Taking flight without any fights

[Thinky]

We've been seeing each other about 6 months. It's gone very well, we took things slowly and have had a nice time. We have lots in common and the same values. No drama, no fights. We've become fantastic friends, seemed to be connecting really well, have had loads of fun and intimacy was very very good.

(He's late 30s, I'm early 40s).

 

But today we met after he had a few days staying with family that didn't go so well when he was there. Heightened emotions and arguing with his siblings. He was very upset talking about it.

 

He then said he's been thinking alot lately that he thinks he doesn't feel the same as me. That there isn't balance in the relationship. He's sensing I'm on the verge of falling in love and he said his emotions are just numb. He said he can't love. Lalala doesn't want to hurt me by extending it and can't see a future together. All wrapped up in, 'you're the nicest, cutest, kindest person I've met in years...there's nothing you have done that has turned me away'

 

It's true we haven't exchanged 'I love yous,' but the connection was getting deep, and on both sides. He was equally showing interest in me, communicating first daily, or responding straight away, he set up dates and has told me how much he likes me, wants me etc.

 

I think it's all not completely surprising for me tbh as he said right at the start that he struggled with emotions. Despite being excellent at communicating, there has been a sadness sometimes and some self-depricating comments. Underlying everything is the fact he has pretty bad depression and can get very low indeed, however, this has been under control with meds these past months. His Dr strongly advised him to have counselling, which he hasn't yet, but is looking in to.

He's said to me he was happy with us several times and wanted the relationship, 'of course'...

He also very recently said he thought he had BPD. We discussed it briefly and I think I was supportive to his worries.

 

I guess the biggest underlying hitch is unresolved emotions and feelings from both our previous long term relationships. In both cases we were hurt very deeply by our ex's. (his was very abusive over 10yrs). These relationships both ended more than 3 years ago. We both tried dating other people in that time (not so successfully) until we met. I think I may have loved my ex a little when we met, whereas he said he hated his. We talked about this. Please note, neither of us wanted any relationship whatsoever with these ex's when we got together.

He said he doesn't want me to hate him. He also thinks he has been conditioned to believe that love doesn't come without hate.

 

So this is where I'm at- I was being a supportive, loving girlfriend and my boyfriend says he can't love me back. Arrh! He is very sensitive and I'm beginning to think he is scared to love again. It feels insane that a few days ago before his trip, we were really into one another, sending sweet texts and kisses and now it's been flipped on it's head?!

I 100% know there isn't anyone else...only the emotional skeletons...

 

I really don't want to give up on something that's been very good, especially without trying to unpick some underlying layers that are causing him to run from love. He says he has feelings for me but OMG how do I scramble out of this friendzone, it's surely worth fighting for?

I'm no psychologist but things have suddenly become seriously complicated.

 

My anxiety tonight is rocketing.

 

What do I do and what do I say?

 

Please help, we're meeting on Sunday but he just said he doesn't want to get my hopes up that it isn't final.

Arrrrrrrrrrh!

 

We've been talking every day for 6 months- I'm not sure I can deal with losing this lovely man. It feels like something terrified him with his family, he said there were some very nasty unkind comments said to him. And now its had this impact on us!

 

Thankyou for reading this far and thankyou for any help you can offer, I'm feeling very very sad about it all. I don't wanna give up on him!

[Techmonkey]

Unfortunately there's not much you can do or say. He needs to work through this himself. Just be understanding and let him go if he feels he can't handle a relationship right now. He may come around after he sorts himself out. Especially if he starts counseling.

[Maldives]

We've been seeing each other about 6 months. It's gone very well, we took things slowly and have had a nice time. We have lots in common and the same values. No drama, no fights. We've become fantastic friends, seemed to be connecting really well, have had loads of fun and intimacy was very very good.

(He's late 30s, I'm early 40s).

 

But today we met after he had a few days staying with family that didn't go so well when he was there. Heightened emotions and arguing with his siblings. He was very upset talking about it.

 

He then said he's been thinking alot lately that he thinks he doesn't feel the same as me. That there isn't balance in the relationship. He's sensing I'm on the verge of falling in love and he said his emotions are just numb. He said he can't love. Lalala doesn't want to hurt me by extending it and can't see a future together. All wrapped up in, 'you're the nicest, cutest, kindest person I've met in years...there's nothing you have done that has turned me away'

 

It's true we haven't exchanged 'I love yous,' but the connection was getting deep, and on both sides. He was equally showing interest in me, communicating first daily, or responding straight away, he set up dates and has told me how much he likes me, wants me etc.

 

I think it's all not completely surprising for me tbh as he said right at the start that he struggled with emotions. Despite being excellent at communicating, there has been a sadness sometimes and some self-depricating comments. Underlying everything is the fact he has pretty bad depression and can get very low indeed, however, this has been under control with meds these past months. His Dr strongly advised him to have counselling, which he hasn't yet, but is looking in to.

He's said to me he was happy with us several times and wanted the relationship, 'of course'...

He also very recently said he thought he had BPD. We discussed it briefly and I think I was supportive to his worries.

 

I guess the biggest underlying hitch is unresolved emotions and feelings from both our previous long term relationships. In both cases we were hurt very deeply by our ex's. (his was very abusive over 10yrs). These relationships both ended more than 3 years ago. We both tried dating other people in that time (not so successfully) until we met. I think I may have loved my ex a little when we met, whereas he said he hated his. We talked about this. Please note, neither of us wanted any relationship whatsoever with these ex's when we got together.

He said he doesn't want me to hate him. He also thinks he has been conditioned to believe that love doesn't come without hate.

 

So this is where I'm at- I was being a supportive, loving girlfriend and my boyfriend says he can't love me back. Arrh! He is very sensitive and I'm beginning to think he is scared to love again. It feels insane that a few days ago before his trip, we were really into one another, sending sweet texts and kisses and now it's been flipped on it's head?!

I 100% know there isn't anyone else...only the emotional skeletons...

 

I really don't want to give up on something that's been very good, especially without trying to unpick some underlying layers that are causing him to run from love. He says he has feelings for me but OMG how do I scramble out of this friendzone, it's surely worth fighting for?

I'm no psychologist but things have suddenly become seriously complicated.

 

My anxiety tonight is rocketing.

 

What do I do and what do I say?

 

Please help, we're meeting on Sunday but he just said he doesn't want to get my hopes up that it isn't final.

Arrrrrrrrrrh!

 

We've been talking every day for 6 months- I'm not sure I can deal with losing this lovely man. It feels like something terrified him with his family, he said there were some very nasty unkind comments said to him. And now its had this impact on us!

 

Thankyou for reading this far and thankyou for any help you can offer, I'm feeling very very sad about it all. I don't wanna give up on him!

 

That's his baggage talking his fear. Wow that's been a bit thing for me learning how to unravel the damage and baggage done in a prior relationship. I'm only guessing but would sayou his last relationship really scarred him and he hasn't dealt wth the residue baggage left behind. Amazing how baggage can potentially sabotage the next relationship it has for me a no. Of times. I think what happens is we mix up the experience and wisdom learned from the prior relationship with fear and can't distinguish between the two. It's great to be cautious and have your eyes opened as peoples intentions and agendas can be well hidden. His guarding his heart im not really sure what you can do reassure. The problem with you reassuring all the time etc is you start to get tired of it and that becomes and issue in itself. Unless your really really patient and ready have your emotions go up and down dealing with his issues well this is a hard one. It's your call we are not really 100 percent if it's he's fears talking or if it's the truth. You can only take him at his word so that being said take him at his word. He needs a really good therapist like me im not only gonna go have counselling but I'm going to see a healer to release the negative emotions still in me from some really bad past relationships and hurt good luck. Btw did I mention to take him at his word haha

[EmilyJane]

It's the depression talking.

 

Your instincts weren't wrong. It gets expressed often as being disconnected from you partner/not feeling the same mixed in with not being good enough for them. They start to feel your emotions for them as pressure and expectations

 

http://http://www.huffingtonpost.com/antonio-borrello-phd/is-depression-destroying-_b_8141292.html

http://tinybuddha.com/blog/how-to-maintain-a-healthy-relationship-when-youre-depressed

 

 

The thing is, even if you get through it this time, the likelihood is he will do it every time his depression rears up. So I'm not sure that knowing the likely underlying cause helps much.

 

If you want to stay with him you need to be prepared to not take being broken up with personally. It won't be easy.

 

He will come back if you let him go now and tell him you need to not be in contact unless he wants to be with you. Mine always does even though I am long past the point of wanting him to. Don't hang around and be his friend, that is giving him permission to do this instead of learning to gain insight into his own illness. It will result in enabling him at your expense.

Edited April 22, 2017 by EmilyJane

[Jopes]

It's the depression talking.

 

Your instincts weren't wrong. It gets expressed often as being disconnected from you partner/not feeling the same mixed in with not being good enough for them. They start to feel your emotions for them as pressure and expectations

 

http://http://www.huffingtonpost.com/antonio-borrello-phd/is-depression-destroying-_b_8141292.html

http://tinybuddha.com/blog/how-to-maintain-a-healthy-relationship-when-youre-depressed

 

 

The thing is, even if you get through it this time, the likelihood is he will do it every time his depression rears up. So I'm not sure that knowing the likely underlying cause helps much.

 

If you want to stay with him you need to be prepared to not take being broken up with personally. It won't be easy.

 

He will come back if you let him go now and tell him you need to not be in contact unless he wants to be with you. Mine always does even though I am long past the point of wanting him to. Don't hang around and be his friend, that is giving him permission to do this instead of learning to gain insight into his own illness. It will result in enabling him at your expense.

 

I am sorry for the rude comment. To be honest, your advice is very good and you are supportive. I just wanted to say that i am sorry.

[whatnot]

I've had fears. they can be overwhelming and difficult to face. Fear of extinction. Non-existence. The fear is the identity....so facing the fear appears as psychological suicide....

 

"Nothing to fear but fear itself...." he doesn't know that... I didn't. It can be difficult to know what you fear...fear is a ghost.

 

could be he just doesn't like you. that i do not believe is the problem here lol

Edited April 22, 2017 by whatnot

[Thinky]

Thanks Techmonkey

I think it is too soon to meet him today and you're right, he probably needs more time to work through this current low depression on his own.

I don't want him to project any distorted negative feelings on to me. I would have much rather he sorted his family difficulties with me on board. Then we could have talked more about counselling.

The thing that worries me now is that he hasnt got the counselling sorted yet and the last thing I want to do is abandon him when he has no-one else and is this vulnerable. I'll have to communicate that later today.

[Thinky]

Thanks Goodguy05

I know he was hurt to his core and has deep scars. Thankyou for helping me see that he is mixing his past relationship experience with fear and this relationship aswell I think.

I'll try to be cautious.

I am a really, really patient person. I do a lot of self-reflecting and thinking.

I'm aware that I was that exact emotional crutch, in fact an entite scaffold of support in my last relationship. I don't want to enable him to put off searching for his own internal balance and healthy well-being. We've actually been very active doing sports together and we always eat really healthily. There has been a Lot of laughing too. It has been a good, stable and healthy relationship. But it seems his depression has distorted that view. He was like a really different person when we talked a couple of days ago. It was all black and white thinking and final.

[Thinky]

Thanks EmikyJane

I don't think I can take him at his word just yet. I do agree this could be his depression disconnecting him from me. He said he wanted to disconnect from his whole family too for a while. Which is big as he speaks to his sisters every day. That would also leave him disconnected from everyone as his parents arent alive.

I kind of think he might be going through PTSD from all the tagedy and loss he has experienced. There is a whole lot of unresolved emotional trauma.

It feels like its all surfacing and getting mixed up with his feelings towards me.

I dont think he even meant for it to come out when we talked - his texts leading up to the meeting were all positive and excited.

Our deep conversation covered his mum ill-treating him, self harming (he'd never mentioned this before) and then he was far more graphic about his suicidal past thoughts. We'd only touched on in previously and this time he told me how frequently and daily it affected him ( and how suicide and depression run for generations in his family. I just listened. He was so vulnerable. And then it was my turn to get shut out.

You're right EmilyJane, it is hard not to take it personally as he was quite convincing it was me that didnt make him fall in love. When he has been more well I know he has had strong feelings. The articles really helped me see how depression can switch thinking suddenly. I'm kind of wondering if he has ever experienced a healthy, loving relationship.

I'm not ready to just 'let him go' especially when he has just opened up to me. He is totally vulnerable.

 

I'm still going to have to work out how to be there but not be the emotional crutch friend that enables him to carry on in the same way without seeking insight into his illness.

 

How do I say that in brief? I cant do a deep conversation yet, I think I'll get distorted depression talking. And its Mercury Renogade!

[EmilyJane]

Thanks EmikyJane

I don't think I can take him at his word just yet. I do agree this could be his depression disconnecting him from me. He said he wanted to disconnect from his whole family too for a while. Which is big as he speaks to his sisters every day. That would also leave him disconnected from everyone as his parents arent alive.

I kind of think he might be going through PTSD from all the tagedy and loss he has experienced. There is a whole lot of unresolved emotional trauma.

It feels like its all surfacing and getting mixed up with his feelings towards me.

I dont think he even meant for it to come out when we talked - his texts leading up to the meeting were all positive and excited.

Our deep conversation covered his mum ill-treating him, self harming (he'd never mentioned this before) and then he was far more graphic about his suicidal past thoughts. We'd only touched on in previously and this time he told me how frequently and daily it affected him ( and how suicide and depression run for generations in his family. I just listened. He was so vulnerable. And then it was my turn to get shut out.

You're right EmilyJane, it is hard not to take it personally as he was quite convincing it was me that didnt make him fall in love. When he has been more well I know he has had strong feelings. The articles really helped me see how depression can switch thinking suddenly. I'm kind of wondering if he has ever experienced a healthy, loving relationship.

I'm not ready to just 'let him go' especially when he has just opened up to me. He is totally vulnerable.

 

I'm still going to have to work out how to be there but not be the emotional crutch friend that enables him to carry on in the same way without seeking insight into his illness.

 

How do I say that in brief? I cant do a deep conversation yet, I think I'll get distorted depression talking. And its Mercury Renogade!

 

I don't think you can be there without enabling, without sacrificing your needs. I was living with the person I did this stuff with. We'd been trying for a family and were long past early relationship stuff.

 

I've tried that. Thinking of you can be around until stuff gets better you can have them back properly. It doesn't mean that he will never interpret his depression etc as not feeling the right stuff for you again. On the contrary. It makes it an acceptable thing to do.

 

I really have to recommend telling him flat out you are worried for him as he's showing signs of mental illness but that as he's rejected you as a partner it's not your job to wait around for him being supportive, but tell him you are open to dating him again after he's sorted his **** out.

 

It's actually the best chance you've got at not being stuck half being a therapist for a guy you want to be your equal partner for years hoping that it will get better.

[Thinky]

I don't think you can be there without enabling, without sacrificing your needs. I was living with the person I did this stuff with. We'd been trying for a family and were long past early relationship stuff.

 

I've tried that. Thinking of you can be around until stuff gets better you can have them back properly. It doesn't mean that he will never interpret his depression etc as not feeling the right stuff for you again. On the contrary. It makes it an acceptable thing to do.

 

I really have to recommend telling him flat out you are worried for him as he's showing signs of mental illness but that as he's rejected you as a partner it's not your job to wait around for him being supportive, but tell him you are open to dating him again after he's sorted his **** out.

 

It's actually the best chance you've got at not being stuck half being a therapist for a guy you want to be your equal partner for years hoping that it will get better.

Thanks again EmilyJane

for sharing your experiences and helping me pause for thought. Are you still in the relationship that you are talking about?

 

I cancelled meeting him today and we texted a bit earlier. He sounded very unwell. I kept it brief and said I wasnt ready to talk. I told him I was worried he had signs of mental illness - that seemed to surprise him!! I also said I thought he'd interpretted his depression as negative feelings for me. He also said that is ex wasnt a thing (what!?? he said it was a couple of days ago!) and I simply said, yes it Is a thing.

I was ending the conversation so that he could think about it all from that perspective when he asked me to text him if I was not feeling Ok. I asked him if thats what HE wanted- to text me if he wasnt feeling ok and he said yes, if I can. I'm sorry EmilyJane.

 

My intention wasnt to enable, and I think I did.

 

We agreed to wait a week to talk.

I didnt wanna talk over text about the relationship. Maybe next week I can put firmer boundaries in. I'm just seeing how this week goes. I'm going to concentrate on my well-being and live each hour as it passes.

 

And finally, a side thought today, I was thinking how could he even be thinking about the future after only knowing me for 6 months. Do people do that? I never think about permanence. I dont think its particularly healthy to be so serious that quickly. I think there's still alot of exploring to do.

 

I guess my next advice I'll be seeking here is to work out why he is even worrying about the future when the present has been good? Actually I can answer that myself, he worries about Everything.

[EmilyJane]

Thanks again EmilyJane

for sharing your experiences and helping me pause for thought. Are you still in the relationship that you are talking about?

 

I cancelled meeting him today and we texted a bit earlier. He sounded very unwell. I kept it brief and said I wasnt ready to talk. I told him I was worried he had signs of mental illness - that seemed to surprise him!! I also said I thought he'd interpretted his depression as negative feelings for me. He also said that is ex wasnt a thing (what!?? he said it was a couple of days ago!) and I simply said, yes it Is a thing.

I was ending the conversation so that he could think about it all from that perspective when he asked me to text him if I was not feeling Ok. I asked him if thats what HE wanted- to text me if he wasnt feeling ok and he said yes, if I can. I'm sorry EmilyJane.

 

My intention wasnt to enable, and I think I did.

 

We agreed to wait a week to talk.

I didnt wanna talk over text about the relationship. Maybe next week I can put firmer boundaries in. I'm just seeing how this week goes. I'm going to concentrate on my well-being and live each hour as it passes.

 

And finally, a side thought today, I was thinking how could he even be thinking about the future after only knowing me for 6 months. Do people do that? I never think about permanence. I dont think its particularly healthy to be so serious that quickly. I think there's still alot of exploring to do.

 

I guess my next advice I'll be seeking here is to work out why he is even worrying about the future when the present has been good? Actually I can answer that myself, he worries about Everything.

 

No I'm not.

 

He started self medicating for anxiety with alcohol.

 

I left hoping it would make him hit rock bottom and get proper help.

 

Rock bottom turned out to be a lot worse than anticipated.

 

I've told him I would consider dating him again when he's been sober and in therapy at least six months.

[Thinky]

I've had fears. they can be overwhelming and difficult to face. Fear of extinction. Non-existence. The fear is the identity....so facing the fear appears as psychological suicide....

 

"Nothing to fear but fear itself...." he doesn't know that... I didn't. It can be difficult to know what you fear...fear is a ghost.

 

could be he just doesn't like you. that i do not believe is the problem here lol

Thanks whatnot

for your words before. I did reply earlier but the internet swallowed it up.

We talked once quite deeply about existential angst.

I think existing in this crazy rightest society is what causes mist of the fear.

For me, nothingness is the dream

 

I've felt strangely calm today. Maybe because I cycled 20 miles!! I've felt stronger and emotionally resilient. I was even considering just going NC and sorting out my own well-being.

 

I was also thinking about the other day (splitting up day) and laughed out loud to myself when I remembered he gave me 2 presents from his trip before talking about our no future. Haha. Who would even do that?!

 

Another thing to mention is I cycled right past my old ex today just after he'd popped into my head. Weird.

[Thinky]

No I'm not.

 

He started self medicating for anxiety with alcohol.

 

I left hoping it would make him hit rock bottom and get proper help.

 

Rock bottom turned out to be a lot worse than anticipated.

 

I've told him I would consider dating him again when he's been sober and in therapy at least six months.

hi EmilyJane

That sounds like he's in a very dark place. Living in someone else's darkness is crushing.

[Thinky]

Feeling the void of emptiness today.

Not helping that I've totally lost my appetite, I have no interest or desire to eat anything.

 

3 days of not having any contact feels like ages.

Its only 5 days since I saw him (splitting up day). I just had to try and work out if it was last week or the week before. Feels like forever. Time is standing still.

 

I'm trying to worry less about his current (deeply depressed) state. I dont know if he's still managing to go to work.

 

I think I may have been giving too much to the relationship and him. If its a thing that you can be too thoughtful and caring then maybe that's me. I do tend to focus more on other people than myself. But its because I want to and I like doing little things for people I care about. I wasnt clingy, I gave him loads of space and made no demands. I thought if he wanted to see me more, he would. and he did until it felt like it was going really nicely.

He said I wasnt needy or pressuring at all when we had 'split up' talk. I dont know if its a bad thing to be too giving. I never buy expensive things, just share out stuff I've got or make and create things.

 

Isn't it almost impossible working full time in a prof job, going to the gym regularly, keeping up with friends and family AND putting energy into a relationship? Not to mention having kids on your own. And he suffers from debilitating depression on top of that. Something has to give. He said he felt overwhelmed 3 days ago, and it wasnt fair on me.

It really saddens me that he has let go of the relationship.

I'm not sure what more you could even want from a relationship. Unless its mind-blowing connection. I had that in my last relationship but everything else was against us.

 

I'm not about to make any drama with this recent ex. We said we'd talk next weekend but I don't think I can contact him first. I don't want him to just prolong splitting up and carry on speaking to me because he feels sorry for me, if he cant handle a relationship. I know we had an incredible connection through friendship and intimacy. If that's not enough for him, I'm not sure what is. He stayed in a toxic relationship for 10years and he wants out after 6months with me. Oh well.

I hadn't been happy for 3 years since my last split and this man made me happy! Life is so rubbish sometimes.

I'm trying to be grateful for the happy times without thinking too much about the past 6 months. None of it matters now if he has disconnected.

I've no idea what I did wrong.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Sad Thinky

[Thinky]

More feelings of nothing today.

 

I'm going to keep posting so I don't text him. We are not in NC officially. Admittedly, I looked at his social media today. He's been posting regularly this week, engaging with friends and interacting. Like nothing happened in his life last weekend. Sigh. I can't even put the radio on.

 

I really have no intention of contacting him this week. I think he needs space and time. I've realised this space and time is good for me too.

I think it was all getting a bit serious. He said I was attached the other day. Like its a bad thing. I thought I had healthy attachment. I think if it was unhealthy I would have been contacting him already, writing letters, phoning and trying to talk it over etc. I havent done any of that.

 

My friend told me to seriously consider what my future would be like with a boyfriend that sinks into these dark depressions. At the moment I can only think of the good times.

 

I clearly haven't 100% accepted that this is it, he won't be in my life anymore.

 

Going from good to nothing is quite a bizarre experience. It makes you wonder if you can ever trust anyone (with your heart)

 

It doesn't feel so traumatic as other past split ups I've had.

Perhaps he was right, forget about it before anyone gets really hurt.