Taking it to the Grave...leaving the rest of the iceberg hidden....

[QuietDan]

Coming to terms, acknowledging,.... accepting.... that I will probable end up in the "Taking it to the Grave" group of Waywards.

 

Personally, if I was the Betrayed Spouse, I would want to know.

Taking it to the grave, not at all something I like or want.

My wife, well, her personal philosophy is locked into taking it to the grave.

Knowing that about her, I, now reluctantly respect her desire in this area.

 

I have been visiting this site off and on for probable close to 7 or 8 years.

I finally got around to creating a profile around 3 years ago. I have really only been active here per-say the last 3 or 4 months.

 

My active wayward years were around 2006 through 2009. I became involved with a mostly online relationship with a few phone calls with one particular young lady in Nov.2006. I am not even sure I really remember exactly when my wife discovered that EA with probable a few weeks, possible a couple of months of correspondences that I didn't get around to deleting. If memory serves me correctly, it probable around this time of the year in 2008. So far, my first D-Day.

Needless to say... she confronted me the day she discovered my activities. As I recall I readily admitted to the fact that I was involved with an online EA.

Thinking about it now, she didn't ask for any details, didn't ask for any information than what she already had. I didn't volunteer any more than she asked.

The online affair didn't really end for another 6 months. It rapidly de-escalated. The frequency of contacts became fewer, the energy faded, the last few messaged with her occurred in Nov.2008.

Sometime during 2009, probable sometime about this time of the year, (I remember the weather was warm enough for short sleeves, I became involved in another woman that was much closer to me in age. That affair only lasted about a month or two. It was a PA with a lot of potential to turn into a serious EA as well. For the most part, it started out as an exit affair.

During that affair, I had to end it. I found out I just couldn't live life like that anymore. It seems like the, the OW seem to be reaching the same conclusion for her as well. Shortly after the end of that affair, my wife had reached her breaking point. Over the previous 20 years of marriage, I had grown accustom to her anger. The initial shock and anger period that lasted the first 6 to 12 months was water on a ducks back for me.

 

Then, about a year later, shortly after the second affair ended, she broke down and showed me her anguish and torment. It broke my heart to see and realize what I had done to her. Seeing that anguish in her eyes, hearing the pain and torment in her voice, and the words she said to me... forever painfully seared into my soul.

I could never do that to her again for any reason.

I live with so much guilt, regret, remorse, since that day.

Yes... the look in her eyes... the sound of her voice.... the words she said....haunt me.

 

The relationship that I have with my wife has had a lot of different challenges over the years. Recently we celebrated our 30th anniversary.

 

Over the last 8 years, more specifically, between the 3 year and 6 year post D1-Day, (D1-Day seems to be an appropriate term, there is a possibility for a D2-Day), my wife has mentioned that she doesn't want to know if I had any other affairs. I found out over the last few years, that she mentioned that she use to have a-lot of panic and anxiety attacks for the first 5 years post D1-Day. My wife doesn't like to discuss or talk about what little she knows of my wayward past and the cheating that she knows about. She has trickle truthed me on some of the problems and challenges that she has had as a result of my past behavior.

A few years ago she occasional mentioned some things would "Trigger" her anxiety and panic attacks. Eventually, I picked up on these comments and started to ask her about it. Eventually, she did talk to me about it a little bit.

It seems to be a private thing for her that she really doesn't want to discuss or share with me. I eventually figured out that she is uncomfortable talking about this with me and does not desire to have any conversations about this topic with me.

We worked through a lot of issues over the last 8 years. Been through some individual and marriage counseling. There is still a lot of work to be done, we both have a lot of issues.

However, she seems to be in a pretty good place these days. Well, compared to where we and she use to be on a number of issues regarding our relationship and marriage.

More or less she seems to be pretty happy and content where we are with our marriage over the last few years.

Her current philosophy is in line with focusing on the good and positive and building on it.

After becoming much more engaged with this site, following, posting, interacting with both the many Waywards and Betrayed Spouses here, I have really come to appreciate and values and principals that are expressed and discussed on this site.

 

As it is, I have pretty much reached the conclusion, that I need to respect my wife's expressed and inferred desire that I should keep the wayward history that she doesn't know, to myself and take it to the grave.

 

In order to avoid being a hypocrite, I find myself actively engaged in constantly monitoring what I say and how I respond to a wide variety of things. This is a constant issue for me both, on this site, and in general everyday life and everyday conversations.

 

For those that are regulars here, I found interacting with "Life lessons" to be particularly painful. Too many parallels, watching someone else make so many similar mistakes.

I found myself wanting to adopt the name "Life regrets". Somehow, seems more appropriate at times.

Edited June 5, 2017 by QuietDan

[Chica80]

Hi Dan., glad you finally posted more of your story.

 

I think for now, if she has told you she doesn't want to know more than you need to listen.

 

But what about you how can you connect and be open when there is this between you? Have you done individual counseling? I think that would be really helpful for you to sort through this. If she has told you she doesn't want to know and you are struggling then you should get prof help.

 

[commercial link redacted]

 

I read this the other day in a book: Daring Greatly

We cultivate love when we allow our most vulnerable and powerful selves to be deeply seen and known, and when we honor the spiritual connection that grows from that offering with trust, respect kindness, and affection.

Love is not something we give or get; it is something that we nurture and grow, a connection that can only be cultivated between two people when it exists within each of them- we can only love others as much as we love ourselves.

Shame, blame, disrespect betrayal, and the withholding of affection damage the roots from which love grows. Love can only survive these injuries if they are acknowledged, healed and rare.

 

don't know if these will help

Edited June 5, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[carhill]

Yeah, if I were in the M, I'd want to know. If it were an exit affair and the M is done, nah, not interested. I've had my moments of wondering post-M but they're fleeting and relegated to it don't matter in the big picture of life.

 

Thanks for sharing your story.

[mercy]

Is your mind/heart at peace?

 

What truths are you holding in that are destroying your peace?

 

Why are you a prisoner of the past?

 

You're free at any time to release those truths.

 

We have to ask ourselves, will this truth free me?

 

Beside me who will benefit from these truths?

 

Are you still fixated about the moment in the park? Are you wanting those feelings with your wife? So, make them with her, guide her. Those feelings you felt are not unique to one woman. Something was awakened in you, now use that knowledge to awaken it in your wife.

[Overtaxed]

I think this really depends on both individuals in the marriage and the type/nature of the A. I know a lot of guys who have an unspoken "don't ask/don't tell" arrangement at home. That implies that an A, if it happens, is expected to be a PA, and is expected to be a limited term thing. If it progressed into something more, I suspect the women would want to know.

 

For me, before my W's A, I would be the opposite. If it was an EA, and had not possibility of becoming a PA, and was not hurting her/she was still the same person at home.. I probably wouldn't want to know, especially not if it had already ended. A PA, no way, that I'd need to know about, no question.

 

So, I think it really depends on the people. I think a lot of women know, or at least suspect that men can really have NSA sex with someone and really not get "strings". It can really be just sex. And while that hurts them to the core, they don't feel their relationship is threatened, in fact, they might not actually want to have sex with their husbands, so, in some ways, it's "outsourcing" work that they don't want to do. But the minute is crosses into an EA, now the relationship is threatened, and now they need/want to know all the details.

 

Men aren't threatened by an EA as much because, well.. We all know the term "emotional tampon" right? Well, a pure EA, that's what the guy is setting himself up for. It's a losers position, assuming it never becomes a PA (an assumption that's terribly dangerous to make), the EA itself isn't that threatening to some men because it's a position all of us have been in before, a girls "friend" who she dumps on. Not exactly an enviable position.

 

Me, I needed to know it all (blended EA/PA). And I'm glad I didn't let it go, I needed to know, needed to see all of the iceberg. But if she'd just been flirting, and then it had stopped with no physical contact? I think I'd be find never knowing, in fact, I know I would be. Or would have been, now that she's shown the capacity for a PA, my view on all this has changed, I'd need to know. But before? Nope, keep that little infatuation to yourself, it's just going to hurt me, and I don't really care to be in pain over something that was just a bunch of sweet words.

[understand50]

QuietDan,

 

If that is what your wife wants, then it is for you to respect that. Not everyone wants the details. True remorse is giving what they need, and wholly doing so. In this case, she wants not to know all the details. Give her that. If later she wants to know late down the road, then let her what she wants. It is up to you to take this burden on and carry it. Know that you do it for love.

 

 

I wish you luck.....

[Ahurtgirl]

If she doesn't want to know, then respect her wishes. Seems pretty simple to do. Take it to your grave. I think the real problems that can come into play on details is if you would be diagnosed with some type of sexually transmitted disease in the future. It can take up to 20 years for some diseases to show. You would then have to give her those details and work through how your wife could also have to suffer with a disease if you spread it to her.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss. I would be the type to want all the details if I loved my husband, but if I wasn't necessarily in love but just simply content in our living arrangement and we lived more as companions, I wouldn't really care about details. If her feelings for you are not strong but she is content, then it is much easier to let the details go and keep moving forward. It's when the love and emotional attachment is extremely deep between a couple that there is more of a desire to want to know what happened between affair partners.

[elaine567]

She has realised that the only way she can get over this is to bury it deep and hope it disappears. YOU wanting to dig it up again is not what she wants as I guess it hurts too much.

Better to rug sweep and concentrate on the positives than have to face the demons again and again.

She has obviously decided to stay married, so I guess she sees little point in raking over those coals again and again.

I guess each time she finds out a little bit more about your affairs, it takes a long time for her to recover, so she has now learned just not to go there.

[Chica80]

If she doesn't want to know, then respect her wishes. Seems pretty simple to do. Take it to your grave. I think the real problems that can come into play on details is if you would be diagnosed with some type of sexually transmitted disease in the future. It can take up to 20 years for some diseases to show. You would then have to give her those details and work through how your wife could also have to suffer with a disease if you spread it to her.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss. I would be the type to want all the details if I loved my husband, but if I wasn't necessarily in love but just simply content in our living arrangement and we lived more as companions, I wouldn't really care about details. If her feelings for you are not strong but she is content, then it is much easier to let the details go and keep moving forward. It's when the love and emotional attachment is extremely deep between a couple that there is more of a desire to want to know what happened between affair partners.

 

 

I disagree with this. Maybe she doesn't want to know because she is conflict avoidant. She thinks if she ignores it, it will go away. Maybe she truly loves him deeply as well but is afraid and that's why she supresses. They both do.

 

Or maybe she is happy and content w status quo. Who knows, we don't know what she is thinking or feeling.

 

But what we do know is it bothers OP, or so it seems still has an effect so he should get help.

[Ahurtgirl]

Everyone loves differently. If she is conflict avoidant than it is probably why an affair happened in the first place. If you are married to someone who wants to talk about their feelings and emotions but you don't, there are going to be problems.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Only you know your wife. If she has told you she doesn't want to know...then respect her wishes.

 

But I caution you ...that this is NOT consent to continue to betray her.

 

I have a friend...whose wife told him she doesn't want to know. Ok great...so he has cheated many many times...

 

SO...does not wanting to know mean..one time? or two? or 10? I can't help help but think that if she really knew that her husband had cheated over and over again...she would divorce him.

 

Somehow I have a feeling that if you discussed it prior to an affair...and her speculative response was i would not want to know...it is very different than when infidelity has actually occured...

 

I have told john...if there is more to your story...if there are more infidelities that occured...at this pint...I do not want to know. Becaseu i dont think it would change any choice i have made to stay married. It might however...hurt me more than i want to suffer. and maybe this is where your wife is emotionally. Maybe at this point she doesn't want to talk about it anymore. We have 45 years invested in our relationship...I certainly dont want to start over now.

[QuietDan]

I disagree with this. Maybe she doesn't want to know because she is conflict avoidant. She thinks if she ignores it, it will go away. Maybe she truly loves him deeply as well but is afraid and that's why she supresses.

From my perspective, this is how I interpret things as well.

 

They both do.

It took me a long time to learn this skill/habit. I think I have adapted and adopted into this behavior over the years.

 

Or maybe she is happy and content w status quo. Who knows, we don't know what she is thinking or feeling.

Hmmmm.... yah....interesting point. I don't know if I really thought about it like this before. And, I often doubt how transparent she is and if I know what she is really thinking for a significant portion of our marriage.

 

But what we do know is it bothers OP, or so it seems still has an effect so he should get help.

 

Doesn't this count as help?

[Chica80]

Doesn't this count as help?

 

It's a start...

 

But everyone is bias because their advice comes from their own experience. What may be true for one person may not be true for another.

 

I give advice based on my experience what I have learned etc.

 

Not that a pro doesn't have bias, but if they are a true professional who is skilled they will help you get to the root of your problems. To help you get to a better place.

[road]

It is always the BS to control how much they want to hear

about their WS's affair.

[Popsicle]

My sister was a BW that didn't want to know. My best friend is a BW that doesn't want to know. This is how I know they exist. When they don't want to know, don't tell them.

[Popsicle]

 

But I caution you ...that this is NOT consent to continue to betray her.

 

 

Now that's the rub now, isn't it? From my small sample set, they did continue to cheat many times.

[Popsicle]

From what I can tell, some WS's want to tell. They're dying to tell even. They want to unburden themselves and have someone else take on the load to help them stay faithful.

[QuietDan]

From what I can tell, some WS's want to tell. They're dying to tell even. They want to unburden themselves and have someone else take on the load to help them stay faithful.

 

Well, there is that particular group.

My idea end game would involve working out a way to be significantly more open honest transparent. I would love to be able to have some extensive topical discussions regarding any and all topics. Initially, the thing that hooked me into this relationship with her when we were young , idealistic, and naive, was being in what I initially thought and percieved to be a completely transparent relationship. There for a while, it almost seem like the two of us were one together. It almost seemed like for awhile there wasn't any boundaries or fear involved when talking about any and all things. It's a broken relationship with no real intimacy. Topics of safe conversation limited to weather, daily activities, schedules, events. In 30 years we have ended up having significantly different view points regarding a vast array of world views and topics. Pretty much anything we don't agree on or have the same view point are electric fence land mine topics. The silence on this affair is the same silence for any conflict topic. Politics, religion, sex, global warming, the affair, taxes, the creation/evolution debate, all part of the same silence.

[waterwoman]

.

My idea end game would involve working out a way to be significantly more open honest transparent. I would love to be able to have some extensive topical discussions regarding any and all topics. Initially, the thing that hooked me into this relationship with her when we were young , idealistic, and naive, was being in what I initially thought and percieved to be a completely transparent relationship. There for a while, it almost seem like the two of us were one together. It almost seemed like for awhile there wasn't any boundaries or fear involved when talking about any and all things. It's a broken relationship with no real intimacy. Topics of safe conversation limited to weather, daily activities, schedules, events. In 30 years we have ended up having significantly different view points regarding a vast array of world views and topics. Pretty much anything we don't agree on or have the same view point are electric fence land mine topics. The silence on this affair is the same silence for any conflict topic. Politics, religion, sex, global warming, the affair, taxes, the creation/evolution debate, all part of the same silence.

 

Do you know Dan - I think that is the case with many relationships. H and I could talk about anything and everything to start with but that was partly at least because we wanted to agree because we were infatuated with each other - as we have grown up our views shifted and that is OK. I would say that H's views have fossilised a little and he would say that I have become an irresponsible idiot! There are topics we stay away from even though we fundamentally agree on the basics. Not because we disagree but because there is no point in rehashing the same old discussions again and again.

 

It seems to me that you need to find something new that you can share a passion for - H and I were talking about this the other day and have decided to take up surfing - properly with wetsuits and decent boards. Could you try thinking about that?