"Everything you need to know about exes" - let's discuss

[EmilyJane]

It's a guy thing. We believe generally women are attracted to alpha males. Some guys have their own perspective of it.

 

Some thing that being muscular and ripped is being an alpha male.

 

Some thing being a douche bag to people is being an alpha male.

 

Some think it's being the center of attention and leading a big group is being an alpha male.

 

Others, like me, think it just means being able to be happy on our own (not single, but that we create our own happiness and have more to share).

 

Being a beta means... well... someone that begs and cries over a breakup. We all know that begging and pleading doesn't work, and it's a beta move. Women want a man that can handle themselves. Not a man that needs something to be happy.

 

That's generally the male perspective of what we tend to think women want.

 

So it's essentially in your view conducting yourself with integrity and self respect?

 

So with this girl you like how are you going to apply it?

 

It still sounds like potentially very misleading advice to me btw, like everyone wants different things. I don't think for example, that I like men who can't admit they have emotional vulnerabilities.

 

Women definitely don't see the world in terms of dominance.

 

I know unusually amoungst most of my female aquaintances, I don't reject guys for appearing too masculine or too good looking. Like I'm not kidding, sit there with 90% of the single women I know on Tinder and those reasons will be the primary you hear for a swipe left.

 

And that's just on superficial appearance, I can't imagine a woman that would be turned on by someone dominating his friends or something socially or being ultra macho.

[somanymistakes]

Obviously everyone wants different things and there's no universal cue to being attractive to everybody.

 

A lot of women do want a 'dominant' guy not in the sense of being abusive or a leader-of-men, but in terms of being confident, knowing what he wants, decisive, take-charge-when-needed. Along with the obvious (you can relax and go with the flow more instead of worrying about every little thing) there's also the flattery aspect - if he knows what he wants and goes for it, then when he's with you, you're reassured that he wants you, he thinks you're great. That's an ego boost.

 

With a weaker, more conflict-avoidant partner, there can be the constant fear that they don't really love you but are just afraid to say it... that they're just hiding problems from you.

 

A man who is obsessed with looking alpha is a dangerous man to marry, because those are the ones who can't handle their own failures and will lie and steal in order to maintain the appearance of a good lifestyle and themselves as provider... until they snap and kill their whole families and themselves rather than admit they lost their jobs.

 

Of course some women are definitely attracted to the guys who look alpha, who are the hottest and richest and sportiest and most dominant among their peers.

[jamili]

So it's essentially in your view conducting yourself with integrity and self respect?

 

So with this girl you like how are you going to apply it?

 

It still sounds like potentially very misleading advice to me btw, like everyone wants different things. I don't think for example, that I like men who can't admit they have emotional vulnerabilities.

 

Women definitely don't see the world in terms of dominance.

 

I know unusually amoungst most of my female aquaintances, I don't reject guys for appearing too masculine or too good looking. Like I'm not kidding, sit there with 90% of the single women I know on Tinder and those reasons will be the primary you hear for a swipe left.

 

And that's just on superficial appearance, I can't imagine a woman that would be turned on by someone dominating his friends or something socially or being ultra macho.

 

In my experience with women, being confident and having emotional and mental strength and intelligence seems to be universally attractive to them. Of course there are surely outliers.

 

I think this is why NC is effective - you are displaying confidence in yourself to walk away and be happy without them, and the enotional strength to cut them out and move on with your life. Even after a breakup an ex can be attracted to that because these traits are, typically, THAT attractive.

 

The reason why the douchey vibe on Tinder fails is because those guys arent really confident... they are actually quite insecure, which is essentially the opposite of confidence.

 

Fake confidence doesnt work... you have to really, truly be confident, and that comes only from loving yourself and trusting in your self.

 

I personally find confident women attractive too. I think confidence is just an overall positive trait to have, regardless of sex.

Edited April 19, 2017 by jamili

[Altair0770]

Well shucks, they said it better than I could.

 

Random lol - could you imagine if I wrote this thread with zero paragraphs like some people make their threads? My eyes!

Edited April 19, 2017 by Altair0770

[Sweetfish]

Doesn't feel that way. My ex is apparently going to therapy. Issue is PTSD isn't the main issue. Narcissism is. Lack of appreciation. Lack of true love. My friends, the ones that have been right about EVERYTHING, "guarantee" she will be broken up with/break up with a LOT. She's attractive, that's the only thing going for her.

 

I keep hearing people say "both partners are at fault somehow". I really don't think so in this case. Heck she even said "you know this isn't your fault" and then continued to abuse me. There was literally nothing I could do.

 

She is broken beyond repair.

 

 

Your catching on... I didnt want to say it.. but its the narcissim. It will prevent someone from obtaining TRUE love because they are the center of the earth and things must bend to them and if it doesn't, love has no value in the exit process, it holds no stock.

[Sweetfish]

So it's essentially in your view conducting yourself with integrity and self respect?

 

So with this girl you like how are you going to apply it?

 

It still sounds like potentially very misleading advice to me btw, like everyone wants different things. I don't think for example, that I like men who can't admit they have emotional vulnerabilities.

 

Women definitely don't see the world in terms of dominance.

 

I know unusually amoungst most of my female aquaintances, I don't reject guys for appearing too masculine or too good looking. Like I'm not kidding, sit there with 90% of the single women I know on Tinder and those reasons will be the primary you hear for a swipe left.

 

And that's just on superficial appearance, I can't imagine a woman that would be turned on by someone dominating his friends or something socially or being ultra macho.

 

 

Emily, I wish you can see it in the perspective of a male. You being friends with women and being in a relationship is night and day. You have not experienced the full on stages of you being the male and the love stages that transpire being with a female. You just don't get that experience..

 

Woman reject the jocks and good looking guys because they are not interested in that.. they want to see what your career is, where you live, what resources you have. They want to know what male can make them live a fulfilling life and a males respect, loyality, and kindness is just not enough and many males believe most women want that jist that because many women don't wont to be seen as shallow or gold diggers. Yes, women want respect, loyality, and etc.. actually many feel they are entitled to it, but its only requirements from off a bigger list of more requirements before they date a man.

 

But it all depends with the age brackets what is required, because women constantly change as they progress thru life and men tend to be linear because require so little from women.

 

This makes many men have to walk on eggshells or confused.

 

Most of the break-up here have one major commonality. The dumper suffered from low self esteem at the start of the relationship and eventually the dumpee did enough to build the self-esteem of the dumper and ejected the dumpee for a stronger dosage of external validation.

 

The idea of not being cling or needy is actual places many mechanisms to keep a man attractive to women. Saying women do dont like dominant men is like say men love fat chicks.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Sweetfish

[somanymistakes]

Sweetfish - you have a very strange and negative opinion of men. thankfully they are NOT all simple creatures with no brains or feelings who want only one thing.

 

You may have an idea of what some women want, but certainly not what all women want, just as you may know what some men want, but certainly not what all men want.

 

You might also get some interesting input if you talked to a bisexual woman, who has experience of both befriending and dating women as well as men...

[Sweetfish]

Sweetfish - you have a very strange and negative opinion of men. thankfully they are NOT all simple creatures with no brains or feelings who want only one thing.

 

You may have an idea of what some women want, but certainly not what all women want, just as you may know what some men want, but certainly not what all men want.

 

You might also get some interesting input if you talked to a bisexual woman, who has experience of both befriending and dating women as well as men...

 

 

 

Who said anything about men being simple creatures with no brains or feelings ANYWHERE?

 

And a bisexual female is still wired as a female.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Sweetfish

[Altair0770]

Your catching on... I didnt want to say it.. but its the narcissim. It will prevent someone from obtaining TRUE love because they are the center of the earth and things must bend to them and if it doesn't, love has no value in the exit process, it holds no stock.

 

I've done quite a lot of research on narcissistic traits and what not, and so far my ex has seemed to be a textbook narcissist.

 

I may be biased, and rose colored. It also seems that people that have been with a narcissist have been in my position - seeking revenge. Well, more so letting them suffer on their own.

 

 

First, my ex was molested as a child. Her father left her mother (not sure at what age, I think fairly young) and got engaged to some other woman before even finalizing the divorce with the mom. I'm not sure the situation, but I believe he literally ghosted her for awhile and then asked for a divorce. The mother is the only one that raised my ex. When I went to visit my ex for the first time, one thing I really noticed about her house - there isn't a space on the wall that doesn't have a picture of her. They're everywhere. There was even a mantel that had pictures. It was like a shrine to a goddess, but for my ex. I even mentioned "wow you have a lot of pictures". She replied "yeah my mom puts them everywhere".

 

So, she has daddy issue (hates her father, but acts like a princess whenever he reaches out). Has a VERY clingy mother. And has PTSD after being sexually assaulted at a young age.

 

Now after nearly 3 months of complete No contact, I'm starting to realize that even the best parts of the relationship weren't as great.

 

 

The story

 

I was the leader of an online community. One where I used my voice a LOT. I'm confident in my abilities, occasionally funny, and was able to build a very strong community in a dying game. The community succeeded far beyond my expectations, and it wasn't long until other competition was falling.

 

Despite other guys chasing her, her eyes were fixed on me. I saw her picture in the gaming voice chat and was amazed at how adorable she was, so I kind of had a crush, but thought "meh" it's all online gaming, who knows where she lives. I was never into the whole long distance or meeting someone online. Guess your opinion changes on that when you experience it (however, would never do it again because of this experience).

 

She started sending me ingame messages about how much she appreciated what I was doing. It was nice because no one really showed appreciation. She kept messaging me all the time... dammit man it hurts to type this *deep breath* all these sweet things. It made me feel very warm, and very appreciated for my efforts.

 

Eventually we added each other on Facebook, she started sending me messages and pictures of her and seemed very interested in my stuff. Liked my Facebook posts (every single one). Eventually one night I had to leave the game early to go visit my brother. She said, "but I'll miss you" and asked for my phone number. I gave it to her, and she bombarded me with text messages the entire night. My brother was annoyed, despite that he constantly would invite me to things and then talk with his friends (ones I didn't know).

 

This continued for awhile. We eventually start to get to know about each other very well, and would ask questions long into the night.

 

She very quickly asked, "if I had kids, what would their names be". I said I'd let the woman decide. She said "I'm saving this message!" and then told me the names she would have. Eventually she started making comments in group chats like, "Oh don't worry (person) you'll be invited to our wedding". This was like 2 months after meeting here, and we weren't official yet.

 

Eventually I confessed my strong feelings and said I was falling in love with her. She responded "I love you too". Then after that is when we decided to meet in person.

 

Before I continue the story, to fill in little gaps that make me think she's a narcissist. She tried to change little things about me to fit her perfect fantasy. She wanted me to stop talking about politics, abandon coffee, and never grow facial hair ( I can understand that last one. I look awful with it). She also quickly became a fellow leader of the community. She went from shy to very vocal all the time. Kind of snarky.

 

She also constantly told people she loved them. When I got a bit defensive she said, "babe there is a difference between loving someone and being in love with them". It was like she would seek out anyone in a leadership position in the community, or anyone that was fairly vocal, and try to get their attention.

 

There was also a time we were debating. Not fighting, not arguing, nothing hostile. DEBATING. She said "why are we fighting, this is the way it should be". And I just gave up because I was so damn confused.

 

We scheduled a date to meet, and planned the trip. Between scheduling it and it actually happening, I noticed she started to seem a bit... hostile. Devaluing me. Made comments like "oh if our kids are dumb it'll be his fault" and "you don't talk" when there was a conversation. It seemed minor at the time, but I thought she was just getting nervous about the meetup. I was debating asking if she wanted to hold off for a bit, but I knew I couldn't continue the relationship and progress without having met in person (felt this way for awhile).

 

One thing that stood out - whenever she was having a bad day, or felt sad, she said "just tell me you love me" and "promise me you'll bring my happily ever after".

 

Eventually we met and... well... at night she had a panic attack because I triggered her PTSD.

 

Just throwing it out there.... there isn't much worse feeling in the world than seeing a face of complete fear looking at you with tears pouring out of someone you love's eyes like you just hurt them in the worse way imaginable. It's even worse when you did absolutely nothing wrong.

 

The second day she came to pick me up, and looked like she obviously just got done crying. However, this second day she was VERY distant from me. I felt even more nervous to hold her hand. I felt very uncomfortable. At a movie we saw, she was constantly taking deep breaths. At one point we were laying in her bed. I hugged her and said "I love you". She didn't even budge. She also seemed rather annoyed with my presence of being there.

 

I was confused as hell. She started to break down and I asked what's wrong. She said she couldn't come home with me. I asked to stay there. After a long pause she said "can we just try again later".

 

I was crushed, started crying. She jumped to wipe my tears and said "oh no I hurt you" and walked away. Took me to my hotel room and cried on her shoulder some more. "I'm sorry I'm just not ready".

 

I need a smoke break before I continue writing this goddammit...

 

 

Screw the story I can't handle it sorry... I'll just continue onto the information part....

 

 

 

 

I read recently online "traits of a narcissist".

 

I'd credit the sources, but I'm just narrowing down and using multiple ones. So credit goes to all the sources out there I viewed.

 

1) Lacks empathy.

 

My ex definitely didn't have any empathy for me when she broke up with me, or when I got back from the trip to visit her. It was about her and her feelings. When she broke up with me, she feared how other people would view her. Not that she hurt me, but how they would view her. She hid her identity in the community and told the leader that took my place that she didn't want to be in a leadership role for awhile. She went to her old friends who put blame on me because I wouldn't be her friend. She truly thought I'd be her friend immediately after the breakup. She still wanted to use me as a supply, but didn't want a romantic relationship with me.

 

When I came back, and made her so happy, I hurt her when I found out she was texting her next victim. I told her that I wasn't ready one night, and said I'd be going away again, and not talking to her. She cried and felt sad. After a few days of NC, I then tried to win her back by bringing memories (I know, I'm an idiot). That didn't work. Then I took the hint and lashed out. I said I'm not willing to be a plan B, and if she doesn't love me I don't need to change. I'm not a **** boy and if everything I did wasn't enough then that's her loss. She got really hurt, and didn't want to talk to me. I apologized a few times, despite me being serious about my comments. We finally talked voice to voice and she told me the door is closed, and wants me to move on. The comment that really pissed me off was, "if you need to go away for awhile that's FINE". I told her I wasn't going to come back, will never forgive her for the way she treated me, and told her to block me on everything and I would do the same. She was hesitant, but I left letting her know this was her choice. "Goodbye forever". It seemed she never cared how I felt, never put herself in my shoes. Despite all the abuse, she never seemed to fell any empathy.

 

2) Never takes fault.

 

She had a close friend that was interested in her. When it was clear she was interested in me, the guy did the right thing and entered no contact. Due to me being a trigger (and if she is a narcissist, exhausting the need for my supply), she started to really miss this guy. She tried to reach out, and he took his time to reply.

 

She once told me, "I don't ignore my friends, except I did with him but he doesn't always respond so it's not my fault".

 

We also had a mutual friend, now just my friend (he hates her). He saw what she was doing to me, and was one of the friends that was correct about everything. That friend said "We need to talk. Let me know when you're ready". She messaged him "I'm ready for you to yell at me whenever". He then said, "I'm a bit offended you think I'd yell. Let me know when you're ready to talk".

 

She then went and hid inside a channel in the voice chat. He obviously didn't appear to talk, as she never approached him to talk. She then said, "well I did my part so it's not my fault". She then lied constantly to other people saying she reached out multiple times but they couldn't find a reasonable time in both their schedules to talk. When i told him about this, he nearly flipped his computer off the table claiming it was BS (I believe him).

 

After breaking up with me, she kept having enablers say how much it wasn't her fault that the relationship didn't work. Despite it being 100% her fault. She was worried of her image.

 

4) Large social network

 

She was very quick to add just about anyone to Facebook. People she just met in the community she would add instantly to her Facebook. Granted some people just do this, but it seemed she was very interested in making sure people were aware of her presence. Anyone that had any sort of social value should we add to Facebook. She also claims she wouldn't change a single thing about her physical appearance.

 

5) Attention seeking/conversation about them.

 

At times she would have outbursts of saying someones name all cute when they appeared and she liked them. There were times we would also try to set up the community and she was like "what do you guys think of my characters outfit" and try to get everyones attention. Whenever she was sad, she would go silent, or sound sad to get people to show her sympathy. She would also have the random outbursts of "I love you (insert name)" randomly.

 

There was also once when we had to separate the community into three groups, we needed more in a certain group. She randomly said "I'm going to be at that group" in a way to convince people to go.

 

Whenever she was the leader of a group, she would constantly make gestures to make sure people knew she was in charge.

 

6) Can't take criticism/Guilt trip

 

Whenever I brought up an issue, instead of addressing the issue, it was "I'm sorry I'm an *******!" in a way to make me feel guilty. It wasn't to ever address the issue. It was like she took the blame and it meant nothing, in a way to make me feel guilty for ever bringing up the issue. She also would make tons of excuses, going back to the "it's not my fault".

 

 

 

I know she is not happy with her real life. Any mistake she makes bothers her for hours. Someone calling her a name will bother her for days. She's also pulled the silent treatment on me.

 

I once told her I will be out camping, so my cell phone will be out of a service so I can't text her tonight and let her know I love her. Her response was simple, "I don't mind".

 

I then noticed my bars dropping, so I said "I'm about to lose service. Hope you're having a good day. love you". The next day I got back into service, and saw the unfortunate "read at X:XX". What a heart breaker.

 

 

When I came back after my 2 months of NC, she posted " a few messages to feel ok. I'm grateful". Then after I picked her out of her own hell, she started picking a new victim. Used my efforts to make her so happy. A found someone else. She used me. Took complete advantage. She always did. When she was sad about the friend that wanted to talk, I told her I'd be there for her, forever and ever. She responded "in the end you'll be the only one there for me". No gratitude. Nothing.

 

 

 

So my question is simple - is she a full blown narcissist? The entire relationship felt about one thing - completing her happily ever after. Looking back, it never felt like the relationship was for US. It was for HER.

 

 

Even if she is, will she ever reach out to me? I know I don't want that, I just wonder if it'd be good to be mentally and emotionally prepared for it.

 

She fits all the descriptions of a narcissist in my opinion, but I fear I may be just looking into that and diagnosing her with problems to make me feel temporarily better. I don't feel bad, and don't have any regrets about what I did in the relationship. If stating that you love someone and will be there for them is so harmful to a relationship, I'll be single for the rest of my life.

 

What are your opinions? (asking anyone that reads this).

Edited April 22, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language ~T

[Ronnys93]

"if you need to go away for awhile that's FINE".

 

Ugh that just burnt my soul. My ex gave me the "if you need some space that's fine" Turns my stomach inside out. I actually think that statement was more for him than myself.

 

I think you're a strong man Altair. I wouldn't have been able to go through a toxic relationship such as that and come out as strong like you are at the moment. I know it's been a long time coming.

 

Also I am considering joining the Gym next week and getting fit. I'm going to focus on myself AND better my body. Gives me time to stop thinking about him all the time.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Ronnys93

[Altair0770]

It was more like, "I need you as a normal friend, at least that's what I want. If you need to go away for awhile that's FINE". Emphasis was literally on fine. That quote right there... that ****ing quote. I'll never forgive her for that. Even if she was in the middle of giving me a blowjob.

 

 

Are we allowed to post links? Apologies mods if not. I cannot recall if that's against the rules and tried searching for them.

 

Anyways I read this.

 

 

http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2010/06/28/relationshipstrategies/20-identifiable-traits-of-a-female-narcissist/

 

 

 

She fits all 20 of those listed, besides the plastic surgery. ALL 20. I always wondered why someone who was sexually assaulted would wear sleeveless shirts and short shorts....

Edited April 20, 2017 by Altair0770

[Sweetfish]

I've done quite a lot of research on narcissistic traits and what not, and so far my ex has seemed to be a textbook narcissist.

 

I may be biased, and rose colored. It also seems that people that have been with a narcissist have been in my position - seeking revenge. Well, more so letting them suffer on their own.

 

 

First, my ex was molested as a child. Her father left her mother (not sure at what age, I think fairly young) and got engaged to some other woman before even finalizing the divorce with the mom. I'm not sure the situation, but I believe he literally ghosted her for awhile and then asked for a divorce. The mother is the only one that raised my ex. When I went to visit my ex for the first time, one thing I really noticed about her house - there isn't a space on the wall that doesn't have a picture of her. They're everywhere. There was even a mantel that had pictures. It was like a shrine to a goddess, but for my ex. I even mentioned "wow you have a lot of pictures". She replied "yeah my mom puts them everywhere".

 

So, she has daddy issue (hates her father, but acts like a princess whenever he reaches out). Has a VERY clingy mother. And has PTSD after being sexually assaulted at a young age.

 

Now after nearly 3 months of complete No contact, I'm starting to realize that even the best parts of the relationship weren't as great {SNIP} .

 

 

Have you read Sal's thread. Your situation seems ghostly similar.

shows Cluster B traits for sure.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/613204-post-i-hoped-i-d-never-have-write

Edited April 22, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
snip~T

[Altair0770]

Wow that's a long thread. I'll have to read that... in like a week since I'm going on a business trip soon.

 

I got to the part where a mystery poster showed up and the OP thinks it's his ex.

 

I'd love to read it, but if you wouldn't mind, are you able to give me a simple answer if she is or isn't? Or is that what the Cluster B situation is?

 

 

I know for fact though we didn't date the same woman. Mine was 22 (now 23). Entire time she said "I've never had a relationship". I assumed her immature behavior and red flags were because we were both new to relationships (I was 26, now 27. I know, late to the party but I had a bad experience when I lost my V card).

 

When things were going bad, before she broke up, a mutual friend talked about her first boyfriend. Yep... the first one. They never met. He saw the red flags and said no. When I asked her when she was diagnosed with PTSD (right after she broke up with me), she said "When I started talking to a crush" (this is when she was about 18 and lost a LOT of weight really quickly). I called her out on her previous "relationship" and said "then why did you go after me and him knowing you couldn't handle it?"

 

 

After the breakup and me going NC for 2 months, a mutual friend said that my ex knows she needs to stay away from a relationship for a long time. My ex even said, when I said I'd wait for her as she goes through therapy, "how long you going to wait? 2, 3 years?"

 

2 months... 2 months after breaking up with me she starts flirting with someone else. I guess, if she is narc, she just badly needs that supply to keep going...

 

 

I have since disappeared from her life. Blocked her on all social media as this thread I wrote suggests. I don't have her blocked on my phone, but I've since deleted her number and honestly do not remember it. I've removed all mutual friends from being able to contact me in any way, shape, or form besides 1 person. However, I have my Facebook set to private, and have it set to not allowing that mutual friend to view my stuff and cannot see her posts.

 

I would remove her, but it is someone I do plan on catching up with when I have healed and moved on.

 

My main concern at the moment, and maybe it's not something I should think about, but... do they always come back to haunt you again? I fell so in love with this girl. Truly did think I was going to marry her. I was going to buy her a promise ring when she came down to visit me (I was going there for 2 days, she would fly with me here for 7 days. Never flew back with me). I guess maybe I was just a victim. A tool. I pulled her so far out of her own created hell... and she preferred someone else.

 

I'm not hoping for a Narc come to back. I just want to prepare myself. I don't want to be in the middle of doing something I enjoy and then have a dark cloud destroy my mind because I see a text from her or something.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Altair0770

[Sweetfish]

Wow that's a long thread. I'll have to read that... in like a week since I'm going on a business trip soon.

 

I got to the part where a mystery poster showed up and the OP thinks it's his ex.

 

I'd love to read it, but if you wouldn't mind, are you able to give me a simple answer if she is or isn't? Or is that what the Cluster B situation is?

 

 

I know for fact though we didn't date the same woman. Mine was 22 (now 23). Entire time she said "I've never had a relationship". I assumed her immature behavior and red flags were because we were both new to relationships (I was 26, now 27. I know, late to the party but I had a bad experience when I lost my V card).

 

When things were going bad, before she broke up, a mutual friend talked about her first boyfriend. Yep... the first one. They never met. He saw the red flags and said no. When I asked her when she was diagnosed with PTSD (right after she broke up with me), she said "When I started talking to a crush" (this is when she was about 18 and lost a LOT of weight really quickly). I called her out on her previous "relationship" and said "then why did you go after me and him knowing you couldn't handle it?"

 

 

After the breakup and me going NC for 2 months, a mutual friend said that my ex knows she needs to stay away from a relationship for a long time. My ex even said, when I said I'd wait for her as she goes through therapy, "how long you going to wait? 2, 3 years?"

 

2 months... 2 months after breaking up with me she starts flirting with someone else. I guess, if she is narc, she just badly needs that supply to keep going...

 

 

I have since disappeared from her life. Blocked her on all social media as this thread I wrote suggests. I don't have her blocked on my phone, but I've since deleted her number and honestly do not remember it. I've removed all mutual friends from being able to contact me in any way, shape, or form besides 1 person. However, I have my Facebook set to private, and have it set to not allowing that mutual friend to view my stuff and cannot see her posts.

 

I would remove her, but it is someone I do plan on catching up with when I have healed and moved on.

 

My main concern at the moment, and maybe it's not something I should think about, but... do they always come back to haunt you again? I fell so in love with this girl. Truly did think I was going to marry her. I was going to buy her a promise ring when she came down to visit me (I was going there for 2 days, she would fly with me here for 7 days. Never flew back with me). I guess maybe I was just a victim. A tool. I pulled her so far out of her own created hell... and she preferred someone else.

 

I'm not hoping for a Narc come to back. I just want to prepare myself. I don't want to be in the middle of doing something I enjoy and then have a dark cloud destroy my mind because I see a text from her or something.

 

 

Your Ex may have something that is not familiar to many people (so many people rejected it) and its a narcissism that society is not familiar called covert narcissism, if you have read "No more Mr. nice guy" it follows the same essences (Empathy is a big role player to narcissism) nice guys are not necessarily narcissist to the point that its destructive as nice guys may empathize.. they just fear being rejected for being their true self and feminism is a HUGE role player in this) Covert narcissism is a personal defense to hide a deep emotional pain usually created in childhood and submerging the complete self and create a ego that has the power to manipulate, remove and add people in your life if others crack or distort that new ego (an image they created over years) to prevent any anxiety or pain that might resurface and they resurface in deep relationship and that is why these Personal defenses are consider high functioning because other people will think your crazy when you tell them how the relationship dissolved ...

 

most people initially in the relationship can't not see it because the person uses you (the boyfriend) as an extension of them selves. You are now part of her, you are not an individual anymore.. (that's why nice guys start to LOSE their selves in the relationship because they are mirroring the covert narcissist and sometimes they mirror you. Lots of gas-lighting is involved and its all subconscious. So in a way you kind of reap the rewards of their own self gratification... until you fracture "the imagine" The person does not show their true self and constructs a perfect imagine and/or projection to completely hide the broken self. The situation your ex grew-up in would create the foundation for a covert narc and the PTSD is simply I believe just an Add'on to a greater issue. A parent that rejects a child and a parent that coddles a child can create a overt or covert narcissist.

 

its long and complicated but if your interested I have material I can PM you.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Sweetfish

[SevenCity]

Emily, I wish you can see it in the perspective of a male. You being friends with women and being in a relationship is night and day. You have not experienced the full on stages of you being the male and the love stages that transpire being with a female. You just don't get that experience..

 

Woman reject the jocks and good looking guys because they are not interested in that.. they want to see what your career is, where you live, what resources you have. They want to know what male can make them live a fulfilling life and a males respect, loyality, and kindness is just not enough and many males believe most women want that jist that because many women don't wont to be seen as shallow or gold diggers. Yes, women want respect, loyality, and etc.. actually many feel they are entitled to it, but its only requirements from off a bigger list of more requirements before they date a man.

 

But it all depends with the age brackets what is required, because women constantly change as they progress thru life and men tend to be linear because require so little from women.

 

This makes many men have to walk on eggshells or confused.

 

Most of the break-up here have one major commonality. The dumper suffered from low self esteem at the start of the relationship and eventually the dumpee did enough to build the self-esteem of the dumper and ejected the dumpee for a stronger dosage of external validation.

The idea of not being cling or needy is actual places many mechanisms to keep a man attractive to women. Saying women do dont like dominant men is like say men love fat chicks.

 

 

Holy crap that really hit home for me. It describes my last RL perfectly.

 

My ex had a very low self esteem and I did my best to raise it. In the end she had no more use for me and blamed me for her insecurities.

 

As most women have some form of insecurity (and usually make it known pretty early on) what's the correct way to handle it?

 

Example, one girl I'm currently dating has large labia. I love them (I always have). I tell her how much I like them and within a few weeks she's gotten to look at them like an asset (after not believing me initially).

 

From your post it seems that I should do less to mitigate her insecurities.

 

How do you handle them?

[Sweetfish]

Holy crap that really hit home for me. It describes my last RL perfectly.

 

My ex had a very low self esteem and I did my best to raise it. In the end she had no more use for me and blamed me for her insecurities.

 

As most women have some form of insecurity (and usually make it known pretty early on) what's the correct way to handle it?

 

Example, one girl I'm currently dating has large labia. I love them (I always have). I tell her how much I like them and within a few weeks she's gotten to look at them like an asset (after not believing me initially).

 

From your post it seems that I should do less to mitigate her insecurities.

 

How do you handle them?

 

 

Avoid women with low self esteem and correct your own low self esteem (self-worth) or build-up your current self esteem. Many men get attached to women with low self esteem because it gives them a purpose or "project" they can focus on... it takes the load off some men "nice guys" into figuring out what is their own purpose in the relationship. Being a superman is the role they take on and at the same time you lose clark kent and next thing you know your not hanging around your friend or loving your hobbies anymore. The question is do you want to be loved as superman or clark kent?

[SevenCity]

Avoid women with low self esteem and correct your own low self esteem (self-worth) or build-up your current self esteem. Many men get attached to women with low self esteem because it gives them a purpose or "project" they can focus on... it takes the load off some men "nice guys" into figuring out what is their own purpose in the relationship. Being a superman is the role they take on and at the same time you lose clark kent and next thing you know your not hanging around your friend or loving your hobbies anymore. The question is do you want to be loved as superman or clark kent?

 

I definitely avoid low self esteem now but ALL women have some sort of insecurity. I don't have a low self esteem at all (though it took a hit after my last breakup it's back to normal now).

 

That's a reality unfortunately.

[MeadowFlower]

Avoid women with low self esteem and correct your own low self esteem (self-worth) or build-up your current self esteem.

Hopefully all men don't think like you.

[Sweetfish]

I definitely avoid low self esteem now but ALL women have some sort of insecurity. I don't have a low self esteem at all (though it took a hit after my last breakup it's back to normal now).

 

That's a reality unfortunately.

 

No.. but self-esteem and self awareness is an on growning development.

[Sweetfish]

Hopefully all men don't think like you.

 

I wish more men would and many of these women who play these games would be kicked to the curb

Edited April 20, 2017 by Sweetfish

[Altair0770]

Your Ex may have something that is not familiar to many people (so many people rejected it) and its a narcissism that society is not familiar called covert narcissism, if you have read "No more Mr. nice guy" it follows the same essences (Empathy is a big role player to narcissism) nice guys are not necessarily narcissist to the point that its destructive as nice guys may empathize.. they just fear being rejected for being their true self and feminism is a HUGE role player in this) Covert narcissism is a personal defense to hide a deep emotional pain usually created in childhood and submerging the complete self and create a ego that has the power to manipulate, remove and add people in your life if others crack or distort that new ego (an image they created over years) to prevent any anxiety or pain that might resurface and they resurface in deep relationship and that is why these Personal defenses are consider high functioning because other people will think your crazy when you tell them how the relationship dissolved ...

 

most people initially in the relationship can't not see it because the person uses you (the boyfriend) as an extension of them selves. You are now part of her, you are not an individual anymore.. (that's why nice guys start to LOSE their selves in the relationship because they are mirroring the covert narcissist and sometimes they mirror you. Lots of gas-lighting is involved and its all subconscious. So in a way you kind of reap the rewards of their own self gratification... until you fracture "the imagine" The person does not show their true self and constructs a perfect imagine and/or projection to completely hide the broken self. The situation your ex grew-up in would create the foundation for a covert narc and the PTSD is simply I believe just an Add'on to a greater issue. A parent that rejects a child and a parent that coddles a child can create a overt or covert narcissist.

 

its long and complicated but if your interested I have material I can PM you.

 

 

Would love to read it!

[Bromeo]

I wish more men would and many of these women who play these games would be kicked to the curb

 

After having had games played with me for months, I have to agree with sweet. Games suck, and the exs who play them suck worse.

[MeadowFlower]

I wish more men would and many of these women who play these games would be kicked to the curb

I wasn't referring to games, I was referring to avoiding women with low self esteem.

[Altair0770]

So to kind of give reasons why I think my ex is a narcissist...

 

 

She started off love bombing me. We moved VERY fast. She always took the steps forward. The only step I took forward was "I love you". After that it was always her pushing the relationship to the next level. She added me to Facebook (looked me up well before adding me), wanted my phone number, and use to always initiate contact first nearly every morning (sometimes before I woke up). Everyday it was texting, texting, texting until we did our activities later in the day through the game. Then it was texting all night until we both agreed to get some sleep. It was her idea to start asking questions every night to get to know each other better.

 

Eventually, when we started getting more serious (all online), she started also doing some harsh jokes. "If we have dumb kids, it'll be because of him" in a group setting and "You go away. Don't talk" in a group setting. I also noticed her starting to get more and more anxious of our meetup. Once posting "24 hours..." in which that was the time I'd be coming to visit her.

 

When we met in person everything seemed fine. She would make fun of one person she hates, but if I did the same "That's not nice..."

 

A bit of background (sorry to jump around). I was the leader of a large community. It felt like she singled me out because I was the leader. After all, she could have had any of these guys groveling at her feet trying to get to know her. She was chased by a lot of men, but came after me.

 

She always portrayed herself as innocent. Her voice is like if you'd imagine a cartoon female bunny or something. She was always nice and sweet to people. Always welcomed people enthusiastically.

 

Eventually she became a leader, and started showing signs of what I was doing. Being authorative, and knowing what I wanted in the community. Started to insert herself into roles she made up, and would try to control me at times through my power.

 

Flash forward to when we meet. It was a nice day at the start, but night time hit, and we went on our walk. Boom, panic attack back at the hotel (I can understand why it triggered her PTSD, but she NEVER told me she had PTSD). I try to comfort her. I ask her questions on how to handle the situation. Asked if it was okay if I was near her, or if she needed a glass of water. I complied with her wishes.

 

Eventually she broke down on her knees and said "I'm sorry I can't go back with you (fly back to my place). I told her "that's okay, I'm not going to force you to do anything you don't want to do". She responded "everyones going to hate me". To me, at the moment it didn't mean much. I just denied that people would hate her. Looking back, it strikes as a red flag because why is she so worried about what people are going to think of her, and not what I think of her? Maybe I'm looking into it too much.

 

I walked her to her car, and she drove off. I was clueless, but we texted when she got home and said she needed her mother (her mother has absolutely NO idea she has PTSD, nor was molested).

 

The next day she came to my hotel and looked as if she just got done balling her eyes out. I openned the door. She hung her head and came and gave me a soft hug.

 

We went out for the day, and she seemed very distant. We were going to go see a movie, so we hung out at her house for a bit. I was laying there, and asking her questions but she seemed very annoyed. Something I've never experienced from her before. I felt nervous even talking to her. She started to play the game we play despite both of us agreeing that we'd take a break and enjoy each other. She started to play other games on her phone and what not.

 

At one point I thought to myself I'd like to get closer. After all, I was going to have our first kiss but she got triggered on our walk. I hugged her and said, "I love you" while she was on her laptop. She didn't even flinch. Nothing. It's like nothing happened to her. Just ignored me completely. Awkward...

 

 

Eventually we go and see our movie. The entire time on my trip I paid for everything. NOT ONCE did she say, "thank you" for my expenses. But I didn't really care, was just happy to be with her. There were other times online in the game I'd give her money (in game money) and items that were expensive. She just took it and didn't say anything.

 

During the movie, she kept taking heavy breaths. Arms crossed the entire film, and kept trying to wiggle around and get comfortable - basically a ton of anxiety.

 

The movie ends, and we get back to her house and lay in her bed while she once again goes on her phone and laptop. I try to inch myself closer. She puts down her phone and plays with the ring on her finger. I remembered I was going to get her a promise ring when we flew back. She started crying again. I asked, "what's wrong" as she got up and went to the AC. She then said "I can't go back with you". I asked to stay there for a bit longer. She then slowly said "can we just try again later".

 

I was crushed, so I started to cry. Tried to hide it, but couldn't. Eventually she got upset that I was crying, but it seemed like she was upset more that she made someone upset rather than it was me being upset.

 

She drove me back to my hotel and we cried a bit more. Eventually she was completely done crying, but I couldn't stop. She looked perfectly fine that I was breaking down and upset.

 

She leaves, I cry myself to sleep. She picks me up at 8am. My flight was at 12:40. While we exit the hotel she starts taking the breakfast stuff to go, despite that it was against the rules. She drops me off at the airport at around 9am. We hug. Said we loved each other. I was fighting tears, she looked happy to get rid of me. She immediately went to the store and did grocery shopping while I was still waiting for my flight to take me home.

 

I get home, and for awhile she seemed apologetic. But then after a few days the hostility increases to a maximum.

 

I then confronted her through text that I was upset at the way she started treating me. Her response was "I'm sorry I'm an *******". That made me feel guilty. It put the blame on me for making the comments and ignored her behavior.

 

Eventually she took a trip to her hometown with her family. This is when things got TERRIBLE. She started ignoring me when I would say "good morning". I once was running out of service because I was going camping for a night. I texted her that I couldn't text her tonight. Her response was, "that's fine". While my bars were lowering, I sent her a text saying that I loved her, and hope she was enjoying her trip. She never got back to me about that.

 

There were many times she would completely ignore me. We went a few days without talking - our first yet.

 

After the trip things hit rock bottom. She still portrayed herself in the community as a princess. Despite knowing I was getting depressed, she started to heavily devalue me, run away from me, and start treating me like crap but would always say one little thing to get me back into talking with her or making me apologize when she was at fault.

 

Made comments like "I like people with blue eyes" (both ours are brown).

"I prefer everything online"

"You were really quiet. I knew people couldn't hear you. It was frustrating"

 

Eventually a mutual friend saw what she was doing, and was going to call her out on the narcissism (him and my other buddy that have been right about predicting everything both claim she's a narcissists).

 

I knew something was wrong in the relationship, so I searched for as many friends as possible to talk to, to get answers. Some made predictions, and kept bringing up disorders (the only thing she told me was she had bad anxiety).

 

Meanwhile she wouldn't tell me ANYTHING that was wrong. Only just stopped saying things. Stopped saying she loved me. Stopped calling me pet names (which she initially loved). Stopped every single romantic aspect of the relationship.

 

Everytime I asked what was wrong, it was simple, "I don't want to talk about it".

 

The entire time she belittled me on little things, sometimes even publically. I'm a funny guy. I made jokes, everyone laughed, and she would simply say "pfft" or "huh, I guess that was funny" but seemed disappointed in herself for finding it funny. I once arrived and she said "oh, hello you".

 

In the end, it felt like she was trying to friendzone me while still in a relationship.

 

The worst part was when I was really depressed, so I wanted to get a cat. I made a comment about the depression and she said, "Sigh... stop being depressed and get a cat". I wanted so badly to reply with "stop having PTSD" it hurt that bad to hear her say that.

 

One time, before her trip and all and about a week after I got back, I said "I hope you know I love you and miss you". Her response was "I know it's not intended, but you are putting a LOT of pressure on me". Who does that to someone they still say they love.

 

Eventually when I called her out on how terrible she was treating me, and I gave her the ultimatum of go to therapy or I leave completely, she started claiming how she is a monster, and how much she hates herself. That is when she started friendzoning me while still in a relationship.

 

Eventually she was about to start therapy. Broke up with me the day before. I demanded the names, yada yada yada. She gave them to me and BEGGED me to be her friend.

 

When I started NC, she didn't once send me a breadcrumb. When I broke NC, she replied instantly and put me back on the pedestal. Said I was so sweet, had a heart of gold, and thanked me so much for talking to her. During the NC phase, she was falling apart, ended up being way worse than I was. Was making comments like, "I miss my best friends. One pretends I don't even exist" and basically, how my friend puts it, calls for attention.

 

When I came back, and rejoined in the community she was talking to me non-stop, saying very nice things to me. "I'm so happy you're here" type of things. It felt like we were progressing towards reconciliation.

 

Eventually, she stopped seeming interested in texting me. I started getting a 6th sense that she was talking to someone else. She changed her Facebook picture to a really beautiful picture of herself. She started posting random things like a heart. It just seemed weird.

 

A friend confirmed she was talking to someone else. And that is when I told her I wasn't ready. I left for 2 days, made one final ditch effort. Fell on deaf ears. Then I got angry, sent her a few texts that said I'm not going to change, and if she wants someone else over someone that cared for her so much then that's her choice. She got so scared by the texts she wanted to puke (apparently). She was mad at me the next few days. Then we talked voice to voice.

 

I told her I wasn't going to chase her. "Nor do I want you to". Does that mean the doors closed? "yeah, I believe so". So you want me to move on "Yeah... I just need you as a normal friend, or at least that's what I want. If you need to go away for awhile that's FINE". I said no, block me from everything. She was very hesitant. I eventually pressured her into doing so. Goodbye forever. And so far, forever has been 2.5+ months and counting.

 

 

Now here are some things I've noticed about her in the relationship.

 

1) Whenever something was her fault. 100% her fault, she would shift the blame on the other person. "I tried to reach out to this person I hurt, but he took forever to respond so it's not entirely my fault".

 

2) She lied. ALL THE TIME. Even when I came back and we were on "good" terms. Lied that she never had a relationship before us. Lied that she wasn't hanging in a big group of people. Fabricated stories to make it seem like she wasn't at fault for anything. One example being the mutual friend was seeing what she was doing to me, and said, "we need to talk. Let me know when you are ready". She initially reached out with "You can yell at me whenever". He said, "I'm offended you'd think I'd yell. Let me know when you want to talk". She got scared from that. She then broke up with me. Waited in a chat room for him, never asking him to talk. She didn't do anything but wait. Eventually he never showed up so she left. She then lied to everyone else saying she contacted him a bunch of times but he ignored her, and said it's not her fault because he never came down to have their talk. Despite many people saying she needs to reach out to HIM. She fabricated the story to make him look like an ass.

 

3) When she broke up, she never felt any empathy for me. Only herself because I wasn't her friend and I went NC. She went to enablers that made excuses for her. One woman even said "it's not her fault, she tried to be friends. It's not her responsibility to make him happy. He should be her friend! He's being an *******". This in turn made it so one of our mutual friends, a sweet woman, took a lot of hate and was neglected by her former friends.

 

4) She seemed a lot more interested in her image among the community rather than hurting me.

 

5) when I came back I noticed she was a HUGE attention seeker. Constantly hogging the chat channels, trying to be her innocent, glamorous self. Sometimes even interrupted events in the game because she was concerned about people paying attention to her.

 

6) when I came back, she let EVERYONE know I was back in the picture, in a way to reveal any bad image they may have put on her.

 

7) She started using another friend to watch me, constantly, and get information about me.

 

8) She constantly rivaled other leaders in the community, trying to prove how much better she was

 

9) She constantly was making "cute noises" and trying to look adorable to everyone

 

10) She told me she knew she needed a long time before another relationship (2-3 years). She found someone after 2 months. My guess is another source of supply, and is likely love bombing him.

 

11) When she "apologized", it always seemed condescending

 

12) She was extremely proud of her physical image. "I wouldn't change a thing".

 

13) She would randomly post pictures of herself where they didn't belong, to make sure people knew she was attractive. Pictures that were of her being attractive. She wasn't afraid to show off her physical image, despite most people that spend their entire time online being a bit cautious to do so.

 

14) She always tried to be the most charming person in the entire community. She tried to make friends with everyone, adding them on Facebook without even getting to know them. Stalking them on Facebook the second they meet.

 

15) There were times she would do something I didn't like, and she would say "you're welcome". And times I would do something she didn't like. "Stop doing that, it's annoying".

 

16) Whenever someone had an issue, she didn't seem to have any empathy, and would sometimes complain about how annoying it is. "I got over it, they should too".

 

17) Whenever backed into a corner (metaphorically), she would say, "ok" in a soft voice or apologize profusely. But never really meant sorry for her actions and she believed them to be justified.

 

18) Whenever she assumed other men were jealous of our relationship, she would just to that conclusion. She had no problems letting me or others know they were jealous of me because I had her.

 

19) She would cry a LOT to get what she wants. Making her enablers make excuses for her, and shame the victim of her behavior.

 

 

 

So my questions...

 

Is this the behavior of a narcissist? Ultimately, the relationship felt like it was for her, and not US. It was constantly about how I could bring her her happily ever after. Or is this just immaturity?

 

I constantly hear about NS (Narcissist supply). After dumping me, she said she was sad because "losing people sucks". She dumped me though?

Was she just sad and miserable because she lost a source of supply?

 

Will she ever pop back into my life? I hear that narcissists don't let go of supply. They allow the silent treatment and then go back to old sources.

If her new relationship doesn't work out, will she be back to haunt me or look for something new?

 

I don't ask that last question because I want her back. She did her damage, and I don't see her being the person I fell in love with (false self). I also don't think she has any interest in a romantic relationship with me, because I became a trigger. The second I triggered her, if she is a narcissist, my supply became tarnished.

 

Should I feel guilty for calling her names on Twitter after blocking her? (I made the mistake of not having my account on private yet).

 

If she is a narcissist, I want to avoid her at all costs. But I also do want to know the answers. I want to stop feeling like I did something wrong, despite even her saying "you did nothing wrong, it just wasn't meant to be".

Edited April 22, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language ~T

[Ronnys93]

My ex reached out to me today. Was 4 days without a response and he basically wanted to reach out to catch up. He let me know that his counselor sucks and and isn't really being attentive to him. I politely told him to man up and speak up about it, but he replied saying that he only had a few more weeks since it is a therapist that is counseling at his university. I didn't really feed into it much just said that it was awful people usually let him down and left him hanging for the rest of the night. Even though I'm more so doing limited contact than no contact, I feel much more in control than when I was full on trying to be friends. I take my sweet time to respond, and I feel like I dictate whether he is worthy of more conversation or not. I also don't feel set back by his messages. Today was a good day.

 

Edit: @Altair My friend was dating a narcissist and yes they usually do come back. In her case he would "move on" and date other people and then come back trying to get back into her life. She doesn't allow that obviously but he still tries. So do be aware she can definitely try.

 

Also during my own therapy session today, I talked to my therapist about my ex and she said it sounds like he may be showing traits of a narcissist LOL. (of course she'd never know without actually talking to him) Good lord, Altair.

Edited April 21, 2017 by Ronnys93