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Posted
I am sorry that you feel heart broken.

I hope that really soon you will see things more clearly and conclude that the breakup was a blessing in disguise.... from what you wrote, this is what I gathered:

 

--- You were a very caring, thoughtful, kind boyfriend who bent backwards for her, you did a LOT for her, you basically spoiled her

---- She barely did ANYTHING for you, belittled the first engagement ring you bought for her, mocked you called you clingy, you seem to be an annoyance for her with trying to make something out of yourself by pursuing medical school, annoyed by your sickness !!!!! MAJOR RED FLAG !!!!

Basically expecting everything from you, doing NOTHING for you.

She was not there to support you when you were sick !

This is TERRIBLE !

 

In my opinion, she is a spoiled brat who way overestimates herself. FOR WHAT ? How is she in the position to be such an arrogant butthole?

What did she achieve in life ? Nothing !

 

She is inconsiderate, selfish, lack compassion and class.

Very immature emotionally and SHALLOW ! Who wants to be around this woman for the rest of his life ? NOT YOU !

 

You are way better and deserve way better than be treated like this, don't you think ?? Find a like minded lady, who is sweet caring and loving.

Please move on and NEVER look back. You are so lucky that this is over !

What she said here..... is evil :

 

Her reply was "so this is how much you respect me? You cant respect me, if maybe you had a sister you'd know" This she was talking about my dead sister.

(who says something like that ?? )

 

Thanks for your response

 

Honestly Now that I think she simply needed convenience. A guy who will work and being in the bread and butter and she just sits and talks to her sisteer on skype victimizing themselves and their in laws with no accountability. Thats what I have gathered. Ive accomplished a lot in my life but Ive never let it get to my head.

 

For me everything died when she mentioned my sisters name in vain. Hell no. She said jt before and i let it go. My mom and dad both talked to her dad too. They basically spelled it out for him.

 

I know if i broke up w my fiance and she had surgery soon. Id still text or call to see if she okay. Thats if I had the least bit of humanity left in me. But ofcourse Id do more knowing me.

  • Like 1
  • Author
Posted
Lifesaver, you are wise to realize you were a part of the problem. It takes two willing participants to make a toxic relationship last five years. The toxicity, then, is not something SHE was doing to you. Rather, it is something you BOTH were doing to each other. Of course, her contributions (e.g., the selfishness and temper tantrums) are easy to see. Your own contribution, however, is far more difficult to see because -- after all -- you feel you were only trying to help her.

 

Yet, your willingness to remain in a toxic relationship for nearly 5 years indicates that you almost certainly are an excessive caregiver -- just like me. Our problem is not wanting to help a loved one but, rather, our willingness to keep doing it even when it is to our great detriment to do so -- and even when we are not really helping.

 

As I understand it, we keep repeating that behavior -- as I did for 15 years -- because our desire to be needed (for what we can do) far exceeds our desire to be loved (for the men we already are). This is why, when we are out looking for a partner, we keep walking right on past all the healthy, emotionally available women (BORING!) until we find one who desperately needs us. The chances of our finding a BPDer-type woman are very high because BPDers are masters at projecting vulnerability, which is "catnip" to us caregivers. If you want to see how instantly and intensely you are drawn in by vulnerability, all you have to do is watch 20 minutes of any Marilyn Monroe movie.

 

We apparently got to be this way by growing up too fast, becoming "the fixer" and "little man" of the family. The best explanation I've seen of how this likely occurred in our childhoods is Shari Schreiber's blog article at Core Injury. Although I don't like Schreiber's description of BPDers (she confuses them with narcissists and sociopaths), I nonetheless find this blog article to be very insightful in explaining our caregiving nature. I suggest you read it because, once you understand how you're harming your GF -- not helping her -- you will start to free yourself from the terrible guilt that makes it so painful to walk away from her.

 

To a caregiver, the notion of walking away from a sick loved one is anathema, even when we can see that our attempts "to fix her" are not working. We mistakenly believe that, if we can only figure out what WE are doing wrong, we can restore our partners to those wonderful people we saw at the very beginning.

 

Thanks for your response.

 

So question, are you saying my "excessive" giving nature was a form of toxicity? Its interesting you say that. Her sisters husband who is a real jerk doesnt even do anything for her bday or valentines day and yet they are "married". Could it be people like that only need to get the bare minimum to be grounded?

Posted

It's a pretty simple rule to follow. Don't get into a one-way giving situation in a personal relationship. Don't give disproportionately to what you are getting back in emotions or gifts or anything. It creates imbalance.

 

And here's the main thing. People who are so nice and giving, sadly instead of them attracting someone likewise good and giving, will instead attract opportunists and greedy takers.

  • Like 2
Posted
So question, are you saying my "excessive" giving nature was a form of toxicity?
No, your giving nature is a good thing. I'm saying that, when you're in a BPDer relationship, you are in a parent/child relationship, not a husband/wife type relationship. Hence, when loving a BPDer -- as when loving a young child -- it is important to avoid giving excessively because it can be harmful to both of you.

 

Your giving nature, in that environment, became excessive because you failed to establish strong personal boundaries and enforce them. Instead, you walked on eggshells around her to enable the toxic relationship to continue year after year. As an enabler, you made it possible for her to continue behaving like a spoiled, abusive child -- and GET AWAY WITH IT. Most parents know that, if they spoil their children and allow them to misbehave without suffering the logical consequences of their own bad choices, those children will be harmed because they will never learn how to manage their own emotions and take responsibility for their own actions.

 

This is why it is important that people be allowed to suffer the logical consequences (within reason) of their bad behavior. If you protect your ex-fiance from those logical consequences, your enabling behavior -- though well intended -- actually harms her over the long run by destroying all her opportunities to be forced (by logical consequences) to confront her own issues and learn how to manage them.

 

In my case, for example, I sheltered my BPDer exW from having to suffer the logical consequences for 15 years. As you said, "I wanted to help her, be her savior." Likewise, I wanted to be the rescuer who rode in on a white horse to save my exW from her unhappiness. Never mind that, every time I pulled her from the raging seas, she would jump right back into the water as soon as I turned my head. A BPDer does not really want to be saved. Instead, she creates one drama after the other to obtain validation of her false self image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim."

 

Early in the relationship with a BPDer, you serve to validate that false self identity by repeatedly attempting to rescue her. After all, only "victims" are in need of being rescued. As the relationship matures, however, she will increasingly start perceiving of you as "The Perpetrator," not "The Rescuer." Your ex-fiance, for example, started telling her father that she feared you would start hitting her when you got angry. And she started blaming you for every misfortune to befall her -- and claimed that you were incapable of respecting or loving her.

 

As strange as it sounds, a BPDer is almost as satisfied with you being "The Perpetrator" as with you being "The Rescuer." Either way, you satisfy her powerful need to be validated as "The Victim." Once you stop playing those two roles, a BPDer typically will permanently end the relationship (as my exW did when I stopped walking on eggshells around her and started enforcing strong personal boundaries). Because a BPDer has such a fragile, weak sense of who she is, she will keep a death grip on her false self image of being "The Victim" -- and will need frequent validation that it is true. This is why the #2 best-selling BPD book is titled I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!

  • Like 2
  • Author
Posted
No, your giving nature is a good thing. I'm saying that, when you're in a BPDer relationship, you are in a parent/child relationship, not a husband/wife type relationship. Hence, when loving a BPDer -- as when loving a young child -- it is important to avoid giving excessively because it can be harmful to both of you.

 

Your giving nature, in that environment, became excessive because you failed to establish strong personal boundaries and enforce them. Instead, you walked on eggshells around her to enable the toxic relationship to continue year after year. As an enabler, you made it possible for her to continue behaving like a spoiled, abusive child -- and GET AWAY WITH IT. Most parents know that, if they spoil their children and allow them to misbehave without suffering the logical consequences of their own bad choices, those children will be harmed because they will never learn how to manage their own emotions and take responsibility for their own actions.

 

This is why it is important that people be allowed to suffer the logical consequences (within reason) of their bad behavior. If you protect your ex-fiance from those logical consequences, your enabling behavior -- though well intended -- actually harms her over the long run by destroying all her opportunities to be forced (by logical consequences) to confront her own issues and learn how to manage them.

 

In my case, for example, I sheltered my BPDer exW from having to suffer the logical consequences for 15 years. As you said, "I wanted to help her, be her savior." Likewise, I wanted to be the rescuer who rode in on a white horse to save my exW from her unhappiness. Never mind that, every time I pulled her from the raging seas, she would jump right back into the water as soon as I turned my head. A BPDer does not really want to be saved. Instead, she creates one drama after the other to obtain validation of her false self image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim."

 

Early in the relationship with a BPDer, you serve to validate that false self identity by repeatedly attempting to rescue her. After all, only "victims" are in need of being rescued. As the relationship matures, however, she will increasingly start perceiving of you as "The Perpetrator," not "The Rescuer." Your ex-fiance, for example, started telling her father that she feared you would start hitting her when you got angry. And she started blaming you for every misfortune to befall her -- and claimed that you were incapable of respecting or loving her.

 

As strange as it sounds, a BPDer is almost as satisfied with you being "The Perpetrator" as with you being "The Rescuer." Either way, you satisfy her powerful need to be validated as "The Victim." Once you stop playing those two roles, a BPDer typically will permanently end the relationship (as my exW did when I stopped walking on eggshells around her and started enforcing strong personal boundaries). Because a BPDer has such a fragile, weak sense of who she is, she will keep a death grip on her false self image of being "The Victim" -- and will need frequent validation that it is true. This is why the #2 best-selling BPD book is titled I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!

 

What you and everyone else on this forum have said is absolutely true on the dot. Everyone has flaws, thats what makes us human, but what you have classified here is sadly what I think I was dealing with. I had a feeling that was the case, because she was never really enthusiastic about our relationship on a public setting.

 

I come from a family of writers, and every moment Id get, Id write poetry, or just write about how I did so well on my hospital rotation exams, thanks to my lovely fiancé. When white coat ceremony came, I was very vocal and enthusiastic about it, in how she stood by me, trying to give her, her position in my life and give her that feeling of belongingness. I would always have our engagement picture up showing the world how proud I am to have her.

 

Her on the other hand, she never wrote a single thing dedicated to me. Never put a picture up of us. Her excuse was, well thats not my thing. I get it, it probably wasn't, but given that I was proud to have her, she should have done the least amount a bit.

 

I hate to use the word psychotic, but honest to God, she's called me a "monster, psycho, looser, pussy, cry baby". It hurt a lot, still does, thinking what was in her heart the whole time.

 

Its left me shattered a bit. I just hope I can move on and be at peace. She painted a very ugly picture of what love "can be". I just feel used, manipulated, and just trashed.

Posted
I hate to use the word psychotic, but honest to God, she's called me a "monster, psycho, looser, pussy, cry baby".
Lifesaver, this verbal abuse likely arises from "black-white thinking," aka "splitting." The human condition is that our brains are hardwired to instantly shift to B-W thinking whenever we are startled or suddenly frightened. To ensure our survival, our brains don't allow us to do high-level intellectual thinking when we are suddenly scared. Hence, when you are walking in a crosswalk and suddenly look up to see a truck bearing down on you, your mind is capable of thinking only "jump left" or "jump right."

 

Although this dichotomous B-W thinking is very valuable during such emergencies, it can be disastrous if we rely on it to guide our actions in personal relationships. Nearly all of us understand that well by the time we are in high school. That is, we are well aware that, whenever our feelings are intense, our rational judgement is strongly colored and distorted and thus cannot be trusted. This is why we try to keep our mouths shut -- and our fingers off the keys -- until we have time to cool down and allow our good judgment to return. And this is why we try to wait at least two years before buying the ring.

 

Well, BPDers are like that too -- only much more so. Because BPDers are unable to regulate their emotions, they experience intense feelings far more frequently than the rest of us. Moreover, BPDers are so immature that they cannot tolerate being conscious of two strong conflicting feelings toward you (e.g., love and hate) at the same time. Hence, like young children, BPDers "split off" one of those strong conflicting feelings, putting it far out of reach of their conscious minds.

 

For those two reasons, BPDers rely heavily on B-W thinking. This is why they often use all-or-nothing expressions such as "You ALWAYS..." and "You NEVER...." And this is why they categorize all people close to them as "all good" (white) or "all bad" (black) -- and as "with me" or "against me." Further, they will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just ten seconds -- based solely on a minor comment or action. Then, a day or a month later, they will recategorize that person back to the polar opposite just as quickly.

 

This is not to say, however, that BPDers are "psychotic" -- the term you mention reluctantly above. "Psychotic" means that a person has a distorted perception of physical reality, e.g., believing that the TV news anchor is speaking to you personally. In contrast, BPDers see physical reality just fine. What is distorted is their perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations. As I noted above, all of us experience such distortions whenever our feelings are very intense.

 

Its left me shattered a bit.... I just feel used, manipulated, and just trashed.
Lifesaver, if you really have been dating a BPDer for nearly 5 years, consider yourself lucky that you are only feeling "shattered" and "trashed." In BPDer relationships lasting several years, a large share of the abused partners feel like they may be going crazy. Indeed, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. (To a lesser extent, NPD and ASPD also have that crazymaking effect on the partners.) Hence, therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going insane -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

 

Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you believe, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning.

  • Like 2
  • Author
Posted (edited)
Lifesaver, this verbal abuse likely arises from "black-white thinking," aka "splitting." The human condition is that our brains are hardwired to instantly shift to B-W thinking whenever we are startled or suddenly frightened. To ensure our survival, our brains don't allow us to do high-level intellectual thinking when we are suddenly scared. Hence, when you are walking in a crosswalk and suddenly look up to see a truck bearing down on you, your mind is capable of thinking only "jump left" or "jump right."

 

Although this dichotomous B-W thinking is very valuable during such emergencies, it can be disastrous if we rely on it to guide our actions in personal relationships. Nearly all of us understand that well by the time we are in high school. That is, we are well aware that, whenever our feelings are intense, our rational judgement is strongly colored and distorted and thus cannot be trusted. This is why we try to keep our mouths shut -- and our fingers off the keys -- until we have time to cool down and allow our good judgment to return. And this is why we try to wait at least two years before buying the ring.

 

Well, BPDers are like that too -- only much more so. Because BPDers are unable to regulate their emotions, they experience intense feelings far more frequently than the rest of us. Moreover, BPDers are so immature that they cannot tolerate being conscious of two strong conflicting feelings toward you (e.g., love and hate) at the same time. Hence, like young children, BPDers "split off" one of those strong conflicting feelings, putting it far out of reach of their conscious minds.

 

For those two reasons, BPDers rely heavily on B-W thinking. This is why they often use all-or-nothing expressions such as "You ALWAYS..." and "You NEVER...." And this is why they categorize all people close to them as "all good" (white) or "all bad" (black) -- and as "with me" or "against me." Further, they will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just ten seconds -- based solely on a minor comment or action. Then, a day or a month later, they will recategorize that person back to the polar opposite just as quickly.

 

This is not to say, however, that BPDers are "psychotic" -- the term you mention reluctantly above. "Psychotic" means that a person has a distorted perception of physical reality, e.g., believing that the TV news anchor is speaking to you personally. In contrast, BPDers see physical reality just fine. What is distorted is their perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations. As I noted above, all of us experience such distortions whenever our feelings are very intense.

 

Lifesaver, if you really have been dating a BPDer for nearly 5 years, consider yourself lucky that you are only feeling "shattered" and "trashed." In BPDer relationships lasting several years, a large share of the abused partners feel like they may be going crazy. Indeed, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. (To a lesser extent, NPD and ASPD also have that crazymaking effect on the partners.) Hence, therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going insane -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

 

Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you believe, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning.

 

Thanks for your input as always. Its all making sense now.

 

You know my sister passed away in 2013 December. We had to take her off of life-support, it was hard because she had downs syndrome and then had pneumonia due to a MRSA infection. I was mentally disturbed, and then during this time, I had started to date her, when this happened, I sort of ignored people around me. Was it right? Probably not. But I needed. I didn't want to feel lovey dovey.

 

For nearly 3 weeks I ignored her too. I profusely apologized later on, I told her why I felt the way I did. I felt guilty "loving" anyone". What kills me, overtime we had many arguments across 4 years. Every opportunity she got she would say "you monster, you left me to burn alone". I didn't, my sister died, thats a huge thing for me. I felt after we spoke, we had many fruitful years that were great, but every opportunity she got she would mention her ex, she mention that, and say how I am the "icing on the cake in her life".

 

Its over between her and I. But do you think she can sustain a healthy relationship with anyone, or will everything be the floor for her that someone does for her?

 

What hurts the most is, she called me the abuser, the monster, and yet it was her behavior and she always said, "you have too much ego".

 

Im just very upset because in my last moments with her family, and her, I was still pleasant and tried to be cordial. It was her family, who bashed and became defensive. I wish I knew what their intentions were, if anything she lied to her dad, to paint a wrong image of me just to show she was right.

 

In every argument her go to thing was, "why are you so full of ego, what do you have to offer me, you don't have a job or anything". This was the time I was a medical student. All she and her mom cared for was it seems was my weight. As a medical student, we get into eating spells that causes us to gain a bit of weight. She would argue and then mention how "you gained so much weight when you started medical school". I mean is that all these people see? And btw, I am not obese at all, I am about 6'2 240 pounds.

 

I did have a lot to offer, if anything, Ive gone out of my way to help people during the Ebola crisis by screening people at quarantine stations, working overnights in the ER as a EMT, I love serving humanity, and still I am striving to be a heart surgeon soon enough, and yet I get question, what I have to offer?

Edited by Lifesaver
more info
  • Like 1
Posted

She is too sick to ever appreciate you or anyone else. Find someone who will, and they are many. You sound like a great guy with a great future.

  • Like 2
Posted
Every opportunity she got she would say "you monster, you left me to burn alone". I didn't, my sister died, that's a huge thing for me.... What hurts the most is, she called me the abuser, the monster.
Lifesaver, if she is a BPDer, I believe you've got the cause-and-effect backwards. Your withdrawal for 3 weeks following your sister's death did not cause your ex-fiance to develop such painful feelings of abandonment that she now regards you as "the abuser, the monster." Rather, the opposite occurred. Her feelings of abandonment and engulfment are so strong that she is convinced they MUST have been caused by you. Like a young child, a BPDer believes that you (i.e., the parent in this parent/child relationship) are fully responsible for ensuring her happiness. She is too immature to realize that she is responsible for creating her own happiness.

 

Hence, when she is feeling frightened or unhappy, her conscious mind looks for anything you've done -- anything whatsoever -- that can explain why she is feeling so bad. Her mind needs some "logical" explanation for what it is you must have done wrong. It is a remarkable testament to your loving nature that, after four years of dating you, the worst event she can point to was the three weeks of neglect you showed while grieving the death of your sister.

 

Importantly, if your sister had never died and that neglectful 3 weeks had never occurred, your ex-finance STILL would be stuck with terrible feelings of emptiness and unhappiness. The only difference is that she would be pointing to some other mistake by you (real or imagined) as the apparent "cause" of her misery.

 

The way it typically works with a BPDer is that you will be idealized and adored during the courtship period. After 4 or 6 months, however, her infatuation will start to evaporate and her two fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- will quickly return. At that point, you will start triggering those fears and she will start perceiving of you as "The Perpetrator." As time goes on, your days of being split white will become increasingly diminished and your days of being split black will grow.

 

Due to having this childlike conviction that you and other adults are responsible for her happiness, a BPDer keeps a death grip on her false self image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." Because she needs frequent "validation" of this false self identity, she carries a mental list of your every misdeed and shortcoming (real or imagined). And she will not hesitate to pull out the ENTIRE list in any argument, no matter how trivial the issue.

 

My BPDer exW, for example, would frequently cite some terrible thing I supposedly had said 14 or 15 years earlier -- as proof that I was doing the very same thing to her again today. The incidents she cited were so far in the past that neither of us could actually remember what had been said. Indeed, BPDers usually start fights over events so minor that, a week later, neither party can recall what the fight had been about.

 

Do you think she can sustain a healthy relationship with anyone?
If she exhibits strong and persistent BPD traits, she likely has the emotional development of a four year old and thus cannot sustain a mature, healthy relationship -- unless she works hard in therapy for several years (at least). Most major cities offer excellent treatment programs for BPDers. Those programs (e.g., CBT and DBT) teach them the emotional skills they never had an opportunity to acquire in childhood.

 

But, sadly, it is rare for a high functioning BPDer to have the self awareness and ego strength required to remain in treatment long enough to make a difference. Indeed, it is rare for a HF BPDer to even seek treatment to begin with. Moreover, if she exhibits strong NPD traits as you suspect, her chances are reduced even further.

 

I am striving to be a heart surgeon soon enough, and yet I get questioned, what I have to offer?
As Preraph states above, "You sound like a great guy with a great future." Likewise, your surgeon said that your heart "is beating fine, and its beating for a reason because it wants to, you should too." You are going to do well.
  • Like 2
Posted

That's definitely a hard situation to be in but I think things will get better now as you move forward. Focus on medical school and things you want to do, now is the time to get the things done that you want to. I am glad your surgery went well also, good luck and take care of yourself.

  • Like 1
  • Author
Posted
Lifesaver, if she is a BPDer, I believe you've got the cause-and-effect backwards. Your withdrawal for 3 weeks following your sister's death did not cause your ex-fiance to develop such painful feelings of abandonment that she now regards you as "the abuser, the monster." Rather, the opposite occurred. Her feelings of abandonment and engulfment are so strong that she is convinced they MUST have been caused by you. Like a young child, a BPDer believes that you (i.e., the parent in this parent/child relationship) are fully responsible for ensuring her happiness. She is too immature to realize that she is responsible for creating her own happiness.

 

Hence, when she is feeling frightened or unhappy, her conscious mind looks for anything you've done -- anything whatsoever -- that can explain why she is feeling so bad. Her mind needs some "logical" explanation for what it is you must have done wrong. It is a remarkable testament to your loving nature that, after four years of dating you, the worst event she can point to was the three weeks of neglect you showed while grieving the death of your sister.

 

Importantly, if your sister had never died and that neglectful 3 weeks had never occurred, your ex-finance STILL would be stuck with terrible feelings of emptiness and unhappiness. The only difference is that she would be pointing to some other mistake by you (real or imagined) as the apparent "cause" of her misery.

 

The way it typically works with a BPDer is that you will be idealized and adored during the courtship period. After 4 or 6 months, however, her infatuation will start to evaporate and her two fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- will quickly return. At that point, you will start triggering those fears and she will start perceiving of you as "The Perpetrator." As time goes on, your days of being split white will become increasingly diminished and your days of being split black will grow.

 

Due to having this childlike conviction that you and other adults are responsible for her happiness, a BPDer keeps a death grip on her false self image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." Because she needs frequent "validation" of this false self identity, she carries a mental list of your every misdeed and shortcoming (real or imagined). And she will not hesitate to pull out the ENTIRE list in any argument, no matter how trivial the issue.

 

My BPDer exW, for example, would frequently cite some terrible thing I supposedly had said 14 or 15 years earlier -- as proof that I was doing the very same thing to her again today. The incidents she cited were so far in the past that neither of us could actually remember what had been said. Indeed, BPDers usually start fights over events so minor that, a week later, neither party can recall what the fight had been about.

 

If she exhibits strong and persistent BPD traits, she likely has the emotional development of a four year old and thus cannot sustain a mature, healthy relationship -- unless she works hard in therapy for several years (at least). Most major cities offer excellent treatment programs for BPDers. Those programs (e.g., CBT and DBT) teach them the emotional skills they never had an opportunity to acquire in childhood.

 

But, sadly, it is rare for a high functioning BPDer to have the self awareness and ego strength required to remain in treatment long enough to make a difference. Indeed, it is rare for a HF BPDer to even seek treatment to begin with. Moreover, if she exhibits strong NPD traits as you suspect, her chances are reduced even further.

 

As Preraph states above, "You sound like a great guy with a great future." Likewise, your surgeon said that your heart "is beating fine, and its beating for a reason because it wants to, you should too." You are going to do well.

 

Sorry for the late reply. I had a lot of pain and had to go to the doctors for a quick check up. It was from my cardiac rehab.

 

Thanks for your in put as always. It just kills me now, that herself and her father showed no remorse. As shameful as it sounds, I had to go to the hospital the night this happened as I had a tachycardia spell. I told her father this, and he basically said "well your parents should be taking care of you". I mean if it was my parents, my parents would have come to me saying "look man, go see her in the hospital, wrong or right, right now she needs you".

 

I literally cried on the phone infront of her dad that I can't believe she accused me like this, and he basically very quickly wanted to end the phone call and say "just hope for the best, you need to sleep, good night".

 

I feel gutted that I was involved with such a pathetic family. Even my worst enemies had a bit more for me than this scum. I sound angry, and I am, it kills me that 4 years, I sent them wedding anniversary presents, or any other holiday Id call them, or wish them on their birthday and in the end, Im not even worthy of consideration.

 

Im much better overall, just a bit angry, I don't miss her, the way I see it, her ceiling is my floor and I know Im going to accomplish amazing things in life.

 

She can enjoy her worthless life, victimizing herself and you are right, nothing will ever be enough for her.

Posted
Sorry for the late reply. I had a lot of pain and had to go to the doctors for a quick check up. It was from my cardiac rehab.

 

Thanks for your in put as always. It just kills me now, that herself and her father showed no remorse. As shameful as it sounds, I had to go to the hospital the night this happened as I had a tachycardia spell. I told her father this, and he basically said "well your parents should be taking care of you". I mean if it was my parents, my parents would have come to me saying "look man, go see her in the hospital, wrong or right, right now she needs you".

 

I literally cried on the phone infront of her dad that I can't believe she accused me like this, and he basically very quickly wanted to end the phone call and say "just hope for the best, you need to sleep, good night".

 

I feel gutted that I was involved with such a pathetic family. Even my worst enemies had a bit more for me than this scum. I sound angry, and I am, it kills me that 4 years, I sent them wedding anniversary presents, or any other holiday Id call them, or wish them on their birthday and in the end, Im not even worthy of consideration.

 

Im much better overall, just a bit angry, I don't miss her, the way I see it, her ceiling is my floor and I know Im going to accomplish amazing things in life.

 

She can enjoy her worthless life, victimizing herself and you are right, nothing will ever be enough for her.

 

Lifesaver,

I completely understand how you feel.

I have a feeling that your ex's parents cannot bring themselves owning up that their daughter is a mental case. Image is everything for a narcissist, so if this is what the daughter inherited from dad.....then it's pointless trying to convince the crazies :) They possibly portray the image of all good daughter and the meany ex (you). Who cares ? Please don't second guess yourself, you were absolutely right about breaking up with her ! This girl "ain't a catch" by any means. You know that all of her next relationships will turn to ****....maybe someone notice a pattern that time.

It is not your problem anymore. Keep moving forward, never look back, it is a blessing that you don't have to spend anymore time with her. You are still sad because it's a fresh experience , but a few months down the road you will be laughing, saying " WHAT WAS I THINKING ? " :)

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Posted
Lifesaver,

I completely understand how you feel.

I have a feeling that your ex's parents cannot bring themselves owning up that their daughter is a mental case. Image is everything for a narcissist, so if this is what the daughter inherited from dad.....then it's pointless trying to convince the crazies :) They possibly portray the image of all good daughter and the meany ex (you). Who cares ? Please don't second guess yourself, you were absolutely right about breaking up with her ! This girl "ain't a catch" by any means. You know that all of her next relationships will turn to ****....maybe someone notice a pattern that time.

It is not your problem anymore. Keep moving forward, never look back, it is a blessing that you don't have to spend anymore time with her. You are still sad because it's a fresh experience , but a few months down the road you will be laughing, saying " WHAT WAS I THINKING ? " :)

 

Its very scary how literally all of what everyone has said, including you are spot on about her and her family. I mean they painted the picture of their daughter as being the pious one. Thing is she was good at hiding her true self or what was in her heart. I on the other hand, was sluggish in that, I am very real, you can tell from my face if I am upset or happy, or if something you said, is bothering me.

 

But that is me, I am a very raw person. You are right, her mom used to tell me "how you'll never meet anyone like her". My parents would never say that, good or bad. They let me success do the talking for me.

 

In any case, I am currently hoping my post op goes well and I return back to medical school soon so I can finish what I started.

 

Just, I hope my heart break heals soon. I am tired of feeling miserable.

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Posted

I am curious to hear, if I ever have relapse of having strong emotions of being sad, what is the best way to counter that? These days I am having it a lot because July 7-9 was supposed to be our wedding and sadly I cross the hotel where we were supposed to have it as I go to cardiac rehab.

Posted
If I ever have relapse of having strong emotions of being sad, what is the best way to counter that?

Lifesaver, there are two insights I found to be most helpful during the relapses -- and you WILL have relapses. The first insight was my realization that the healing process is not linear. Like healing from a torn muscle, healing from a deep emotional loss proceeds in fits and starts. This means that there will be there will be days when you wake up and suddenly feel like you are right back at square one -- i.e., feel as though you've made no progress at all. Although the feeling itself is very real, it is important to realize YOU DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE IT.

 

Because your relationship lasted nearly five years, you can expect these bad days to keep recurring for perhaps a year. What will likely happen is that, instead of stopping after a few months, those days will become spaced further and further apart until -- eventually -- they don't reoccur at all. This is the way the normal healing process works. Hence, having a bad day does not mean you've lost your progress or that you are back at step one.

 

The second insight that greatly helped me was my realization that learning about my exW's problem (BPD) and my problem (excessive caregiving) is the easy part. What is difficult is internalizing that understanding, i.e., transforming knowledge into wisdom, which requires that my feelings catch up with my intellectual thoughts.

 

Simply stated, I must persuade the intuitive "child" part of my mind that the intellectual understanding by the logical "adult" part of my mind is correct. I had to close the huge gap between my feelings and rational thoughts so that, at a gut level, I truly believed that my intellectual insights were true.

 

Had I failed in that effort, I would have remained stuck in a destructive pattern, repeating my past mistakes over and over, because my child will be calling nearly all the shots. The child makes most of our important decisions because it is that intuitive, emotional center of our minds that determines what we enjoy, who we love, and where we want to go.

 

Hence, it is important to realize that a struggle is going on in your mind between your intuitive child and logical adult. Because I had been in a 15 year relationship, it took me two years to bring my child's feelings into close alignment with my adult's understanding.

 

After just two weeks of intense reading on the Internet, I had a pretty good understanding of what I needed to do to get out of the toxic relationship and why I needed to do it. Yet, because my child was lagging far behind my adult, the child sabotaged my every effort to break away.

 

It hindered me with nagging doubts, terrible guilt, and a strong feeling of obligation. It kept telling me that the theory floating around in the adult part of my mind was an insufficient basis on which to wholly abandon a loved one. The result was that, a year after I had left her, I still refused to go No Contact for eight more months, at which point I finally realized she is incapable of ever being my friend.

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Posted (edited)

Just wanted to update everyone that after a few weeks of soul searching and what not, I am doing much much better now that I realize a bit that we were two different on different spectrums. From what I gathered is that...

 

I am very type A, in that I am career oriented, I have a lot going in terms of career prospects. Yes I struggled to get to where I am. Getting into a US medical school is very hard, and that requires a lot of sacrifice. For her this meant being "miserable", her thought in life is, "make 50K a year, work a 9 to 5, and just pay the bills". Thats fine, thats her predicament, and for anyone else wanting that, its fine, but for me, life is much more than just paying bills, and doing the 9 to 5 thing. For me its about knowing someone is alive tonight because of my tangible intervention as a physician. That takes sacrifice. I want people to know I existed for good reason in that I saved lives and served humanity.

 

She was very poetic and victimized herself by siding with literature that had feministic quoatations. Thats fine, but there was no action on her part. I realized we would have arguments, petty ones, and I would tell her, how come she is being a fair weather friend? Her response was "there was never any fair weather", meaning, she was looking for an easy road of sorts? Yes being a physician (future), has its rewards, monetary of course but for me it wasn't ever about the money. Money can be made many ways, for me its about serving humanity.

 

I want my kids to look at me and say, their dad did something profoundly amazing with his life, and didn't sit there and victimize himself and say "the job market" is bad so I stuck with my 9 to 5.

 

These days, I took many trips overseas, by the good fortune of my brother being a pilot, I get to fly around for free, so meeting people in bars and from different walks of life, many people have told me one simple thing. "You can have all the arguments, fighting and what not you can have, the fact she wasn't at your bedside knowing you had surgery soon, says a lot, she could have stopped all this, told her parents, no, he is a bit ill, he needs me, lets drop this and talk about it later, the fact she didnt, says a lot".

 

I do have relapses, I realize I get sad when I go out looking at a happy couple holding hands, and with their child on the shoulders of the dad thinking that could have been us. I just turned 31, and hoping I meet my soulmate soon.

 

Its disgusting to think that I used to drive 30 minutes a day to see her for 1 hour, drop her, pick her up, take her out when I can, order her food from class, take her to shopping sprees, call her parents on their birthdays, mothers day, fathers day, etc. And in the end, it literally came down to a measure of how much comfort she wanted. In the end I got slapped with "well I tried to love you, its not like you loved me either". This **** hurts thats all. Its amazing it came down to, why "does the guy get to have any say in choosing the wedding hall, why does the guy have any say in naming the kids, it should ONLY be the girl". It was this sort of crap I was dealing with.

Edited by Lifesaver
Posted

To me, life is about self-actualization. The continual striving to be the best you can be.

 

That should be your focus.

 

I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't be hurt. However, use everything about this relationship as an opportunity to learn and grow. The good and the bad. Learn, then move on with your life. See it as preparation for the your next relationship. Which may be the love of your life. You never know.

 

Some people come into our lives only for a season. The key is to use the experience - good or bad - to enhance your life.

 

Complete medical school. Face the rest of your life with confidence. Believing that your experiences were a mere stepping stone to a brighter future.

"Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all." - Alfred Lord Tennyson

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Posted

I think the other aspect is also seeing what role you had in the whole thing. It's easy to blame everything on someone else being "Terrible" and that's the mentality a lot of the time - and perhaps it's true, but victimizing yourself doesn't help either. Not in the sense of blaming yourself, but figuring out how to identify what you need in a relationship.

 

People needlessly staying in relationships where both people aren't happy doesn't make sense. And for that long. I've been there as well and honestly, it takes 2 to clap.Sticking to a victim mentality doesn't help you either and just leads to more anger/resentment.

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Posted
I think the other aspect is also seeing what role you had in the whole thing. It's easy to blame everything on someone else being "Terrible" and that's the mentality a lot of the time - and perhaps it's true, but victimizing yourself doesn't help either. Not in the sense of blaming yourself, but figuring out how to identify what you need in a relationship.

 

People needlessly staying in relationships where both people aren't happy doesn't make sense. And for that long. I've been there as well and honestly, it takes 2 to clap.Sticking to a victim mentality doesn't help you either and just leads to more anger/resentment.

 

You are indeed right, it takes two to clap, and no I am not victimizing myself. I just am heart broken in its rawest form. I never thought that we would ever part, we had our issues, but we always made up, and we both always apologized for our parts, and I always thought we were mature for it.

 

My fault from all this is that, I was going through a lot. For example, when I had met her, a few months shortly after, my sister died, I had to withdraw from my previous medical school. I needed some time, and hence did not talk to her much as I was processing what had just transpired. I later explained to her, and told her, and understood eventually and told her, Im sorry but this was a first time thing for me, in loosing a blood relative so close. We had our differences going forward, like I said, I love my career, but I also wanted to raise a family. I had no issue in her being a stay at home mom. I don't think she was evil, she just couldn't handle the fact that I had heart surgery soon, and that me being in medical school, she left at a very critical time. Furthermore, my fault, I always gave into her, in that, she didnt like the first ring I got her, she wanted to return it, I said no, it holds a sentimental value, but despite that, I got her what she wanted. If anything I fed this behavior in some sense to a point where she should she could get away with anything.

 

It got to a point where when it came time to picking a venue, she thought she could do it again have her away. I understand as a woman she was looking forward to this day, but so was I. I only intend to marry once. Im old fashioned a bit. I too wanted to get married a certain way, so we agreed on a very nice venue in a 5 star hotel (Marriott). She agreed, her parents agreed, my parents agreed. We all signed it together. Yet after a week she blasted me with "you have no right to decide, this was my day, and you stole it from me, you have your entire career, and yet you still have your way".

 

This is what I dealt with, its almost as if someone (her evil sister) was dictating her after time because her sister was dealing with her own failing marriage. Side note, I should mention, her sisters' husband actually came to "marry" my ex fiancé FIRST many years ago, but then "fell in love" with the older sister. How this was allowed by her parents, I have no idea, heck, I would never do that to my own brother no matter how much I love the girl. The older sister was in a jealous complex in that she had to move overseas away from her parents, whereas my ex fiancé would be able to live nearby both our homes in the same state.

 

Again, my fault, was that whenever we got in a fight, my way of solving issues was, "lets take a step back, take some time off to cool and regather". Her thing was "no you are abandoning me, you can't do this, you need to talk right now", this lead to assumptions and issues. First day of medical school, I had to study with my friends, and I forgot to tell her I was studying. She got mad, I said we can talk about it at night. She blocked me on FB, turned her phone off in response and said "so this is how it will be, you will just leave me to burn, while you go make your career".

 

At times I felt she was insecure in that she didnt have a proper career whereas me, being a medical student, work as a Ebola consultant for the CDC, I had established myself well. But despite that, I told her how much I loved her, she's the mother of my kids, and Im proud to call her my future wife.

 

It just sucks that, in the end she did all that, and put it on her father and mom, in that they had a million issues with me. It kills me to think that in the end it came down to "you have too many issues, first medical school and now health issues, I need to relax as I am on vacation". No matter what, I could never say that to anyone. Even if my ex gf came to me just wanting to talk, Id probably be there. Its called humanity, and its something Ive learned from my career.

Posted

It really sounds like you dodge a bullet.

 

She never loved you by what you have wrote up.

 

Your school was to better both of your lives but she beat you over the head with it.

 

Read No More Mr Nice Guy. You treated her with all kindness and she treated you like a dog, and you let her do this.

 

Always treat a lady with respect and kindness. But never let anyone walk over you.

 

Good luck with medical school. Keep healthy as well.

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Posted

I think that's the issue a lot of the time. We should never let anyone walk over you. Or change your fundamentals. I've been on the other side, and sometimes you don't even realize that you're doing this to someone else - especially if all they do is appease you and say they're wrong and they'll do better. Hindsight is 20/20. I do think there's major issues with her behaviour, but you appeasing her didn't help it either.

 

Anyone always has the right to say - enough is enough, I don't like the way this is going. And give the person options to make changes. I don't know if you did that. I know hindsight is 20/20 and it seems clear now, but I think if someone had that to me early on, I would not have done the things and said the things I had done that were hurtful.

 

Not saying this person is the same - some people will not remorseful and just because they don't regulate emotions well doesn't mean they are necessarily good people. But some people have to work harder than everyone else to regulate their emotions - it doesn't give them an excuse, but some compassionate understanding (and not appeasing but trying to really get at the root of the problem) could make a huge difference for some - not all, but some.

 

Why did she feel abandoned? Sometimes people act a certain way because they can't help it. Sure it seems demanding, but sometimes people just feel so crummy inside and they don't know how to express it. OF course at the end of the day, it's your choice whether you can deal with that - and whether the other person is willing to make changes.

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Posted
I think that's the issue a lot of the time. We should never let anyone walk over you. Or change your fundamentals. I've been on the other side, and sometimes you don't even realize that you're doing this to someone else - especially if all they do is appease you and say they're wrong and they'll do better. Hindsight is 20/20. I do think there's major issues with her behaviour, but you appeasing her didn't help it either.

 

Anyone always has the right to say - enough is enough, I don't like the way this is going. And give the person options to make changes. I don't know if you did that. I know hindsight is 20/20 and it seems clear now, but I think if someone had that to me early on, I would not have done the things and said the things I had done that were hurtful.

 

Not saying this person is the same - some people will not remorseful and just because they don't regulate emotions well doesn't mean they are necessarily good people. But some people have to work harder than everyone else to regulate their emotions - it doesn't give them an excuse, but some compassionate understanding (and not appeasing but trying to really get at the root of the problem) could make a huge difference for some - not all, but some.

 

Why did she feel abandoned? Sometimes people act a certain way because they can't help it. Sure it seems demanding, but sometimes people just feel so crummy inside and they don't know how to express it. OF course at the end of the day, it's your choice whether you can deal with that - and whether the other person is willing to make changes.

 

Abandoned? I may have an idea, she was always blamed for things her other siblings did as a child. For example, if the older sister messed up something, then she got beat for it. Yes beat, she had an abusive father (according to her). I tried my best to show her a side that not all men are the same.

 

I wount lie there were times when I did get mad. She would then extrapolate it from that, "oh so youre going to hit me huh, youre just going to leave me to burn right?". Trust me, I never ever laid a hand on her. I felt like, she may have had some PTSD, and she was very very scared of her father. If her father knew we got in a argument, she would be scared, and say, he knows, we need to sort this out through him, before this can continue. Its almost as if she didnt have a mind of her own, almost as if her sister and her father dictated things for her.

 

According to her, her mother and father had no relationship, and judging by her sisters marriage, she was always complaining against her husband. This was evident through her sisters FB postings on how shes always the victim, and how men mistreat women. I noticed an overall trend here. Abusive father led to a belief system in her mind that all men are like this.

 

As it stands, I am just having a hard time digesting, was there anything I could have done, or was I just doomed from the start? I did everything I could. I mean I would come out of surgery lab, just to buy her panera bread for lunch just so she knows Im not in lab 10 hours a day not thinking about her.

 

You are right, there were chances when I could have intervened, but I didnt, frankly because I felt I had a beautiful thing going with her. When it was good, it was awesome, we would get along great, its when things went south, she would freak out, or if her family found out there was some sort of problem, she would freak out. In the end, she made the baseless claim to her dad, "hes going to hit me", which complete BS frankly, because I turned around and told her dad, "sir, if anything, I think you probably hit her, not me, if anything when she was sick, I was the one who came to your door step to give her soup, meds, and her redbox movies".

Posted

I can't speak to specifically about your fiancé, and it's great that you did those things, I'm sure they were out of care. But if you felt that she didn't appreciate you- you need to vocalize those things. You need to realize what you actually need in the relationship - and if she continues lashing out and not reciprocating, and doing things you can not ultimately tolerate, then you make a choice to help her change (if she is willing to recognize it) or you just leave. Waiting until things completely break is too late.

Posted

And everyone is different - and it takes a special person to be able to love and stay with someone who goes through these difficult to understand emotions. And it has to be worth it for you in the end. That's a difficult question only you and ex-fiance can answer - whether it's worth it in the end despite all the difficulties.

 

I believe that with true love - it is worth it in the end. It doesn't mean you take on whatever crap someone throws at you, but if you see hope of change, then you stay with them during the hard times. And help them get better. And the rewards is doing something for someone you love. And it's about setting boundaries for yourself.

  • Author
Posted (edited)
And everyone is different - and it takes a special person to be able to love and stay with someone who goes through these difficult to understand emotions. And it has to be worth it for you in the end. That's a difficult question only you and ex-fiance can answer - whether it's worth it in the end despite all the difficulties.

 

I believe that with true love - it is worth it in the end. It doesn't mean you take on whatever crap someone throws at you, but if you see hope of change, then you stay with them during the hard times. And help them get better. And the rewards is doing something for someone you love. And it's about setting boundaries for yourself.

 

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

 

To be honest, I am done with her. For a number of reasons, when I pressed her for making a childish decision in how she reacted by telling her dad, her dad came flying at me defending her, where she failed to tell how she did me wrong. Her dad basically didnt let me talk to her, and she hung up the phone, blocked me on FB, etc, its almost as if the family didnt want this. My parents too got very upset after knowing all this because they saw me going out to buy her favorite things, matching up different thigns on her card to her gift bag with her favorite colors.

 

In the end what caused me to throw is away was when I told her shes making a mistake, and her reply "So this is how much you respect me huh, you dont have respect for me, if only you had a sister". This she was talking about my dead sister.

 

At that point I said in my heart, "get out of my life". No one talks abut my sister in vain like that. Also she was a "practical" person according to her, she needed her needs met and had very little contribution to the relationship. Being a medical student with health issues (open heart surgery) probably meant for her "ok hes going to die soon", because in a arguement once, she said it to me, "i feel like Im with someone who will die one day".

 

God willingly, Im alive and well. Hell, my surgeon told me, my heart was beating on its own after being on bypass, and after nearly 10 hours it was ready to go.

 

I just feel insecure and sad inside that I wount meet anyone ever again. Its consuming me a bit. I want someone to appreciate my profession, the way I have admiration for saving a life in medicine.

Edited by Lifesaver
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