Was it a sabotage or was she just not into me?

[aaforever]

So I met a great girl at my friend’s wedding this weekend (let’s call her Jenny). She came alone and was very reserved and shy. No one was talking to her so I decided to introduce myself. I make small talk, have a drink with her and find out she is childhood friends with my best friends girlfriend who I came with to the wedding. We all start hanging out. I ask her if she’s going to come out tonight for the after party. She says yes.

 

We all meet downtown later in a small bar with a big party atmosphere. A lot of dancing is going on in tight corners. Neither of us were big dancers so Jenny and I find a spot to sit down at and we chat a bit about music. The party starts to get pretty lively, we get up and hang over by the wall away from all the action.

 

Now, here’s where it gets interesting…

There is a girl (let’s call her Ruby) from the wedding party who is in the bar with us that I’ve hooked up with in the past. She’s wild and obnoxious. Ruby sees that I’m talking to Jenny and she gets jealous. She starts dancing all crazy, rubbing her booty on everyone, trying to get attention. She starts to make her way towards us. I can see Jenny looking at Ruby at this point and cringing.

 

She says “She’s like a walking YouTube video.”

I laughed and said, “Yea some girls resort to that for attention I guess…and it works…because look at all the guys looking at her now”.

She says “Yea that’s sad.”

I said, “Well actually, not every guy is looking at her, you know?”

I turned to Jenny, looked her in the eye and said, “I’m not. And there’s a reason for that.”

She smiled. Then I said, “Let’s go somewhere else.” She said, “Ok.”

 

Not even a second after I said that, Ruby is right in front of me rubbing her butt on me in front of Jenny and I just looked at Jenny with my hands up and said, “Save me please.” She laughed.

 

We all go to the next spot. I lose Jenny in the crowd. I order a drink at the bar. Some good music hits. I see Jenny a few people back we make eye contact and I go up to her and start dancing. I’m not much of a dancer so I was kind of being goofy and dancing around her, singing and stuff in a comical way. My friends start laughing. There were some sexual songs that came on and I got pretty close to her and started singing the lyrics to her in more of a serious but still fun way. We started to make eye contact and she stopped laughing. It felt very hot and sexual for a moment and we never broke eye contact. I kind of broke the moment and laughed because I started to forget the words.

 

Then I turned to her and said, “You know, you seem like a great girl. I’d love to get to know you. Since we live so far (5 hours) would you be open to talking on the phone some time? Who knows, maybe we click.”

She said, “Yes.”

I put my hand out and she takes it.

I said, “Let’s go somewhere else.”

We walk out hand in hand.

A few of my friends are outside and we walk up and chat with them while holding hands.

We go to the next spot.

When we get in the bar I said “I like a firm grip. Don’t you?”

She laughs and holds my hand tighter.

I said, “Plus, I don’t want to lose you.”

 

I go up to the bar (she is behind me still holding my hand) and I feel someone getting in between us. It’s my best friends girlfriend who she grew up with. I immediately could tell she purposely did that to break our holding hands. I couldn’t figure out why. After a while, we all decide to go to the next spot. She’s following behind me as I exit, I remember putting my hand out for her to hold it from behind me but she didn’t grab it, i turned to look and she was looking down at her phone. I couldn’t tell if she didn’t see me offer her the hand or she just didn’t want to hold my hand anymore.

 

We go to the next spot, she goes to the bathroom. She comes out and now I see Ruby talking to her. I immediately thought she was trying to sabotage any potential between me and Jenny. I ignore it and start hanging out with my friends. Eventually Jenny is next to me sipping a drink and then Ruby comes out of nowhere and stands next to her. Now I could be wrong but it felt like they were both standing there looking at me waiting for me to choose between the two…I more got that vibe from Ruby, not Jenny. There was a part of me that wanted to take Jenny’s hand as a way to show Ruby I wasn’t interested in her. But then I thought about the whole breaking of the holding hand thing and it made me think maybe she doesn’t want me doing that anymore…or maybe she was turned off by now for some reason. Either way, I felt a bit of a different vibe from Jenny.

 

Shortly after, the night starts to come to an end. Everyone calls cabs back to the house where we are all staying (Ruby included). Jenny said she was going home since she lived 5 minutes from the bar. I give her my phone and she puts her number in it with her full name. I hug her goodbye and said “Ill call you.”

Me and the wedding crew go back to the house.

 

Ruby is in the kitchen and says to me, “So where’s your girlfriend?”

I just laughed and said, “She’s not my girlfriend, but who knows maybe someday…”

She just said, “Mmmhmm…” and went to bed.

 

The weekend ends and I ride back home with my best friend and his girlfriend (Jenny’s childhood friend…who we can call Mandy). I say to Mandy, “I really like your friend Jenny. Make sure to put in the good word for me.” She paused and said, “Yea the thing with Jenny is, she gets hit on a lot and she’s very picky about who she hangs with. She doesn’t date anybody. She’s the type of girl you need to be around at least 4 or 5 times to get her to warm up to you plus you guys live so far apart which makes it hard.”

 

Two days go by and I give Jenny a call. Nothing. No answer. Left a message. I wait another day and text her once. Nothing. It’s been almost a week.

I ask Mandy what she thinks happened and she said:

“Honestly, I broke your hands apart because she was making a weird face.

I kind of read it as a ‘save me’ face. But she never said anything to me.

And she never brought you up in conversation at any point…so I don’t know.

That was the only time I seen you guys together. I didn’t know what your interactions where before that or anything. Did you guys have a moment or were you just talking to her and grabbed her hand just then and there?”

 

I said, “No I offered my hand to her and she took it. We stood talking to friends and went to the next bar like that. I felt like we were hitting it off but maybe I read it wrong?”

She said, “Wow, Jenny never lets anyone hold her hand. That’s kind of a big deal. I wasn’t aware you guys were spending that much time together.”

I said, “Yea that’s why I’m surprised she never responded to me on the phone or anything.

And if she was so turned off by me why would she give me her number after all that?”

 

(I also told her I saw Ruby talking to her.)

She said, “Oh no. She could have sabotaged it. I do know Jenny is looking for a serious relationship and is very cautious about guys. If Ruby tried to make you out to be a player to her, that could have done it. Or maybe she wasn’t really into you like that or she thought about the driving distance between you guys…don’t know, but I’ll find out what’s going on.”

 

That’s where I’m at with this. My friend seems to think it’s just a case of me liking her way more than she likes me. I guess I just want to know what it is because if it’s a matter of proving I’m a good guy… I’m confident I can do that. I think this girl is very much worth that effort. Is there really anything I can do in the meantime at this point?

[Titanll]

Not gonna lie, that hurt my head reading so much. Way too many variables to have a clue. Maybe try talking to your buddy's wife and see if she can put in a good word. If Jenny returns your call you can handle yourself from there.

[d0nnivain]

You have to stop talking to everybody else & get Jenny to talk to you. If she's not answering your phone calls, try a text.

 

 

I'd say something like -- I'm not the guy our friends warned you about lol. Give me a chance. Give us a chance. At least take my next phone call so you can judge for yourself.

[OatsAndHall]

Hmmm..I could see pursuing it further i she lived closer but a) you've been told she's picky and looking for a committed relationship and b) you've been told she's kind of closed-off. That doesn't make for a promising LDR.

 

Plus, that is more drama in one night than I would care to put up with.

[kendahke]

Talk about Peyton Place...

 

Instead of going to all those bars, it would have been a better idea to take Jenny to an all night diner and talk one on one with her, then join up with everyone later.

 

Definitely Ruby and Mandy sabotaged your fledgling spark with Jenny. Mandy could very well be lying about what Jenny did--Ruby may have texted something to her to interfere. But I'd say that Ruby mainly sabotaged your spark by cornering her in the bathroom and putting dirt in her ear.

 

Not to mention 5 hours distance is enough to put the kibosh on it. Location location location--it's a thing.

[act00]

Why did you wait TWO DAYS before contacting her?? If you liked her, why didn't you toss her a text in the morning telling her you had a great time? Two days is an afterthought.

 

There's so much going on here in your story, but distance is an issue, and while it seems Jenny was really into you, distance is going to be problematic for her, it seems.

 

You are told Jenny is extremely picky, and and I don't know that I would want to pursue someone who has a long list of rules to abide by in order to be considered acceptable. She was into you at the moment, but even if you lived close, she sounds a bit difficult to be with. I hope your friends were exaggerating.

 

You spent a lot of time and effort trying to "be alone," but you continued going to venues with the wedding party and guests, and public party places. If you really wanted some one-on-one time, you could have broken from the group and gone somewhere like an all-night diner.

 

Location is a major issue in this scenario. I don't see that working out.

 

Just enjoy the time for what it was.

 

ETA: I find it a little problematic that Jenny couldn't just stick with her friends and avoid personal time with you if she wasn't interested in you. One of your friends broke contact of hand-holding because "Jenny had a face." The "help me" face? She actively sought you out and was purposefully available, but had a "help me face" that prompted a friend to jump in and help because she was stuck? I don't know; the scenario is so strange. Do you really want to be with someone like that? Someone who actively makes herself available, yet tosses out the "save me" face? Drinking and partying can muddy things up a little, and it would be nice to see what happens "in real life," but it's really hard to interpret what's going on here.

Edited May 13, 2017 by act00

[smackie9]

It's pretty damn obvious Ruby told her EVERYTHING about you. Even I saw it and I wasn't even there....

 

Jenny is over and out.

 

This is a lesson to be learned....keep your flings separate from your personal circle of friends and acquaintances. As they say don't S#$% where you eat.

 

It doesn't matter to Jen if your intentions are honest/honorable, it's the fact that you don't share the same views about sex. To her sleeping casually with Ruby speaks volumes about your character....that you are untrustworthy in her eyes.

Edited May 13, 2017 by smackie9

[aaforever]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. @smackie9 I never slept with Ruby. We've made out and flirted. That's the extent of it. As far as bringing Jenny to a diner or somewhere private... there was a moment where I asked her if she wanted to go somewhere a bit more lowkey but she suggested we try to have them go with us. Sure maybe I could have made it clear I wanted just me and her to go but I also didn't want to be overbearing or pushy.

 

@ kendahke - "Mandy could very well be lying about what Jenny did"

 

You know thinking back now... I DID have an interaction with Mandy prior to the breaking of the hand holding thing that may prove your theory. This was earlier in the night at the first bar. I went up to the bar while Mandy was ordering a drink and she said to me:

 

"You know... Ruby lost 11 pounds for you because she knew you were coming."

I said, "Yea right, she lost 11 pounds for the wedding, not for me."

She said, "No when she found out you were coming she said it on a group phone call."

I said, "Wow, I didn't think she liked me that much to be honest."

 

Now I'm thinking she said that to divert me from Jenny.

 

Which is interesting because Mandy mentioned to me Ruby was coming to the wedding party about a month ago...and she specifically said to me "I would stay away from her, she's nothing but drama." Now all of a sudden she "promoting" her to me!

 

It's making me think the whole Jenny made a "save me" face was bull****. Because honestly I remember when she was trying to break our hand holding. Jenny was holding on. I let go. You would think the moment Mandy did that she would have let go. I'm starting to think Mandy said something off putting to Jenny about me. Which is even strange because Mandy is always talking about trying to find me a good girlfriend and always talking about how good of a guy I am and all that. The whole thing is so confusing my head is spinning!

 

As of right now, I'm still waiting to hear back from Mandy after she said she'd "get to the bottom of it". But I'm really unsure what to believe. There's a part of me that wants to just wait and see what she says but then theres a part of me that wants to try to call Jenny again...assuming she even gave me the right number now!

[preraph]

I think there's a conspiracy to make you be with Ruby, so you need to tell Ruby and Mandy and whoever else will listen that you are not the least bit interested.

 

As for Jenny, once you tell everyone it's a definite No, and especially Ruby, try Jenny again and tell her you found out one of your friends was trying to push you and Ruby together but that you made it clear you weren't interested and hope that someone didn't make her think it was a thing because I thought we were hitting it off. It's all you can do.

[johngalt1149]

Flowers will sometimes work. A few dozen.

[johngalt1149]

Do it courteously and do it right. Not a kiddie way with a heartfelt letter.

[kendahke]

@ kendahke - "Mandy could very well be lying about what Jenny did"

 

You know thinking back now... I DID have an interaction with Mandy prior to the breaking of the hand holding thing that may prove your theory. This was earlier in the night at the first bar. I went up to the bar while Mandy was ordering a drink and she said to me:

 

"You know... Ruby lost 11 pounds for you because she knew you were coming."

I said, "Yea right, she lost 11 pounds for the wedding, not for me."

She said, "No when she found out you were coming she said it on a group phone call."

I said, "Wow, I didn't think she liked me that much to be honest."

 

Now I'm thinking she said that to divert me from Jenny.

 

Which is interesting because Mandy mentioned to me Ruby was coming to the wedding party about a month ago...and she specifically said to me "I would stay away from her, she's nothing but drama." Now all of a sudden she "promoting" her to me!

 

It's making me think the whole Jenny made a "save me" face was bull****. Because honestly I remember when she was trying to break our hand holding. Jenny was holding on. I let go. You would think the moment Mandy did that she would have let go. I'm starting to think Mandy said something off putting to Jenny about me. Which is even strange because Mandy is always talking about trying to find me a good girlfriend and always talking about how good of a guy I am and all that. The whole thing is so confusing my head is spinning!

 

As of right now, I'm still waiting to hear back from Mandy after she said she'd "get to the bottom of it". But I'm really unsure what to believe. There's a part of me that wants to just wait and see what she says but then theres a part of me that wants to try to call Jenny again...assuming she even gave me the right number now!

 

From now on, keep Mandy out of your business. She is too close to Ruby and Ruby got her to do her dirty work for her. She means you no good.

 

In fact, keep every female friend you know out of your dating business. It's not fit for them to have that much information because they use it as weapons.

 

If there ever is a time when Mandy and Jenny are in the same room with you, remind Jenny of the hand holding/break and tell her that Mandy said she was making a "save me" face to her behind your back and ask her if it's true. The truth will shake out in the most amusing way right in front of you. Then you will be able to ascertain if Jenny is worth all the trouble Mandy says she is.

 

In the mean time, put a lot of distance between you and Mandy.

Edited May 13, 2017 by kendahke

[aaforever]

UPDATE

 

Thanks again for the suggestions everyone. I spoke to Mandy. This is how it went:

 

Me: Do you think I come across as a player?

Mandy: Mmmm... no, but I could see how other people could think that. You're very friendly and personable...and kind of flirty. But I know that you're a really good guy and so does 'the bride' (Jordan's other friend). We would talk about it and get mad when the other girls would talk **** about you.

Me: Yea but they are just basing that off of my interactions with Ruby right? Us flirting and all that. They don't really know me.

Mandy: Yea they don't know you. Ruby makes you out to be a player because you flirt with her. It's like high school. She likes you.

Me: Ok because their was a part of me that thought you looked at me as a player too.

There was a part of me that felt like when you saw me pursuing your friend Jordan, you were trying to divert me from her in a way to be protective of your friend. Especially when you came up to me and told me that Ruby had lost 11 pounds for me.

Mandy: Lol. You're thinking way too much into it. I was probably just drunk and talking ****. I think with Jordan you probably just came on a bit too strong.

Me: I thought I was playing it cool and not being too overboard. If I was playing it wrong why would she take my hand. You said she never does anything like that.

Mandy: Yea I know, that's definitely more than I've seen her do. Maybe, even though she went along with it, overtime maybe she started to feel uncomfortable or thought maybe it was a bit too much and turned herself off. Hard to tell. She definitely never said anything to me about you or about it that night. I'm going back up in two weeks so I'll most likely see her. I'll bring it up and see if I can find out. You know, she didn't even say goodbye to me that night and I haven't heard from her. The bride didn't even know if she was actually going to show up to the wedding. She's not really the type that talks on the phone or is really open about her feelings so when I do talk to her I'll have to delicately bring it up. She's a really good girl though, just really hard to get to know.

 

 

That's pretty much the extent of our conversation. I ended up sending Jenny one last text. I don't know if that was a good thing or not but I felt like I needed to state my case and get it out of my system. I basically said to her:

 

Hey sorry to bug you again. I found out there was some gossip going around during the wedding and I wanted to make sure that wasn't the reason why you haven't responded. I worry someone got in your ear and gave you a false impression of me. I thought we were hitting it off and Id hate for that to have been altered by a jealous third party. But who knows maybe it was my awful dance moves, maybe I had food in my teeth or maybe I held your hand a bit too long. Whatever it may be I want you to know I'm a genuine and authentic person and based on what I've seen, I have a hunch you are too. I'm looking for someone who shares those same qualities. If you had any doubts about me, give me a chance. Consider my phone call so you can judge for yourself. Hope you've been well...

 

That's about it. Other than Mandy, I don't know anyone else aside from the bride who knows her. I'm not going to get hung up on it anymore, I think I did as much as I can do. What do you think?

Edited May 17, 2017 by aaforever

[CoolJoe]

As far as bringing Jenny to a diner or somewhere private... there was a moment where I asked her if she wanted to go somewhere a bit more lowkey but she suggested we try to have them go with us. Sure maybe I could have made it clear I wanted just me and her to go but I also didn't want to be overbearing or pushy.

 

Hey man, all that hand holding I read in the first post (even if she did take your hand after you offered it) seemed a bit too much to me. The first time was OK. But after that? I don't know if it's just me but reading it I honestly kind of cringed. This was your first night with her -- you need to chill on the hand holding. Especially in hindsight, Jenny doesn't like people holding her hand... this gives you more insight. Too much hand reaching and holding for someone you just met... first time OK. Bold. After that, I read it as being a bit overbearing but maybe that's just me.

 

I'm sure you're a great guy but I don't see this ending well in terms of how you wish it to go. It's way too messy and too much trouble for this to work. Ever notice how most love stories flow naturally and things just seem to click into place? When there are this many obstacles and barriers, it feels like the universe shutting it down because it's not the perfect match. You gave it one last try for your peace of mind. I wouldn't expect much back from Jenny if anything at all.

 

Move on. This one doesn't seem to be in the cards. I got a headache reading the story... I can't imagine what it was like to go through it in real life on that one evening. When a girl loses interest at any point for WHATEVER reason, especially BEFORE being committed beyond a moment of hopeful interest, there's basically no coming back from that. And no contact after this long? Sorry bro. This won't end it the way you want it to.