Jamie_1 Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 Is there anyway to flip the power dynamic in online dating between men and women? I've been using POF and while I've had some great conversations and got some numbers, it's utterly exhausting having to chase women. I've sent over a 100 messages instigating some sort of conversation and I've yet to receive a message from a women looking to instigate something (apart from some threesome that had scam written all over it). I'm operating at a worse than a 100:1 instigation rate. Are average looking guys doomed to these sorts of odds (presuming I'm average looking - I've got no idea what I look like)? Is there anyway to improve this ratio or is there a site that tips the balance of power?
d0nnivain Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 Polish your profile. But that will only improve your odds a little. OLD is a buyers' market & women are the buyers. 2
Author Jamie_1 Posted June 14, 2017 Author Posted June 14, 2017 Polish your profile. But that will only improve your odds a little. OLD is a buyers' market & women are the buyers. Is OLD a justifiable route for the average guy?
d0nnivain Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 Define justifiable. Most people have been on it at one time. I found it demoralizing & I'm a woman. In another thread you said something about being in college. That seems to me to be the best place to meet somebody, IRL on campus It's summer. Get out there & have fun! Concentrate on meeting girls in person with OLD as a fallback 3
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 Hmmm, good question. In my experience in OLD, women barely have to do anything to get a ton of messages. I guess it's not really fair. I only initiated contact a handful of times. I'm only speaking for myself so some women may totally disagree (which is fine ), but maybe you could include something in your profile like, "If you think we have things in common or would have good conversation, send me a hello and I'll message you back. I promise not to be....." (however you want to word it...a stalker? needy? too aggressive?) As a woman, I would be more inclined to initiate contact with a man if I was asked to consider doing so and knew he wasn't going to be all over me and not leave me alone if I found that I wasn't interested in further conversation. Unfortunately, I had a lot of experiences that were the opposite of that (being accused of being X,Y, or Z if I wasn't interested....some men are real jerks).
Author Jamie_1 Posted June 14, 2017 Author Posted June 14, 2017 Define justifiable. Most people have been on it at one time. I found it demoralizing & I'm a woman. In another thread you said something about being in college. That seems to me to be the best place to meet somebody, IRL on campus It's summer. Get out there & have fun! Concentrate on meeting girls in person with OLD as a fallback I've just left college and I'm off to Uni in September - so that will need to wait 'till then. As you might also remember, I was completely smitten with someone in my college class and well nothing came of it (apart from probably embarrassing myself). I'd define justifiable as: a means in which to meet someone without having to drive yourself into the ground.
Author Jamie_1 Posted June 14, 2017 Author Posted June 14, 2017 Would it be inappropriate to ask for feedback on my pof account? Link: JJB2077 Gaming, philosophy, religion, psychology, history
d0nnivain Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 I'd define justifiable as: a means in which to meet someone without having to drive yourself into the ground. OLD can be depressing. You get rejected more than you connect so I am not a fan It has a purpose. But if that is the only way you are going to try to meet women, you will have a very unhappy summer. Reconnect with your HS buddies & go do stuff. Find out where people your age hang out when they are home from college. Check out who is around at your summer job. Take a summer class at the local community college
d0nnivain Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 It's not a bad profile. TPTB here will take it down off this site shortly because links like that are not allowed. You look very young for your stated age. I think you will do better going to the local pub with your mates or meeting a girl at a soccer match. Try finding a local MeetUp group that does something you are interested in. 75 miles is a long radius. Unless you have to make it that big to encompass a nearby city. Years ago when I was on OLD I was told to make mine range that big to include NYC All that did was get a few NY guys to tell me I was geographically undesirable but to look them up if I ever moved to the City. 2
central Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 I found the same - that my response rate was abysmal, even when I matched everything her profile asked for. But I turned it around. I'm an average looking guy, with a good career, etc., but I didn't talk much about that, of course. I stopped initiating any contact with anyone. I studied a variety of both men's and women's profiles to find good ones, read up on what makes a good profile, and also what makes for a good set of photos. I wrote the best profile I could, and revised it often, based on the results it generated. I used wit and humor to convey who I am and what I wanted. Over a 2 year period, I got nearly 1000 unique first contacts, a few hundred of which had multiple message exchanges. I met about 50 of them - I would not meet anyone who was clearly not a good match, but early on did meet less good matches to kind of "calibrate" my profile and intuition for interpreting what women wrote. I couldn't change my looks - fortunately I was an unobjectionable average - but I could be as appealing from an emotional, intellectual, and lifestyle perspective as possible, based on what I learned regarding what women do seem to want based on how they respond to profiles and who they date. Apparently it worked. And I liked the kind of women who typically responded: secure, motivated, and willing to take initiative to get what they wanted. I had a few really great relationships, and my wife found me, too - and she was (and still is!) extraordinary. 1
Author Jamie_1 Posted June 14, 2017 Author Posted June 14, 2017 I found the same - that my response rate was abysmal, even when I matched everything her profile asked for. But I turned it around. I'm an average looking guy, with a good career, etc., but I didn't talk much about that, of course. I stopped initiating any contact with anyone. I studied a variety of both men's and women's profiles to find good ones, read up on what makes a good profile, and also what makes for a good set of photos. I wrote the best profile I could, and revised it often, based on the results it generated. I used wit and humor to convey who I am and what I wanted. Over a 2 year period, I got nearly 1000 unique first contacts, a few hundred of which had multiple message exchanges. I met about 50 of them - I would not meet anyone who was clearly not a good match, but early on did meet less good matches to kind of "calibrate" my profile and intuition for interpreting what women wrote. I couldn't change my looks - fortunately I was an unobjectionable average - but I could be as appealing from an emotional, intellectual, and lifestyle perspective as possible, based on what I learned regarding what women do seem to want based on how they respond to profiles and who they date. Apparently it worked. And I liked the kind of women who typically responded: secure, motivated, and willing to take initiative to get what they wanted. I had a few really great relationships, and my wife found me, too - and she was (and still is!) extraordinary. How does my profile match up to the best ones you've seen? What's obviously lacking?
Author Jamie_1 Posted June 14, 2017 Author Posted June 14, 2017 It's not a bad profile. TPTB here will take it down off this site shortly because links like that are not allowed. You look very young for your stated age. I think you will do better going to the local pub with your mates or meeting a girl at a soccer match. Try finding a local MeetUp group that does something you are interested in. 75 miles is a long radius. Unless you have to make it that big to encompass a nearby city. Years ago when I was on OLD I was told to make mine range that big to include NYC All that did was get a few NY guys to tell me I was geographically undesirable but to look them up if I ever moved to the City. Do you think my perceived age is letting me down?
elaine567 Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 I know grinning like a Cheshire cat is not a good look for men, but you do look a bit serious, glum and even down cast in your pics. Most women want to have a fun time and whilst no doubt you can be fun, you do not give that impression with those pics. The one in which you are somewhat smiling I think you look good, but I would describe that smile as somewhat supercilious, which would be great if backed up by some other better pics instead of the glum ones. I think you just need to look a bit friendlier.
Imajerk17 Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) Would it be inappropriate to ask for feedback on my pof account? Link: JJB2077 Gaming, philosophy, religion, psychology, history 1. I agree with @elaine567. It's just a bunch of headshots of you and you don't look happy. THAT will rule you out to most women from online even to begin with. I suppose some women will be attracted to the brooding loner types (your target audience?) but you'd likely have more success if you posted at least one picture of you w friends. 2. I'd advise most guys your age to not go the OLD route in the first place. MOST college-aged girls aren't even on-line to begin with, as they are already meeting plenty of guys from "real life". If you are into eclectic brainy girls who don't get out much (I get that impression from your profile), then maybe POF isn't where you should be looking. If you insist on trying online, then you might have better luck on OKCupid or even gaming sites. Edited June 14, 2017 by Imajerk17
JustGettingBy Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 Honestly take a break for a week or two and focus on stuff you enjoy. Come back with a fresh mindset and a boosted self-esteem.
Maggie4 Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 First, I agree with the others, online is not the best way to meet girls your age. As for your profile, keep only the first picture (one where you're smiling), you're cute in that one. The other ones are all weird (unnatural close ups), get rid of them. On these sites, often what happens is that all the men are chasing a handful of girls with good profiles and cute pictures. There are still a lot of girls you have overlooked.
teak Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 I would suggest not throwing such a broad blanket out there. Take your time, actually read profiles, and only write to women whose personalities are of interest to you. Grab a little piece of info that sticks out to you from their profile from somewhere in the middle and just send a line or 2 referencing it. Don't send copy paste messages. Don't send novel length messages. Just something that *shows* you read the profile and doesn't waste either of your time if she's not into you. I've checked your profile, and here's where I can see needing a little room for improvement. Photos aren't really flattering (mostly too many similar angles and lighting). If you have photos of you out in natural lighting, that will mix it up a little. Profile sounds interesting, geared toward thinkers. Make sure you're sending messages to women who seem like thinkers. Use OLD as an enhancement to interpersonal connections in real-life. OLD shouldn't be your only pool.
Author Jamie_1 Posted June 14, 2017 Author Posted June 14, 2017 Thanks for the feedback. I'll take some better pics tomorrow. I'll also try to only use OLD as a back up - but I'm not really someone who enjoys the pub/club scene. Looks like I'll need to get over that lol.
telemakus Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 Waste of time. Seriously all the women on those sites are chasing after the top 15% of hot guys. If you want to see, set up a fake profile with photos of a tall, hot guy. You'll get inundated by messages, even if you write that you still wear a nappy on day trips. 1
Author Jamie_1 Posted June 14, 2017 Author Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) I'm not against everyone trying to grasp beyond their reach: I've messaged countless people that are so far out my league it's a joke. The problem seems to be, that many, if not most women will simply not settle for anything less than the top 15% - irrespective of their own standing. I would have expected the odd message from average and below average looking women, but it has simply not happened and I'm left to fight tooth and nail for any and all interaction. The balance of power is simply devastating. Edit: I wouldn't say it's a waste of time, I've managed to get a few numbers and I got on unbelievably well with someone well beyond my league, but she lived in a different country, and she seemed genuinely disappointed by that. But as I've been saying, the return on your time is truly awful. Edited June 14, 2017 by Jamie_1
JuneJulySeptember Posted June 15, 2017 Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) I'm not against everyone trying to grasp beyond their reach: I've messaged countless people that are so far out my league it's a joke. The problem seems to be, that many, if not most women will simply not settle for anything less than the top 15% - irrespective of their own standing. I would have expected the odd message from average and below average looking women, but it has simply not happened and I'm left to fight tooth and nail for any and all interaction. The balance of power is simply devastating. Edit: I wouldn't say it's a waste of time, I've managed to get a few numbers and I got on unbelievably well with someone well beyond my league, but she lived in a different country, and she seemed genuinely disappointed by that. But as I've been saying, the return on your time is truly awful. Although I agree OLD is not great for a young guy of your 'demeanor' (down to Earth, regular guy type), the bar scene is probably not gonna be all that much better. And OLD is minimal effort. You can go on Match.com and then you can see who views you. Message only those women. Your return rate will more likely be something like 1 in 5 than 1 in 40. Seriously, if I picked women blind and messaged them on OLD it might something like 1 in 300. As it was, I handpicked who I thought I had a good chance with, and wrote thoughtful messages and my return rate was like almost nill amongst women who didn't view me first. The only way I can explain it is that women are EXTREMELY selective about the TYPE of guy they want. If you fall out of that type, you're just dead in the water no matter what. OTOH, if you go with the Match.com/looks at you first method, you know at least 50% of the women who view your profile at least will consider someone who looks like you. That's the first step you need to get by. The other half probably clicked on your profile by mistake. Edited June 15, 2017 by JuneJulySeptember
HangnTN Posted June 15, 2017 Posted June 15, 2017 I guess I'm a success story....never had trouble getting women to respond, and in fact my current wife found me on Match. We dated for 5 years and have been married for 9. Some suggestions (from a pro, former advertising copy writer, freelance writer and magazine editor): Photos...90 percent of your message will be communicated visually. Have a friend take pics of you doing something interesting--gym, riding, bicycling, sports, in front of impressive/interesting building, landscape, etc. I had shots of me riding in a snow storm, in front of a book case holding a book and looking up, scuba diving, and leaning on the side of my car. Don't post crappy photos. Spend some time with the pictures. Talk about what you do for fun, your aspirations, some quirky stuff--I said I knew (and I do know) the "secret" entrance to the Louvre. Talk about what you like/want/love in a woman. Are you "old school" do you hold doors for women, walk them to their car, pick up the check? I don't hold doors for women because they can't, but because I can. Since you have an academic bent, come up with a pithy quote: "Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, 'It might have been.'" Some self-effacing comments are good so they won't think you're full of yourself, but do try to maintain an alpha attitude. Good luck. 1
preraph Posted June 15, 2017 Posted June 15, 2017 Just a passing thought: If you don't enjoy interacting with women, why you chasing them? I mean, shouldn't meeting women and dating them be fun? If it's not fun, don't do it. Meanwhile, I agree with the other suggestions how to tweak your profile but in the end you still have to have it in you to want to socialize and communicate with women if you're wanting to wind up with one. 2
Author Jamie_1 Posted June 15, 2017 Author Posted June 15, 2017 When did I imply that I don't like interacting with women? I'm not a fan of the club/pub scene, but I enjoy interacting with women if I feel they're genuine and have some sort of depth to them - there's not much more that I want than a women with a mind to step into my life. I posted a thread a while ago were I completely fell for a women in my class: she was cute and could talk for hours about literature and philosophy. It's largely because of my interactions with her that I realized how much I want that sort of interaction.
caveman621 Posted June 15, 2017 Posted June 15, 2017 OP, I think that's just the way it is. As a man who used OLD for a while that was my experience as well. I do think a lot of people on OLD are looking for the PERFECT match. My attitude was, go out, have a drink, have a conversation. If it doesn't work out, move on. At least a night out is better than another night home alone with Netflix, right? FYI, I met my current GF who I love very much, through OLD. But, talking to her and other female friends, they get inundated with messages. I sent out a lot of messages (maybe 100 or so?). I think in the two years I was on OLD (POF and OKC) I got two unsolicited messages from women. I know it's bad to try to ascribe any behavior to any group, but, I think, as a general rule, it's easier for women to get dates than it is for men. So they can be "pickier" because they get so many messages. I'm not sure what the message is here, but there it is.
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