ladybug1984 Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 I won't go into all of the backstory, but there is a guy I'll call E. who I have known since I was a teenager (we are now both in our 40's), both of us thought we were "in love" back then. Fast forward 30 years later he has an on-again off again thing with his ex-wife and somehow or another I keep getting back in his circle when they are "off" again. I somehow feel obligated to him and truly do care about him as we had each other when we were 16 and nothing else. I think he is toxic for many reasons, but yet I keep talking to him. At any rate, this last go-around. Had not seen him for several years. He would text general greetings on holidays and what not, so it wasn't like there had been zero communication during the years. I agreed to meet him last month when he was coming through my state but told him it was 'friends only' and I set the meeting place as somewhere public. I thought it would be good to catch up with him in person and more than a "hi" because I genuinely cared what was going on with him, knowing he had been through some rough times recently. So we met up, he suggested a walk at the lake since it was a nice day out. I agreed and we left the restaurant. I thought nothing of it since he had been nice and things had been going well. We get to the lake and it starts raining after a bit so we get back in the car. We had been there an hour by this point and all was going well with the conversation. Out of the blue, he tells me he still has all of these feelings, yet I also know I had said 'friends only' for several reasons which I won't go into. I am BLOWN away when he tells me to lift my shirt so he can look. I tell him no and he says we aren't leaving until I do. Remember, we are in our 40's. NOt kids! It seemed sooo juvenile to me. He says it again and I refuse. He says I get more chance and then it's three strikes, to which I refuse. He refuses to talk anymore and just sits there. I pick up my phone and say I am going to call somebody to come and get me. He takes my phone. Then starts patting me on the chest saying to pull my shirt up, it's too low cut and that I have put him in a bad, bad position ('you shouldn't have worn something that was low cut, you knew you wanted to more than friends or you wouldn't have worn my favorite color - stuff that didn't make sense. It wasn't low cut, it was a v-neck t, and it was navy blue cotton fruit-of-the-loom.......not exactly seductive). He "pats" about five times which really is him trying to feel me. After we sit there for 15 min with me just sitting motionless, he is like f*** it, we're leaving. And he takes me back, opens my door, and says "take care" and stares ahead until I get out. I am left speechless and get out of there as fast as I can. I want to be his friend, I truly care about his life and what happens to him, but I cannot tolerate THIS -w hatever THIS is. WHY???? What does all of this mean?? I KNOW it's not normal, but what is it?!? Is it even possible to be friends with someone like this? So hard when I've known him all my life but yet the behavior just to me is intolerable. I won't get into my own relationship issues...........I seem to attract things like this ((.
Larryville Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 Is this "normal" behavior I’m kinda perplexed that you would be even asking this, seriously? I somehow feel obligated to him and truly do care about him as we had each other when we were 16 and nothing else. I am BLOWN away when he tells me to lift my shirt so he can look. WHY???? What does all of this mean?? It means he is a nutcase and has issues, avoid unless you are addicted to crazy or drama. 4
Telemachus Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 The title to your posting asks whether this is normal behavior, and near the end of the posting you answer your own question - saying that you know it's not normal. You also say it's intolerable, yet you consider having or continuing some kind of relationship with him. He seems to be either totally self-centered or he intended to get off on shocking you, also very selfish. An occasional holiday greeting text message from him isn't worth much: they take him 10 seconds and cost nothing. He doesn't value you or your trust. Honestly, I don't see a question here - you made a number of bad choices that day, first among them was meeting him in person. Make better choices. 1
Redhead14 Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 What's so hard to understand? He's h*rny and doesn't respect you as a woman or a friend. And, no it's not possible to be friends with a guy like this because he's not going to be a friend. He's a guy who wants what he wants, when he wants it and pushes boundaries. You guys are 40 years old and he's acting like a brazen, bully teenage guy with raging hormones. Why in the world would you even consider being friends with this guy now? Frankly, when he kept pushing you to do that, I would have gotten out of the car and called 911. I don't care if there was a chance that you'd get hit by lightning. 2
somanymistakes Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 you made a number of bad choices that day wow, no, don't blame HER for this, that's exactly what HE was doing. It's not unusual for someone to still have feelings for someone they knew as a teenager. It't not even that unusual for someone to get their hopes up despite you saying friends-only. But the way he was behaving was way, way, way out of line and borderline assault. This man is indicating to you that if you are in his presence he will take it as an invitation to sexual assault. Perhaps he was intoxicated somehow and not in his right mind, perhaps he needs medical or psychological help. But it is not YOUR responsibility to provide that. If you do still feel responsible for this guy because of your past and you cannot just cut him off without a word and feel okay with yourself, write him a short note/email explaining that his behavior was (beyond) inappropriate and that you can't communicate with him again unless he gets help. Even if he swears he is getting help, don't meet with him in person again. 5
Chilli Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 That's what l was thinking , might've been on something. l take it he's not normally like that or you would've been out of this 20yrs ago.
Author ladybug1984 Posted April 3, 2017 Author Posted April 3, 2017 He does seem to have a lot of drama. And NO, I definitely don't want any of that (( It means he is a nutcase and has issues, avoid unless you are addicted to crazy or drama.
Author ladybug1984 Posted April 3, 2017 Author Posted April 3, 2017 Yes, I did answer my own question, hoping to get validation that my thoughts weren't off base. I don't really have a lot of confidence in my ability to be a good judge of people or character these days, which is another whole story. I swear I thought I was doing something nice by giving him an outlet to share more about his hardships when he said he needed a listening ear. Poor choice, I can see that now, but my heart was in the right place when he said he needed someone just to listen. Lesson learned. The title to your posting asks whether this is normal behavior, and near the end of the posting you answer your own question - saying that you know it's not normal. You also say it's intolerable, yet you consider having or continuing some kind of relationship with him. He seems to be either totally self-centered or he intended to get off on shocking you, also very selfish. An occasional holiday greeting text message from him isn't worth much: they take him 10 seconds and cost nothing. He doesn't value you or your trust. Honestly, I don't see a question here - you made a number of bad choices that day, first among them was meeting him in person. Make better choices.
Author ladybug1984 Posted April 3, 2017 Author Posted April 3, 2017 As crazy as it sounds, Redhead, he helped me through a really rough patch many years ago and I guess I feel somewhat obligated because of that. He has done stuff like this before, but not to this degree. When we were teenagers he would pressure me into stuff and say we would break up if I didn't do XYZ, but I gave him a pass for that later because, well, we were teenagers. Weren't we all immature back then? Now, I don't understand why an adult can act that way. And why I LET him. It makes no sense, I know. Even to ME it makes no sense. Which is why I feel so bad about letting myself get in that position. What's so hard to understand? He's h*rny and doesn't respect you as a woman or a friend. And, no it's not possible to be friends with a guy like this because he's not going to be a friend. He's a guy who wants what he wants, when he wants it and pushes boundaries. You guys are 40 years old and he's acting like a brazen, bully teenage guy with raging hormones. Why in the world would you even consider being friends with this guy now? Frankly, when he kept pushing you to do that, I would have gotten out of the car and called 911. I don't care if there was a chance that you'd get hit by lightning.
Author ladybug1984 Posted April 3, 2017 Author Posted April 3, 2017 I sincerely believe he was not on anything. He has a history with this kind of thing, though not to this degree. When we were dating a long, long time ago he would want to take inappropriate pictures of me and I refused. He wouldn't talk to me for WEEKS after that. But again, I chalk that up to being young and stupid. He does have a track record. I keep thinking after so many years and just MATURITY, that he has gotten past all of that. He asked me to meet him as a listening ear for some issues he is having, and he also talked me through a few things I was going through. I thought we were good and did something nice for each other after those conversations, and then BOOM. As soon as I wouldn't do something again, I am made to be the bad guy when just moments earlier, I was the best thing that could have ever happened meeting him that day. Fact is, he touched me three times through my shirt without my permission, disguised as taunting and teasing, but my feelings were hurt and my eyes were tearing up, and he had to see the change in my demeanor. And of course I told him I wasn't going to pull my shirt up, so he also heard my words. yet he gave me three opportunities to "Prove yourself" (says he was not going to touch, to trust him) before he completely shut down on me. Says if I didn't, then all of those years meant nothing, I truly did not trust him. After ALL of the times I listened to him, helped him with his troubles, and was a good friend - THIS is how I am repaid??? I like the letter idea. As much as I hate what he did, he is part of my past and something in me wants to see him better. I wish I didn't have this mental hang-up with him, but I do. At least with a letter, I could feel like I didn't leave him dazed, confused, and hurt, like he did me. At least I could hold my head up high that way. wow, no, don't blame HER for this, that's exactly what HE was doing. It's not unusual for someone to still have feelings for someone they knew as a teenager. It't not even that unusual for someone to get their hopes up despite you saying friends-only. But the way he was behaving was way, way, way out of line and borderline assault. This man is indicating to you that if you are in his presence he will take it as an invitation to sexual assault. Perhaps he was intoxicated somehow and not in his right mind, perhaps he needs medical or psychological help. But it is not YOUR responsibility to provide that. If you do still feel responsible for this guy because of your past and you cannot just cut him off without a word and feel okay with yourself, write him a short note/email explaining that his behavior was (beyond) inappropriate and that you can't communicate with him again unless he gets help. Even if he swears he is getting help, don't meet with him in person again.
Miss Spider Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 I won't go into all of the backstory, but there is a guy I'll call E. who I have known since I was a teenager (we are now both in our 40's), both of us thought we were "in love" back then. Fast forward 30 years later he has an on-again off again thing with his ex-wife and somehow or another I keep getting back in his circle when they are "off" again. I somehow feel obligated to him and truly do care about him as we had each other when we were 16 and nothing else. I think he is toxic for many reasons, but yet I keep talking to him. At any rate, this last go-around. Had not seen him for several years. He would text general greetings on holidays and what not, so it wasn't like there had been zero communication during the years. I agreed to meet him last month when he was coming through my state but told him it was 'friends only' and I set the meeting place as somewhere public. I thought it would be good to catch up with him in person and more than a "hi" because I genuinely cared what was going on with him, knowing he had been through some rough times recently. So we met up, he suggested a walk at the lake since it was a nice day out. I agreed and we left the restaurant. I thought nothing of it since he had been nice and things had been going well. We get to the lake and it starts raining after a bit so we get back in the car. We had been there an hour by this point and all was going well with the conversation. Out of the blue, he tells me he still has all of these feelings, yet I also know I had said 'friends only' for several reasons which I won't go into. I am BLOWN away when he tells me to lift my shirt so he can look. I tell him no and he says we aren't leaving until I do. Remember, we are in our 40's. NOt kids! It seemed sooo juvenile to me. He says it again and I refuse. He says I get more chance and then it's three strikes, to which I refuse. He refuses to talk anymore and just sits there. I pick up my phone and say I am going to call somebody to come and get me. He takes my phone. Then starts patting me on the chest saying to pull my shirt up, it's too low cut and that I have put him in a bad, bad position ('you shouldn't have worn something that was low cut, you knew you wanted to more than friends or you wouldn't have worn my favorite color - stuff that didn't make sense. It wasn't low cut, it was a v-neck t, and it was navy blue cotton fruit-of-the-loom.......not exactly seductive). He "pats" about five times which really is him trying to feel me. After we sit there for 15 min with me just sitting motionless, he is like f*** it, we're leaving. And he takes me back, opens my door, and says "take care" and stares ahead until I get out. I am left speechless and get out of there as fast as I can. I want to be his friend, I truly care about his life and what happens to him, but I cannot tolerate THIS -w hatever THIS is. WHY???? What does all of this mean?? I KNOW it's not normal, but what is it?!? Is it even possible to be friends with someone like this? So hard when I've known him all my life but yet the behavior just to me is intolerable. I won't get into my own relationship issues...........I seem to attract things like this ((. No. This is not normal. This is assault. I would cut off all contact with this man, as hard as that may be. It's not tolerable. It's dangerous. 5
curiouslysearching Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 No. This is not normal. This is assault. I would cut off all contact with this man, as hard as that may be. It's not tolerable. It's dangerous. Cookie is right in that this is simply NOT a good situation at all.
Redhead14 Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 As crazy as it sounds, Redhead, he helped me through a really rough patch many years ago and I guess I feel somewhat obligated because of that. He has done stuff like this before, but not to this degree. When we were teenagers he would pressure me into stuff and say we would break up if I didn't do XYZ, but I gave him a pass for that later because, well, we were teenagers. Weren't we all immature back then? Now, I don't understand why an adult can act that way. And why I LET him. It makes no sense, I know. Even to ME it makes no sense. Which is why I feel so bad about letting myself get in that position. Given, the history between you, he's doing it because you allowed it even once. He's the same guy you were dating years ago. He hasn't matured emotionally. He's emotionally stunted at the teenage level. Not knowing his childhood history, I would guess that he's experienced emotional trauma as a child -- alcoholic parents, dysfunctional family, etc. he helped me through a really rough patch many years ago and I guess I feel somewhat obligated because of that. -- It appears that he feels you are beholden to him as well. It's OK to feel some obligation to repay or support him in some way, but that obligation doesn't extend to PERSONAL BOUNDARIES. The why's for his behavior are completely irrelevant -- just note that he is a controlling/disrespectful and entitled and stay away from other people who behave that way as well. Other people may behave that way, but THEIR whys may be different -- what's important is how it affects you.
Jersey born raised Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 Well, his behavior seems to offer insight into why his marriage is off and on. He got to go. If you break down and write tell him he has only one chance, one chance to apologize and explain why you should ever meet him in person. Oh, what ever the backstory, his pass on sexual assualt puts you ahead if you must go down that road. (include former sentence in letter)
Author ladybug1984 Posted April 3, 2017 Author Posted April 3, 2017 Given, the history between you, he's doing it because you allowed it even once. He's the same guy you were dating years ago. He hasn't matured emotionally. He's emotionally stunted at the teenage level. Not knowing his childhood history, I would guess that he's experienced emotional trauma as a child -- alcoholic parents, dysfunctional family, etc. he helped me through a really rough patch many years ago and I guess I feel somewhat obligated because of that. -- It appears that he feels you are beholden to him as well. It's OK to feel some obligation to repay or support him in some way, but that obligation doesn't extend to PERSONAL BOUNDARIES. The why's for his behavior are completely irrelevant -- just note that he is a controlling/disrespectful and entitled and stay away from other people who behave that way as well. Other people may behave that way, but THEIR whys may be different -- what's important is how it affects you. You are right. I needed to hear that - personal boundaries. And you are right about the why's. It doesn't matter. There used to be such a good side of him. I keep thinking I will see that side come back. I don't know that it ever will, probably was just wishful thinking
Author ladybug1984 Posted April 3, 2017 Author Posted April 3, 2017 Of course there are always two sides to every story, and I don't know the on-again-off-again ex-w's story, only his. The way he described her and the names he would call her (all while they were "off," of course - never heard from him when they were "on," as it should be) were awful. I thought she must have really been a horrible person based on the way he would talk about her............now I'm not so sure. Maybe he did her the way he did me and by her calling him out on it, that earned her the status of getting some of the choice names he had for her, who knows. He is continuing to lose credibility with me. I am honestly scared to meet him again now. I am. But I am writing the letter just so I can feel good about myself. Well, his behavior seems to offer insight into why his marriage is off and on. He got to go. If you break down and write tell him he has only one chance, one chance to apologize and explain why you should ever meet him in person. Oh, what ever the backstory, his pass on sexual assualt puts you ahead if you must go down that road. (include former sentence in letter)
Southern Sun Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 He basically had you trapped and touched you against your will. And then he got angry when you told him no. It could have been even worse. I would never find myself alone with him again. Nor would I communicate with him in any way, ever. 3
Redhead14 Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 I don't know the on-again-off-again ex-w's story, -- Yes, you do . . . you're experiencing it too. The guy is a sh*t and she had the same thought process you do. Which is probably what attracts him to you -- similar lack of boundary enforcement . . .
preraph Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 Well, HE's certainly not improving with age, is he? Ugh. He has feelings alright, and they're all below his waist. He doesn't even have enough going on between his ears to know better than to try this with, well, anyone. This is exceedingly inappropriate and disrespectful and -- I'm reaching back a few generations for the right word -- seedy! I think you can stop sending him Christmas cards now. He's gross, and now you can thank your lucky stars that you are not the woman who had kids with him and is stuck with this dillweed the rest of her life. Now YOU can walk away and spray some Febreze on anything he touched. Phew. 1
Miss Spider Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 He basically had you trapped and touched you against your will. And then he got angry when you told him no. It could have been even worse. I would never find myself alone with him again. Nor would I communicate with him in any way, ever. Seriously. This. This time he did something unexpectedly threatening to you. How do you know next time he won't do something even more threatening and unexpected? Reading this, I actually felt relieved it didn't end worse. Scary.. 2
Author ladybug1984 Posted April 3, 2017 Author Posted April 3, 2017 I feel like such an idiot. I honestly thought I was doing something nice for another human being. Did not plan on being duped, taken advantage of, or made a fool..................but all of the above apply ((( Not even sure how I feel now except just stupid I appreciate everyone's feedback. I KNEW something wasn't right - and why didn't I trust my own feelings that it wasn't?! Big life lesson. Even those of us who have been on this planet 4 decades still have stuff to learn. <<<<<<<sigh>>>>>>>>>.
preraph Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 I feel like such an idiot. I honestly thought I was doing something nice for another human being. Did not plan on being duped, taken advantage of, or made a fool..................but all of the above apply ((( Not even sure how I feel now except just stupid I appreciate everyone's feedback. I KNEW something wasn't right - and why didn't I trust my own feelings that it wasn't?! Big life lesson. Even those of us who have been on this planet 4 decades still have stuff to learn. <<<<<<<sigh>>>>>>>>>. Do not punish yourself for giving him the benefit of the doubt for so long. That's just human decency. But now you know what he's like these days, you don't owe him anything because he treated you with zero respect and kind of assaulted you, even. I'm sorry. Make up for how he just made you feel by blocking him forever. Clean break. Now go take a bubble bath with a glass of wine or a bowl of ice cream and when you let the water out, imagine him going down the drain as well. You'll feel cleansed and you will no longer be under his spell. 1
Author ladybug1984 Posted April 3, 2017 Author Posted April 3, 2017 Yes, your strategy sounds like a good one...........now to decide which kind of ice cream )) He did have chance after chance. There are somethings we can't "fix"..............has to be up to the other person. I am a fixer by nature, but know better. Lesson learned ((. Do not punish yourself for giving him the benefit of the doubt for so long. That's just human decency. But now you know what he's like these days, you don't owe him anything because he treated you with zero respect and kind of assaulted you, even. I'm sorry. Make up for how he just made you feel by blocking him forever. Clean break. Now go take a bubble bath with a glass of wine or a bowl of ice cream and when you let the water out, imagine him going down the drain as well. You'll feel cleansed and you will no longer be under his spell. 1
preraph Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) Yes, your strategy sounds like a good one...........now to decide which kind of ice cream )) He did have chance after chance. There are somethings we can't "fix"..............has to be up to the other person. I am a fixer by nature, but know better. Lesson learned ((. Go ahead and get the big carton, or maybe even two flavors! It's time for you to stop fixing and start pampering you, and I know you can do it! Edited April 3, 2017 by preraph
spiderowl Posted April 4, 2017 Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) No, it's not normal behaviour, it is sexual aggression and assault. You did not invite him to 'pat' your chest. Any guy knows that you don't grope a woman without her permission. It sounds like this guy was contemplating pushing things further; fortunately he didn't! I am not surprised you are speechless. You must feel hurt and scared that he would behave like this. It shows a serious lack of self-control on his part. I doubt this is the first time he has behaved like this. If he cannot control impulses, then I bet there is someone else in his past who has experienced something similar. I think you need to talk to a rape crisis centre adviser just to get their take on this. You don't have to press charges against him but I think it would help you to be able to talk to someone about this disturbing experience. Maybe someone on here can advise you if there is a way to see if this guy has a criminal record of assault. He sounds a dangerous character. Whatever you do, please do not allow yourself to be alone with him again whatever past relationship you once shared. He has crossed a serious line here. Edited April 4, 2017 by spiderowl
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