What does it truly take to test a relationship? Abusive | Immature | Jealous partner

[Sylvester91]

Hey folks. I normally never write such stuff on the net, but am really in a state of loss, anger, and pain. I've tried to be as brief and short, however it's still lenghty...

 

Me (25) and my GF (22) have been in a relationship for 3.5 years now. That‘s a long time investment to begin with. We‘re currently on the verge of a break up. In the beginning, we had tremendous things in common in terms of music, cinema, love for similiar things, had alike virtues in life. Physical atraction was perfect, and so it seemed emotionally it‘s been fulfilling. It‘s been the best 1-2 years of my life and a serious relationship with no third parties involved.

 

I myself by no means haven‘t been perfect, but tried my best, and was willing to improve. However within the last 2 years or so have been noticing how increasingly emotionally manipulative and abusive she was becoming. It would get better, than worse, but in never stopped. I‘m more than assured that she essentially has a mixture of personality disorders such as Borderline, Narcissistic, Antisocial, Histrionic maybe. Cool combo right.

 

Background of hers:

She has extremely low self-esteem despite being gorgeous physically and is insecure, has been bullied throughout the school, has been raised by grandparents therefore very spoiled, never seen any type of parenting or a discipline shown. Has serious jealousy issues and loves drama to death. Has never had a father or a mother giving construct criticism/guidance. Has distorted body image and thinks she‘s never good enough and spends tremendous time on her appearance/body so is always late. She has parents but they clearly don‘t give a **** about her to a point where I practically wanna punch them in a face. She‘s grown very naive about life, hates any critique or advices, and is emotionally immature and unstable. She also has a chain of depression and suicidal attempts in her family as well as mental illnesses and drug abuse (her father).

 

She now got to a point where she has vague goals in live, constantly changes her mind to the point of absurd, lacks direction, extremely concerned about other‘s opinions of her, has never had a real job, whatever she starts she quits because she cannot handle even a mild critique from other people or any hardship. She‘s still fully being supported by her grandparents at 22.

 

Psychosis and jealousy issues:

Issues started when she began to stalk me and accuse me of constantly looking at other women‘s body parts, no matter how untrue that was, and constantly would make me feel guilty for that.

 

1. If a banner or some lady friend suggestion would pop up on the screen – Drama and false accusations.

2. If a woman would look at me in public, and I‘d noticed it – Drama and false accusations.

3. If some guy friend invites me for a beer – Drama and accusations.

4. If we‘re watching a film and there‘s a woman who‘s at least decent looking – she‘s pissed off and reacts like a child bashing the film instantly.

5. Constant proves are needed for my loyalty, however, unless proven, I‘m always guilty. Proves have never been good either.

 

As this is not a suprise, all the above things applied to me, but not her – double standards has always been her normal reality.

 

All this had reached the level where the psychosis, and such lame unreasonable behavior is destroying the sanity. At the same time it‘s 3 years of honest endevour and time spent. I‘ve offered psych. Consultations/sessions and at some pont she agreed to adress these issues, however it never came to realization. I‘ve told her multiple times that if she doesn‘t adress her jealousy issues, we‘re done. She would always react hysterically and was afraid I‘ll dump her one day.

 

Why am I still debating, am I a moron?

 

The reason we‘re still together is obvious: she‘s attractive, has never been materialistic and never ever tried to leech money out of me. This is the only person I‘ve managed to establish a true connection with. Plus we‘ve had true things in common and felt happy together. I honestly thought her psyche can be treated. Our relationship has been pretty decent lately.

 

After I returned from visiting my parents, being as unstable as she is, out of the blue (within 5 days) she decided that it‘s better for us to end the relationship, as I‘m not giving her enough understanding and attention. I‘m all about practical aspects of life (when I work hard and try go make it better for us) blah blah. She states that at 22, her priorities are finding new people, form new friendships, and have “a higher purpose in life”, which is hippie based having fun, travelling, experiencing new things and getting stoned, basically.

We rent a flat together, and I‘m extremely angry and pissed off as this is not only mean and disrespectful to make decisions behind someone else's back. I‘m financialy in a bad situation also.

 

If any of you have been in a simmiliar relationship, your insights are appreciated and welcomed... Thanks in advance.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Sylvester91

[PegNosePete]

she‘s attractive, has never been materialistic and never ever tried to leech money out of me. This is the only person I‘ve managed to establish a true connection with. Plus we‘ve had true things in common and felt happy together. I honestly thought her psyche can be treated.

There are many other attractive people out there. This is hardly a unique trait.

 

There are many other non-materialistic people out there.

 

At age 25 and having been with someone for 3.5 years, how many people have you TRIED to establish a true connection with?

 

There are many other people who share things in common and you can be happy with.

 

And most important. There are plenty of other women who match all of the above but don't come with all of her negative traits.

 

After I returned from visiting my parents, being as unstable as she is, out of the blue (within 5 days) she decided that it‘s better for us to end the relationship

I would strongly advise you to take this opportunity she has given you to end the relationship. It can be extremely difficult to escape from this kind of relationship, as you have found out in the past when you've mentioned ending it, she has gone off at the deep end. She has handed you the perfect opportunity on a plate, you should definitely take it. In fact it doesn't sound as though she's giving you a choice, she has dumped you? Although it's likely she'll change her mind and ask for you back, I would very much advise you to say "no sorry I feel it is better to end the relationship".

 

I‘m financialy in a bad situation also.

Yes, but you can recover from debt much faster than you can recover your sanity damage done to your mental state from staying with someone as troubled as your GF (ex?).

 

If any of you have been in a simmiliar relationship, your insights are appreciated and welcomed... Thanks in advance.

I spent many years with someone who sounds very similar to your (ex) GF and the above advice is based on my experiences. It is completely amazing to move on and find someone new who does NOT have all these issues. I only wish I could have been given advice like this, so I didn't waste so much of my youth on such a dysfunctional relationship. She is not functional to be in a relationship with ANYONE. Don't martyr yourself. You've sacrificed enough of your own happiness already.

 

Even if she does (eventually) get better, there's a good chance the relationship won't survive the required changes in her personality. What often happens is that when she is better, she realises she is attractive and can get any man she wants... and starts to wonder if you're truly the one for her... she will be grateful to you for helping her get better but that won't be enough for her to stay with you. After all, when she got with you, she thought you were the only one who would ever like her. I've seen this kind of thing many times, with either mental issues, dramatic weight loss, cosmetic surgery, etc. As soon a she realises she's desirable and can take her pick, she starts to wonder why she's settling for the only guy she could get when she was ill. Add in the fact that you're pretty miserable too after being ground down looking after an ill person for so long, whereas all the other guys are happy and great, and it's very unlikely the relationship will survive.

Edited May 17, 2017 by PegNosePete

[Sylvester91]

Thanks for replying!

 

Well, it gets down to the fact, that I feel very disconnected with people in general. I work in communication and have no prob. talking to other people, however I never seem to find the genuine connection on an intimate level.

 

I‘m experienced enough to know, having dated 20-30 women within a year at one point (no sex or serious relationship, just real dates, real communication) and having relationships before, that most woman don‘t give a **** about the fact that you work out, work hard to take care of yourself, have interesting hobbies, or look for serious relationship.

 

I‘m that type of a guy who has spent 19 years of my life living extremely secluded not having anyone to relate to due to small town environment. I've been a loner for the majority of my life, and that's painful and scary place to be in. Had been fighting the depression myself in the past. Mainly due to not having at least one true person to truly relate to.

 

I‘m busy enough also, I work a **** job at the call centre and can now burn my bachelor‘s degree. Not to brag, but I‘m a good looking, no drugs / alchohol, workout 3-4 times a week and have been doing this for years, also working hard on a small business with a buddy of mine and seek financial independence.

 

I‘m extremely tired of superficial stuff and cannot stand shallow people, therefore probably never had a one night stand even though could have had multiple I turned them down.

 

 

Most of our late fighting is over the fact, that she has as lot of free time after the job search, and constantly complains about not going out enough, not experiencing enough, not having enough fun (whereas I bust my ass off trying to make something for myself and for her, am being accused a workaholic whose interests are very pragmatic and almost dull. She also complaints me not engaging enough in philosphy talks with her about abstract and random things.

 

She'd laugh about her current state in the past by the way, but people reveal themselves I guess.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Sylvester91

[PegNosePete]

You sound exactly like me, 15 years ago.

 

Just because you don't feel you can get anyone better, doesn't mean you should settle for someone who is going to destroy your life and sanity. She doesn't seem to think you're a very good boyfriend and she's clearly settling for you, too. I guarantee if/when she gets better, you will be dust in her rearview mirror. She's using you as a financial / mental crutch because she can't cope on her own right now. But as soon as she can cope...

 

She's not doing it deliberately - it's just part of her illness. But it's dragging you down and ruining your life as well. Can you imagine what will happen in 10 years time when she finally (a) gets better and dumps you (b) is exactly the same as now or © gets hospitalised or takes her own life? You will be in exactly the situation you are now, only 10 years older.

 

I very strongly advise you to bail out NOW while you've got a golden opportunity. It is hard, yes. But you have to think about your future. You will NOT find everlasting happiness with this woman. Bailing now will be MUCH easier than reconciling and trying to bail later.

Edited May 17, 2017 by PegNosePete

[Redhead14]

Hey folks. I normally never write such stuff on the net, but am really in a state of loss, anger, and pain. I've tried to be as brief and short, however it's still lenghty...

 

Me (25) and my GF (22) have been in a relationship for 3.5 years now. That‘s a long time investment to begin with. We‘re currently on the verge of a break up. In the beginning, we had tremendous things in common in terms of music, cinema, love for similiar things, had alike virtues in life. Physical atraction was perfect, and so it seemed emotionally it‘s been fulfilling. It‘s been the best 1-2 years of my life and a serious relationship with no third parties involved.

 

I myself by no means haven‘t been perfect, but tried my best, and was willing to improve. However within the last 2 years or so have been noticing how increasingly emotionally manipulative and abusive she was becoming. It would get better, than worse, but in never stopped. I‘m more than assured that she essentially has a mixture of personality disorders such as Borderline, Narcissistic, Antisocial, Histrionic maybe. Cool combo right.

 

Background of hers:

She has extremely low self-esteem despite being gorgeous physically and is insecure, has been bullied throughout the school, has been raised by grandparents therefore very spoiled, never seen any type of parenting or a discipline shown. Has serious jealousy issues and loves drama to death. Has never had a father or a mother giving construct criticism/guidance. Has distorted body image and thinks she‘s never good enough and spends tremendous time on her appearance/body so is always late. She has parents but they clearly don‘t give a **** about her to a point where I practically wanna punch them in a face. She‘s grown very naive about life, hates any critique or advices, and is emotionally immature and unstable. She also has a chain of depression and suicidal attempts in her family as well as mental illnesses and drug abuse (her father).

 

She now got to a point where she has vague goals in live, constantly changes her mind to the point of absurd, lacks direction, extremely concerned about other‘s opinions of her, has never had a real job, whatever she starts she quits because she cannot handle even a mild critique from other people or any hardship. She‘s still fully being supported by her grandparents at 22.

 

Psychosis and jealousy issues:

Issues started when she began to stalk me and accuse me of constantly looking at other women‘s body parts, no matter how untrue that was, and constantly would make me feel guilty for that.

 

1. If a banner or some lady friend suggestion would pop up on the screen – Drama and false accusations.

2. If a woman would look at me in public, and I‘d noticed it – Drama and false accusations.

3. If some guy friend invites me for a beer – Drama and accusations.

4. If we‘re watching a film and there‘s a woman who‘s at least decent looking – she‘s pissed off and reacts like a child bashing the film instantly.

5. Constant proves are needed for my loyalty, however, unless proven, I‘m always guilty. Proves have never been good either.

 

As this is not a suprise, all the above things applied to me, but not her – double standards has always been her normal reality.

 

All this had reached the level where the psychosis, and such lame unreasonable behavior is destroying the sanity. At the same time it‘s 3 years of honest endevour and time spent. I‘ve offered psych. Consultations/sessions and at some pont she agreed to adress these issues, however it never came to realization. I‘ve told her multiple times that if she doesn‘t adress her jealousy issues, we‘re done. She would always react hysterically and was afraid I‘ll dump her one day.

 

Why am I still debating, am I a moron?

 

The reason we‘re still together is obvious: she‘s attractive, has never been materialistic and never ever tried to leech money out of me. This is the only person I‘ve managed to establish a true connection with. Plus we‘ve had true things in common and felt happy together. I honestly thought her psyche can be treated. Our relationship has been pretty decent lately.

 

After I returned from visiting my parents, being as unstable as she is, out of the blue (within 5 days) she decided that it‘s better for us to end the relationship, as I‘m not giving her enough understanding and attention. I‘m all about practical aspects of life (when I work hard and try go make it better for us) blah blah. She states that at 22, her priorities are finding new people, form new friendships, and have “a higher purpose in life”, which is hippie based having fun, travelling, experiencing new things and getting stoned, basically.

We rent a flat together, and I‘m extremely angry and pissed off as this is not only mean and disrespectful to make decisions behind someone else's back. I‘m financialy in a bad situation also.

 

If any of you have been in a simmiliar relationship, your insights are appreciated and welcomed... Thanks in advance.

 

My friend, now is a time for self-reflection. Someone who allows themselves to be exposed to and who tolerates this kind of treatment, themselves, has some esteem issues that need to be dealt with. This is essentially a co-dependent relationship -- just a little clue for you.

 

I honestly thought her psyche can be treated. -- It can be, but not by YOU.

 

I‘ve told her multiple times that if she doesn‘t adress her jealousy issues, we‘re done -- Tolerating and using threats over and over again is actually enabling her behavior.

 

For your own good and for the possibility of moving forward with your life, you need to end this relationship right now so that the damage YOU suffer can be at least minimized and then dealt with properly.

 

She is not a suitable partner for anyone. When you open your eyes to that fact, you should be able to move on and do what's good for YOU.

[Altair0770]

Some of them want to use you

Some of them want to be used by you

Some of them want to abuse you

Some of them want to be abused by you

 

 

I listen to this song often. I have a narcissistic ex that put me through hell, to the point I became mentally unstable. It sucks. You and I seem to be the last line of that chorus. We want the person we had the connection with back, but in these cases, that is gone and probably not coming back.

 

If she's narcissistic, no matter how much it hurts, be glad you got out. I'm still pinning on my relationship with hopes she'll realize the gem she struck and tossed out, but logically I know I dodged a bullet and don't want to go back to being abused. Emotionally? That's the tough part.

[Downtown]

Sylvester, welcome to the LoveShack forum. I agree with the excellent advice already given by PegNose, RedHead, and Altair.

 

She essentially has a mixture of personality disorders such as Borderline, Narcissistic, Antisocial, Histrionic maybe.

You are wise to suspect a "mixture." A recent study found that 3/4 of BPD sufferers also exhibit one or two other PDs as well. Of course, only a professional can determine whether your GF's BPD symptoms are so severe and persistent as to constitute full-blown BPD. But simply spotting BPD symptoms (i.e., warning signs) is easy after you've been dating a person for 3 years. Indeed, you would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind not to spot symptoms such as temper tantrums and verbal abuse.

 

I agree with you that the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational jealousy, controlling actions, verbal abuse, low self esteem, easily triggered temper tantrums, emotional instability, lack of impulse control, love of drama, stalking, and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). If you're interested, I provide a more complete list of red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs.

 

Importantly, I'm not suggesting your GF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit strong traits of it. Yet, for the purposes of deciding whether she would make a good lifetime partner, it really does not matter whether she satisfies 100% of the BPD diagnostic criteria (thus "having BPD") or only 80% (thus "not having BPD"). A woman satisfying only 70% or 80% of those criteria likely will be as nearly impossible to live with as one satisfying all 100%.

 

All this had reached the level where the psychosis, and such lame unreasonable behavior is destroying the sanity.

You are not describing psychosis. Nor are you describing insanity. Psychosis and insanity occur whenever a person loses touch with physical reality. In contrast, people suffering from a PD typically see physical reality just fine. What is distorted is their perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations. Significantly, this distortion occurs in ALL of us whenever we experience intense feelings. It occurs far more frequently and more strongly in BPDers because, given their inability to regulate emotions, they experience intense feelings far more often.

 

Why am I still debating, am I a moron?

No, Sylvester, you are "still debating" because gaining an intellectual understanding of your GF's behavior is the EASY part. What is HARD is persuading the intuitive, emotional part of your mind that this new information is true. This next step is essential because it will be extremely difficult to leave your GF until you resolve that struggle between your "intuitive child" and "logical adult." Because the child typically lags behind the adult for many months, it takes time to close that gap. In my case, it took me over a year to bring my child's feelings into close alignment with my adult's understanding because I had been in a 15-year marriage with a BPDer.

 

After just two weeks of intense reading on the Internet, I had a pretty good understanding of what I needed to do to get out of the toxic relationship and why I needed to do it. Yet, because my child was over a year behind my adult, the child sabotaged my every effort to break away.

 

It hindered me with nagging doubts, terrible guilt, and a strong feeling of obligation. It kept telling me that the theory floating around in the adult part of my mind was an insufficient basis on which to wholly abandon a loved one. Even after I had left her, I still refused to go No Contact for eight more months, at which point I finally realized she is incapable of ever being my friend. It seems that -- for all human beings -- the inner child makes at least 90% (if not 95%) of the important decisions. I was 50 years old before I understood that simple notion. And it took me 12 years to do it.

 

What happened was that, for 12 years, I took my bipolar foster son to a weekly family group meeting with the psychologist who was treating him. Whenever the psych challenged me on something, I always had an elaborate well-thought-out explanation for doing whatever I had chosen to do. Never mind that what I had chosen was not working with my foster son and never mind that I kept repeating the same pattern year after year.

 

The psych was always greatly amused by my explanations. He would laugh and point out, in his kindly fashion, that my elaborate rationalizations could not disguise the fact that my inner child -- not my adult -- was calling all the shots, making nearly all the decisions. In any contest between the adult and child, he claimed, the child would almost always win. But I just could not swallow that concept.

 

Yet, after twelve years of his gentle rebukes, it dawned on me one night -- right as I was about to drift asleep -- why he had to be right. My inner child, I suddenly realized, is the sole judge of what is fun and what is not fun. That decision is all powerful. The adult part of my mind will nearly always conclude that it makes no sense -- indeed, would be preposterous -- to do something, go somewhere, or date someone I do not enjoy. My adult logic thus nearly always has to end up in the lap of my inner child.

 

This is why, as I discussed earlier, learning about my exW's problem (BPD) and my problem (excessive caregiver) is the easy part. What is difficult is internalizing that understanding, i.e., transforming knowledge into wisdom, which requires that my feelings catch up with my intellectual thoughts. Had I failed in that effort, I would have remained stuck in a destructive pattern, repeating my past mistakes over and over, because my child will be calling nearly all the shots.

 

I've been a loner for the majority of my life, and that's painful and scary place to be in.

If your GF really is a BPDer, your being "a loner" is only one of many reasons it is going to be very painful to leave her. The primary reason is that walking away from a BPDer feels like you are walking away from a sick young child who, despite her periodic tantrums, dearly loves you. Because a BPDer typically has the emotional skills of a four year old, she often will exhibit a vulnerability, purity of expression, and exuberance that otherwise is only seen in young children.

 

A second reason is that, whereas narcissists and sociopaths manipulate you with deliberate lies, a BPDer usually believes most of the outrageous allegations coming out of her mouth. Because her feelings are so intense, she is absolutely convinced they MUST be correct. Moreover, that sincerity and conviction usually will be obvious to you (and to the police if she ever calls them to arrest you). Hence, because you know she loves you and truly believes most of her allegations, you mistakenly assume that -- if you can only figure out what YOU are doing wrong -- you can restore the R/S to that wonderful bliss and passion you saw at the beginning.

 

A third reason -- especially for excessive caregivers like you and me -- is that a BPDer relationship gives us an opportunity to experience the intoxicating feeling of being the nearly perfect man who has ridden in on a white horse to save the maiden from unhappiness. As we discussed last year, our need to be needed far exceeds our need to be loved. We therefore are strongly attracted to a child-like woman who can project her vulnerability across a crowded room. Indeed, if you ever see a Marilyn Monroe movie, you will see a BPDer woman who could project enormous vulnerability right off of a flat movie screen.

 

A fourth reason is that, because a BPDer so completely mirrors the best aspects of your personality and your preferences, you both mistakenly believe that you have found your "soulmate." Hence, even when you later start to question that intense feeling intellectually, you still have to fight against the intense feeling (of your "intuitive inner child") that she is somehow perfect for you -- and destined to be your mate.

[Sylvester91]

My friend, now is a time for self-reflection. Someone who allows themselves to be exposed to and who tolerates this kind of treatment, themselves, has some esteem issues that need to be dealt with. This is essentially a co-dependent relationship -- just a little clue for you.

 

I honestly thought her psyche can be treated. -- It can be, but not by YOU.

 

I‘ve told her multiple times that if she doesn‘t adress her jealousy issues, we‘re done -- Tolerating and using threats over and over again is actually enabling her behavior.

 

For your own good and for the possibility of moving forward with your life, you need to end this relationship right now so that the damage YOU suffer can be at least minimized and then dealt with properly.

 

She is not a suitable partner for anyone. When you open your eyes to that fact, you should be able to move on and do what's good for YOU.

 

I've never really tolerated her behaviour, had "kicked her out" for days / weeks out of our apartment we're renting, saying "you don't fix your ****, you better don't come back". She'd admit her misbehaviour and things would get better for a while but it never lasted due to her not seriously addressing her root causes. Also tried various "punishments / ignorance", which also worked short-term only. What else can you do, beat the girl?

 

I of course described everything that's bad in the relationship ommiting what's good. Bad would take around 40 percentage or so, so it wasnt all that bad.

[Sylvester91]

Sylvester, welcome to the LoveShack forum. I agree with the excellent advice already given by PegNose, RedHead, and Altair.

 

You are wise to suspect a "mixture." A recent study found that 3/4 of BPD sufferers also exhibit one or two other PDs as well. Of course, only a professional can determine whether your GF's BPD symptoms are so severe and persistent as to constitute full-blown BPD. But simply spotting BPD symptoms (i.e., warning signs) is easy after you've been dating a person for 3 years. Indeed, you would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind not to spot symptoms such as temper tantrums and verbal abuse.

 

I agree with you that the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational jealousy, controlling actions, verbal abuse, low self esteem, easily triggered temper tantrums, emotional instability, lack of impulse control, love of drama, stalking, and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). If you're interested, I provide a more complete list of red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs.

 

Importantly, I'm not suggesting your GF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit strong traits of it. Yet, for the purposes of deciding whether she would make a good lifetime partner, it really does not matter whether she satisfies 100% of the BPD diagnostic criteria (thus "having BPD") or only 80% (thus "not having BPD"). A woman satisfying only 70% or 80% of those criteria likely will be as nearly impossible to live with as one satisfying all 100%.

 

You are not describing psychosis. Nor are you describing insanity. Psychosis and insanity occur whenever a person loses touch with physical reality. In contrast, people suffering from a PD typically see physical reality just fine. What is distorted is their perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations. Significantly, this distortion occurs in ALL of us whenever we experience intense feelings. It occurs far more frequently and more strongly in BPDers because, given their inability to regulate emotions, they experience intense feelings far more often.

 

No, Sylvester, you are "still debating" because gaining an intellectual understanding of your GF's behavior is the EASY part. What is HARD is persuading the intuitive, emotional part of your mind that this new information is true. This next step is essential because it will be extremely difficult to leave your GF until you resolve that struggle between your "intuitive child" and "logical adult." Because the child typically lags behind the adult for many months, it takes time to close that gap. In my case, it took me over a year to bring my child's feelings into close alignment with my adult's understanding because I had been in a 15-year marriage with a BPDer.

 

After just two weeks of intense reading on the Internet, I had a pretty good understanding of what I needed to do to get out of the toxic relationship and why I needed to do it. Yet, because my child was over a year behind my adult, the child sabotaged my every effort to break away.

 

It hindered me with nagging doubts, terrible guilt, and a strong feeling of obligation. It kept telling me that the theory floating around in the adult part of my mind was an insufficient basis on which to wholly abandon a loved one. Even after I had left her, I still refused to go No Contact for eight more months, at which point I finally realized she is incapable of ever being my friend. It seems that -- for all human beings -- the inner child makes at least 90% (if not 95%) of the important decisions. I was 50 years old before I understood that simple notion. And it took me 12 years to do it.

 

What happened was that, for 12 years, I took my bipolar foster son to a weekly family group meeting with the psychologist who was treating him. Whenever the psych challenged me on something, I always had an elaborate well-thought-out explanation for doing whatever I had chosen to do. Never mind that what I had chosen was not working with my foster son and never mind that I kept repeating the same pattern year after year.

 

The psych was always greatly amused by my explanations. He would laugh and point out, in his kindly fashion, that my elaborate rationalizations could not disguise the fact that my inner child -- not my adult -- was calling all the shots, making nearly all the decisions. In any contest between the adult and child, he claimed, the child would almost always win. But I just could not swallow that concept.

 

Yet, after twelve years of his gentle rebukes, it dawned on me one night -- right as I was about to drift asleep -- why he had to be right. My inner child, I suddenly realized, is the sole judge of what is fun and what is not fun. That decision is all powerful. The adult part of my mind will nearly always conclude that it makes no sense -- indeed, would be preposterous -- to do something, go somewhere, or date someone I do not enjoy. My adult logic thus nearly always has to end up in the lap of my inner child.

 

This is why, as I discussed earlier, learning about my exW's problem (BPD) and my problem (excessive caregiver) is the easy part. What is difficult is internalizing that understanding, i.e., transforming knowledge into wisdom, which requires that my feelings catch up with my intellectual thoughts. Had I failed in that effort, I would have remained stuck in a destructive pattern, repeating my past mistakes over and over, because my child will be calling nearly all the shots.

 

If your GF really is a BPDer, your being "a loner" is only one of many reasons it is going to be very painful to leave her. The primary reason is that walking away from a BPDer feels like you are walking away from a sick young child who, despite her periodic tantrums, dearly loves you. Because a BPDer typically has the emotional skills of a four year old, she often will exhibit a vulnerability, purity of expression, and exuberance that otherwise is only seen in young children.

 

A second reason is that, whereas narcissists and sociopaths manipulate you with deliberate lies, a BPDer usually believes most of the outrageous allegations coming out of her mouth. Because her feelings are so intense, she is absolutely convinced they MUST be correct. Moreover, that sincerity and conviction usually will be obvious to you (and to the police if she ever calls them to arrest you). Hence, because you know she loves you and truly believes most of her allegations, you mistakenly assume that -- if you can only figure out what YOU are doing wrong -- you can restore the R/S to that wonderful bliss and passion you saw at the beginning.

 

A third reason -- especially for excessive caregivers like you and me -- is that a BPDer relationship gives us an opportunity to experience the intoxicating feeling of being the nearly perfect man who has ridden in on a white horse to save the maiden from unhappiness. As we discussed last year, our need to be needed far exceeds our need to be loved. We therefore are strongly attracted to a child-like woman who can project her vulnerability across a crowded room. Indeed, if you ever see a Marilyn Monroe movie, you will see a BPDer woman who could project enormous vulnerability right off of a flat movie screen.

 

A fourth reason is that, because a BPDer so completely mirrors the best aspects of your personality and your preferences, you both mistakenly believe that you have found your "soulmate." Hence, even when you later start to question that intense feeling intellectually, you still have to fight against the intense feeling (of your "intuitive inner child") that she is somehow perfect for you -- and destined to be your mate.

 

 

Downtown, thanks for such an in depth sharing of your experiences and insight. You defiantely happen to be the one with somewhat of an expertise in the subject and also well-read, therefore I couldn't add anything more to your post.

 

My last idea is to acctually try the psychiatrist or some other med. interference before splitting. Also very major part without a doubt is the fact she has never really been extremely busy with things like working a job, taking financial care of herself etc. That definately adds massively to the immaturity factor, narcissism, unrealistic expectations etc. I myself was such example that's for sure.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Sylvester91

[Sylvester91]

I also didn't mention that she was the one who initiated the relationship, and I was quite reluctant about that. Also it's always been a feeling that she appreciates me slightly more than I do her.

 

I'm somewhat flawed individual in a sense that i have lack or wish to demonstrate my feelings in the usual ways, and let's admit, no women would tolerate that.

 

I even forgot our 3 year anniversary, I'm not an aniverrsary guy, but even I consider this being mean. I don't even know the exact dates my parent's was born, so I haven't been the greatest overall either. (I get along with parents fine though)

Edited May 18, 2017 by Sylvester91

[Sylvester91]

Just a clarification on some things, if anyone reads: her jellousy issues towards random people lately like 6-7 months had actually almost fully dissappeared, however she'd over react passive-agressivelly whilst watching a film and seeing some actress, each time I responded very agressively.

 

She has always had extremely perfectionistic / pure desires when it comes to life, and always complained how shallow people are when it comes to true virtues / romance / relationships. We had developed a strong bond due to that, as I believe the same.

 

Looking back, she'd often approach me, and for the past 6-7 months I would almost always push her away when it comes to kissing / romance and would choose not to have sex with her to a point where it's just once a week. She'd complained about me pushing her away, I would ignore it. I'd do that even when she behaved normally.

 

All this happened not because I didn't want to, but because I emerged myself completely into both work and working on my own projects (business). I really became sort of a zombie in this regard. I just didn't seem to care at all, even though was aware of how cold I grew to be - hate my job and my circumstances, strugggle severely finding another decent employmnet. I also admit having some anger management control issues and often demonstrated extremely violent, angry and rough behaviour.

 

So as bad as she's been, I've to admit now that I could've tried way better. I don't know if it matters, but I'm typical ISTJ type with strong artistic aspirations (music / photography). My GF is INFJ, a rare personality type. My former GF also was INFJ, but it was me who ended the relationship for totally different reasons. In fact, I would have started romance with yet another INFJ woman in the past, but didn't mainly due to physical attraction reasons.

 

So yeah. Somehow attracted to INFJs. MY GF constantly reminded me how incompatible they might be at bad times.

 

Now all I do is work, workout to a total fatigue, and sleep. And look for future resolutions.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Sylvester91

[metrognome]

Sorry don't have much to contribute but thought it was interesting you brought up MBTI types as don't see people use them much here. I've been trying to understand mine better to see if it gives me any insight into why I might have been dumped. Another INFJ female here. I think I was perhaps showing too much of my intense and moral side and forgetting to have fun towards the end.

[Sylvester91]

nd forgetting to have fun towards the end.

 

That's me right there... have a good sense of humour, however never seem to be able to relax. My personality type is described as a dumb rule follower who respects anything but traditional almost military based path, however I'm way more complex, I guess: being higly artistic and at the same time having developed very rigid self discipline / go getter type of mentality to a point where it might already be enough to others to handle. I'm also a very dedicated and strong individualist to the point where while it helps most of the time, normal life around people becomes sort of an issue due to that. I've become so after being treated disrespectfully by employers and realized self employment is a must.

 

Our latest conflicts revolved around the fact she's way too influenced by what others think including female friends, does't work hard enough towards her dreams when she can, always quits whatever she starts if somebody critiques her. To my current state of mind that's an insult. And I've treated her harshly for such lack of own guidance and self esteem and non-direction.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Sylvester91

[spiderowl]

If you need to discipline your girlfriend the way you said you had to - kicking her out at times, etc. - then this can never work. You should not have to do this and she should not put up with it. You both seem entangled in an unhappy relationship because you had this connection. Believe me, I know that a true connection is rare; it can also be incredibly addictive. It doesn't always mean it is good for you.

 

It is interesting you mentioned personality types. I am an INFJ and can see immediately that I would struggle with some other personality types, especially IS types. When you mentioned she wants to talk philosophy, yes, I know what she means. I can talk to lots of other people but when I sense they are practical types or logical but not feeling types, I know we can only have a limited kind of friendship. It is as though we are on different planets.

 

You probably see her emotionality and sensitivity as illness - it may be but it may also be extreme sensitivity. It is hard to be a sensitive person, things don't simply wash over you. You are constantly aware of every slight, every mood, every criticism. As an extremely sensitive person myself, I don't think I really 'grew up' until much later than others, mainly because my sensitivity to everything was so overwhelming. I needed encouragement and support whilst dealing with it. I can well understand that if you criticised your girlfriend for her 'weaknesses', things would not go so well. I am amazed she is still with you. I found that focusing on practical things seemed a diversion that I could only manage for a short while (this hasn't changed much).

 

You mentioned you became focused on your work and that you got angry with her. Whatever your reasons for getting angry and cold, that is not good for a relationship. If you are angry and cold with someone, they will either opt out or rebel in an attempt to cope with it. It sounds like you two have a strong bond but that your personality types mean you will struggle even if you try to understand each other.

 

Whatever you feel about your girlfriend, a lot of what you have said sounds like you look down on her and are angry with her. Whether it is a justified viewpoint or not, it is not good for her. I can't see how you can retrieve anything with her if you look down on her like this. Maybe you both need a break from each other for sufficient time for the bond to weaken to give yourselves chance to see if you can find more compatible partners.

Edited May 18, 2017 by spiderowl

[metrognome]

If you need to discipline your girlfriend the way you said you had to - kicking her out at times, etc. - then this can never work. You should not have to do this and she should not put up with it. You both seem entangled in an unhappy relationship because you had this connection. Believe me, I know that a true connection is rare; it can also be incredibly addictive. It doesn't always mean it is good for you.

 

It is interesting you mentioned personality types. I am an INFJ and can see immediately that I would struggle with some other personality types, especially IS types. When you mentioned she wants to talk philosophy, yes, I know what she means. I can talk to lots of other people but when I sense they are practical types or logical but not feeling types, I know we can only have a limited kind of friendship. It is as though we are on different planets.

 

You probably see her emotionality and sensitivity as illness - it may be but it may also be extreme sensitivity. It is hard to be a sensitive person, things don't simply wash over you. You are constantly aware of every slight, every mood, every criticism. As an extremely sensitive person myself, I don't think I really 'grew up' until much later than others, mainly because my sensitivity to everything was so overwhelming. I needed encouragement and support whilst dealing with it. I can well understand that if you criticised your girlfriend for her 'weaknesses', things would not go so well. I am amazed she is still with you. I found that focusing on practical things seemed a diversion that I could only manage for a short while (this hasn't changed much).

 

You mentioned you became focused on your work and that you got angry with her. Whatever your reasons for getting angry and cold, that is not good for a relationship. If you are angry and cold with someone, they will either opt out or rebel in an attempt to cope with it. It sounds like you two have a strong bond but that your personality types mean you will struggle even if you try to understand each other.

 

Whatever you feel about your girlfriend, a lot of what you have said sounds like you look down on her and are angry with her. Whether it is a justified viewpoint or not, it is not good for her. I can't see how you can retrieve anything with her if you look down on her like this. Maybe you both need a break from each other for sufficient time for the bond to weaken to give yourselves chance to see if you can find more compatible partners.

 

I agree us INFJ girls are incredibly sensitive, critically analysing anything anyone does in relation to what it might tell us about their opinion of us. So I personally respond really badly to people that come across as angry and cold, and will probably give it the same back.

[Sylvester91]

You probably see her emotionality and sensitivity as illness

 

Oh, that's definately an ilness or at least mild to medium symptoms of disorders I mentioned. And yes, she's extremely sensitive on top of that, but hyper sensitivity alone isn't the case.

 

She'd show extreme violence herself without solid reason at times, like hating on other people due to the fact accordiing to her that all the people around are sexists and sick perverts. She even turned down my suggestions to see psych. specialists because she said multiple times "they're all perverts and sicks who only care about having sex with theri patients". She admiteddly would laugh at her self due to this later, but then again would come back with the same feelings.

 

I know that INFJs are extremely analytical people, however it can harm severely, (I know, because ISTJs are very over analytical themselves). Relationships and love shouldn't be based on measuring, analysing each and every trait MBTI type has, comparing the two, and then making conclusions. The more differences you're looking for, the more you're gonna find.

 

As I mentioned also I'm somewhat artistic, melancholic / choleric type, so I've never been about practical things solely. My GF is artistic / melancholic / phlegmatic.

 

I used to overanalyze everything in life and would mix it with super perfectionist view on life (very much like my GF), and never ever got anything good out of this but agony, dissapointment and nervousness. The truth is there are no perfect fits for you, there are no perfect people either. I'm willing to accept there's no perfection, my GF always refused to do so, and always would in dissapointment / paint due to this in avery aspect of life.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Sylvester91

[Sylvester91]

It is hard to be a sensitive person, things don't simply wash over you. You are constantly aware of every slight, every mood, every criticism. As an extremely sensitive person myself, I don't think I really 'grew up' until much later than others,

 

Well, that's all understandable. I myself once suffered from severe social anxiety and always been very sensitive and still am, however, real world doesn't tolerate that, therefore I kinda learned to put a mask of some sort / don't care as much, otherwise, I wouldn't have survived. So I'm aware and understanding, however, I'm a strong believer one has to learn ho to deal with the world.

 

I'm not advocating my behaviour, but I probably grew to be so after being kinda tired of false accusations and lack of trust.

 

Speaking of MBTI, I never really understood the ways it classified who's a good fit to whom, as it always pairs an extrovert and introvert together. We've discussed with my GF that's a strange thing, and that we wouldn't see ourselves being with an extrovert.

 

I've also had tremendous attraction to people with issues I guess, as I've had many struggles with sensitivity and sanity for most of my life. I guess I find honesty, mutual connection and vulnerability mixed with intelligence is such people. I cannot stand extroverts for the most part, small talkers in general and feel extremely repulsed by such people. Always feel void and wasting time while being around such people.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Sylvester91

[PegNosePete]

I'm not advocating my behaviour, but I probably grew to be so after being kinda tired of false accusations and lack of trust.

Absolutely. You're behaving passive-aggressively because if you try to discuss issues like an adult and express normal views and opinions, it ends in hysteria. In fact if you do anything it ends in hysteria, so you do nothing and act cold instead. Again that's not her fault, it's her issues, but the end result is the same: you can't have a normal, happy relationship with this woman.

[EmilyJane]

You don't care what anyone here has to say, you're already diagnosing her with multiple serious mental illnesses despite presumably not having any relevant qualifications or indeed even anything beyond pop psych understanding of them.

 

You are labelling her with your emotions.

 

You haven't said a single positive thing about her and are harshly judging here on everything from her upbringing to her fathers drug issues.

 

My bet is she has been picking up on your negative and judgemental opinions of her for a long time and it's exacerbating an already insecurity provoking period in a woman's psychological development. Plus I bet you do actually criticise her.

 

I think you can either bail which will probably be better for her in the long run as I suspect from your attitude you're emotionally abusing her or you can switch up your thinking and attitude and stop focusing on her as the problem.

 

There's plenty of good help out there about how to be a positive partner instead of a negative one.

[elaine567]

Whether your gf suffers from all of the mental health problems you list or none, it is immaterial.

 

Truth of the matter you are both making each other ill.

 

Our latest conflicts revolved around the fact she's way too influenced by what others think including female friends, does't work hard enough towards her dreams when she can, always quits whatever she starts if somebody critiques her.

To my current state of mind that's an insult.

And I've treated her harshly for such lack of own guidance and self esteem and non-direction.

She is who she is, you need to realise you cannot change an adult into who you want them to be, and "punishing" them for who they truly are, will only make things one hundred times worse.

 

Looking back, she'd often approach me, and for the past 6-7 months I would almost always push her away when it comes to kissing / romance and would choose not to have sex with her to a point where it's just once a week. She'd complained about me pushing her away, I would ignore it. I'd do that even when she behaved normally.

What did you hope to achieve there?

I think you need to address your own issues here and not lump all the blame on your "mad" gf, when such behaviour on your part can be "madness" inducing in a person who loves you and needs some affection and validation returned. To withhold affection and refuse to discuss the situation, no doubt fuelled her jealousy. If you were not having sex with her, then who WERE you having sex with? It is a pretty natural assumption... You KNEW you weren't cheating, but how was she to know that?

 

If she isn't really who you want her to be, the best idea is to walk away, not try to "force" the issue with actions that appear to be designed to hurt.

[Redhead14]

I've never really tolerated her behaviour, had "kicked her out" for days / weeks out of our apartment we're renting, saying "you don't fix your ****, you better don't come back". She'd admit her misbehaviour and things would get better for a while but it never lasted due to her not seriously addressing her root causes. Also tried various "punishments / ignorance", which also worked short-term only. What else can you do, beat the girl?

 

I of course described everything that's bad in the relationship ommiting what's good. Bad would take around 40 percentage or so, so it wasnt all that bad.

 

You have tolerated it, otherwise, you wouldn't have been with her for 3 years. Sure, you talk to a partner about their behavior, you create boundaries, etc., but when they fail to respect them over and over again and you let them "back in", you're tolerating their behavior PERIOD.

 

You put her out and didn't give enough time to observe whether that was enough for her to start treating you the way you need to be treated before you let her "back in".

 

You talk to them, you observe whether they at least begin to make an effort and whether or not that effort is consistent and sincere. If not, see ya.

 

On top of all this, you're really trying to get her to be what you need, when in fact, it sounds like she isn't capable of being that for anyone, frankly. And, it also sounds like she doesn't want to be either. It sounds to me like she has a diagnosable disorder, perhaps co-morbid disorders, which have been unaddressed. In that case, you are way out of your element.

 

Bad would take around 40 percentage or so, so it wasn't that bad -- Seriously???? You were OK with a relationship that is bad 40% of the time???? Nyeah, no . . .

[dumbass2]

You said the relationship was bad 40% of the time. That's just a bad relationship period. I think your grasping at straws here. You guys gave it a shot but after all I've read it appears to be over and not repairable. She broke up with you and I suggest you take the opportunity to move forward and not try to get her back. She told you what she's looking to do so allow her to go do it.

[Blanco]

Ever notice how so many exes are supposedly afflicted with personality disorders?