out a lot of messages (maybe 100 or so?). I think in the two years I was on OLD (POF and OKC) I got two unsolicited messages from women. I know it's bad to try to ascribe any behavior to any group, but, I think, as a general rule, it's easier for women to get dates than it is for men. So they can be "pickier" because they get so many messages. I'm not sure what the message is here, but there it is.

 

It helps me to think of it in the grand scheme of things.

 

OK, so this woman has gotten messages from 500 men over her 2 years on OLD. And I have gotten rejected by 100 women on my 2 years there.

 

So ... how important is that to me in the grand scheme of my life? Do I want the value of my life to be based on how many people I was able to sexually attract? Or bigger things?

 

If that woman was deformed would she still get messages from 500 men? Well, then why is that something that holds value for me?

 

Anyway, as to your bolded, women do have a better opportunity to be 'happier' I believe, but they often don't use it to their advantage. Also, everything is relative. Even Brad Pitt, the most desired man on Earth has been divorced how many times?

[Jamie_1]

By griping about what a hassle it is interacting with them on OLD.

 

That's not at all what I was saying. I'm moaning about the power dynamics of online dating - not that speaking to women is exhausting in of itself- because it's not.

[Jamie_1]

Yeah you might expect that but it's simply not the case. Women especially in your age group, put up a profile, sit there, and suddenly have 100 messages. Why would they bother to send out any messages at all? There's no reason for them to do so because they have a line of guys waiting. You can either join the line (or if you have a great profile, skip to the front!!) or you can sit there in the background and go unnoticed.

 

 

Look you're thinking about this all wrong. It's not some kind of power struggle. It's people trying to find relationships the best they can.

 

You aren't "fighting tooth and nail". Yes as the guy you have to send out messages. Why is that fighting? Just send a short, fun message that makes it obvious you've read the profile, and ask a simple question. Then move on to the next. If you get a response, great. If not, it's not like you broke a leg or lost a grand, is it?? And when you do get a response, assuming it's not a rejection, just carry on the conversation. After a few messages it will either fizzle out or you'll ask to meet in real life.

 

As soon as you think about power struggles or fighting tooth and nail, you're taking it WAY too seriously.

 

You've had some good feedback on your profile on the POF forums so I won't add much here, just that you NEED better photos.

 

Thank you. That was helpful - I can notice a pattern emerging in the feedback: I'm perhaps a touch too serious

[Jamie_1]

People on this site won't tell you this, because it's politically incorrect, but you do need to get over it.

 

Honestly, your profile is unflattering. None of the pictures show you doing anything. They're all in your home.

 

If you're going to make a dating profile, you need to tell a story with the pictures. If you're into cycling, don't write it as an interest, show a picture of you at a race. If you put a picture at the beach, it's 100x better than writing "I like going to the beach". Show, don't tell. The pictures make you look like you have no friends.

 

If you are insistent on using online dating, think about it like this: the text at the bottom doesn't exist. Your challenge is to use the pictures to get what you want across.

 

You have some good features by the way. High cheekbones. I bet you'd clean up well. Be more social, and don't take sh*t, and you'll do great.

 

I'll need to add some better pictures.

That's a great way of framing the problem, that success is dependent on your pictorial narrative.

[rushed]

As for your profile, keep only the first picture (one where you're smiling), you're cute in that one. The other ones are all weird (unnatural close ups), get rid of them.

 

I second this. You're a cutie in that first picture. Trash the rest of the pics. Like right now. Even if you don't have any pics to replace them with, you're better off with one good picture and no others.

 

OLD is mostly about looks. When I was on it, I would scroll through a cute guy's pictures and if I saw one (or several) that were unflattering I'd move on to the next guy.

[normal person]

Is there anyway to flip the power dynamic in online dating between men and women?

 

Yes, but it's not necessarily an easy one: don't be average. People desire the best possible partner for themselves, not the most mediocre one. The catalogue nature of OLD will shine a tremendous spotlight on everything about you: the things about you that are good, bad, and average. And if you're bad or average, you're indiscernible from the 50,000 other faceless schmoes out there that the women are trying very hard to avoid and ignore.

 

I've been using POF and while I've had some great conversations and got some numbers, it's utterly exhausting having to chase women.

 

Make them chase you.

 

I've sent over a 100 messages instigating some sort of conversation and I've yet to receive a message from a women looking to instigate something (apart from some threesome that had scam written all over it).

I'm operating at a worse than a 100:1 instigation rate. Are average looking guys doomed to these sorts of odds (presuming I'm average looking - I've got no idea what I look like)?

 

How you look isn't as big of a deal as you think it might be. More importantly, you need a base level of confidence and respectability to have a foot in the door, and specifically for OLD, you need a way to display it in your profile and be unique with it if possible.

 

I wouldn't message women. All it does is advertise the fact that you're a guy that has to message women and not a guy who women message. When you ask someone for something, you're admitting that they have more power and leverage than you and it's not a good look, it lowers you beneath them. And if you become desirable, you don't have to do that.

 

The way to do this is, as I said earlier, to not be average. You have to strive for success in a lot of different arenas. Women like confident, successful, ambitious, smart, men that can engage their emotions somehow. Be the best human you can be and find a way to set yourself apart in some way, if possible. So do the best you can in everything you do, derive confidence from your successes in life, and the fruits of your labor will start to manifest and pay dividends. If you work through discomfort to do difficult things and you're competent enough, you'll have success. If you have success, you'll have confidence, and likely, resources (money). Once you turn that corner, the world will really open up for you. But I don't think there's any quick fix or magic bullet, you actually have to put in the sweat equity to make things happen for yourself.

 

Best of luck.

[Chilli]

When l was on it and met by far the best of the lot , yet even most of them were exhausted and had been going through it for yrs.

And you know what, l went in for a look around just awhile back , been a few yrs , and they're nearly all still on there, 100s and 100s of them and not only but their on 3 or 4 sites.

So l dunno, anyone buying into the so called buyers market rubbish obviously haven't read through LS and there'd be no single women out there let alone on date sites for years and years if that was really the case.

But there's zillions and they've all been all over date sites.

So don't fall for the malarkey.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Chilli

[CptInsano]

When l was on it and met by far the best of the lot , yet even most of them were exhausted and had been going through it for yrs.

And you know what, l went in for a look around just awhile back , been a few yrs , and they're nearly all still on there, 100s and 100s of them and not only but their on 3 or 4 sites.

 

Yes, the reasons for being single likely persisted. OLD is no cure for that.

 

So l dunno, anyone buying into the so called buyers market rubbish obviously haven't read through LS and there'd be no single women out there let alone on date sites for years and years if that was really the case.

But there's zillions and they've all been all over date sites.

So don't fall for the malarkey.

 

It is a buyer's market for online attention if you are an attractive female. But IRL there is no shortage of women, and in the US quite the opposite as we age. So the buyer's market crumbles in the form of flakers, married men, catfish, multi-daters, spank-bank collectors and outright spammers.

 

OLD doesn't create new people. In the end the candidates are still those living around you.