Ex-MM is confusing me

[joodee]

I ran into my ex-MM at work earlier in the week (we haven't been seeing each other for awhile), long story short he asked me for a ride to the airport the week after next, he's going to see his mom and siblings for a week. Like a good hearted idiot I said sure, no problem. Then he said I should come along. I said, "Where would I stay," and he at first said he'd find a place, then he said in his old room (at his mom's house). Like a dummy I said that sounded tempting, and he said for me to let him know.

 

I guess I was thinking that here he was, suggesting I stay with him at his mom's house, when he's been keeping me from her and his family all this time, and now he sounded ok with it?????

 

I figured, let him cpntact me and bring it up, cause I wasn't. On Friday he e-mailed me with his flight info so I would know when to drop him off and pick him up when he returned. That was my signal to e-mail him back and ask, "were you serious or just making conversation at suggesting I go with you back east to meet your mom?" He said he was serious and to let him know so he'd tell his mom. I e-mailed him back with dates that I could be there, he e-mailed "OK". This was all on Friday. I'm thinking someone is going to call someone's bluff here, cause I'm thinking, why would he want me around his mom after all this time (cause I'm supposed to have been the secret from his family). And what the heck is going on with his W, anyway?

 

Saturday night I was feeling down and decided to call him and be direct and ask what's really going on, was he really going to take action, did he really want me there, let's settle this. WELL, I tried to call, however.....

 

1) his home phone just rang and rang....this means he unplugged the phone (I saw him do this when I was over there) so it wouldn't ring, which from my experience means he has someone over, and....

 

2) His cell phone was turned off, so he couldn't get calls and/or have it ring.

 

These are his tricks that he would do when he was with me, so I wouldn't hear other women that he was playing call. My gut says he cut off direct communication because he was busy with another woman and didn't want the one he was with to know, etc....

 

I know he wasn't with his W, that's a fact.

 

I haven't heard from him since Friday, and I haven't tried since Saturday when I couldn't contact him. I am in no mood to call or e-mail. Do I still take him to the airport or tell him to have whoever he was with take him??? I mean, since we are broken up I don't think I have a right to be upset about him back to his old tricks, but I don't know about taking him to the airport after Saturday.

 

And should I get an airline ticket to go see him back east? I feel if I don't, he'll come back and say "I knew you wouldn't", yet I feel if I get a ticket and tell him I'm all set to go, he might pick a fight or do something to make sure that my meeting his mother doesnt' happen, which means he wasn't serious all along and was counting on me to not make plans to go. But what do I care, since the signs are there that he was with another woman and also has not taken action with W??? And we aren't really seeing each other, so why should I even bother? He hasn't changed at all, he still would rather be a player than fix his life.

 

I'm confused and need advice. I haven't contacted him at all cause I was not sure what to do, sorry if I sound nuts.

[LucreziaBorgia]

The best thing to prevent any new pain? Don't contact him. Don't do the airport thing. Don't get tickets. Just turn off your phone, block his email, and just walk away from this. It no longer matters what he wants, or how he is going to get to places he needs to go.

 

 

No new contacts = no new hurts.

[A Fly onThe Wall]

Originally posted by LucreziaBorgia

No new contacts = no new hurts.

 

Word

[whichwayisup]

He has some nerve asking you to take him to the airport and to pick him up. Then to see if you're willing to go with him. What an a-hole!

 

Write him back, tell him to take a cab like a big boy and never to contact you again.

 

It's like he was just seeing if you were still interested - You took the bait and then he backed off. Stop playing period. Nothing says F OFF more than pure silence...

[joodee]

Hey gang, thanks for responding, it's so obvious what I need to do....

 

I feel really bad right now, you are right, it was just to see if I was still around. I don't understand why I feel so bad, I thought I was on my way to feeling better.

 

Asking me for a ride to the airport and seeing if I would go with him back east is what set me back, it threw me off from my healing. And what happens the first time I initiate a phone in a very long time? Gee, he's "unavailable." He's probably been "unavailable" to phone calls from me and his W and whoever else he sees for a long time, and I didn't realize it since I haven't dialed his numbers for a long time.

 

I really need a kick in the pants to keep NC on my part.

[newbby]

i agree with what everyone else has said.

joodee, my mm pulled a similar trick with me not too long ago, it was what caused me to do nc.

i think they have a need to be loved and wanted by as many women as possible, and they use all the tricks they can to ensure this happens.

joodee, i feel for you, i know what its like, you begin to get worn down by them and believe that maybe, just maybe..

and then as soon as you succumb they change, its not nice.

as everyone else has said, dont even give him the chance.

[whichwayisup]

I feel really bad right now, you are right, it was just to see if I was still around. I don't understand why I feel so bad, I thought I was on my way to feeling better.

 

Don't beat yourself up so much. You made an error in judgement, you trusted him - Enough to consider going with him on his trip - Which is what he wanted so then he could knock you down afew notches. His ego needed to be fed.

 

IF there is a next time, do not give him the time of day. The only way to stop playing into his ego trap is not to play the game at all. Eventually his ego will realize this and he'll either leave you alone or keep on trying. If he has any spine left he'll leave you alone.

[joodee]

Well I tried my best to stick to NC, and I wound up talking to him. I got so mad at myself, I thought, okay, what action can you now take? I signed up for a membership at eharmony...

 

And no, I am not going on any trip with him.

 

This is tougher than I thought. Maybe it's because I was with visiting family all week, and they pretty much don't have a high opinion of me (not because of the MM, just in general). Maybe that could lead to wanting attention from anyone????

 

I will re-read the thread here, cause I don't want to have new hurts cause of contact.

[newbby]

my family dont have a high opinion of me either.

i try to have as little to do with them as possible now and i panic if i have to spend time with them.

i think this is as essential as cutting the mm from your life.

i think the thing is that you kind of have to put up with family treating you poorly so it makes it easier to put up with these kinds of treatment, possibly?? i dont know.

but i do know that you shouldnt be around anyone who makes you feel bad, just cut them off, as much as possible. none of my family can contact me, without me contacting them. i have done this in such a way, they wouldnt realise it, as i wouldnt want to hurt them.

the mm is another of the same, its just stuff you dont need in your life and dont deserve.

however, i know that if you get rid of other stressors and things that weaken you, you will not cling to him so much. i used to do this, if i had just spoken to some of my family and they had said something horrible, i used to get the anger and do something crazy and unthinking like speak to him, even if he had been a complete jerk.

[joodee]

Hi Newwby,

You are making sense. I also read your post in another thread about how compulsive liars don't change, and that there must be a problem if he has multiple relationships going on for some time. I think he has a very serious problem, but for me to even try to address it or do anything at this point will only result in him telling me more lies, more hurt for me, etc. That would be a total co-dependency thing.

 

I think I always had this fantasy in my head that he would change for me, that he loved me so much, he would move mountains to be with me. I have to get it through my head that he's not going to do that. Every time I told him that I couldn't see him anymore unless he got a divorce, his reaction was to line up other women and NOT take any action on his marriage. It's like saying to me that if you don't want me as I am, married and a liar and a cheat, I can find someone else who does. I know for a fact that two other women that he was trying to see while seeing me did not know he was married, he had told them his W left him and divorced him. It's like nothing has changed, his actions are telling me he wants to be a player, he wants to lie to women and not tell them he's married. He really has a problem.

 

I don't know if you read this on another thread, I sent him the website about Charles' Kuralt and told him in my e-mail that I don't want to be the other woman. He replied but I deleted his reply. Did I do the right thing in sending him that? And why am I feeling bad that I sent that to him? Why would I be concerned if he was offended? My thought when I sent that to him was that I didn't want to put up with this anymore, and that's the only way he would know what I was going through, and to see what I don't want to be.

[newbby]

I don't know if you read this on another thread, I sent him the website about Charles' Kuralt and told him in my e-mail that I don't want to be the other woman. He replied but I deleted his reply. Did I do the right thing in sending him that? And why am I feeling bad that I sent that to him? Why would I be concerned if he was offended? My thought when I sent that to him was that I didn't want to put up with this anymore, and that's the only way he would know what I was going through, and to see what I don't want to be.

 

perhaps he thinks you want him to earn more money

seriously though, i think the only mistake you are making is thinking that he has the capacity to either understand what you are going through, care, or change his behaviour accordingly.

remember, in all relationships, you have to accept people as they are, and decide whether you want them in your life and if so in what role, as they are.

it doesnt mean that people cannot change, because of course they can.

you have no guarantee of that happening though.

i think also, from what you say, that you have taken this on as all your responsibility. you have taken his not changing for you personally. this is why you analyse each thing you do and say to him, afterwards. it wouldnt matter joodee, if your a*** hung in diamonds, nobody will ever change, for you. only ever for themselves. do you know who his wife is joodee? i dont know if you think it might help to actually talk to her and see what she says, you may find that he has had this problem for a very very long time.

i had a relationship with a compulsive liar once, it was the most frustrating relationship i ever had.

[lust4life]

Joodee,

 

I read somewhere that "if you are not in a healthy place in life you will attract unhealthy people". Think that sentence through and decide if this MM is a emotionally healthy person.

 

You wrote that HE hasn't changed. What you should be concerned about is the fact that you haven't changed. You are still acting like a puppy just waiting for a little bone...

 

He is a big boy, let him get himself to the airport! HOW ridiculous.

 

Would you really be comfortable going to meet his family? It is just so off the wall!

 

Do you really want to be part of this craziness? You think he has multiple women, and he is married and you were truly thinking about going to go meet his mom? What would you say as you stuck out your hand in way of introduction? "Hi, I am one of 5-6-7 women your son sleeps with and his wife doesn't know so please don't tell her I am here visiting?"

 

Does anyone else just find this too weird!?!

[tinareed]

For heaven sake,

leave us alone. You stated in another web site that you are a married woman who's husband cheated on her three years ago so go to the infidelity site. PLEASE> We are in enough pain and will NOT listen to you.

[joodee]

Newwby, yes, you are right, I think I have taken this all way too personally. I was in therapy for about a year, I haven't been since May, I think it's time to go back. In relationships I tend to blame myself, which I have learned is not the right thing to do. I was really strong and good about detaching, and not blaming myself, but since this whole airport asking stuff, I lost my footing. And I'm not seeing him! And I know I can't go back to having a relationship with him. I don't know his wife, though I know her phone number. From what he has told me about their relationship, now I believe that his lying and hiding other women may have driven her to move out about 8, 9 years ago. And from what I know, she has someone else in her life. But I also know she still loves him, he says not, but I know from snooping that she does. That would be an interesting conversation, to see how long he's really had this "problem."

 

Lustforlife, he is definitely not an emotionally healthy person, that's for sure. I really don't want to be a part of the "craziness", it is not a normal scenario. A part of me said, if he wants to introduce you to his mother, that means he doesn't want to keep you a secret anymore, and he's finally going to deal with his W that he hasn't lived with for several years. But my gut (and others who posted here) said don't do it, don't fall for it. So I didn't go. I really believe if I bought a ticket, he would have started some argument or would have at the last minute found a hotel room for me to stay in so I wouldn't have to meet her. I really believe he knew I wouldn't buy a ticket. I actually thought about getting a ticket just to see how he would react, which would have confirmed once and for all what he was really made of.

 

I do have to say that I, like Tinareed, am in pain, I am in alot of pain, it's extremely difficult for me to fully detach. I didn't know it would be, cause for some reason MMs are really persuasive and charming and don't easily let us go when we try to detach from them. And as you may have read from other posts, many of us didn't intend to get involved with a MM. And we post here so we can deal with it and get as much objective feedback as possible so we can ultimately move on. I hope that makes sense.

[newbby]

its so easy to lose your footing, i do it all the time.

he is speaking to me again, and i feel better now. i am pretty sure that he no longer finds me sexually desirable, or at least no longer wants an a, but i dont care about that. why? i do not know. why i feel ok just because he is speaking to me and feel ok that he doesnt want me romantically, makes no sense to me, because i still feel romantically for him. i accept it though if he doesnt feel this way about me, i just dont want him to ignore me.

joodee, did you feel that therapy helped you? you sounded very strong for a while, in fact the last time i was feeling so weak, i thought i wished i could be as strong as you sounded. it is very hard to not let your hopes up when they are working so hard on you. it is exactly what happened to me when i melted and slept with him again after so long. the fantasy that we build up around the relationship, well they can be very good at seeming to fit their role for a little while, until they get what they want of course, then it all changes.

my mms last move was very strange, he did all of that just until i allowed him to visit me, then when i did, he just talked for a while and didnt want to come anywhere near me, physically. i think mostly it is all about seeing how far you would go with them.

joodee, i cannot tell you the answer to getting over him, i wish i knew it myself. i am happy with things as they are, but am questioning myself a little why that is??? i really do not know.

[joodee]

I think just know they still want to talk to us takes away the pain of the reality of the situation. It's like a fix (for lack of a better term). It makes sense, what you are saying, and it could be a step towards you getting over him.

 

I actually feel better tonight, I've been doing stuff for myself, signed up for classes (I'm mvoing forward and I am going to finish my second bachelor's degree that I started), I'm getting my hair done tomorrow, and all my laundry is done! It's also easy when he doesn't call or text or e-mail, he's now out of town, but it's so nice to know he's away for awhile so I can focus on my healing. I'm sorry how the mm treated you on his last move, I like you don't like that kind of stuff.

 

Therapy did help alot, it was good to get the feedback from what I was saying, and my therapist did not pull punches. She flat out said he was a player, and will keep trying and trying, and then he'll give up and find someone else to play with, that he lies, he manipulates, and she did recognize that he might love me, but that he doesn't know how to love. She also said he was sick and needed lots of help. That one was hard to hear, but after posting here about him and having other women besides me, I realized my therapist was right, something is not right with him.

 

Therapy also brought out why I was having trouble leaving, my issues with my work life and with my parents, but I also discovered I'm pretty strong. And Newwby, you are too!

[lust4life]

to want to move on and not be in pain would be a good part of life. To remain in pain and perpetually hopeful doesn't make life gratifying.

 

I would have felt really badly for the OW my H slept with if she had not known he was married. When someone is married though, that is so black and white that someone is going to get hurt. More than someONE actually. I think it would be great to have infidlelity and the aftermath more widely publisized- I can't help but think that more people would benefit by realizing that there is no good outcome. If there were a few more moments of outward reflection before the beginning of an affair less people would get involved in them.

 

Pain and heartbreak, I know that these do exist for OW I know it, I have read for three years about it and I helped the OW think a bit differently than she had been about her own affair with my H. She thought they would both get divorced and get married. She showed me an email she had written to him about it where she lead herself to believe he had resoonded like and kind, when in fact he had not. I do htink that projection happens most of the time in affairs, in other words- the women speak and believe if the man doesn't negate it, then it is so. Pain and heartbreak when entering into an affair are inevitable. The family will be hurt, the OW or SM or SW will be hurt, the pompous MM will somehow be hurt also, but not nearly like the rest involved or the innocent. The pain and heartache can be avoiding, and is self inflicted, surely you can all see that.

 

A little more black and white thinking would produce a lot less heart ache. Love isn't blind, it is a choice. Love doesn't just happen, it is cultivated. Marriages aren't just a relationship they are a bond that that very often isn;t broken even by the breach of infidelity.

 

Thanks for the kind words and welcome, I think that hearing and knowing both sides or all sides to situations can help many of us.

[newbby]

lust4life,

i have to say again that sometimes there can be a little TOO much black and white thinking. it is not always the case that the ow says things and takes a lack of defineable answer as an agreement. it is not also always the case that the relationship is all about projection.

quite often, the mm outright LIES to get what he wants from the ow. i have to say that before i found this site, i did not completely dispute the lies my mm told me, i wondered, but i half believed what he said and the other half of me wanted to believe what he said.

i guess we can all suffer from wanting to believe things, cant we?

[joodee]

I do have to agree with Newwby, the MM does outright lie, I know mine did. And as my therapist pointed out, all we have is each other's word, we can only go by what people tell us. And when we find out someone lies, that is a person that one should just walk away from. There's even a quote in the bible somewhere that says one cannot deal with a liar.

 

It is with help of sites like this that we realize what MMs that go outside of their marriage are trying to do.

 

Regarding the black and white, that's worth thinking about. I know from now on, if a man is married and approaches me, I'd say no without any hesitation. Period. No matter if he's separated, whatever, no way. I went into the gray area because when I first got together with the MM, I did not know he was married. Then when I found out, I was all sent to say no. Then I asked what I thought were important questions, like, did he live alone, why were they separated, how long were they married, etc. Based on his answers, and based on bad advice from friends that were dying to see me with a man, I gave it a chance. His answers? He lived alone (and still lives alone) for several years, they were living separate lives, long story short. They do live separate lives. At that moment I should have said to call me when you are divorced. I have learned much from all this.

 

Another reason I went into the grey area is because my brother met the love of his life while married to someone else, and so did my cousin, and several friends. And it worked out for all of them. So I thought that was what I thought was supposed to happen to me.

[lust4life]

MY MM (husband) outright lied. To me and to her so? That doesn't make him any less married. It didn't make her any less married either. Strangely, she said she was honest in everything she did! Okay, so do you think she went to her husband and said I am flying to florida with this married guy from work and we are going to have sex for a few days! Yeah, okay she was honest- geez.

 

 

So, you now know people lie. That should make the decesion to think more in black and white easier. MM lie to get something, and what is sad is they are generally getting what they want at home also.

In my case my H was looking to experience analsex. So, he really was out there just looking for a piece of ass. (haha!) No, I did not tell her that's all he wanted, I let her keep some dignity. He did not get what he was after and he wasn't really happy trying to be loving towards her to try to get it. From reading the OW boards it is often something like this the MM decides he wants and isn't big enough to have an outright talk with his spouse. I have read many times that MM often think that they can use another women for certain things and therefore are keeping their wife CLEAN. I actually read one guys post saying he used prostitutes for BJs because he didn't want the mother of his kids kissing the kids after swallowing sperm!! Good lord, huh?

 

Anyhow, I do hope you find a single guy that makes your heart leap and that your heart isn't too burdened to not get past this a little more quickly.

[joodee]

I am doing my best to unburden my heart, it's difficult. I signed up for eharmony, I hope that step will lead to other steps in meeting available men.

 

I appreciate your posting, you are sharing a different perspective that I think actually is necessary to jolt some of us in reality. If you don't mind me asking (since I haven't read some of your posts), where are things at with your husband? And has learned to tell the truth and what his actions and lies have caused for all involved? (Note: this isn't taking blame away from the OW's actions)?

[newbby]

In my case my H was looking to experience analsex. So, he really was out there just looking for a piece of ass. (haha!) No, I did not tell her that's all he wanted, I let her keep some dignity. He did not get what he was after and he wasn't really happy trying to be loving towards her to try to get it. From reading the OW boards it is often something like this the MM decides he wants and isn't big enough to have an outright talk with his spouse. I have read many times that MM often think that they can use another women for certain things and therefore are keeping their wife CLEAN. I actually read one guys post saying he used prostitutes for BJs because he didn't want the mother of his kids kissing the kids after swallowing sperm!! Good lord, huh?

 

this is quite an awful thought. of course they are suspicions that go through my mind, but i dont think i can quite deal with thinking it is only about that.

i know you are trying to be helpful and i agree with joodee, it is good to get another perspective. the few mm who have posted in here claim to have loved their ow, or had some amount of feelings for her.

i think it is very hard to get an accurate picture of your own situations as everyone who posts in here, wife, mm, ow, all have a different perspective. for example, and i am not saying this is you by any means, there are some wives who come in here who have clearly been completely lied to by their h's both during and after the affair.

it is quite likely the a discovered h will say it was about nothing more than sex or that the ow pursued him or offered him sex, to save his own a$$.

there is a philanderers website where alot of the married people claim to love their op.

i think i myself was possibly one of the unlucky ones who was not loved, but in many ways i do believe he liked me and had some feelings for me. there wasnt a great deal of physical stuff anyway. i think he did need his ego boosted though.

in the beginning, i think he was so caught up in what he thought he felt for me that he was ready to leave his marriage, then the reality of it all set in.

i did know he was married, and was adamant that i would not do anything with him. i was very very drunk the first time and the evening is a blank. after that he left her for a little while, and then he began to come round and lie to me about what was happening. they were splitting up etc and they were living seperate lives.

it is only after the end of the affair and some sort of friendship that i am beginning to get a very slightly clearer picture of how things stand in their home.

i was wrong to go with a married man and i cant argue with that.

at the time i was incredibly lonely and i do believe it saved me from alot of the depression i was going through.

i believe it also saved their marriage.

[lust4life]

we had a pretty shaky first year. He did damage control for 6 months and I said "screw you" and filed for divorce then set up a schedule where he took care of the kids one week and I the next. Then I put up a personals ad and dated for 6-8 months. It was very interesting. I was scared to death, as you might imagine after almost 18 years of marriage back then. I hadn't been seen naked by another man in so long and was a pretty big chicken about dating. One thing I kept saying was I would not stay married out of fear. Fear of finances or dating etc...so filing for divoce told me what I would have financially and who I would be attracted to, and who would be attracted to me.

 

Long story short, I dated alot. I even got naked with a man! Even a little more but as they say not all the way. I over came my fear and that was great. My Husband realized he had better come entriely clean with affair information and then backed it up with a polygraph to prove it. We started dating eachother I let the divorce go in the trash and we are doing great. (except during pms- that is a whole different thing now with infidelity in there to piss me off!!)

 

He is back to how I used to see him. Kind and gentle, always busy with me and the kids or just me . We turned the priority around to US. He works less and has not had any business travel in three years. He keeps in contact during the day and we are sickening! Yep, we get the "oh, aren't you just a cute couple" statements all the time. He truly GETS IT. NO more lies, no more secrets.

 

You know, before I knew he was having an affair it hurt my feelings when I would go to use his cell and he would say 'use your own', now of course I realize it was a huge red flag that should have slapped me in the face! But, there is none of that sort of awkwardness and he is not late coming home from work, he misses far too much work actually, but hey, it's fun. He also shares his thoughts so much more openly, I don't know what it is with some men but I think they feel they will just get rejected if they are open with their wants or fantasies...not anymore haha!

 

I somtimes now do feel badly for the married woman he saw, she was trying to end her marriage over just 6 sexual encounters, she really wanted to marry my husband. He, like so many other MM, had no intention of doing anything of the sort he was actually trying to end what little they did have going on because HE wasn't getting what he wanted out of it.

[lust4life]

Right, it isn't me, my H sat through three hours of a polygraph to prove he had told me the truth. The polygraph only covered four direct questions and then the tester asked a bunch of random ones. What my H didn't realize was that not all of them could be accurately monitored but I paid extra for the whole print out.

One question was, is there anymore information about infidelity that you have not told your wife. Another was, are there any lies left in your story. It was great to be able to see the entire sheet with no signs of deception. Finally!

 

I KNOW there are wives out here that just buy the MM Bullsh8t even after an affair, and I know they are likely to be cheated on again because they have not required the change necessary in the relationship.

 

If you wonder that an MM you may be involved with is just after some sexual act, ask them questions like; would you like to try ____> Or "Hey, a girlfriend of mine would join us would you like that?" In an affair many people are trying to be more adventurous than in "real life" even the MW that are in affairs. Part of what I did with my husband was tell him I wanted him to be more adventurous and less afraid I would reject him. And it has been really fun.

 

Hey, I don't even remember what this thread was about hehehe!

[joodee]

This thread was about the ex-mm confusing me!!

 

Lust4life, seriously, I am glad you posted your story, I think it did you some good. And me, too. You required change from your husband and you stuck to it, and now things have turned around. That is really good!! And that you said "we turned the priority around to us". That's what I always thought relationships were all about, making the priority each other, and I am glad to see your husband change.