mossycup Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 I went out with a guy this week, it was our first meeting. We went to a sportsbar type place around 630 pm on a Monday - hardly romantic. Part way through the meal, he took my hand, which felt wierd, and as I pulled away, he was still reaching for it. After the meal he came and sat next to me on my side of the booth and put his arm around me and then touched and held my face. I was super uncomfortable so I asked him to stop, saying I didn't like PDAs, but in retrospect I wish I had told him that what he was doing was inappropriate. After I felt icky for a long time and slept anxiously. I don't think I'm being oversensitive, but does anyone else have experiences like this? Why would a person feel like this was an appropriate way to interact with a stranger? Do any guys want to comment on why a guy would do this?
fred123 Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 I went out with a guy this week, it was our first meeting. We went to a sportsbar type place around 630 pm on a Monday - hardly romantic. Part way through the meal, he took my hand, which felt wierd, and as I pulled away, he was still reaching for it. After the meal he came and sat next to me on my side of the booth and put his arm around me and then touched and held my face. I was super uncomfortable so I asked him to stop, saying I didn't like PDAs, but in retrospect I wish I had told him that what he was doing was inappropriate. After I felt icky for a long time and slept anxiously. I don't think I'm being oversensitive, but does anyone else have experiences like this? Why would a person feel like this was an appropriate way to interact with a stranger? Do any guys want to comment on why a guy would do this? If brad pitt did that you wouldnt be complaining right? Ur just not into him
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 If brad pitt did that you wouldnt be complaining right? Ur just not into him You may feel that men would be OK with a gorgeous woman pawing at him on the first date, but most women do not feel this way, just as an FYI. 5
Gaeta Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 Yes it happened to me. We were sitting in a family restaurant around 5pm when suddenly my date got up, walked around the table toward me, grabbed my neck with his arm and started kissing me. Just like that. No warning. He's standing up next to me with my head inside his arm. I pushed him away and I said: WTH?? and he said he could not resist he found me so pretty. I lost it. I told him he was an idiot, here we are in a family restaurants with children sitting around us and he's acting like a man with no manners and no respect for me or anyone around. After I gave it to him I left. He ran after me and he tried to apologize but I was furious. He called my phone I don't know how many times. Just an idiot!! and all around idiot! 3
Gaeta Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 If brad pitt did that you wouldnt be complaining right? Ur just not into him Are you serious?? You think because a man is good looking that gives him the right to act like a **g toward women? She told him NO and he kept going at it. There is word for that and it's called 'an aggression'. No means NO, no matter how good looking you are. 5
RecentChange Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 Hum.... Personally if I was into someone, I would be okay with this sort of touching on a first date. BUT, the fact that you weren't, and he wasn't reading your body laugage to the point you had to verbally tell him to stop is troubling. GUY learn how to READ people. GALS be clear! (Which it sounds like you were) and assertive. I can't imagine losing sleep over such an incident, but I can see how this guy came off as tone deaf. 5
trailwolf Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 i dont think ur being over sensitive at all , i can only speak for myself but i never touched a lady on the first date . but there have been times where we both hit it off real well and we did touch but only after she initiated it . 1
Gaeta Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 Hum.... I can't imagine losing sleep over such an incident, I don't think she is traumatized by it but simply mad at herself for not telling him off. 1
d0nnivain Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 I have been on dates through OLD where I was not attracted to the guy & didn't want to hold hands, have his arm around me or kiss him but doing all of those things is pretty normal date behavior. You were on a date, right? So no I don't think his attempt to hold your hand was out of line. Since you do, you had every right to tell him that. But you weren't really clear. That said, him coming to your side of the booth was out of line. I have always thought 2 people on one side of a booth with nobody on the other side was odd. Again, though having a man put his arm around a woman on a date is not out of the norm. Face touching in this setting was him not getting the clues, so odd. You draw lines for early PDA somewhere different then where I draw them, which is fine. This guy was clearly more tactile then you were comfortable with. That said, I wouldn't call any of this "inappropriate touching." I thought you were going to say he took your hand & put it on his genitals. That would have been inappropriate He stuck to G rated places. Based on your reaction it was totally UNWELCOME touching but I'm splitting hairs with you about vocabulary words. I am not suggesting that you were supposed to put up with this if you didn't like it.
elaine567 Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 Mossycup hasn't actually expressed if she was "into him" or not, but she was certainly not into being pawed at by a complete stranger... I think if a woman is not happy having her hand held by a man, she is definitely not going to be happy with his arm around her and him touching her face. Very poor social skills - he ignored the signs that she was not happy with his advances, and he then pushed himself further onto her... 1
kendahke Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 I went out with a guy this week, it was our first meeting. We went to a sportsbar type place around 630 pm on a Monday - hardly romantic. Part way through the meal, he took my hand, which felt wierd, and as I pulled away, he was still reaching for it. After the meal he came and sat next to me on my side of the booth and put his arm around me and then touched and held my face. I was super uncomfortable so I asked him to stop, saying I didn't like PDAs, but in retrospect I wish I had told him that what he was doing was inappropriate. After I felt icky for a long time and slept anxiously. I don't think I'm being oversensitive, but does anyone else have experiences like this? Why would a person feel like this was an appropriate way to interact with a stranger? Do any guys want to comment on why a guy would do this? I just went through this with a guy I'd just met. Same thing as this guy. I swear, if he could have crawled into my skin and inhabited my body with me, it still wouldn't have been close enough for him. Initially, I thought him holding my hand was dear, until it became having his hand on my arm or shoulder the whole time, taking a walk and wanting to hold my hand instead of doing the power walking we were supposed to be doing. I slammed on the brakes the next day when he told me he drove past my job and thought about coming in and surprising me. I told him straight up that that was creepy--he seemed taken aback by my saying it. That's when I told him it wasn't a good idea to continue seeing one another. He tried to talk me out of it, but what he was doing was not listening to me telling him that his behavior was making uncomfortable and creeped out. On the one hand he said he understood, then he'd say that I'd eventually come around and I was like "NO! That's not going to happen". It should haven't to get to the point where you have to unzip the lizard on them, but sometimes, that's what it comes down to. Thank god he's left me alone.
kendahke Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) GALS be clear! (Which it sounds like you were) and assertive. I can't imagine losing sleep over such an incident I went out with a guy this week, it was our first meeting. So she should just get over some guy she barely knows violating her personal space? It's easy to be dismissive when you've never experienced it. Looks have nothing to do with it. Ted Bundy was a good looking man, too. The guy I got rid of was good looking, but he was a complete stranger to me who assumed a familiarity with me he hadn't yet earned. Edited June 14, 2017 by kendahke 3
SwordofFlame Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 As a guy here who's been on many online dates, I'll chime in. Men are supposed to be able to read women and make the moves to escalate through physical touch. It's entirely possible he misread you. It happens, we're not mind readers and most women just expect men to know when to physically touch and escalate. It can be tough to know when to escalate through physical touch. Some guys can be more aggressive about it than others. Some women will also move on from the guy if he doesn't make a move. It's also entirely possible that he just didn't care whether you wanted to be touched or not.
elaine567 Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 It's also entirely possible that he just didn't care whether you wanted to be touched or not. I think that is the most likely diagnosis here and why the OP felt uncomfortable, icky and disrespected after the experience. 2
Author mossycup Posted June 14, 2017 Author Posted June 14, 2017 Lots of good comments to think about here. My general intuition was that this person really wanted to touch. Just like he really wanted to talk. I read a good article today about how isolated men get both emotionally and physically, compared to women, for whom talking and touching amongst friends is more common. I don't know this guy's history at all except that he is amicably divorced with two kids, but I feel pretty safe in assuming he was wanting/needing contact. I think what makes me angry in a situation like this, even though I do feel compassion for people who are lonely, is that it really wasn't about me at all. He interrupted me every time I spoke and never took the conversation in a direction towards me. By the time he got to touching me, I didn't have any feeling of human connection with him, but rather I was an object of lust/sympathy/whatever projections. I felt unseen. That's kind of an ego thing. But I also felt violated. I feel like he didn't care about my personal space or feelings at all, just wanted to get at my body. And while I don't have sexual trauma, I am sensitive and I felt gross after, like a sort of energy violation. I wish I had been able to be more honest with him. People only grow and become better if they get direct feedback about their actions. If it happens again, and I feel safe, I will tell the person directly at the time what they are doing that is putting me off. They can then choose to either modify their behaviour, or stop being around me. 6
Author mossycup Posted June 14, 2017 Author Posted June 14, 2017 Actually also another really strong emotion I had was confusion. I really had a hard time understanding how a person could think it was appropriate to touch that way so early in meeting someone. But some of the posters on here have let me know that for some people, that feels ok. So that helps me understand the situation a bit more. 2
authenticity Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 I think you need to learn to screen guys better before dates. The fact that he was unable to read the situation and cease unwanted advances tells me that you might have been giving off certain vibes before or during the date. If you are uncomfortable being assertive in these situations, learn to get to know guys a bit more before going out with them. I wish men were more in tune to these kind of signals but sadly, they're not. I'm sorry this happened to you
JuneJulySeptember Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 Actually also another really strong emotion I had was confusion. I really had a hard time understanding how a person could think it was appropriate to touch that way so early in meeting someone. But some of the posters on here have let me know that for some people, that feels ok. So that helps me understand the situation a bit more. Most guys want to grab any woman that has a decent body. I know when I'm walking in the subway for instance, I see hordes of attractive women. It's my natural instinct to want to grab them all. Of course, I have restrained myself my entire life. I'm not alone in this either. I've talked to other guys. So, maybe when certain guys are on a date, they figure there's no repercussions to grabbing women. If they grab a stranger on the street, they may get their butt kicked or go to jail. If they grab a co-worker, they get fired. But if they are touchy feely on a date, they could always spin it so that the burden of proof for sexual harassment is on you.
kendahke Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 I think you need to learn to screen guys better before dates. The fact that he was unable to read the situation and cease unwanted advances tells me that you might have been giving off certain vibes before or during the date. All of Ted Bundy's victims thought they screened him well before their dates, too. There is nothing in her post that would lead a reasonable person to that kind of a conclusion. This is a thinly veiled attempt at blaming her for him not keeping his hands to himself ON A FIRST MEETING without an invitation from her to proceed. It's not like this is his first time at relationships--he's divorced with kids, so he obviously understands something about people's personal space. Bet he understands it if someone did it to one of his kids. Unless you've been in a situation like this, speculation doesn't cut it. 3
kendahke Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 Actually also another really strong emotion I had was confusion. I really had a hard time understanding how a person could think it was appropriate to touch that way so early in meeting someone. But some of the posters on here have let me know that for some people, that feels ok. So that helps me understand the situation a bit more. You're going to have to be ruthless and not care quite so much about hurting their feelings, since by their actions, they're asking for it. 1
morrowrd Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) It's very presumptuous, and disrespectful. The first date is about talking, asking questions, getting to know each other. I tend to be old fashioned - and tend to feel that it's my job (the man's job) to make a girl feel secure when she's with me. A big part of that is being respectful of her space, her boundaries. If one has to go against the flow, say to hold hands, to kiss, to show affection - anything awkward, it's not meant to happen at that point. "Can I open the door for you?" is a for instance - and after she says yes, I would do it without asking the next time. "Is it ok to hold your hand?" - something more along the lines of what happened to you. In my case, she said yes and after that initiating hand holding was spontaneous - either she or I reaching for each other. Going on a first date and calling someone "babe" or invading space is a person who is socially retrograded with dating etiquette or first date etiquette even. Or there are simply those arrogantly presumptuous men who feel the girl is so damn lucky to be getting his attention, touching is owed, sex is owed. I watched the show "First Dates" - and it reminded me so much of that awkwardness that comes with a first date. And even on that show, I cringed watching guys assume that just because they were on a date, they had "rights" to the girl they were with. Entitlement issues - and guess what, they lost. To get the girl - guys can be stupid when it comes to that. Keeping the girl - guys can also be stupid with this too. That R word, is the key to it all. And that doesn't mean being whipped - treat her like you want to be treated. Again, as an old-fashioned man, I feel it's my job to make her feel special, safe, wanted, needed, valuable - and respected. I treat my girlfriend like a princess, even when I'm in a bad mood. Take nothing for granted. Don't take her for granted, don't take the relationship for granted. Edited June 14, 2017 by morrowrd 3
thefooloftheyear Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 Hum.... Personally if I was into someone, I would be okay with this sort of touching on a first date. BUT, the fact that you weren't, and he wasn't reading your body laugage to the point you had to verbally tell him to stop is troubling. GUY learn how to READ people. GALS be clear! (Which it sounds like you were) and assertive. I can't imagine losing sleep over such an incident, but I can see how this guy came off as tone deaf. Bolded.... Guy is an idiot and probably a rookie.... Any guy worth a shyt has to make sure the light is green(not yellow and def not red), before even attempting anything that involves getting in a woman's personal space...The body language is clear...But you can't be a meathead about it... TFY 3
authenticity Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 All of Ted Bundy's victims thought they screened him well before their dates, too. There is nothing in her post that would lead a reasonable person to that kind of a conclusion. This is a thinly veiled attempt at blaming her for him not keeping his hands to himself ON A FIRST MEETING without an invitation from her to proceed. It's not like this is his first time at relationships--he's divorced with kids, so he obviously understands something about people's personal space. Bet he understands it if someone did it to one of his kids. Unless you've been in a situation like this, speculation doesn't cut it. You're comparing a guy that tried to hold her hand on the first date to a once-in-a-generation, notorious serial killer is a little ridiculous, don't you think? This wasn't a response for victim blaming, it was a lesson in social awareness. I've observed dozens of women getting themselves in these situations and it's always because of setting improper boundaries. A lot of the times it's because they come off as too nice and can't read the types of guys they are interacting with. I always know when someone likes me more than I like them. And if that's the case, I draw the line early. and him being in a marriage and having kids doesn't at equal social skills. Sorry.
thefooloftheyear Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 You're comparing a guy that tried to hold her hand on the first date to a once-in-a-generation, notorious serial killer is a little ridiculous, don't you think? This wasn't a response for victim blaming, it was a lesson in social awareness. I've observed dozens of women getting themselves in these situations and it's always because of setting improper boundaries. A lot of the times it's because they come off as too nice and can't read the types of guys they are interacting with. I always know when someone likes me more than I like them. And if that's the case, I draw the line early. and him being in a marriage and having kids doesn't at equal social skills. Sorry. She went on a date....She wasn't riding a stripper pole... While id agree that some women are just a bit more savvy and "street smart" than others, I can't see any justification for the theory that being "too nice" leads guys on...Its up to us to honor a woman's pace at these things....They say that guys who were "raised right" already know this, but I can't say that for myself....For me, its just common courtesy.. TFY 2
RecentChange Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) So she should just get over some guy she barely knows violating her personal space? It's easy to be dismissive when you've never experienced it. . Oh believe me, I have experienced it. But I am real assertive, he would have known real quick. The nicey nice politeness goes immediately out the window if I do not feel like I am being heard or respected. Edited June 15, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator language ~T 3
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