TrustingFool Posted August 3, 2005 Posted August 3, 2005 Ok, so I have a friend that is indeed involved in an affair, as much as I have talked to her about it she won't end it. I feel sad for her. But I have a few questions for all of you here so maybe I can better advise her and get through to her. The guy she is involved with has said that he loves and cherishes his wife deeply and has no intentions of leaving her. But he has also told Melanie that he is not turned on by his wife anymore because of weight issues, his wife is 8 1/2 months pregnant. He has also said that his wife is more uptight about sexual things than my friend Melanie is. What I don't get is how could he be in love and cherish his wife if he thinks that way about her, and how can someone be in love with two people at once? This doesn't make sense to me and it never will but I was looking for insights. Serious input only please. Thanks in advance. You guys helped me out and now I'm looking to help my friend out.
Outcast Posted August 3, 2005 Posted August 3, 2005 It is possible to be fond of two people at once but that doesn't mean that you follow through with it because to betray someone is to harm her. And if you love someone you don't wish to cause her harm. by his wife anymore because of weight issues, his wife is 8 1/2 months pregnant This drives me right up a wall. She doesn't have 'weight issues'! She's freaking PREGNANT! Cripes. What a jerk! Now I can't imagine how a man who thinks that way could be attractive to anybody. This is what puzzles me about women who fall for married men. These men aren't very nice people so what's the draw? If Melanie has such little self-esteem that she thinks she deserves only sloppy seconds instead of a real relationship with a man of her own, maybe she needs therapy. No self-respecting woman should settle for half (or less) of a man.
StillHurtin Posted August 3, 2005 Posted August 3, 2005 Originally posted by Outcast It is possible to be fond of two people at once but that doesn't mean that you follow through with it because to betray someone is to harm her. And if you love someone you don't wish to cause her harm. This drives me right up a wall. She doesn't have 'weight issues'! She's freaking PREGNANT! Cripes. What a jerk! Now I can't imagine how a man who thinks that way could be attractive to anybody. This is what puzzles me about women who fall for married men. These men aren't very nice people so what's the draw? If Melanie has such little self-esteem that she thinks she deserves only sloppy seconds instead of a real relationship with a man of her own, maybe she needs therapy. No self-respecting woman should settle for half (or less) of a man. I have to agree w/ Outcast. This mm is a class A jerk!!! Not only to his W but to Melanie. All he is doing is using Melanie for a piece of a$$. His W no longer turns him on b/c she is pregnant (which is sad in itself b/c the men I know and my H find their W's gorgeous when they are pregnant w/ their baby). He has no respect for Melanie, nor his W. All he cares about right now is his d!ck. What kind of woman wants to be used just for sex? Someone w/ a very low self-esteem is all I can think of. Melanie has no self respect to let a man use her for a roll in the hay.
newbby Posted August 4, 2005 Posted August 4, 2005 anyone can throw up an obvious reason why somebody would want to be in an affair with a mm, the truth is that it is far more complicated than this. self esteem may have something to do with it, sure. it can also be a fear of commitment caused by any number of things. when somebody is afraid of a normal committed relationship, or maybe not even afraid they may just not want one at this time in their lives, then they will very likely get lonely and mm comes along and pursues them and charms them. they may on the surface appear to fall for what the mm says, lies etc, but deep down they know that the mm is unnavailable. most of these things happen on a subconcious level. some people that get involved are truly conned by the mm, they really believe that his marriage is over and he is leaving, this is helped by the mm looking as though he is in love with them and sometimes being in love with them. by the time the mm comes out with the truth, that he is never going to leave his wife, but she doesnt do it for him anymore, the ow is shocked but doesnt want to give him the credit for conning her, so she may say she is happy with the situation for a little while, until she deals with this. also there is alot of denial going on. nobody wants to accept that they are being used. or it can be a complex mass of all of these things. maybe other things aswell, i dont know. every ow works through these things differently, i think the thing that helped me the most was finding this site, not just because of the advice although most of it was excellent, but because i found that i wasnt alone, that many fabulous, beautiful, intelligent women were in the same situation as i was. the best way to help anybody involved with a mm, is to not judge them, and to show that you love them anyway.
newbby Posted August 4, 2005 Posted August 4, 2005 i just realised, you asked why does the mm have affairs, not why does the ow fall for mm. that is something i have never worked out i'm afraid. with all mm, it is about ego, no doubt about it. i think.... your friends mm's wife may have actually gone off sex as she is pregnant, however he will most likely say that he is not attracted to her right now because although he wants to tell your friend the truth so that he has a back out clause set up, (he is saying, it is temporary, even the lack of sex in their marriage is temporary, as soon he wont have the "weight issues", she will give birth!) but he still wants to make your friend feel that she is the most desirable. alot of mm seem to make the ow feel sexually desirable as this is what they are after themselves, this is their hang up, that they no longer have "got it", they think the way to make the ow feel good is to tell her how sexually desirable she is. some mm are abit more intelligent and make the ow feel special in every way. so i think the reason mm have affairs is to see if they are still sexually desirable to women, this is a big deal to men especially as they get older. they may fall in love with the ow aswell, alot of them do develop feelings for the ow, but they will never leave. it is the evidence of these feelings that keep alot of ow in there. still it doesnt matter how in love the mm is with her, he still will not leave. i think for men it is more possivble to be in love with two people as they can seperate things more easily, when they are with the ow she is the only one, and when with the wife she is. he will never give up his home life though, men love beihg married.
Author TrustingFool Posted August 4, 2005 Author Posted August 4, 2005 This guy that she is currently involved with is 35. His wife is only 24 and about to give birth to their baby in about a month. He told Melanie that he loves her, he texts her with his wife at home, he calls Melanie when he is going places and always tells her that he loves her and misses her. He tells Melanie that she is beautiful and that he can't wait to see her. It is one thing after another with this guy. It is kind of like he is trying to make Melanie his second wife. In affairs I always though that you only did what was convenient for you and when it was convenient for you and that you certainly didn't give your affair partner every aspect of your life. I think this is a recipe for intense trouble.
izzybelle Posted August 4, 2005 Posted August 4, 2005 it is a recipie for trouble, there is no doubt in that. my exMM very much treated me the way you describe. he was in touch constantly and would find ways to be in touch even when he was with his W. in every sense of the word, except the legal one, i felt the committment from him and to him that made me very much feel like i had all of his love and was involved in as much of his life as i could be from a distance. the worst with all of that, aside from the fact that a lot of people were hurt, was that when it ended, when he told me he was staying with his wife and not going to be with me any more, i really felt betrayed. and although we didn't have the legal or length of time as he and his wife did, i felt very much like he had cheated on me and was leaving me for her. i know, now, how stupid that all is and even writing it makes me feel like an idiot, but that is how i felt at the time. chances are, your friend's MM will not leave his wife, and if she is buying into the whole thing and feeling like he's "hers" she's going to end up hurt beyond belief. unfortunately, we all tend to feel that our situation is somehow different, that we will be the exception to the statistics, that our MM will be the one to leave (and i do know a number who have) but the reality is, she's probably going to end up being really hurt. it's like any addiction, though, and until she's willing and ready to admit that she has a "problem" she will be stuck in the pattern. helping her to see what she's getting herself into, is one step ... perhaps suggesting to her to read some of the stories on here ... for many of us, over time, we've written posts that have illustrated the intense pain that comes from all of this. and to see that our situ is NOT unique ... i think there have been some who have visited here and read the posts who have ultimately come to realize that their MM is probably no different from many of the others and have gained the strength to walk away.... and most importantly .. be there for her when her world falls apart. being the OW and trying to heal without the help of others is hard...few have umderstanding of the pain and are quick to say "well, what the he!! did you expect he's married!" izzy
Debster Posted August 4, 2005 Posted August 4, 2005 I've heard of men who don't want to have sex with their pregnant wives because of them feeling weird that they're having sex with their child, or are worried that it might hurt their child. I bet that once his wife has the child, he will no longer be interested in your friend. He is basically using her as a surrogate spot for his dick, IMO. Once the baby is born he can then go back to being sexual with his wife.
Craig Posted August 4, 2005 Posted August 4, 2005 Originally posted by TrustingFool What I don't get is how could he be in love and cherish his wife if he thinks that way about her, and how can someone be in love with two people at once? This doesn't make sense to me and it never will but I was looking for insights. It isn't love. Being in love with someone implies (I believe) a desire and commitment expressed through actions that supports the well being of the significant other (SO), the well being of the relationship and the well being of yourself. This is one man, acting with callous destructive disregard for everyone, setting himself up for a future filled with inner and probably outer turmoil--and perhaps that is what he wants. He could have issues that stem from early childhood or he could have some mild mental illness or personality disorder(s.) Unless and until he addresses these issues his wife and Melanie will have to contend with his personal challenges. MM has underestimated the impact that his affair will have on his marriage, his wife, Melanie and himself. He is in denial. His wife already knows something is different in their relationship and in time she will most likely learn of the affair. If it isn't love on his part, what is it? I haven't the slightest inkling of a beginning of what to call it. In lay terms I'd call it crazy. Melanie is not an innocent party either. She has issues, whatever they are, that are expressed in a destructive manner. Having a sexual and emotional relationship with anyone married to someone else can hardly be considered constructive. Melanie has made a conscious decision to get herself into a situation with someone that she can never trust and has set herself up for alot of stress and sadness in the future. How much it is going to hurt her will probably depend upon how long she is involved with MM.
Outcast Posted August 4, 2005 Posted August 4, 2005 He told Melanie that he loves her, he texts her with his wife at home, he calls Melanie when he is going places and always tells her that he loves her and misses her. He tells Melanie that she is beautiful and that he can't wait to see her Of course he does. He's reading from the script all mm use. I bet that 99% of the mistresses that visit this site could recite his words with him silently as he mouths them. Now honestly, how would a guy get sex from some poor trusting fool if he said 'well, I really love my wife. I will never actually love you however I do want you for sex alone on my terms when I feel like it or it's convenient.'? You're in the business, TF. Go scare up the scripts from the ten best 'affair' films of all time. The dialogue is all the same. And here's the sad thing - mistresses are so besotted that they miss the obvious - a man who claims to love his wife and lies to her will lie to anybody he claims to love - *including* the mistress! But humans are a sad lot. People want to believe they're loved so badly that as soon as someone utters the words, they will glom onto that even if the person in question is abusing them at the same time. Can you fix this? I doubt it. She will claim that he really does love her and will cling to that belief no matter what. You can do your best to warn her but you'll likely end up picking up the pieces after she crashes and burns because she probably isn't going to listen to you.
Author TrustingFool Posted August 4, 2005 Author Posted August 4, 2005 I have seen a lot of movies like this but honestly thats the movies and my place of work, you do not actually think this kind of stuff happens just like it does on the silverscreen. I was not brought up in a household like that and I was always taught that when you're in a relationship you're in it to stick together and you definitely never step out on one another and if you feel the need to do so then you should probably have a long hard look at whats going on and if it's not salvageable then you leave. I think it is highly disrespectful of him. Melanie is 28 and I can't believe she has gotten herself into this and she is my best friend. I've tried to tell her what is going to happen but she doesn't seem to get it or she doesn't want to. She says he loves her and he is good to her. I think the things he does makes that seem the case for her. Calling her all the time, texting her, getting online. Even when the wife is around he texts her and I think that is awfully crazy. I'm trying to talk to her about getting out of it. She did ask him what was going to happen after his wife had the baby, would they break up or continue or would he leave. He told her that he was not going to leave and has no intentions of leaving, this should have been the wake up call right there. Yet again he also said that his wife's weight issues were there before she got pregnant and that he should have not married her but he fell in love with her and he was blind. He also told Melanie that they could continue the affair for years and years until something gave. Well years and years of her life wasted is pretty stupid in my opinion and I can't see doing that for years and years and years. Thats just crazy. However I guess it's all mental and when you're mental nothing makes sense.
Outcast Posted August 4, 2005 Posted August 4, 2005 you do not actually think this kind of stuff happens just like it does on the silverscreen Yeah I used to think that. But people write scripts based on what they've seen in real life. All you need do is read the infidelity forum and you'll see the exact same story over and over and over. All the men proclaim undying love - well except the undying love isn't undying enough to get them to leave It's cliche. Maybe seems new and different and wonderful to her because it's her first experience with this. Maybe she's never had a friend in this situation. Maybe she, like you, didn't realize that the movies are based on real life.
newbby Posted August 4, 2005 Posted August 4, 2005 i'm sorry if it is not the case, but you sound like you are judging melanie just a little bit
Outcast Posted August 4, 2005 Posted August 4, 2005 People can't just go do what they want, including intruding in other people's marriages, and not expect disapproval. Nowhere on the planet is there a rule that says you get to do whatever you want and everybody should love and accept it because it makes you happy (even if it makes somebody else miserable).
newbby Posted August 5, 2005 Posted August 5, 2005 no, but if your friends cant accept you warts an all, who can?
erika2610 Posted August 5, 2005 Posted August 5, 2005 Originally posted by Outcast People can't just go do what they want, including intruding in other people's marriages, and not expect disapproval. Nowhere on the planet is there a rule that says you get to do whatever you want and everybody should love and accept it because it makes you happy (even if it makes somebody else miserable). Nobody should jusge this girl. The fact of the matter is.. no matter how much somebody tells her it's a bad idea to stay with him, I can almost gaurantee she won't listen. People told me over & over again.. including my mother, that I needed to get out. I never listened. She won't leave until SHE'S ready to leave.
erika2610 Posted August 5, 2005 Posted August 5, 2005 Originally posted by Outcast People can't just go do what they want, including intruding in other people's marriages, and not expect disapproval. Nowhere on the planet is there a rule that says you get to do whatever you want and everybody should love and accept it because it makes you happy (even if it makes somebody else miserable). Nobody should jusge this girl. The fact of the matter is.. no matter how much somebody tells her it's a bad idea to stay with him, I can almost gaurantee she won't listen. People told me over & over again.. including my mother, that I needed to get out. I never listened. She won't leave until SHE'S ready to leave.
erika2610 Posted August 5, 2005 Posted August 5, 2005 Originally posted by Outcast People can't just go do what they want, including intruding in other people's marriages, and not expect disapproval. Nowhere on the planet is there a rule that says you get to do whatever you want and everybody should love and accept it because it makes you happy (even if it makes somebody else miserable). Nobody should jusge this girl. The fact of the matter is.. no matter how much somebody tells her it's a bad idea to stay with him, I can almost gaurantee she won't listen. People told me over & over again.. including my mother, that I needed to get out. I never listened. She won't leave until SHE'S ready to leave.
newbby Posted August 5, 2005 Posted August 5, 2005 this is true, but if the reason somebody stays is because they have low self esteem, it seems logically to be counter-productive to begin judging them unfavourably. i always get suspicious of people who do this in the name of being helpful. it is so obvious.
Outcast Posted August 5, 2005 Posted August 5, 2005 no, but if your friends cant accept you warts an all, who can? It doesn't mean the friend doesn't see the warts. I don't think it's fair to say that she's 'judging' her friend. That means to me that she condemns or shuns her friend. She doesn't. There's nothing wrong with telling your friend that she's doing something foolish or even something wrong. Being truthful with your friend and still sticking by her is being a true friend. Pretending everything's fine and wonderful when it isn't isn't being a friend at all. I'm sure TF will try to support her friend by telling her that she's too good to settle for an affair and that she deserves much more.
Author TrustingFool Posted August 5, 2005 Author Posted August 5, 2005 I just see through it all. I don't want her to get her and I'm guiding her to see that this guy is really kind of out there. First he called her today and asked her to come and see him at his job and since her car was in the shop and she called me under the pretense that we were to go shopping I said ok. We went up the boulevard and was indeed shopping but then he comes out of nowhere. I say nowhere cause I was totally baffled by his appearance. She introduces me to him and immediately he recognizes me and starts asking me ten million questions about movies and what not, which I didn't really answer most of them. I sort of went off shopping by myself. Then we get to alittle cafe and he and she are talking while I'm getting my food order taken and I hear him ask her to run off with him. He says that once he does that he will not be able to return home, now keep in mind his wife is pregnant and due soon. He says he'd lose everything but he just wants to be with her. Then she laughs and he says 'maybe we should just keep it the way it is'. I almost completely lost it. How disturbing playing with someones head in this way and their feelings. I felt a little disturbed by Melanie's reaction too. I've tried telling her to think about his poor wife and their unborn child together. Once this woman has this baby the sex will resume with his wife and chances are you're going to be on the outs. He has insisted to her in front of me that he is not happy with his wife but now she is pregnant and he feels obligated to work out the marriage for the sake of his soon to be daughter. Fine fair enough whatever. Excuses are like a**h***s, and everyone seems to have one. I do not like this situation at all and I think my friend can do way better than this jerk.
Outcast Posted August 5, 2005 Posted August 5, 2005 I hear him ask her to run off with him. He says that once he does that he will not be able to return home, now keep in mind his wife is pregnant and due soon. He says he'd lose everything but he just wants to be with her. Oh yeah. That sales pitch makes him a real prize, doesn't it? At least your friend didn't agree to run off with him!
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