Q's for BS and WW

[HadMeOverABarrel]

interesting...so what did you think of your MM's wife? Did you look down on her as pathetic?

 

Did you think of the pain your mom went through?

 

(I'm honestly curious, not accusing)

 

Hi! I will answer your questions but am sitting with a colleague now. I want to give it some reflective thought to give you the best possible answer. Will probably be this evening when I'm in the sanctity and quiet of my home, but I will answer you.

[elaine567]

For me as a girl at 14, I lost significant respect for my mother when I saw the way she handled the situation. I have never regained that respect for her. I saw her as very weak, and the whole experience set me on a course to be a very strong, independent woman.

 

I guess she probably stayed for you, to make sure her child had the best start in life.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I guess she probably stayed for you, to make sure her child had the best start in life.

 

I so wish that were the case, dear Elaine. But unfortunately, it wasn't. I think it had mostly to do with her own financial security. Self-esteem and self-respect be damned.

 

This is off-topic, but make no mistake about it...this is the same mother who told me she considered aborting me when she was pregnant so she could go back to college. I guess she didn't think she had it in her to go to college while pregnant with her third child after already being married to my dad for about 11 years. More probably, she just used her pregnancy as an excuse as to why she didn't go to college then. She also blames my oldest brother for not becoming a career gal stating she lost opportunities because she became pregnant with him at age 19. My mom is not someone who takes responsibility for her choices or actions. She is a narcissist, and I made that discovery during counseling through reflecting on A with xMM. Throughout my life she has loathed my accomplishments, except when she could use them as currency for bragging. She has sabotaged my relationships with other family members and friends of the family. When I called her from college (which I paid for 100% while supporting myself) telling her I didn't have money for food despite working full time and classes full time, she told me I'd figure it out. I ended up getting a hand out from my church when I went crying to a priest. That is actually what got me over the hump. Meanwhile, my dad a couple years before on his death bed told me there was money set aside for my college. I didn't see any of it. Trust me, she did not stay married for me (or my siblings). My mom stopped buying me clothes and preparing my food when I turned 15. I used to scrape together a few coins to buy a bean burrito for lunch in high school. If I missed my bus, she would make me walk miles to school with my books, band instrument, etc. because she didn't want to be bothered to drive me the five miles (she was a stay at home mom). I remembered when she stopped doing my laundry at 14 and then told the school counselor that I liked to wear dirty clothes to humiliate me, which she enjoyed. I could go on and on, and my counselor winced at some of the things I told her about how my mom treated me, but I've made my point. ;-) Thanks God I am pretty well balanced, adjusted, and successful despite the above.

Edited May 29, 2017 by HadMeOverABarrel

[dichotomy]

 

If you are a BS, you may not care about OW/OM pain, but trust me, it is totally excruciating and most OW/OM don't really understand what they are signing up for when they enter an A.

 

Why do BS stay with serial cheaters and WW's that continue with AP (false R and otherwise)?

 

 

Not all affairs or WS or AP are the same. I am not an uncaring person. As for OM/MM I dont think he felt much pain at all, other then missing one of his young mistress/FB for fun. If he was some normal guy who really loved her - it might have crossed my mind he might be sad/hurt to have "lost her"- but it was more a power game to him. He had several other women on the side. He was a womanizer.

 

I would not have stayed if my wife had continued to have a relationship with OM/MM. Only hickup was I found out he still called 1-2 times a year for 3-4 years after I demanded N.C. but she was not responding to his attempts to communicate.

 

I can say that some spouses stay for a lots of different reasons. Some of them very logical and for their own interests.

Edited May 29, 2017 by dichotomy

[Cymbeline]

"Second question about power pertains to my theory that WW's seek more power/control in A because they lack that feeling with BS. It's not a one size fits all theory, but I think it is plausible in my case."

 

 

I absolutely believe this to often be true. Women are often emotional leaders in a marriage. If they have most responsibility for children this aspect may become more obvious and seems to frustrate many men. I also think women can lose our playfulness as we age and men miss it.

 

Shirley Glass comments in 'Not just friends' on how frequently the betrayed wife is extremely competent and 'together' while the OW is more fragile and needy yet it is she who receives the strokes and recognition from the WH. Glass says she is perplexed. TRhese wives would be grateful for some of the strokes and indulgences bestowed on the OW who is ostensibly the less capable..

 

I suppose this relates to the ego boost of an affair. It shows how easy it is for both sides to take a life partner and their contribution for granted after some years. I also think Madonna /Whore issues play into the dynamic and many men place their wives into 'mother' role which isn't sexy.

 

If your MM had been married for 30 years I guess his wife is now postmenopausal. A lot of people in their 50 s lose interest in sex with their partner - men and women - but as a woman of 55, my observation is that women don't bother looking outside for it so much, finding fulfilment in other activities and friendships. Men have fewer friends and look for what they perceive to be intimacy in another woman. If a wife is no longer interested, she may not care about a discreet sexual relationship as long as the primary relationship is still with her..

 

a lot of these aging men are awfully boring in their own homes, but put on a good show in an affair with an OW who is easy to impress and is not too demanding. My WH actually told his OW that he loved her 'because she didn't ask for anything'. He corrected himself in an email, in case she 'misunderstood'. saying he meant she didn't expect anything, but she could 'ask me for anything you like because I love making you happy'.

 

The dumb wassock (my WH that is) clearly thought it was a compliment, when it just showed how pleased he was, subconsciously, that she caused him no trouble. Inexplicably, she took it as a compliment. I mean she couldn't even contact him while he was with his family, let alone ask for anything she wanted. . But she isn't the sharpest pencil in the box. When confessing he blurted 'she didn't ask anything of me'. Well no. I understood he meant it was a break from a demanding job and family commitments, but this just showed how escapist it was in reality.

[somuchfortheone]

"Second question about power pertains to my theory that WW's seek more power/control in A because they lack that feeling with BS. It's not a one size fits all theory, but I think it is plausible in my case."

 

 

I absolutely believe this to often be true. Women are often emotional leaders in a marriage. If they have most responsibility for children this aspect may become more obvious and seems to frustrate many men. I also think women can lose our playfulness as we age and men miss it.

 

Shirley Glass comments in 'Not just friends' on how frequently the betrayed wife is extremely competent and 'together' while the OW is more fragile and needy yet it is she who receives the strokes and recognition from the WH. Glass says she is perplexed. TRhese wives would be grateful for some of the strokes and indulgences bestowed on the OW who is ostensibly the less capable..

 

I suppose this relates to the ego boost of an affair. It shows how easy it is for both sides to take a life partner and their contribution for granted after some years. I also think Madonna /Whore issues play into the dynamic and many men place their wives into 'mother' role which isn't sexy.

 

If your MM had been married for 30 years I guess his wife is now postmenopausal. A lot of people in their 50 s lose interest in sex with their partner - men and women - but as a woman of 55, my observation is that women don't bother looking outside for it so much, finding fulfilment in other activities and friendships. Men have fewer friends and look for what they perceive to be intimacy in another woman. If a wife is no longer interested, she may not care about a discreet sexual relationship as long as the primary relationship is still with her..

 

a lot of these aging men are awfully boring in their own homes, but put on a good show in an affair with an OW who is easy to impress and is not too demanding. My WH actually told his OW that he loved her 'because she didn't ask for anything'. He corrected himself in an email, in case she 'misunderstood'. saying he meant she didn't expect anything, but she could 'ask me for anything you like because I love making you happy'.

 

The dumb wassock (my WH that is) clearly thought it was a compliment, when it just showed how pleased he was, subconsciously, that she caused him no trouble. Inexplicably, she took it as a compliment. I mean she couldn't even contact him while he was with his family, let alone ask for anything she wanted. . But she isn't the sharpest pencil in the box. When confessing he blurted 'she didn't ask anything of me'. Well no. I understood he meant it was a break from a demanding job and family commitments, but this just showed how escapist it was in reality.

 

 

***this is the very reason I suspect my husband strayed. I am a communicator and he is not in touch with his feelings and does not like serious conversations. His Ow is exactly the same. When they have disagreement (always him confronting her), I ask "what did she say?" And I get the same response everyone "nothing much.. she just sat there", and he'll ignore her all day if she does something that bothers him (he finds out she's been with the future exH) and if he complains too much about the future exh, she'll just hang up... and then they rug sweep, never actually talk about it (unless they email about their feelings)... it's so bizarre... I think he hates arguing or having talks about feeling with me, he found this girl who either has always been this way or she is this way because she didn't want to be like me (because I'm sure he complained about it because that's been his only complaint about our marriage). So, now they're stuck in a majorly dysfunctional relationship... you really do reap what you sow... I'm seeing it first hand.

[cocorico]

HMOAB, your mother sounds very much like mine.

 

Second question about power pertains to my theory that WW's seek more power/control in A because they lack that feeling with BS. It's not a one size fits all theory, but I think it is plausible in my case.

 

This is an interesting question. I know my father felt powerless in the M with my mother; we've spoken about it many times since. However, his second M (with fOW) was very balanced on the power /control front, right up until he died. So while he had "more" power / control with her than he had in his first M, it certainly wasn't more power / control than his W had.

 

And I'd venture that the same is probably true of my H. By all accounts, his xW was a real harridan and a bully, verbally and emotionally abusive in all her Rs, and given that she was an "older woman" and he a boy when they first got involved, the power dynamic was strongly in her favour throughout. Yet with us, things are pretty even - we talk things through, decide things together, share the load. It suits us both.

 

Thinking about the serial WS I spoke of earlier, I think the same is true there. He describes BW as controlling, positions her as the strict parent and himself as the rebellious kid, and kicks against the rules she sets him. I wouldn't say he seeks power with OW, but that R certainly does provide him with much more than does his M.

[elaine567]

After analyzing interviews with more than 2,750 married people, sociologist Christin Munsch found that for both men and women, the more financially dependent they are on a spouse, the more likely they are to cheat on them.

That's right. It's the person who is NOT bringing home the bacon who is more likely to be messing around on the sly.

To minimize risk of infidelity, make sure you earn as much as your spouse - LA Times

 

 

"This suggests that there is something about inequity in relationships that people don't like, and something about not being the breadwinner that men especially don't like," she said.

 

I think it probably goes deeper than just earning inequity, the person in a marriage who perceives they are "lesser than" their spouse in some way is likely to cheat to address the "imbalance" and thus in their mind gain the upper hand again...

[waterwoman]

"Shirley Glass comments in 'Not just friends' on how frequently the betrayed wife is extremely competent and 'together' while the OW is more fragile and needy yet it is she who receives the strokes and recognition from the WH. Glass says she is perplexed. TRhese wives would be grateful for some of the strokes and indulgences bestowed on the OW who is ostensibly the less capable.."

 

So true. I used to complain to H that I felt like the Martha in our marriage - I was the one who made things happen, who did all the hard work - if he was upset that I wasn't more of a Mary to sit at his feet and hang on his every word that was down to him. He found his very own Mary outside the marriage. She adored him. I loved him deeply and supported him in every way whilst mildly taking the p**s out of him when he needed it. The really sad thing is that I would have loved him to take care of me sometimes, to give me the emotional support he appeared to have given his OW.

[cocorico]

I think it probably goes deeper than just earning inequity, the person in a marriage who perceives they are "lesser than" their spouse in some way is likely to cheat to address the "imbalance" and thus in their mind gain the upper hand again...

 

Makes sense. If someone is making you feel "less than", you're going to want to counteract that.

[wmacbride]

All of this speculation about the inner thoughts of a bs are pointless. Each is an individual who does what he or she does for his or her own reasons.

 

OP,

in the en, you might never know why your mom did what she did. If she is still living, ask her. If she is not, then you are going to have to accept you may never find he answers you are looking for.

 

No one on here can give them to you. There are so many factors that could have played into what make her the way she was.

[waterwoman]

Makes sense. If someone is making you feel "less than", you're going to want to counteract that.

 

I suspect in many case that 'someone' isn't making you feel that way - the circumstances enable you to feel that way because that is your nature. If you don't like the circumstances, change them.

[wmacbride]

I suspect in many case that 'someone' isn't making you feel that way - the circumstances enable you to feel that way because that is your nature. If you don't like the circumstances, change them.

 

True enough.

 

It's been my observation that a lot of men who can't stand up for themselves had domineering mothers who seemed to have some instinctive knowledge of how to mess up their sons.

 

These sons want a "mommy" to look after them, but at the same time, they want a woman who needs them and makes them feel powerful.

 

While these two traits exist in almost everyone ( who doesn't like being looked after sometimes, and who doesn't like to feel in charge sometimes too?), but these men take it to an extreme.

 

It's such a paradox. These men want to have their wife be" mommy" to them and basically be responsible for the heavy lifting. In my experience, men like that don't really want to be responsible for anyone or anything, but at the same time, they want to be seen as being powerful. Again, in my experience, these same men like affairs because they can be showered with praise and care by the ow without the responsibility that goes along with it. In short, for these men, affairs are easy. They always have to option of running home to "mommy" ( his wife) if the A gets too tough. When the A is no longer fun, they can walk away and find someone else.

 

Mind you, this is just a general observation, and doesn't apply to everyone. Each person has their own reasons for doing what they do.

[cocorico]

I suspect in many case that 'someone' isn't making you feel that way - the circumstances enable you to feel that way because that is your nature. If you don't like the circumstances, change them.

 

Sure - I wasn't implying that it was necessarily intended (though, sometimes it is) but that the person feeling "less than" perceives it thus - and so "acts out" against the person they perceive as "doing it" to them.

 

It's a perspective I've not come across before, but I can see how it could play out.

[Southern Sun]

I can answer your second question about power, as a fWW.

 

I find this interesting because I agree with DeadSoul, and it's the opposite of what you assume. I did not feel I had any power over my xMM. In fact, I think one of the big lures of the A for me was that HE was the dominant one. I felt I had met my match, so to speak. I have always been the more assertive or dominant one between my H and me, which is not particularly a role I've wanted. I feel like I was forced into it, by default. I have longed for a strong man, to help guide our family, to push us, to make decisions, to feel that someone else is in control. I feel like I am the one in that position in our family and xMM presented as a person I could finally lean on. He had everything handled. I could just look to him. And if even if I had to decide something, it was because he told me to.

 

It was the giving up control, having someone else take it, that was so appealing to me.

[harrybrown]

Have you told your H this?

[HadMeOverABarrel]

interesting...so what did you think of your MM's wife? Did you look down on her as pathetic?

 

Did you think of the pain your mom went through?

 

(I'm honestly curious, not accusing)

 

I have not forgotten you AileD. I've thought of you last couple days. My workdays have been weird and when I have gotten home I've passed out sitting up in my chair. I WILL ANSWER YOU THOUGH.

[Southern Sun]

Have you told your H this?

 

I have, and in multiple ways. It never goes well. He is either very defensive, tells me that there's no way I would LET him take control, or is so destroyed by the whole thing that I feel I've wounded his ego permanently.

 

I do, however, very much wish that we could openly and honestly address this issue.

[seren]

I think in most relationships there is the one who makes the decisions, after discussion there will still be one who puts the plan into action, a lot of traditional men and women adopt the roles they think they ought to occupy. A woman who is assertive and successful can often find it difficult to hang up the capable persona at the door and become 'the little woman at home' that some men expect. Some men can find it emasculating when faced with a capable, can do it doesn't need a man to do it woman. Having lived on military camps as a service woman and as a wife for many, many years I used to see it all the time. I have also seen strong women pretend to need help or adopt a different persona to appear that they need help when they have previously done it on their own. I have asked why they did this and they said it made the men feel better, and that for some men, it was what helped to make them feel masculine. Having been brought up to expect men/women roles they just didn't know how to deal with anything outside this. Crazy.

 

True balance is rare, since becoming disabled I have to rely more and more on my husband to do the things I would have done for myself before. I was a successful professional woman, earned more than him and could do most things without help. Yes, I too fell into asking him to do things just because I knew he liked to do things for me. Does that mean I held all the power and now have none? Well I would say no, it was recognising that we each had different things to bring to our long relationship.

 

As to why as a BS I had H back after his affair, not a serial cheater, I cannot answer that, but know once has been enough and there would be no second chances. I never left our marriage, never stopped loving him. I stayed for love, simple as that. I earned enough to live alone, was self sufficient, didn't need H for stuff, but needed him because I loved him.He stayed for the same reasons, it would have been easier to walk away, anyone who thinks that staying after an affair is the easy option has no idea of how hard reconciliation is. But, it is possible and a different relationship that flourishes despite the affair is possible.

 

Reading here and other places it is often thought that the BS is some weak, cowering, cannot cope, needs the money type, we are as different as any other person. Most of us are totally blindsided by the affair as our WS is the same toward us, we talk, laugh, make plans, go out, discuss future plans and have sex, otherwise we would cotton on far sooner that an affair was taking place. We believe them when they say they are stressed because we love and trust them. When they stay it rarely is because we chain them in the basement, when they don't call it isn't because we have taken their phones away or glued their mouth shut, it is because we are working on us.

 

Not all are like this, not all aren't, everyone's situation is different. They stay because they ask and we think about it and then we decide, they leave if they want to. I once worked out that the OW and H had spent as much time with each other over 8 months as we did in less than a week and we had been together at the time for over 23 years, so I reckon I knew this man better than anyone and still was blindsided. TBH who cares who has most power, who cares who knows who best, all I cared and care about is that we are just fine now. Had he left, I would still be fine, but would have a H sized hole in my heart.