Approaching women in casual settings

[Phase_shift22]

If girls don't really show any interest or enthusiasm towards you when talking to them in casual setting (bar/hiking) after 5 or 10 minutes does this mean they have no interest in you? From some of my other posts here, I've been told that girls pretty much instantly know if they are into a guy or not and that guys can't "create" attraction once the non-attractive impression has been made. That being said, I'm assuming as guys, there is a certain amount of "cultivation" that we must do (i.e. tell a joke, or a funny story, get her talking about common interests etc.) prior to asking for their phone number.

 

In short, if you've run through "20 questions" and they're still not really into you (no body language signs, not really asking you questions, etc) I guess it's just better to move on?

 

Kind of along the same lines, how is it best to talk to girls in these settings? One approach would be to talk to them like friends (common interests, etc) which is kind of what I've been doing up until now; another approach is to be other the top and overt about your intentions (i.e. you look like a model, you must be a heartbreaker, etc) but I've always thought that was borderline chauvinistic in a way.

 

As a side note, these events tend to have really high guy/girl skewed ratios (4 or 5 to 1), so when in a group of guys and one girl, is it better just to engage just the girl in the group? Or engage the group of guys and the girl?

[NTV]

I wouldnt recommend using those places to meet women in the first place.

If however you're adamant about it, here's what I'd do...

I would give brief eye contact and then ignore. Think about it this way- if you were in a room with five girls (yay!) And the first four came to hit on you (double yay!) But the fifth ignored you... and this happens all the time (triple yay!) well you know you could go out with the first four. But there's no challenge in that. By hitting ignore you're essentially playing hard to get.

 

Then when she did approach me out of curiosity but under the guise of didn't want to be rude... well then I would play at flirting but no direct come ons or anything like that.

 

My 2 cents anyway.

[smackie9]

Be genuine, confident and friendly/funny, act like you don't have a care in the world, respect her space.

[Shanex]

I'm all for encouraging people to meet outside of online dating, the approach in the real world is different and I believe older folks generally speaking are less awkward since there was no Internet then.

 

Being normal is key, being friendly and open to talk is good, you can feel rejection when the woman don't ask you any questions or is evasive, in which case it's time to politely walk away.

[preraph]

She's not interested in you and that is evident in the obvious fact that she isn't showing interest in you. No woman likes to be "worked on" when they already know they're not attracted to you. It's condescending, as if you're saying she doesn't know what's right for her own self.

 

If a woman thought there was ANY chance at all that she MIGHT be interested in you, she wouldn't act disinterested during that conversation. I mean, think about it in reverse. Would you shut the conversation down or give the cold shoulder to a girl if you were even slightly minutely attracted to her and were available?

 

Of course, you should socialize and talk to everyone at such a get together as hiking. Maybe not strangers at bars unless you met up there as a group. I am constantly just dumbfounded that this comes up time and time again. It's as if people nowadays find it such an effort to be friendly and sociable that they don't want to waste it on anyone except a pretty girl they want to have sex with. Honestly, that is so stunted. The more friends you make, the wider your net is, the more success you will have in all aspects of life and love.

Edited May 28, 2017 by preraph

[Ami1uwant]

I'm all for encouraging people to meet outside of online dating, the approach in the real world is different and I believe older folks generally speaking are less awkward since there was no Internet then.

 

Being normal is key, being friendly and open to talk is good, you can feel rejection when the woman don't ask you any questions or is evasive, in which case it's time to politely walk away.

 

 

What do you define as older folks???

 

online dating has been around for over 20 years.

while its true that folks 35+ know how to talk and they have done converstatins and meeting as a way to date.

 

The fact is ---this is true for a long time now---its infanitely more harder to meet people when you are 35+ than when you were in your early 20s.

 

especially when it comes to randommettings. You might meet someone in a random and unexpected setting and one part has mind on other things than to even think of maybe ill meet someone. If they have their mild elsewhere they will not show signs of interest.

 

From my own experience it usually take a couple of random run ins to then take the next step to date,

[Imajerk17]

Well in any case, you should "move on" when the person talking to you isn't showing that they are enjoying the conversation or not, whether or not you think you've exhausted the list of conversation topics.

 

As far as how "direct" you should be, you need to calibrate to the situation.

 

In a bar or a cold-approach situation, you should be more direct. I mean, you both know why you are talking to her and unless you both want to, you probably won't see her again. If you and she have a lively 5-minute conversation in the cereal aisle of Trader Joe's say you should ask for her number.

 

In a hiking Meet-up however, you should be a bit less direct. After all, regardless of how you and she get along, you will still see her all through the hike and then the hikes after that. My understanding, from reading threads written by other posters who go to Meet-ups a lot, is that many women don't like it when a guy there comes on too strong. [i did give you advice on your last thread. I was referring to you getting pushed out of conversation. For whatever reason I didn't catch in that thread that you did ask these women for contact information and they said no. So I hope comparing what I just wrote above to what I wrote in your last thread doesn't confuse you.]

 

Anyway OP, do you get to see any successful male-female interactions on these hikes? I am talking conversations where both seem to really be enjoying themselves. If you do, then I would take notes about what the guy in particular is doing. Chances are he is really good at drawing the woman out, getting her to talk about herself, and flirting with her, in a way that makes her feel comfortable.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Imajerk17

[preraph]

^ But also he is probably just more her type she thinks is attractive.

[CptInsano]

If girls don't really show any interest or enthusiasm towards you when talking to them in casual setting (bar/hiking) after 5 or 10 minutes does this mean they have no interest in you? [...]

 

It means that she doesn't enjoy talking to you. There can be plenty of reasons, from her being cold, tired, distracted, taking medication, looking for another guy, or rather wishing to discuss the pros and cons of the privatization of infrastructure, instead.

However, you are unlikely to make a positive impression by continuing the conversation.

 

From some of my other posts here, I've been told that girls pretty much instantly know if they are into a guy or not and that guys can't "create" attraction once the non-attractive impression has been made. That being said, I'm assuming as guys, there is a certain amount of "cultivation" that we must do (i.e. tell a joke, or a funny story, get her talking about common interests etc.) prior to asking for their phone number.

 

The instant effect is wrong in my experience, which is somewhat substantiated by marketing research on first impressions. First impressions are hard to reverse, but you don't know when they occur. This means that an ambivalence may persist until an impressions is formed. But it is hard to predict when this occurs or what triggers it.

 

I've had a date tell me that it took her an hour of talking with me for her to make up her mind.

 

But yes, flat out asking for her number is very unimaginative. You will need to engage in conversation.

 

In short, if you've run through "20 questions" and they're still not really into you (no body language signs, not really asking you questions, etc) I guess it's just better to move on?

 

"20 questions" is more of an interrogation technique to be used if any other attempts at conversation fail. I have yet to resort to it.

 

Kind of along the same lines, how is it best to talk to girls in these settings? One approach would be to talk to them like friends (common interests, etc) which is kind of what I've been doing up until now; another approach is to be other the top and overt about your intentions (i.e. you look like a model, you must be a heartbreaker, etc) but I've always thought that was borderline chauvinistic in a way.

 

You can flirt even if you are not a model, but it needs to be low-key at those events. The safe route is just small-talk, leading to "hopes, dreams, aspirations", etc. If I really have nothing in common with somebody I'm not forcing anything.

 

As a side note, these events tend to have really high guy/girl skewed ratios (4 or 5 to 1), so when in a group of guys and one girl, is it better just to engage just the girl in the group? Or engage the group of guys and the girl?

 

I would avoid events with these ratios. Not because of the competition itself, but it creates an artificial scarcity effect, similar to competing for a price at some game booth at a fair. You are likely to compete for something you don't really want just because everybody else is.

[Shanex]

What do you define as older folks???

 

online dating has been around for over 20 years.

while its true that folks 35+ know how to talk and they have done converstatins and meeting as a way to date.

 

The fact is ---this is true for a long time now---its infanitely more harder to meet people when you are 35+ than when you were in your early 20s.

 

especially when it comes to randommettings. You might meet someone in a random and unexpected setting and one part has mind on other things than to even think of maybe ill meet someone. If they have their mild elsewhere they will not show signs of interest.

 

From my own experience it usually take a couple of random run ins to then take the next step to date,

 

What you said so 35 and more. But I was more tempted to say 45+ even. While online dating has existed for 2 decades and so have texts and the Internet, it just wasn't as widespread as it is now, or for some years.

 

That said social awkwardness isn't a ''thing'' of millennials neither are life-long Bachelor's and Bachelorettes. They have always existed, but overall the advent of modern technology hasn't contributed really even though it was the initial intent to more socializing. Quite the contrary.

[Phase_shift22]

It means that she doesn't enjoy talking to you. There can be plenty of reasons, from her being cold, tired, distracted, taking medication, looking for another guy, or rather wishing to discuss the pros and cons of the privatization of infrastructure, instead.

However, you are unlikely to make a positive impression by continuing the conversation.

 

The instant effect is wrong in my experience, which is somewhat substantiated by marketing research on first impressions. First impressions are hard to reverse, but you don't know when they occur. This means that an ambivalence may persist until an impressions is formed. But it is hard to predict when this occurs or what triggers it.

 

I've had a date tell me that it took her an hour of talking with me for her to make up her mind.

 

Thank you for providing the insight from your date.

 

That being said, how would you distinguish ambivalence vs. disinterest? To clarify what I meant before is, unless you're a male model, most guys have to do a certain amount of "selling oneself" be it through common interests, jokes, witty banter, etc. before they can even be considered as a possibility by women. What I'm trying to understand is how much is "enough" such that, if a girl doesn't respond or show any interest by time X (X in my original post is 5 minutes) then one can conclude that a girl isn't interested and I should move on. Obviously, this will vary from situation to situation; if a girl doesn't make eye contact and just gives one word answers to my first two questions, then the 5 minute rule doesn't apply (she's obviously not interested). However, should I encounter a girl like the date that you described in your post, who is more ambivalent how would I be able to tell she is? If she is kind of engaging, but non-committal or she just replies casually, I would at least think that she's at least interested in talking.

 

If you're comfortable with sharing, if you could provide some more details about how you were able to ask for ambivalent girl on a date, that would also be helpful.

 

I would avoid events with these ratios. Not because of the competition itself, but it creates an artificial scarcity effect, similar to competing for a price at some game booth at a fair. You are likely to compete for something you don't really want just because everybody else is.

 

Any suggestions on where to meet girls where the ratios are more even? FWIW, I've tried hiking, sports leagues, board game events and yes, the happy hour/bar meetup group. In all instances, I've found the guy/girl ratio to be radically skewed. In the sports leagues in particular, not only is it skewed, but the majority of the girls are with their BFs or have rings on their fingers.

 

To clarify, these bar experiences I'm referring to take place through a bar/happy hour meet-up. That is, it's organized as a meetup group in a bar setting (an entire section of the bar is reserved just for us). I figured that it was a good place to meet girls since most if not all of them are single, unlike the sports leagues I referred to earlier.

 

I have tried speed dating as well, but that has never worked for me either.

[CptInsano]

Thank you for providing the insight from your date.

 

That being said, how would you distinguish ambivalence vs. disinterest? To clarify what I meant before is, unless you're a male model, most guys have to do a certain amount of "selling oneself" be it through common interests, jokes, witty banter, etc. before they can even be considered as a possibility by women.

 

There should actually be very little of "selling yourself", this is not an interview or a sales call. (This only applies to a certain degree to the bar scene but not to casual or social settings.) The key is that a common interest should truly be a common interest, and not a pretense to find somebody to hook up. You'll have a hard time if you're not enjoying the activity or the conversation with the woman.

 

Gauging interest is tricky, meaning that the other person may simply enjoy the conversation. That is what I refer to as ambivalence in a romantic sense. It's just a good time. Disinterest is pretty obvious, it's the cold shoulder and you are doing all the talking.

 

 

If you're comfortable with sharing, if you could provide some more details about how you were able to ask for ambivalent girl on a date, that would also be helpful.

 

You simply do and take a risk. If she seems to enjoy your company in one sense, you can always ask for her number or directly suggest a date. But rest assured, you'll have to talk to a decent number of women. If you don't enjoy small talk or socializing the casual approach is probably not for you.

 

Any suggestions on where to meet girls where the ratios are more even? FWIW, I've tried hiking, sports leagues, board game events and yes, the happy hour/bar meetup group. In all instances, I've found the guy/girl ratio to be radically skewed. In the sports leagues in particular, not only is it skewed, but the majority of the girls are with their BFs or have rings on their fingers.

 

You will find more men in sports and women in fitness, as a rule of thumb. You'll find more women in urban centers than in the country, and more so in arts/music and social activities, such as volunteering. But you don't have to go there if you build a group of friends to go out or hang out with, meaning that private events (parties, dinners, weddings, or other outings) are probably the best places for meeting women in a casual setting.

[Chilli]

yeah , 20 questions , fk me she'd think she's in court.

Just chill out , see what flows.

 

Once this guy l knew , l was still married but he'd been single forever and loved meeting girls , he was good at it too. l always got a laigh out of him and the strange places he'd meet his women.

He'd be telling me some story, met a girl here or there, anywhere. Super markets, walking down the street, you name it any time anywhere and one day l asked him, how do you meet all these women wtf do you say.

He said you know what , l don't say anything, l just walk up and say hi, and see what happens.

 

Knew him 16yrs and he had a different girl every week.

[clia]

Any suggestions on where to meet girls where the ratios are more even? FWIW, I've tried hiking, sports leagues, board game events and yes, the happy hour/bar meetup group. In all instances, I've found the guy/girl ratio to be radically skewed. In the sports leagues in particular, not only is it skewed, but the majority of the girls are with their BFs or have rings on their fingers.

 

To clarify, these bar experiences I'm referring to take place through a bar/happy hour meet-up. That is, it's organized as a meetup group in a bar setting (an entire section of the bar is reserved just for us). I figured that it was a good place to meet girls since most if not all of them are single, unlike the sports leagues I referred to earlier.

 

 

I think Meetups like this are a great way to meet women. However, there is a certain art to it. You don't want to be the creepy guy who is hitting on every woman who shows up and you don't want to monopolize a woman's time for the entire event.

 

I would suggest the following. Become somewhat of a regular at the events. This doesn't necessarily mean going to every event, but at least maybe 2 a month, depending on how often they hold events. In other words, you are regular enough that you start to get to know others who show up at least on a "hey, how are you doing," kind of basis. Get to know the organizers and other regulars. Maybe even take the initiative and plan an event for the group once or twice.

 

Be sure to talk to both men and women at the events. Engage the group. It's just so obvious when a guy is only out to pick up and is a total turn off. I think women in general prefer to see (and are more attracted to) the guy who is friendly and talking to everyone, confident, involved, etc., rather than the guy who is just out to pick up.

 

I think it's totally fine at Meetups to walk up and introduce yourself, but don't linger too long. Don't use pickup lines. Just be friendly. Talk for 5-10 minutes and then move on and talk to someone else. If she finds you remotely interesting, she will find you way more interesting if you wander off and don't monopolize her time. But now at least you've met her and know her name. When you see her at another event, there is familiarity already. Unless you are getting crystal clear signs of interest, don't ask for her number on the first meet. Wait until you see her at another event and get a chance to talk again.