30 dates and still won't make out with me.

[salparadise]

You have spent way too many hours and way too much money and for what? You have been disrespected man... she is dating you and screwing other men? Wtf?

 

And telling him about phukking the other men, no less... while still refusing to even kiss him!

 

I don't know which is stranger, that a woman would do that to a guy, or that a guy would put up with it longer than the 3.2 seconds it takes to walk out the door.

 

It makes me kinda sad. Why is the mating dance so damn difficult?

[LivingWaterPlease]

If I was dating a guy who hooked up with nine other women while dating me and had three regulars I wouldn't be kissing him, either. Seems a lot of people think little of physical contact these days but there are a few of us left who still place significance on kissing and making out to say nothing of sex.

 

I know other women who tell me they feel the same, so know it's not just me. A close friend of mine wouldn't kiss her now husband when they were first dating until she was sure the relationship was going somewhere because she told me that she knew once she did she'd become deeply emotionally involved and she didn't want to be hurt if she became involved and he wasn't that interested in a long term relationship with her.

 

It's possible that she's concerned you're a player and isn't getting physical with you because she doesn't want to get too emotionally involved with you if you're just going to enjoy the physical and then move on. Or because she doesn't want to share you with another woman.

 

That would explain why she hooked up with the other guy and told you about it, too. She knows you're doing it and she's letting you know that she's keeping her options open, too. Also, from the relationship you describe you have with her you're both very into each other in ways that extend far beyond the physical. To seal with with physical while she still doesn't know if you have someone you prefer to her would mean she'd be risking a huge heartbreak by giving you her all, or even by just kissing you. Kissing you would MEAN something to her and she wants to be sure it MEANs something to you, too!

 

You gave her words last date (words that tell her she's important to you) now show her actions (tell her you're ready to be exclusive if you are, if you're not, don't tell her but don't expect physical stuff from her either) and dollars to donuts her behavior toward you will change.

 

Sounds as if this is a quality person you're dating, intelligent, fun, and careful with her affections because she has high self esteem. This is what most guys used to be interested in.

[elaine567]

Can you imagine a man telling a woman (oh, i just use women for sex who are disposable, your time will come.. i was just hurt from my last marriage)

 

Give me a break..

 

But that is exactly what he has been doing.

 

All of this I understand. I've been doing the same thing for the last year or so. Though I have been far more active in my sex life than her. I haven't been involved with anyone that I see any future with. Just lots of sex.

[starrynight4321]

Did you ever think to discuss her views on sex and exclusivity. She sounds to me more like an old-school lady who is waiting for you to bring it up. Everyone here seems to be freaking out over the fact that you haven't had sex, but if you've been on 30 dates and you're still sleeping with all these other people, she isn't stupid. She can pick up on that. Maybe she doesn't want to be your lady #9 because she has some self-esteem and self-respect?

 

If I'd put 30 dates into a guy and he was still seeing other women, having sex with other women, and not asking me to be exclusive or at least bringing it up, I'd assume he sees me as just another chick to put in his rotation. Nope.

 

Her telling you about the guy she slept with wasn't an accident lol. It was "I know you're sleeping around not making your intentions here known (outside of sex). Don't think I'm sitting around waiting on you buddy."

[neowulf]

All of this I understand. I've been doing the same thing for the last year or so. Though I have been far more active in my sex life than her. I haven't been involved with anyone that I see any future with. Just lots of sex. I did mention to her that this is feeling more like some sort of courtship than just a passing fling. She blushed big time. My gut is telling me that she has been hurt before and that I symbolize something more serious which is why she has been keeping her guard up. We shall see, she asked me out for a soccer match with the firm she works for tonight, looks like I will be meeting her co-workers.

 

The normal arch of a healthy adult relationship has stalled. This women issues, whatever they are, are hers to address. Not yours.

 

Consider the time and energy you've invested in this 'quasi' relationship, that shows next to no sign of actually evolving into the kind of passionate relationship you'd actually want.

 

At this point I'd be taking a good, long hard look in the mirror and asking myself; "Why am I willing to settle for so little from this woman? Why am I investing so much energy?".

 

It sounds to me you've been caught up so much in the act of acquisition that you've ceased to ask yourself the question; Is this relationship still worth chasing?

[neowulf]

I don't get why people just hover around waiting to see if anything happens. IMO everyone's time and effort should be considered as important.

 

It was an invested interest that never paid off....stop doing that. Just be upfront about your expectations, and if they don't match you dump and go.

 

Seriously, run a dating column Smackie9, that's spot on.

[todreaminblue]

So date "31" happened last night. Actually I did a recount and in all reality its only been a dozen or so dates. I went into the date last night assuming sex was not going to happen. In the end she invited me to her place but we would have to be real quiet as her roommate was home. I declined the offer telling her that I was not up for just a cuddle and when we finally "do it" it's not going to be quiet. That and it was 2:00am and we were both exhausted. Call me crazy but I decided to wait for a better time.

 

Her guard finally came down a bit last night. Still no heavy make out session but quit a bit more affection from her. We were at a concert but were sitting at a back table where we could talk a bit and I asked about this other guy and dug in a bit deeper as to her dating history over the last couple years. The other guy is already out of the picture, he turned into level 10 needy creep after a couple weeks, which seems to be a common thread. I straight up asked how he, and the few others she has been involved with, got through her bullet proof shield. Looking a bit ashamed she admitted that she used them just for sex. That since her marriage she has only jumped right into bed with men who were "disposable." Which surprisingly have not been as many as I would assume.

 

All of this I understand. I've been doing the same thing for the last year or so. Though I have been far more active in my sex life than her. I haven't been involved with anyone that I see any future with. Just lots of sex. I did mention to her that this is feeling more like some sort of courtship than just a passing fling. She blushed big time. My gut is telling me that she has been hurt before and that I symbolize something more serious which is why she has been keeping her guard up. We shall see, she asked me out for a soccer match with the firm she works for tonight, looks like I will be meeting her co-workers.

 

yeah...you have been a patient guy...most guys would have walked by now.....i understand shields.....all too well .....and that disposable thing....when you have some sort of trauma or been hurt badly feeling strong feelings for someone can be the ultimate threat to those shields....its the scariest situation out......its a betrayal by your own heart.....whre you are trying to work at keeping those defences strong they begin to disintegrate from the inside and the internal struggle to not let those guards be breached is a war i tell you....what i do know is when they are breached and down though and the guy is in ..the walls go back up again...like a cocoon..the sex will be intense..your own little world....i know because i had this with my ex.....

 

multiple trauma and i am the way i am...most guys cant handle me....but im not meant for most guys..takes a special guy to know me.....the difference with me is ...i forgo meaningless ex(freudian slip) i meant sex.......traumatizes me more....and i know what feels right and what doesnt...meaningless sex isnt my swag.....i have to love the guy really to go that final step.....i learned that over years....i want that special guy to love me enough to marry me..then ill give him intensity..

 

in a way ...my guards are there for the guy to first show me ..he is worth what i have to offer and if could ever live up to what he has to offer...i like to count my ducks..i have a lot of ducks...and half of those ducks ...are if i am right for them..........and most importantly that its a long term thing....i dont date often.......

 

what i would suggest is you wait dont push her for sex but wait until she is ready and makes her move...you will know when its right.......if you cant wait leave her soon....sounds like she is invested in you and its scaring the hell out of her...been there done that...to be truthful i feel she is probably worth the wait...but thats my bias.....being a multi iron shielded woman myself...i feel you should really consider what you want from this woman...and if it is a challenge thing about having sex with her now.......dont go there...you will only hurt her..and that wouldnt be right....would it?......deb

Edited June 11, 2017 by todreaminblue

[thefooloftheyear]

So date "31" happened last night. Actually I did a recount and in all reality its only been a dozen or so dates. I went into the date last night assuming sex was not going to happen. In the end she invited me to her place but we would have to be real quiet as her roommate was home. I declined the offer telling her that I was not up for just a cuddle and when we finally "do it" it's not going to be quiet. That and it was 2:00am and we were both exhausted. Call me crazy but I decided to wait for a better time.

 

Her guard finally came down a bit last night. Still no heavy make out session but quit a bit more affection from her. We were at a concert but were sitting at a back table where we could talk a bit and I asked about this other guy and dug in a bit deeper as to her dating history over the last couple years. The other guy is already out of the picture, he turned into level 10 needy creep after a couple weeks, which seems to be a common thread. I straight up asked how he, and the few others she has been involved with, got through her bullet proof shield. Looking a bit ashamed she admitted that she used them just for sex. That since her marriage she has only jumped right into bed with men who were "disposable." Which surprisingly have not been as many as I would assume.

 

All of this I understand. I've been doing the same thing for the last year or so. Though I have been far more active in my sex life than her. I haven't been involved with anyone that I see any future with. Just lots of sex. I did mention to her that this is feeling more like some sort of courtship than just a passing fling. She blushed big time. My gut is telling me that she has been hurt before and that I symbolize something more serious which is why she has been keeping her guard up. We shall see, she asked me out for a soccer match with the firm she works for tonight, looks like I will be meeting her co-workers.

 

Sounds like she really isn't into you in a romantic way, but she's using you for an emotional ego boost..."She let her guard down a bit"I is just a crumb so that you don't lose interest entirely...No woman i've ever known would hold out that long....in fact they would have ditched you for not taking them down by this point...

 

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if she has screwed some guys while she is "dating" you...You just aren't sexually appealing to her...I wouldn't be surprised if she actually gives you some pity sex, so that you keep chasing that carrot...Or who knows, if she runs out of options, maybe she'll settle for you....Mr Old Reliable....

 

Now, maybe I am wrong here, lets face it, we only can glean from what you post...I don't think so....

 

Id never let this happen, but If I were you, id challenge her on it....Flat out ask her if she gets wet when she sees you...Don't just ask if she likes you, that doesn't mean shyt...I like a lot of things....Look her in the eyes and try to find out what's going on...

 

You may wind up with the prize here....but do you really want to be the fallback option?? Thats what its looking like, man...

 

TFY

[Sweetfish]

I know other women who tell me they feel the same, so know it's not just me. A close friend of mine wouldn't kiss her now husband when they were first dating until she was sure the relationship was going somewhere because she told me that she knew once she did she'd become deeply emotionally involved and she didn't want to be hurt if she became involved and he wasn't that interested in a long term relationship with her.

 

It's possible that she's concerned you're a player and isn't getting physical with you because she doesn't want to get too emotionally involved with you if you're just going to enjoy the physical and then move on. Or because she doesn't want to share you with another woman.

 

That would explain why she hooked up with the other guy and told you about it, too. She knows you're doing it and she's letting you know that she's keeping her options open, too. Also, from the relationship you describe you have with her you're both very into each other in ways that extend far beyond the physical. To seal with with physical while she still doesn't know if you have someone you prefer to her would mean she'd be risking a huge heartbreak by giving you her all, or even by just kissing you. Kissing you would MEAN something to her and she wants to be sure it MEANs something to you, too!

 

You gave her words last date (words that tell her she's important to you) now show her actions (tell her you're ready to be exclusive if you are, if you're not, don't tell her but don't expect physical stuff from her either) and dollars to donuts her behavior toward you will change.

 

Sounds as if this is a quality person you're dating, intelligent, fun, and careful with her affections because she has high self esteem. This is what most guys used to be interested in.

 

 

This is by far the craziest thing I have read on LS. :lmao:

The OP got played.. One thing is if she wasn't having sex with other men and another is giving it up freely to strangers and not kissing the guy like he is the plague.

 

This is called stick and carrot. The donkey keeps walking because the carrot should get closer the more you walk towards it. So you get endless work out of the donkey. IE: courting.

 

Just because you are a woman who holds her sexuality morally ... Does not mean other women do not exploit or use men using their sexuality. This is exactly what happened here.. that is what an orbiter is for.

 

 

Seems a lot of people think little of physical contact these days but there are a few of us left who still place significance on kissing and making out to say nothing of sex.

No, it seems a lot of women over value the price of intimacy and them selves and any REAL confident man will not hang around after 30 dates to a year to have sex or kiss you.

 

Not going to wait a year to find out having sex with you sucks or we are not compatible.

[LivingWaterPlease]

This is by far the craziest thing I have read on LS. :lmao:

The OP got played.. One thing is if she wasn't having sex with other men and another is giving it up freely to strangers and not kissing the guy like he is the plague.

 

This is called stick and carrot. The donkey keeps walking because the carrot should get closer the more you walk towards it. So you get endless work out of the donkey. IE: courting.

 

Just because you are a woman who holds her sexuality morally ... Does not mean other women do not exploit or use men using their sexuality. This is exactly what happened here.. that is what an orbiter is for.

 

 

 

No, it seems a lot of women over value the price of intimacy and them selves and any REAL confident man will not hang around after 30 dates to a year to have sex or kiss you.

 

Not going to wait a year to find out having sex with you sucks or we are not compatible.

 

Hmmm, wasn't factoring in that she is having sex with others. That does add a different dimension to the story.

 

But, my post was the craziest thing you've seen on LS? My turn to :lmao:

 

It's possible she values the OP whereas she doesn't the others.

 

Have to differ with you. There are real confident men who will wait more than a year to have sex. There are actually real confident men who will wait until marriage. This may not be part of your world but they are out there, they are valuable and they are top of the line!

[todreaminblue]

This is by far the craziest thing I have read on LS. :lmao:

The OP got played.. One thing is if she wasn't having sex with other men and another is giving it up freely to strangers and not kissing the guy like he is the plague.

 

This is called stick and carrot. The donkey keeps walking because the carrot should get closer the more you walk towards it. So you get endless work out of the donkey. IE: courting.

 

Just because you are a woman who holds her sexuality morally ... Does not mean other women do not exploit or use men using their sexuality. This is exactly what happened here.. that is what an orbiter is for.

 

 

 

No, it seems a lot of women over value the price of intimacy and them selves and any REAL confident man will not hang around after 30 dates to a year to have sex or kiss you.

 

Not going to wait a year to find out having sex with you sucks or we are not compatible.

 

 

another mans crazy is another woman's sanity......living water has hardly ever in my time on ls shown anything but thoughtful high intelligence....and i am so inclined to back that post you call crazy post 100 per cent..and i do ....validate his thoughtfulness...for his assumations....and being closest to the possible mark in regards to ops opening post....for which really none of us really know the truth or her do we...just blind judgments......we can only guess......deb

[thefooloftheyear]

Have to differ with you. There are real confident men who will wait more than a year to have sex. There are actually real confident men who will wait until marriage. This may not be part of your world but they are out there, they are valuable and they are top of the line!

 

Maybe, but after all this time just a cuddle and a peck on the cheek??? C'mon now...

 

How old are these folks again??? Has there been any mention of religious reasons?? I don't think so...

 

TFY

[Sweetfish]

Hmmm, wasn't factoring in that she is having sex with others. That does add a different dimension to the story.

 

But, my post was the craziest thing you've seen on LS? My turn to :lmao:

 

It's possible she values the OP whereas she doesn't the others.

 

Have to differ with you. There are real confident men who will wait more than a year to have sex. There are actually real confident men who will wait until marriage. This may not be part of your world but they are out there, they are valuable and they are top of the line!

 

 

You mean like Alicia Keys? Who told her man she will not have sex with him unless he waited a year because her body is too "beautiful" (qoute) got married and seperated from him in less than 6 months... then proceed to not subject the next guy to such crap?

 

Please... no guy with options is going to play such a game and in the end your using sex as a tool. Point blank. Sex is not going to weed out a player.. a player will play.. he will have sex with other women while your idle. Its a fools game and the only reason why many women play this game is because they are not fully into the guy and still explorering other men using sex as a bargining chip.. IE a Harem of orbiters.

 

All it takes is for him to say something you dont agree with "I don't like cats" "im a republican" "I like video games" and you will "extend" this no sex policy. As long as you're not "together" you are in the "clear" so 9 months down the line his "investment" in you may yield no "returns"

 

And you are perfectly fine with that.. because that is what your mother told you to do.

 

You know what? You have confirmed our sexual compatiblity. That like a camel, you can go without water for days. I will not subject my self to that. F that...

 

 

The only thing you are testing is how long is he is going to supress his sexual desire at your expense while all your needs get taken care of.. as you get courted around, fine dining, movies, and drinks.

 

Question? How many lonely dinners would you subject your self to? Eventually, you are going to want to have dinner with that guy right or you will move on to the next right?? So what makes you so much better?

 

Lord... I wish more guys can see this!

 

I dont know if you miss that biology course... but a man's testicles get filled with semen and eventually he will need to release this semen and ideally he wants to do it with a woman.

 

This is biological!

 

Any self respecting guy will move on to the next woman.. with the exception of if its in your religion to not have sex before marriage.

 

Your reason for not having sex is because its you that can not control ones feelings after having sex. Your safe guards are your safe guards.. but more than likely if eventually we are not kissing or having sex we are friends and friends we will be and you can play your cards with some other guy..

 

in my opinion.. the older you get the more its slim pickings and its worse for women as they get older because your trump card "sexuality" cannot keep men around and not for a year... lol The quality of man you can pull will reduce.. unless you defeated age, crows feets, saggy boobs and biologically blessed and not many average women are not biologically blessed.

[Sweetfish]

another mans crazy is another woman's sanity......living water has hardly ever in my time on ls shown anything but thoughtful high intelligence....and i am so inclined to back that post you call crazy post 100 per cent..and i do ....validate his thoughtfulness...for his assumations....and being closest to the possible mark in regards to ops opening post....for which really none of us really know the truth or her do we...just blind judgments......we can only guess......deb

 

 

 

Thats fine you can back up a woman thats having sex with other men in less amount of dates.

 

The woman is having 30+ dates at the mans expense.

 

Will not even kiss him.

 

Proceed that without knowing this woman that she is fun intelligent, and what confident men seek.

 

That is what you're backing and no guy should subject him self to this as no woman should subject her self to this.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Sweetfish

[planb1973]

There seems to be some bashing of this woman's having sex with someone else while going on dates with me. I can tell you that this last guy she was with briefly was the first in almost a year! And the guy before that was almost a year before that. Why she doesn't seem to want to be sexual with me I don't know. It could be a number of factors, my looks I'm sure are not one of them. When we were out at the concert and she was telling me about her recent "experience" I told her she was making me jealous. She looked right at me and replied, with some sternness, that it goes both ways and something about me and my couple hundred women I've got. I laughed that one off for the absurdity of me having a couple hundred women. I can tell you that my count up till I was 40 was 4. I have been relatively single for over a year now and discovered my desirability with women, and yes have been taking full advantage of that over the last couple years. Its been fun but I do seek something more committed.

 

Question about exclusivity. Does anyone actually discuss being exclusive before sleeping with someone? She could very well not be escalating things due to thinking she would just be another notch in my bed post. And why am I the only guy she tags in FB photos. I did a full stalking of her page a while ago and there is no mention ever of any other guy. Just some extra food for thought.

[LivingWaterPlease]

Maybe, but after all this time just a cuddle and a peck on the cheek??? C'mon now...

 

How old are these folks again??? Has there been any mention of religious reasons?? I don't think so...

 

TFY

 

I know it's a long time to go without a kiss, I agree and have never waited for thirty dates but I have in retrospect wished I had! For me, it takes time to learn about a person's character. Some of the charismatic guys can rope me right in if I dive in with making out and then I'm blind to character defects (such as lying, cheating, drinking or drug problems, etc.) The less physically I become involved the more clearly I can evaluate if the person is worth giving of myself physically to.

 

This isn't written from a religious perspective, but a common sense one.

 

I think it may be different for a woman (mature, I didn't think about these things when I was immature, just played to the hormones and paid for it) than a man. Many women bond emotionally with a man during even the simplest, such as a kiss, physical expressions whereas many men can play with a woman and move on, not having bonded emotionally or even realize what has happened to a woman during the process which leaves a woman in pain, believe it or not! Happens all the time.

[starrynight4321]

There seems to be some bashing of this woman's having sex with someone else while going on dates with me. I can tell you that this last guy she was with briefly was the first in almost a year! And the guy before that was almost a year before that. Why she doesn't seem to want to be sexual with me I don't know. It could be a number of factors, my looks I'm sure are not one of them. When we were out at the concert and she was telling me about her recent "experience" I told her she was making me jealous. She looked right at me and replied, with some sternness, that it goes both ways and something about me and my couple hundred women I've got. I laughed that one off for the absurdity of me having a couple hundred women. I can tell you that my count up till I was 40 was 4. I have been relatively single for over a year now and discovered my desirability with women, and yes have been taking full advantage of that over the last couple years. Its been fun but I do seek something more committed.

 

Question about exclusivity. Does anyone actually discuss being exclusive before sleeping with someone? She could very well not be escalating things due to thinking she would just be another notch in my bed post. And why am I the only guy she tags in FB photos. I did a full stalking of her page a while ago and there is no mention ever of any other guy. Just some extra food for thought.

 

Dude!! I wish you'd said this earlier. Please re-read my earlier post! This is 1000% an exclusivity issue. The whole "it goes both ways" and "hundreds of women," thing IS SCREAMING "I like you for a relationship but I'm not going to be another notch in your bedpost. So if you're sleeping around, I'll do it too with men I'm not actually interested/invested in." It's obvious. And yes, lots of people discuss exclusivity before sleeping with someone. Some people don't because they don't care. Some people do. Clearly, this lady cares with you because she likes you more than just for sex. I don't think she's going to sleep with anybody she actually likes until intentions are known. She clearly likes you but sees you as some kind of playboy. The FB thing further proves my point. She likes you for a relationship but doesn't want to be another one of your toys!! If you don't like her enough to be exclusive then move on completely. You should know by now.

[LivingWaterPlease]

There seems to be some bashing of this woman's having sex with someone else while going on dates with me. I can tell you that this last guy she was with briefly was the first in almost a year! And the guy before that was almost a year before that. Why she doesn't seem to want to be sexual with me I don't know. It could be a number of factors, my looks I'm sure are not one of them. When we were out at the concert and she was telling me about her recent "experience" I told her she was making me jealous. She looked right at me and replied, with some sternness, that it goes both ways and something about me and my couple hundred women I've got. I laughed that one off for the absurdity of me having a couple hundred women. I can tell you that my count up till I was 40 was 4. I have been relatively single for over a year now and discovered my desirability with women, and yes have been taking full advantage of that over the last couple years. Its been fun but I do seek something more committed.

 

Question about exclusivity. Does anyone actually discuss being exclusive before sleeping with someone? She could very well not be escalating things due to thinking she would just be another notch in my bed post. And why am I the only guy she tags in FB photos. I did a full stalking of her page a while ago and there is no mention ever of any other guy. Just some extra food for thought.

 

 

Yes, many people do. I definitely wouldn't consider sleeping with someone I wasn't exclusive with. And, though I don't agree with her sleeping with someone while dating you, I do see how she may attach a certain logic to it and believe both of you are really into each other in many ways and she is protecting herself by not becoming physical with you. The other guy she slept with, well...she knew he was no threat to become emotionally attached to so felt safe in doing so (though I don't agree with living this way).

 

From all you've posted, this is how I see it: she is waiting to be exclusive with you before getting physical with you so that she won't get hurt. She likes you A LOT and has told you so. She is protecting herself from bonding with you completely until she is sure you won't use her and toss her aside.

 

Right now she can walk away and not be hurt too badly. Once she begins getting physical with you, as a woman, she will probably bond to you emotionally. I think she doesn't want to bond emotionally to you while you are sleeping with other women.

 

Also, it's very possible at least one, if not more, of the three regulars you're hooking up with, will be badly hurt when you move on to one permanent relationship with someone if it isn't her. Men often may not realize the bonding women go through when they share themselves physically with a man and then the pain that results when they are left behind. If they did, it's possible they wouldn't be as cavalier about sleeping with women so easily. I don't believe they set out to hurt women, they just may not understand them.

[LivingWaterPlease]

You mean like Alicia Keys? Who told her man she will not have sex with him unless he waited a year because her body is too "beautiful" (qoute) got married and seperated from him in less than 6 months... then proceed to not subject the next guy to such crap?

 

Please... no guy with options is going to play such a game and in the end your using sex as a tool. Point blank. Sex is not going to weed out a player.. a player will play.. he will have sex with other women while your idle. Its a fools game and the only reason why many women play this game is because they are not fully into the guy and still explorering other men using sex as a bargining chip.. IE a Harem of orbiters.

 

All it takes is for him to say something you dont agree with "I don't like cats" "im a republican" "I like video games" and you will "extend" this no sex policy. As long as you're not "together" you are in the "clear" so 9 months down the line his "investment" in you may yield no "returns"

 

And you are perfectly fine with that.. because that is what your mother told you to do.

 

You know what? You have confirmed our sexual compatiblity. That like a camel, you can go without water for days. I will not subject my self to that. F that...

 

 

The only thing you are testing is how long is he is going to supress his sexual desire at your expense while all your needs get taken care of.. as you get courted around, fine dining, movies, and drinks.

 

Question? How many lonely dinners would you subject your self to? Eventually, you are going to want to have dinner with that guy right or you will move on to the next right?? So what makes you so much better?

 

Lord... I wish more guys can see this!

 

I dont know if you miss that biology course... but a man's testicles get filled with semen and eventually he will need to release this semen and ideally he wants to do it with a woman.

 

This is biological!

 

Any self respecting guy will move on to the next woman.. with the exception of if its in your religion to not have sex before marriage.

 

Your reason for not having sex is because its you that can not control ones feelings after having sex. Your safe guards are your safe guards.. but more than likely if eventually we are not kissing or having sex we are friends and friends we will be and you can play your cards with some other guy..

 

in my opinion.. the older you get the more its slim pickings and its worse for women as they get older because your trump card "sexuality" cannot keep men around and not for a year... lol The quality of man you can pull will reduce.. unless you defeated age, crows feets, saggy boobs and biologically blessed and not many average women are not biologically blessed.

 

You seem a little angry, but maybe you're just frustrated, or maybe just intense! No problem with either, my friend! Been there myself.

 

In response to the bolded. Not really. It's slim pickings of men who are shallow and only into the physical, which isn't necessarily a bad thing! Believe it or not, I know a woman (a friend) who has had a couple of marriage proposals from men she has never even held hands with. One a Dr. and the other an Attorney. Other proposals from those she's never slept with. There's another world out there, my friend. And it's good; the best! Btw, wishing you the best, too! We are on way different wave lengths and yet, I do see where you're coming from!

[Sweetfish]

There seems to be some bashing of this woman's having sex with someone else while going on dates with me. I can tell you that this last guy she was with briefly was the first in almost a year! And the guy before that was almost a year before that. Why she doesn't seem to want to be sexual with me I don't know. It could be a number of factors, my looks I'm sure are not one of them. When we were out at the concert and she was telling me about her recent "experience" I told her she was making me jealous. She looked right at me and replied, with some sternness, that it goes both ways and something about me and my couple hundred women I've got. I laughed that one off for the absurdity of me having a couple hundred women. I can tell you that my count up till I was 40 was 4. I have been relatively single for over a year now and discovered my desirability with women, and yes have been taking full advantage of that over the last couple years. Its been fun but I do seek something more committed.

 

Question about exclusivity. Does anyone actually discuss being exclusive before sleeping with someone? She could very well not be escalating things due to thinking she would just be another notch in my bed post. And why am I the only guy she tags in FB photos. I did a full stalking of her page a while ago and there is no mention ever of any other guy. Just some extra food for thought.

 

 

Well looks like Karma is a B.

 

You cant have your cake and eat it too.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Sweetfish

[Sweetfish]

You seem a little angry, but maybe you're just frustrated, or maybe just intense! No problem with either, my friend! Been there myself.

 

Absolutely a false statement. I am clearly showing the other men here "the game" and I will continue to do so. The game of waste ones time and the guy not having the balls to walk. If you are not giving a man sex within 6 months it means usually two things... You are not good at it or your not into him. Hell a kiss? Are you serious... I will tell you straight up I have no desire to be with you and if you call me up for going out... expect that its dutch.

 

You are confusing morals with exploiting and the OP deserves this exploitation as he should have walked months ago.

 

In response to the bolded. Not really. It's slim pickings of men who are shallow and only into the physical, which isn't necessarily a bad thing! Believe it or not, I know a woman (a friend) who has had a couple of marriage proposals from men she has never even held hands with. One a Dr. and the other an Attorney. Other proposals from those she's never slept with.

I wish you can see the grin on my face when I read this..

 

This is exactly my point: Using your sexuality as a TOOL and is that not shallow? It is slim picking for women as women usually will not date down in age, height, and hardly income.

 

Men do.. so as men get older they have a wider range of women as they will date women usually not based on height, income, educational background or age.

 

Its a buffet for women when they are young and its not when they are 40 or 50. That's just the reality and not every women is genetically blessed as not every man is blessed either....but the offset is resources and men do not care about a females resources...well not until he wises up and once he wises up he will lease likely to commit.

 

So who is really shallow?

 

What does a doctor and attorney have in common. They make money.

It has been noted statistically that doctors or individuals in the medical field cheat more often. So withholding sex for 6 months or a year does not define the fidelity of the relationship. Which leads to the next issue.. power and wealth and the ability to attract younger and prettier women as you think sex/kissing/intimacy is not an important function in a relationship and hold onto it like a glorified stock...that keeps losing value and he will trade as soon as you go "camel" mode on him...thinking you can go without "water" for months and be in control. Thinking that he will be happy with walks in the park and dinners only... Guess again and the reverse is true.. Men need to maintain her needs as well...need it be dinners, flowers, and etc

 

This is not being shallow... this is about maintain his needs, while he maintain yours and it being mutual. You can't see that...because you want a relationship only based on what you think it should be.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Sweetfish

[LivingWaterPlease]

Absolutely a false statement. I am clearly showing the other men here "the game" and I will continue to do so. The game of waste ones time and the guy not having the balls to walk. If you are not giving a man sex within 6 months it means usually two things... You are not good at it or your not into him. Hell a kiss? Are you serious... I will tell you straight up I have no desire to be with you and if you call me up for going out... expect that its dutch.

 

You are confusing morals with exploiting and the OP deserves this exploitation as he should have walked months ago.

 

I wish you can see the grin on my face when I read this..

 

This is exactly my point: Using your sexuality as a TOOL and is that not shallow? It is slim picking for women as women usually will not date down in age, height, and hardly income.

 

Men do.. so as men get older they have a wider range of women as they will date women usually not based on height, income, educational background or age.

 

Its a buffet for women when they are young and its not when they are 40 or 50. That's just the reality and not every women is genetically blessed as not every man is blessed either....but the offset is resources and men do not care about a females resources...well not until he wises up and once he wises up he will lease likely to commit.

 

So who is really shallow?

 

What does a doctor and attorney have in common. They make money.

It has been noted statistically that doctors or individuals in the medical field cheat more often. So withholding sex for 6 months or a year does not define the fidelity of the relationship. Which leads to the next issue.. power and wealth and the ability to attract younger and prettier women as you think sex/kissing/intimacy is not an important function in a relationship and hold onto it like a glorified stock...that keeps losing value and he will trade as soon as you go "camel" mode on him...thinking you can go without "water" for months and be in control. Thinking that he will be happy with walks in the park and dinners only... Guess again and the reverse is true.. Men need to maintain her needs as well...need it be dinners, flowers, and etc

 

This is not being shallow... this is about maintain his needs, while he maintain yours and it being mutual. You can't see that...because you want a relationship only based on what you think it should be.

 

So glad you're not angry. If you'll reread you'll notice I didn't say you're angry, I said you SEEM angry. And some of your text does seem angry to me. But, anyway, glad you're grinning! It seems good to me to enjoy discussions like this in an amiable way!

 

The friend didn't date the Dr. and Attorney. So no withholding was involved. They had observed her over a period of time from "afar" (same general social group, not close friends) and decided that was the kind of woman they wanted to marry. There was a proposal on the first date and the other proposed on the phone never having dated at all. Just after being friends and observing behavior. This doesn't seem to me to be common way of doing things and I'm not advocating not dating before choosing a mate. Just making the point that not everyone feels the need to test out the sexuality of another before becoming exclusive. Many people are probably like you describe you believe all to be and how you think folks live so can see why this all seems unlikely to you.

 

I think I might have said, but maybe I didn't, not going to take time to go back and check it out, "There's another world out there, a better one, at least for women!" Has nothing to do with using sexuality as a tool or withholding. Has to do with not being used as a tool yourself and not using someone else as a tool; with saving your sexuality to enjoy with someone who values it and will stay with you 'tll death do you part. Then a highly sexual woman can lavish her charms on her man knowing he's committed. And, yes, there are men who commit and don't cheat and who are looking for such a woman. And there are highly sexual women who are able to wait until the time is advantageous for both her and her man to enjoy each other.

 

There is much more to write to address your post but since we're so far apart on everything I'm going to say let's agree to disagree because it's getting to be a thread jack and not really bringing us closer in understanding. You seem to be a person of great value and if this was the topic of the thread I would definitely continue volleying with you! Wishing you the best!

Edited June 12, 2017 by LivingWaterPlease

[todreaminblue]

Thats fine you can back up a woman thats having sex with other men in less amount of dates.

 

The woman is having 30+ dates at the mans expense.

 

Will not even kiss him.

 

Proceed that without knowing this woman that she is fun intelligent, and what confident men seek.

 

That is what you're backing and no guy should subject him self to this as no woman should subject her self to this.

 

 

see ops answering post below your reply to mine.....

 

i dont even know if they are actually exclusive no talk has been mentioned....i think it is strange that she had sex with someone other than the op...but....i dont know the girl or her reasoning or why she is the way she is...i actually dont believe in sex before marriage anymore...i have been celibate fora long time....and im an ex hooker with five kids unmarried who happens to love sex.....so strange is normal for me

 

i just think none of us really know whats going on and the op should have a discussion..... and yep i feel living water had some really valid thoughts....deb

Edited June 12, 2017 by todreaminblue

[LivingWaterPlease]

planb1973, interested to find how it all turns out for you and your girl!

[todreaminblue]

I know it's a long time to go without a kiss, I agree and have never waited for thirty dates but I have in retrospect wished I had! For me, it takes time to learn about a person's character. Some of the charismatic guys can rope me right in if I dive in with making out and then I'm blind to character defects (such as lying, cheating, drinking or drug problems, etc.) The less physically I become involved the more clearly I can evaluate if the person is worth giving of myself physically to.

 

This isn't written from a religious perspective, but a common sense one.

 

I think it may be different for a woman (mature, I didn't think about these things when I was immature, just played to the hormones and paid for it) than a man. Many women bond emotionally with a man during even the simplest, such as a kiss, physical expressions whereas many men can play with a woman and move on, not having bonded emotionally or even realize what has happened to a woman during the process which leaves a woman in pain, believe it or not! Happens all the time.

 

 

 

i find kissing much closer an intimacy than sex itself.....theres reasons for this....one being i guess stemming from childhood....abuse...my abuser never kissed me had sex with me yeah, never kissed, when i was an escort i refused to kiss clients ..its the only one area i could keep for myself was ...my kisses and being kissed.....i told a guy once when i was on a first date look i havent kissed anyone in a while because i knew he was angling his body for one ......and he proceeded to feel he should show me how easy it was like riding a bike he said....to stick his tongue down my throat and slobber over my lips....hence...one date only.....

 

kissing is intimate and to me ...really special...because its the only thing i have to really keep for me and the man i wish to stay with..me kissing someones cheek is special or them kissing mine is special and for friends and family i trust and love.....who love me...and guys might find me strange....but ....i cant say many are disappointed if they show patience and give me time to feel....secure....and that i feel they are with me like i am with them........

 

and like you i have a feeling it might be special for ops lady too.....deb