Dating: Measuring Level of Effort

[Shining One]

I've seen this come up in many other threads. This is a question primarily for the ladies, but input from all is welcome. How do you measure the level of effort put into dates?

 

Scenario 1

Person A invites Person B over to their home to watch TV/Movies. Person A handles all hosting responsibilities, which includes cooking dinner, providing drinks, and all cleanup. All Person B had to do was get there.

 

Scenario 2

Person A invites Person B out for coffee. They meet up at a coffee shop halfway between them. Person A pays for the coffee and snacks.

 

I often see Person A in Scenario 1 being described as lazy and putting in zero effort, which is clearly hyperbole. Having been Person A in both scenarios, I can objectively say that Scenario 1 is more effort for me. However, many ladies here consider it as lazy while Scenario 2 is seen as not (or at least less) lazy.

[preraph]

Most women just don't want to have to wonder if the guy is actually a hermit who will never want to go out and kick up his heels. So staying home and cooking dinner is just for once in awhile, and then those skills may come in handy once you're married with kids, but most women will still want a night out.

 

Also, early on in dating, just getting the woman to your place makes her thinks all you care about is having sex and that you don't even want to take her out and do fun things first.

[Shining One]

Most women just don't want to have to wonder if the guy is actually a hermit who will never want to go out and kick up his heels. So staying home and cooking dinner is just for once in awhile, and then those skills may come in handy once you're married with kids, but most women will still want a night out.

 

Also, early on in dating, just getting the woman to your place makes her thinks all you care about is having sex and that you don't even want to take her out and do fun things first.

I understand that many women prefer to go out. What I'm asking here is how they measure level of effort and why do they label Scenario 1 as little/no effort.

[d0nnivain]

Most times in the 1st scenario you mention there is no dinner. All person A does is open a bag of chips, offer a beer or some other simple beverage & press play on a video recorder.

 

 

Women don't object to having dinner made for them & we recognize that making dinner involves effort. They object to an early offer from a guy they barely know to come to his house & have sex with him.

[Kamille]

The "effort" is calculated in terms of effort put into romancing a woman before proposing a scenario that could involve sex.

[Shining One]

Most times in the 1st scenario you mention there is no dinner. All person A does is open a bag of chips, offer a beer or some other simple beverage & press play on a video recorder.

I clearly don't date men, so I'll defer to your experience on how often this happens. However, I've seen threads on here in which women referred to men inviting them over and cooking dinner as lazy and putting in little/no effort.

[NotASkunk]

Scenario A shows a lot of effort on the part of the man. I'd much rather stay in and kick back and take my shoes off and watch a movie or listen to great music and eat a good meal with somebody who I'm attracted to than go out and have coffee. That sounds boring.

[d0nnivain]

I clearly don't date men, so I'll defer to your experience on how often this happens. However, I've seen threads on here in which women referred to men inviting them over and cooking dinner as lazy and putting in little/no effort.

 

 

It's a safety issue too. As a woman if I don't know you, I'm not putting myself in a situation I might not be able to get out of. A busy coffee shop that is well lit, with lots of witnesses & multiple exits is easier for me to control then being alone in a strange man's apartment.

 

 

A request that someone come over, rather than planning a date, at least to me made it seem like the romance had gone out of the relationship. Yes, you can plan a romantic evening at home but at least for me there was always something special about going out. As half of an "old married couple" spending time on the couch just seems like a "regular night" with nothing very special about it. Yes, I'm grateful & happy that I'm with my husband but it's routine. So When dating I wanted something else other than what I anticipated a lifetime of.

[somanymistakes]

I've seen this come up in many other threads. This is a question primarily for the ladies, but input from all is welcome. How do you measure the level of effort put into dates?

 

Scenario 1

Person A invites Person B over to their home to watch TV/Movies. Person A handles all hosting responsibilities, which includes cooking dinner, providing drinks, and all cleanup. All Person B had to do was get there.

 

This can mean a lot of different things in different circumstances. Like, if a guy invites me over to his house and he's actually HOSTING, like he's made a multi-course home-cooked meal with some decorations on the table, etc, like you would if you were having a dinner party... then he's definitely making an effort to make it a romantic night.

 

But if a guy invites me to his house to share the same sort of meal he would have had anyway, the same drinks he would have had anyway, watch the same TV he would have watched if I hadn't been there, and "clean up" by washing the dishes that he would have had to wash anyway... I mean, it's not zero effort to add me to the meal, but it sure doesn't feel like he's trying to make it feel special.

 

Which is fine sometimes. Not every single meeting has to be super special.

[Shining One]

The "effort" is calculated in terms of effort put into romancing a woman before proposing a scenario that could involve sex.

Are you're saying that effort only counts if doesn't likely lead to sex?

[Kamille]

Are you're saying that effort only counts if doesn't likely lead to sex?

 

If dating is successful, hopefully it eventually leads to sex;).

 

But I'm willing to bet that when LS women equate "watching a movie" with "making no effort", it's usually in a scenario where they hardly know the guy. Netflix and chill is code for casual sex for a reason.

 

I'm a woman who is interested in a relationship. I equate "effort" with wooing me. A guy who sets up interesting dates is showing he wants to get to know me. Inviting me over "to watch a movie", if done too early, reads like someone who is looking for casual sex and nothing more. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not what I'm looking for.

 

There is obviously a moment when, if I'm interested, I'll be the one suggesting "dinner at home" or will accept such an invitation. And yes, that means sex is usually on the table, no pun intended.

[Shining One]

I equate "effort" with wooing me.

I think I understand now. Women define and measure effort by criteria subjective to her rather than an objective measure of actual effort involved.

[Kamille]

I think I understand now. Women define and measure effort by criteria subjective to her rather than an objective measure of actual effort involved.

 

 

If that helps you understand it, then go with that.

 

But effort here isn't applied to the same thing. Effort in my case is applied to effort put toward building a relationship, whereas in your OP it is applied to tasks. Both are worthy and both are objectively measurable .

[rester]

I've seen this come up in many other threads. This is a question primarily for the ladies, but input from all is welcome. How do you measure the level of effort put into dates?

 

Scenario 1

Person A invites Person B over to their home to watch TV/Movies. Person A handles all hosting responsibilities, which includes cooking dinner, providing drinks, and all cleanup. All Person B had to do was get there.

 

Scenario 2

Person A invites Person B out for coffee. They meet up at a coffee shop halfway between them. Person A pays for the coffee and snacks.

 

I often see Person A in Scenario 1 being described as lazy and putting in zero effort, which is clearly hyperbole. Having been Person A in both scenarios, I can objectively say that Scenario 1 is more effort for me. However, many ladies here consider it as lazy while Scenario 2 is seen as not (or at least less) lazy.

 

The way you have worded these scenarios (without context), the home cooked meal would clearly be more effort put forth.

 

However, context matters. They can both be considered inappropriate dates depending on how well you know a woman.

 

For instance, inviting a woman over for dinner when you barely know her is, in most cases, inappropriate and will be perceived (fairly or not, but that's besides the point) as you wanting sex too soon.

 

Likewise, inviting someone out for coffee after you've already met or been on a date or two will be perceived as too friendly/platonic. The only women I go out for coffee with are coworkers or very rarely a platonic female friend.

 

You need to work up from casual dates to the home cooked meal after getting to know someone better. There are also legitimate safety concerns that come with going over to someone's house before they get to know each other.

[Shining One]

The way you have worded these scenarios (without context), the home cooked meal would clearly be more effort put forth.

 

However, context matters. They can both be considered inappropriate dates depending on how well you know a woman.

 

For instance, inviting a woman over for dinner when you barely know her is, in most cases, inappropriate and will be perceived (fairly or not, but that's besides the point) as you wanting sex too soon.

 

Likewise, inviting someone out for coffee after you've already met or been on a date or two will be perceived as too friendly/platonic. The only women I go out for coffee with are coworkers or very rarely a platonic female friend.

 

You need to work up from casual dates to the home cooked meal after getting to know someone better. There are also legitimate safety concerns that come with going over to someone's house before they get to know each other.

The question wasn't about appropriateness or safety. It was about level of effort and how effort is measured.

[todreaminblue]

maybe its not an effort thing but a level of imagination thing...its not very inventive......i think it would be more of an imagination thing if you added a share cook to it......

 

or maybe a drive in movie with a picnic would be more inventive.....or having retro movies with retro food like burgers and fries and shakes and you can do healthy options...dry fry etc.....maybe thats too cheesy ......but like theme it to the movie...if you watched rattatoullie have a french style dinner......that sort of thing....when i set up dates i normally do put some thought into it.....and i respect a guy who puts a littel bit of effort in....as in thought...brain work.....but im old fashioned and i know it....

 

to be truthful coffeee dates are boring to me and generic unless its an old fifties diner with rollerskating waitresses....and old jukeboxes at booth tables.........its not the money.....its the thought and enthusiasm.....i would rather feed ducks in the park.....where conversation could be inspired and free flowing......deb

[somanymistakes]

The question wasn't about appropriateness or safety. It was about level of effort and how effort is measured.

 

These issues are still relevant, because if someone says you're not making an effort, you have to understand WHAT they think you should be making an effort TOWARDS.

 

If I spend all day shoveling snow and then come in and pop a hot pocket into the microwave, I haven't made much effort with dinner, even though I've obviously put a lot of effort into other things in my day.

[johngalt1149]

Scenario 1 is clearly not appropriate until you know that person when dealing with M/F relationships.

[Shining One]

These issues are still relevant, because if someone says you're not making an effort, you have to understand WHAT they think you should be making an effort TOWARDS.

 

If I spend all day shoveling snow and then come in and pop a hot pocket into the microwave, I haven't made much effort with dinner, even though I've obviously put a lot of effort into other things in my day.

Not sure I follow your example. If my girlfriend spent all day shoveling snow for me and then microwaved hot pockets for our dinner, I would not say she put in no effort.

[preraph]

I understand that many women prefer to go out. What I'm asking here is how they measure level of effort and why do they label Scenario 1 as little/no effort.

 

Because staying home and cooking is something you will be able to do plenty of and have to do plenty of once you are a family. It's fine once in awhile, of course, but only combined with going and doing fun things outside of the daily environment. People like variety, most of them. Staying home and cooking is something women do just about every day...

[somanymistakes]

Not sure I follow your example. If my girlfriend spent all day shoveling snow for me and then microwaved hot pockets for our dinner, I would not say she put in no effort.

 

In this theoretical case she put in no effort for the dinner. She obviously put in a lot of effort for other things!

 

That's exactly why I'm saying the context matters. You have to know the framing behind the whole thing, you have to know what criteria it's being judged on. Because if you judge that day solely on the cooking, it's low effort.

 

Someone may judge a date with you based on all sorts of criteria. They might judge based on how much you considered THEIR tastes. They might judge based on how far you went outside of your everyday routine. Different people will feel differently about it, none of us can give you an answer for All Women.

 

For me personally I stick with my original comment about calling it "low effort" if it looks like the meal you were going to make anyway and the TV you were going to watch anyway. In that case, you're inviting me to share with you, which is nice enough, but you aren't doing anything special to make it a romantic evening.

[gaius]

As much as we try to artificially "evolve" ourselves resource sharing is hard coded into our DNA as part of the mating game. So no matter how you want to spin it not taking your girl out at least once in a while and spending a little money on her leaves something missing. And will rightfully get you grief.

[Shining One]

Someone may judge a date with you based on all sorts of criteria. They might judge based on how much you considered THEIR tastes. They might judge based on how far you went outside of your everyday routine. Different people will feel differently about it, none of us can give you an answer for All Women.

 

For me personally I stick with my original comment about calling it "low effort" if it looks like the meal you were going to make anyway and the TV you were going to watch anyway. In that case, you're inviting me to share with you, which is nice enough, but you aren't doing anything special to make it a romantic evening.

This makes sense. Adding a second person to a meal you were going to make any way is usually low effort and I can see that being judged as low effort. How does the woman in question determine that though? Personally, whenever a woman invited me over and cooked me dinner, I never considered her as putting in little effort.

[Shining One]

As much as we try to artificially "evolve" ourselves resource sharing is hard coded into our DNA as part of the mating game. So no matter how you want to spin it not taking your girl out at least once in a while and spending a little money on her leaves something missing. And will rightfully get you grief.

I don't know about you, but I spend more on hosting dinner for someone than I do for coffee. The ingredients for the food are more than coffee by itself, even if I don't include the drinks I buy specifically for my date. Thus, if money is factored into the effort calculation, I don't see how a coffee date is seen as higher effort than a decent home-cooked meal.

[d0nnivain]

I don't know about you, but I spend more on hosting dinner for someone than I do for coffee. The ingredients for the food are more than coffee by itself, even if I don't include the drinks I buy specifically for my date. Thus, if money is factored into the effort calculation, I don't see how a coffee date is seen as higher effort than a decent home-cooked meal.

 

 

It's not. But on some level you are comparing apples to oranges.

 

 

Compare a home cooked meal to a dinner out. Clearly the dinner out is more money. Money is not effort. It takes little to no effort to select a restaurant & read from a menu.

 

 

It's not about effort as it is in perceived value. Asking somebody to your home has devolved into a coded request for sex. When the invitation to a man's home comes early in the relationship especially before the couple has had sex, the woman almost automatically thinks the guy is saying she's not even worth his time & trouble to leave him home. She feels like he's demanding sex be delivered to him because he's too lazy to even come & get it.