Selaen Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 Hullo! After seeing so much really good, carefully thought-out advice given to others, I thought I'd reach out myself and seek counsel... 5 days ago, I got an email from a husband of a "friend" of mine, simply stating that he is the man who caught my husband groping his wife in front of their house, with his tongue down her throat. This was after our housewarming party, and he had walked her home. *insert disbelief* I immediately confronted my husband. He went from categorically denying it to "it could've happened" during that day (this was all through messaging). He slept in a hotel that night. The next day, we had a face-to-face "conversation" where he admitted it had happened, but that "she had attacked him". For three hours he was spinning this yarn until he admitted that he enjoyed it. But that he was drunk. Fast forward some more little lies. He blurts out that 8 months after we started dating (2 months before he proposed), he kissed someone else in a club. Turns out this wasn't true either; this kiss happened 6 months after we were married. He was drunk, she told him he was hot, they kissed. Now, let's get back to the most recent kiss... After a lot of tears and a false "we can do this", more things have come to light. Mainly that the kiss outside her house wasn't the first one. In fact, they had kissed when they were outside having a cigarette. This was the first time he had met her and supposedly didn't fancy her. She grabbed his shirt, told him he was hot and kissed him. They kissed for a bit, he pulled away, said "we shouldn't do this" and then continued kissing. Then they walked up the stairs to the flat where all our friends, his sister, and I were and pretended that everything was just hunky dory. She stuck around until there was just her and another guest left. He walked her home, because he knew that something else was going to happen. Even typing that out makes me so disgusted. Less the fact that it was a kiss; I could get over that. Had he told me straight away. But that I had to find out 5 weeks later from her husband? That they did it in our home? That he knew what he was doing was wrong and still went back for more? That he made the conscious (albeit drunk) decision to leave his wife in his home and go and do stuff with this absolute trollop. I am obviously so hurt. It's only been a few days and of course I'm allowed to be hurt. But I just don't know what the wisest thing to do is. We had issues in our marriage; he's said that he did it because they made him feel appreciated. I can comprehend that. I don't think I'm at fault in the slightest, but I can kind of see why you'd go for 1 errant kiss when drunk. What I can't comprehend is doing it in our home, deciding to go for more. Twice. With a "friend" of mine that he'd never met before. With someone he said he didn't even fancy. And I can't comprehend why through this all, I still love him and keep this tiny hope of reconciliation alive; is it just fear? I am not religious, but when I took those vows, I meant them; for better or for worse, until death do us part. By the way things are going it might be his. (totally joking by the way) What he has done afterwards; -physical signs of "trying" (cleaned the flat and then cleaned it again when I smashed all our plates and threw every single book and DVD on the floor) -full access to his social media and emails. Passcodes off his phone and laptop, removed all females from his Facebook. Gave me all the money in his bank account so he can't even go out to drink if he wants to. -booked a counselling session for tomorrow He is still hiding things. I have this feeling that things went further at some point but he's just afraid to admit. Or that this was an exit affair (even though he has denied that several times) but is just too afraid to say it. I'm just so confused over it all. Which is apparently quite a normal feeling. But I can't make heads or tails of it, and I'm not exactly and objective participant at the moment. The pre-DDay me would've told post-DDay me to run as fast as she can, but pre-DDay me didn't know how this would affect me.
Zona Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 Very sorry to hear about what has happened to you. Sounds like your story is really just starting to unfold. If I were you, I would want to find out the whole truth, so that I would know where to begin. It doesn't sound like he has been totally honest and truthful about it so far. Call his bluff and tell him that if he wants any chance of reconciliation, he has to tell you EVERYTHING. It's good you showed him how pissed you are. I can guarantee that got his attention, and hopefully snapped him back to reality. 1
Mrs. John Adams Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 It does sound like he is trying to appease you...but only you know if he is being sincere. YOu need to protect yourself. Go to a lawyer and find out all of your rights....and let him know that you have gone to a lawyer. He needs to know you are very seriuos about this. You need to talk to this other woman...and get her side of the story. It sounds to me like he is a serial cheater....and has no conscience about his actions. He is also a liar and takes no accountability for his actions. No one makes another person cheat....they alone make the decision. He needs to own what he has done I really am sorry you are here...the next few weeks will be tough for you. Stay strong. Talk to someone you trust....you need a friend.
aileD Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 I'm sorry this is happening. You can get through this together but only with complete honesty. And he's kinda proven he's trickle truthing over and over....so unfortunately I think he's done much more than that . Why would he wait until they were outside her house (where her husband is) to kiss? I'd be finding out what was happening on that walk home and if they did anything in the bushes along the way. 1
wmacbride Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 Your husband has an issue with both fidelity and honesty. He can overcome those hurdles, but it's going to take a lot of work on his part. Do you think he has that in him? 1
BreakOnThrough Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 Just move on, he's never going to change and neither will your perception of his behavior. Some people aren't meant to be married and that's ok. 1
somanymistakes Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 Yeah... this sounds like a case where there's going to turn out to be more to the story than just some kissing, and it'll be a good while before it all comes to light. I'm sorry this is happening to you. 2
Selaen Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 Thank you all. The other woman told me last week (I FB'd her as soon as I received the email from her husband) that a "drunken drool" did happen and that it's not a big deal. I've been emailing her husband as we both draw comfort from talking it over. She's not telling him ANYTHING and he is desperate to know the truth. She's in complete shutdown mode. Which in all fairness I would be if I had the audacity to walk into someone's home and made moves on their husband. Made out with their husband in their home. Nothing serious happened on the walk home. This I know for sure as our friend walked with them. However there was groping. As in her hands were on his butt, so this friend must have an inkling of what happened afterwards. The worst thing is, that I was so excited about the new flat. We bought furniture, redecorated, were planning on living there until we bought our own. And now all of that is tainted with betrayal. With the fact that he was sitting in there, with me right next to him, having had someone else's tongue in his mouth, knowing that he was going to have that again later on. He knows he has issues with lies, and he knows he has issues with talking about tough things (aka his version of why this happened. He didn't feel like he got affection at home, so when these trolls showed him affection, he just jumped at it. And he didn't feel like he could talk to me. He completely broke down yesterday. For the first time, I think he's starting to realise the magnitude of what he's done. It was his gran's birthday yesterday. She passed away tail end of last year. And he got upset by that, and then completely collapsed because he realised that he couldn't talk to me about it. Good. Now you're getting it. ALSO I'd totally get it if these women were stunning. If they were smarter than me, if the kisses had been totally amazing. But they were absolute trolls. Climbed-out-from-under-a-bridge trolls. Ones who'd go out one night, play the skin flute of someone that is not their husband, then continue drinking at someone's house warming. Who knows if there was a shower in between. I do love him, and I do feel that he is doing his best to show that he can be the man I deserve. But can he do that for years? Can he deal with the lack of trust? Can I get over the disgust I feel for him? I don't want to even touch him, let alone kiss/anything further. And through this all (I'm in the UK so there's a lot of fear out), I keep on thinking that worse things have happened. There are families who have lost their beloveds in the worst way possible, and I'm whinging about kisses. If they can get over it, I should get over this.
elaine567 Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 How old are you both? How long have you been married? Are there any kids involved here? 1
Selaen Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 How old are you both? How long have you been married? Are there any kids involved here? he's 29, I'm 31. Together for 7 years, married for three, no kids.
PegNosePete Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 I do feel that he is doing his best to show that he can be the man I deserve Wouldn't number 1 on the list be total and complete honesty? You mentioned that you think he's still holding back some of the story. I guarantee you are right about that. You don't know the tip of the iceberg yet. I would sit him down this evening and tell him that he is to tell you the full story, the whole truth RIGHT NOW otherwise you are going straight to a divorce lawyer first thing in the morning. If he says no or objects or argues or haggles, then just say "fine", end the conversation, and go to a lawyer in the morning. If he does choose the path of full honesty and tells you the full story, tell him that if you later find out that he has left out even the SMALLEST detail, then you will be going straight to a divorce lawyer, no matter what, even if it's 5 years from now, even if you're halfway to reconciling the marriage and building trust. If you find out he has lied yet again then you will go straight to divorce, do not pass go, do not collect £200. And through this all (I'm in the UK so there's a lot of fear out), I keep on thinking that worse things have happened. There are families who have lost their beloveds in the worst way possible, and I'm whinging about kisses. If they can get over it, I should get over this. Don't diminish your feelings. Yes some people have lost loved ones but that is no excuse for you to accept crappy behaviour form your husband. The two issues are totally unrelated so don't even go there.
Selaen Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 Thanks Pete (loving the username!) I do get that. But at the same time, I also get that when you get found out, your natural reaction is to minimise the damage. Like, I get it, I really do. I know that if I were in that situation, I'd try to weasel my way out of it. Seeing the pain I'd caused him would be horrible, so I wouldn't want to cause any more. I get it. But at the same time I don't get it. It's like my brain comprehends it but my body is in a flight mode. Like it makes total and utter sense but it's just horrendous. I'm hoping that speaking through this in various groups like this one, and talking to my counsellors (apparently I have two now! One online, one face-to-face) will help me figure out what I actually need to get over it.
Selaen Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 FWIW, I see myself in this thread http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/625928-critical-wife-possible-divorce-iphone-addiction And this is NOT MY FAULT. But I can see why he'd feel the need for attention. I don't see why he can't talk to me about it, but that's why he's going to counselling. You'd also think that I'd be all up in his sm, snooping away. Going through messages, pictures, all that... I don't. I did once, but no more. I know I could; I have the passwords. But I don't. Because I trust him with those (also because the one time. I did go full Jerry Kyle, all I saw was messages from him to ALL his friends saying what he'd done, and how he doesn't know what he needs to do now.) Which is so weird; clearly he's not trustworthy but at the same time he is?
PegNosePete Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) I also get that when you get found out, your natural reaction is to minimise the damage. Yes, that's correct. Minimizing, blame-shifting, gaslighting are all very common. But you need to tell him that this is absolutely NOT acceptable to you, and the full and honest truth is a non-negotiable condition of you continuing in the marriage. Seeing the pain I'd caused him would be horrible, so I wouldn't want to cause any more. But it is more painful to withhold the truth, only for it to come out later. And it always comes out, sometimes in a drunken argument a few years later, sometimes slowly one "fact" at a time. It's not fair to keep moving the reconciliation goal posts. Better to get it all over and done with at once, then you know what you're dealing with, and can begin the process of healing the trust. Without full truth there can be no trust, and your reconciliation will be built on a lie (of omission). the one time. I did go full Jerry Kyle, all I saw was messages from him to ALL his friends saying what he'd done, and how he doesn't know what he needs to do now.) Which is so weird; clearly he's not trustworthy but at the same time he is? Or he knows you've got the passwords and might look through it at any moment, so planted this message. Heh maybe I'm paranoid but when someone is in full minimize mode anything is possible. You should not trust one word he says at the moment. For all you know he could have a burner phone in his desk at work which he is still using to continue his affair, whilst giving you his "clean" phones to look through to your heart's content. Edited June 6, 2017 by PegNosePete
elaine567 Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 You'd also think that I'd be all up in his sm, snooping away. Going through messages, pictures, all that... I don't. I did once, but no more. I know I could; I have the passwords. But I don't. Because I trust him with those (also because the one time. I did go full Jerry Kyle, all I saw was messages from him to ALL his friends saying what he'd done, and how he doesn't know what he needs to do now.) Which is so weird; clearly he's not trustworthy but at the same time he is? Ever heard of a burner phone? Cheaters use them to communicate with the women they are chatting to, flirting with and sleeping with. Their "proper" phone is therefore always clean.
Selaen Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 Ever heard of a burner phone? Cheaters use them to communicate with the women they are chatting to, flirting with and sleeping with. Their "proper" phone is therefore always clean. I totally get what you mean, but he doesn't have one. That I am 100% sure of. Even if I am unsure of everything else, this is something different. -he couldn't afford one (I support us financially. If we were to break up, he'd have to move back in with his parents 500 miles away, quit his office job and go back to waiting tables as his salary just isn't enough to live off in our city. If I didn't pay for most of our bills, he'd have to save up for those nights out where he can go out and cheat. Thus he's had all his money taken off him and I've checked his bank statements. Nothing more dodgy there than ebay purchases of cameras he wasn't supposed to buy (cross-referenced with ebay records. God, I've gone full-on snoop mode!) -I've seen some comms on his current phone that could be interpreted as dodgy. We've discussed them, the meaning behind them and what it looks like to me. He's never stayed away at night, so I don't get the feeling that there is potential for affairs. He couldn't pay for hotels, etc and the only times that he's not been where I can't verify where he is at that point in time is when he's gone out and come back home drunk. So if dodgy things have happened, they would be on those nights. Kissing more than these 2 people? Probably. Actually sticking it in someone else on these nights? Don't know. My gut says that it's not likely, but I'm preparing myself for that revelation, no matter how much I want to be naive and think it couldn't happen. But I suppose if he can stick his tongue down my friends throat at our home, his level of fidelity is so low that anything could've happened.
elaine567 Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 I totally get what you mean, but he doesn't have one. That I am 100% sure of. Even if I am unsure of everything else, this is something different. He can't afford £0.79? - https://www.carphonewarehouse.com/alcatel/onetouch-10-16g.html#!colour=black&dealType=pg Burner phones are dirt cheap. He doesn't need an expensive phone if all he is doing is texting and messaging. NO paper trail and he can hide it at home or at work. Also it is interesting that you are the breadwinner - http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-economic-dependence-infidelity-20150529-story.html Many affairs are solely work based too, so he doesn't need any money and he doesn't need to stay out all night.
Ahurtgirl Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 I'd be very careful with believing that the other woman made moves on him. I was the OW and when the whole thing came to light, the ex married man I was with told his wife I made the first move and that I pursued him, which was completely false! He lied to save his marriage and most men do the same. You will make it through this if you want to. There are marriages that endured years long affairs that make it through it. 1
Selaen Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 I'd be very careful with believing that the other woman made moves on him. I was the OW and when the whole thing came to light, the ex married man I was with told his wife I made the first move and that I pursued him, which was completely false! He lied to save his marriage and most men do the same. You will make it through this if you want to. There are marriages that endured years long affairs that make it through it. I get what you're saying, however she is a complete troll and not at all his type, so I'd find it hard to believe that he was just so overcome with lust for her that he just had to snog her face off right where he needed to get caught. Her behaviour afterwards just reaffirms it (she's completely shut down with her partner, accusing me of telling lies when I told him that men had approached her in bars and she ignored them after he asked me what she'd told me [apparently nobody ever approached her and I told him that because I wanted to hurt her. Girl, you're a blip on the radar. And I told him that YOU REFUSED THEM.], completely skirting the subject with me and telling me that her husband is essentially a horrible human being. He seems really nice in his emails, but truth is somewhere in between.). The real truth is that I will never know for sure. And like my therapist said, at some point I'll need to decide if I believe the things he's saying or call it quits. I'm not ready to do neither.
Ahurtgirl Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 Also, the entire almost five years I was with my ex married man, we never stayed at a hotel or over night. It all took place during a 30 minute lunch break, three times a week and continued the entire almost five years. We had sex in his office, in bathrooms, in our cars, in the park, on a bench on a walking trail, basically any place we could find a little privacy. I did not work with him but we found a way to match up our lunch breaks. We talked for hours every single day and textend from the momen we woke up until the momen we fell asleep saying I love you. Burner phones are not traceable and are cheap. Just realize that he will lie to you about what all happened. My ex married man's wife was lied to over and over. I tried to tell her the truth but she chose to believe her husband. Don't be a fool like my ex married man's wife is. We have very good careers and we all had a major blow up when everything came to light. Your husband not having access to funds has nothing to do with whether or not he had sex or not. There are ways around that. You have plenty time to decide if you want to work on your marriage or not to. My only advise to you is that men are usually repeat cheaters. They will do everything they can to try and fix things only to cheat with a new person years down the road. Read what people who have learned from their spouses affairs at chumplady.com. It brings to light what happens in most marriages who try to reconcile. 1
wmacbride Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 op, only you know your husband.we don't, and we can only speculate through the filter of our own experiences. I will repeat that is does sound as if your husband has some issues with boundaries, self control and honesty. It can be come a major problem, and I'm wondering if he has seen the full impact of his actions show he knows the risks he could be taking should he decide to do this type of thing in the future. I don't know if he's still cheating or not. No one on here does.
Whoknew30 Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 I don't know your H but I do have experience with people that "every body wants them"...I grew up with all the men in my family cheating & every single one has the story "she threw herself at me", when caught by their wives. Yet, bc I'm one of the only blood female relatives, I watch them chase OW with my own eyes. If there's been more than one incident your H has been part of...the chance of him lying go up tremendously. Also remember, unless your H is powerful, rich & or extremely good looking, he's not going to go after hot women to cheat & or is he going to just happen to be in situations where women just attack him, with him not have putting some vibe out there...most times men go for less attractive when they cheat bc that's part of the control of cheating...just saying I wouldn't take everything at face value at this very moment. There's no rush for any final decisions...day by day, good luck.
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