Extremely confident dater, but can't do cold approaches

[Kitchen]

Hi all,

 

I'm a 29 year old male. Whenever I get a chance to go on a first date with a woman, I am extremely confident. Most of the times, it's me who doesn't want a 2nd date. I'm very good at conversation, texting, phone, and especially in person. I know how to build attraction and get physical.

 

Paradoxically, I am a total beginner when it comes to approaching women in person, striking that initial conversation. Thus, most of the dates I've been on have been through online dating - where the context is clear, and no need to make that initial "approach". Aside from that, I have had a few successes meeting women in bars/clubs where I had the extra confidence boost from alcohol.

 

But without alcohol, I can't recall ever making a cold approach, let alone successfully. I just don't know what I can possibly say to a girl at, say, the grocery store, or the gym, or the mall without feeling forced or awkward.

 

Does it have to do with physical attraction? Unfortunately for me, I'm a minority (Indian), average height, and average looks. Thank God for my personality and ambitions, as they carry most of the weight for me in the dating scene.

 

So my question is; what can I do to improve this specific aspect, if anything? I love meeting women in person rather than online, and want to get better at it, outside of the bar scene. I hate that I have to be tipsy to even make an approach.

 

Thanks

[Miss Spider]

What do you mean by "does it have to do with physical attraction"? Do you think maybe you're not physically attracted enough to these women to risk it?

 

Do you have trouble making small talk with anyone? Not just women you're attracted to? I would try reframe it, as hard as it may be, to see women you're attracted to as no different than anyone else. A human being with flaws and all. Talk to her like you would talk to anyone. Then, as you are going or she has to leave, enjoyed talking and would like to continue sometime. Then ask her for contact info.

 

She could say no or she could have a bf, but it's not the end of the world. It's just one person and there will be many more until you find the right one most likely.

 

I really don't buy this "women are rude when they're not interested" stuff a lot of guys claim at all. If they're rude, they probably just rude, unfriendly people in general and you dodged a bullet. Maybe they won't be interested or maybe they're busy, but As long as you aren't harassing them, it's flattering at the very least. Meeting someone, vibing, and asking them for their number is how ppl make social connectons, not limited to romantic ones.

 

Man I wish more guys would cold approach...and I don't mean yelling out hey girl how you doing

Edited April 2, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[CptInsano]

[...]

I really don't buy this "women are rude when they're not interested" stuff a lot of guys claim at all. If they're rude, they probably just rude, unfriendly people in general and you dodged a bullet. Maybe they won't be interested or maybe they're busy, but As long as you aren't harassing them, it's flattering at the very least. Meeting someone, vibing, and asking them for their number is how ppl make social connectons, not limited to romantic ones. [...]

 

The OP mentioned bars and clubs, and those are probably the only places where women can be quite rude, probably because they are being hit on all the time. So yes, a cold approach at a club could result in a negative experience. That being said, even that won't kill anything but your confidence.

 

This is quite in contrast to your everyday life. The chance of a rude response to the attempt at small talk in the break room of your office building is probably close to zero.

 

Man I wish more guys would cold approach...and I don't mean yelling out hey girl how you doing

 

I do agree, more guys should cold approach, because practice helps a lot. I'm just not sure that bars/clubs are the best places to get that experience.

[d0nnivain]

Take cold approach baby steps first.

 

 

Simply smile & say hi for a while. Just do this with random women. Learn to be more comfortable being friendly. Don't worry about whether you want to date these practice women. You are not to do anything other than smile & say hi.

 

 

After you get more comfortable doing that, when you find a woman attractive & she has responded positively to you saying hi, say something banal about the weather, her brand of coffee, a local sports team etc.

 

 

Proceed from there.

[Miss Spider]

You make a good point, cptinsano.

 

Like I said, I don't go to bars or clubs often, I rarely drink, but I have noticed women are harsher there. My friends and I aren't unles the guy is really drunk and obnoxious, can't take a no thx

 

But I have seen women be rude to men at bars...I think it's uncalled for and says more about them. I've seen them cuss guys out, and the stuff they say in the ladies room...jeez. Maybe because they're mostly drunk too? i don't get it. Even getting approached a lot I dunno if it's a good excuse for their behavior.

 

But yeah, definitely expand to day approaches, op. just realize rejection is part of it. A lot of men avoid day approach altogether. "Oh she's grocery shopping, she doesn't want to talk" No!! But still I don't think that means you should stop approaching at bars. From what I hear, they're one of the most common places to meet people.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[Kitchen]

What do you mean by "does it have to do with physical attraction"? Do you think maybe you're not physically attracted enough to these women to risk it?

 

Sorry didn't make it clear. I meant, does it have to do with my physical attraction? With a cold approach, you have limited time to showcase your personality, that I feel most women would instareject based on looks.

 

 

Do you have trouble making small talk with anyone? Not just women you're attracted to? I would try reframe it, as hard as it may be, to see women you're attracted to as no different than anyone else. A human being with flaws and all. Talk to her like you would talk to anyone. Then, as you are going or she has to leave, enjoyed talking and would like to continue sometime. Then ask her for contact info.

 

This is a good point and I didn't think of it like that. It's not so much that I have trouble making small talk. Like, I'm not shy or anything. But, I just don't know what the hell to say unless it's obvious. Also, I'm not one to care for small talk with strangers (excluding attractive women). I see people strike up conversations willingly and easily with me or others on say, the coffee line. And I just don't get it, haha.

 

I am an introverted extrovert (we exist). That means, I don't care or even know how to talk to random strangers, and I hate pointless conversations. Meanwhile, I can talk anyone up during dinner - make connections or what not. I won't hesitate to pick up a microphone and address a crowd at a wedding.

 

Like I honestly don't know what the hell am I supposed to say in a 2 minute window to someone, let alone a woman, which would create enough connection that the person would want to keep in touch/ share contact info!

[d0nnivain]

Like I honestly don't know what the hell am I supposed to say in a 2 minute window to someone, let alone a woman, which would create enough connection that the person would want to keep in touch/ share contact info!

 

 

At 2 minutes you are only trying to stretch it to 5 minutes. The key is to keep the other person talking. Then after an hour or so you ask for contact info, not before.

[Kitchen]

 

 

After you get more comfortable doing that, when you find a woman attractive & she has responded positively to you saying hi, say something banal about the weather, her brand of coffee, a local sports team etc.

 

 

Proceed from there.

 

See but isn't that seem so forced? Obv I'm missing something as people do this all the time.

 

But I feel if I tried that it would just come off so forced and therefore awkward and creepy.

 

Which brings me back to my previous question - do you have to be a well above average looking person for it to work?

[Kitchen]

At 2 minutes you are only trying to stretch it to 5 minutes. The key is to keep the other person talking. Then after an hour or so you ask for contact info, not before.

 

But how often is there a scenario when you have an hour to talk? Doesn't seem possible in a grocery store or coffee shop..

[d0nnivain]

It's not forced, well a bit because you have to force yourself to be the brave one & break the ice. It doesn't matter what you say so much as the fact that you said something. If the person finds you not scary, dangerous & somewhat interesting, they will keep talking to you. People like to talk to other people. We are social pack animals

 

 

Except right before work, if you keep talking you can parlay it into a coffee or something. It does take practice but it can be done.

 

 

You have to view it more as being friendly, not just trying to pick somebody up. Talk to members of your own gender. Even sitting next to my husband, I still talk to strangers.

[Kitchen]

It's not forced, well a bit because you have to force yourself to be the brave one & break the ice. It doesn't matter what you say so much as the fact that you said something. If the person finds you not scary, dangerous & somewhat interesting, they will keep talking to you. People like to talk to other people. We are social pack animals

 

 

Except right before work, if you keep talking you can parlay it into a coffee or something. It does take practice but it can be done.

 

 

You have to view it more as being friendly, not just trying to pick somebody up. Talk to members of your own gender. Even sitting next to my husband, I still talk to strangers.

 

Interesting. Okay, I'm going to try it this week without gender preference and take it from there. Will report back. Now that I think about it, I think I'd get the same anxiety talking to a male as to a female - afraid of coming off as a weirdo or Amway salesman! I guess it's not so much about fear of talking to women as much as it is a social anxiety.

 

Just for fun, any females reading this - can you tell us your thoughts on a cold approach during day time vs. at the bar scene? Which one you prefer? And please share some stories of the day time pick up that has been successful. TIA

[d0nnivain]

I am a woman. Time of day doesn't matter. In the light of day sans alcohol, I think a guy is confident. Many women think he's invasive however. There is a fine line. When I was a younger woman I expected to be hit on in a bar. I rarely took it seriously because well, it was a bar.

 

 

The art to networking is putting the other person at ease & making it all about what they want / need not about what you are selling (a product / service in business or yourself as potential date socially)

[NVO]

Ha, this is my problem as well. Let's see what we can find out...

[CryForNoOne]

At 2 minutes you are only trying to stretch it to 5 minutes. The key is to keep the other person talking. Then after an hour or so you ask for contact info, not before.

 

1 hour? Lol. You have a lot more free time than me. 5 minutes is a long convo unless I'm waiting at the DMV...

[Miss Spider]

See but isn't that seem so forced? Obv I'm missing something as people do this all the time.

 

But I feel if I tried that it would just come off so forced and therefore awkward and creepy.

 

Which brings me back to my previous question - do you have to be a well above average looking person for it to work?

 

 

Does looks matter in dating? Who am I to lie? A resounding "yes" to a lot of people. But I think there's a bigger picture being missed here.

 

I think that if you want maximum results in life you take max risks. Learn to deal with rejection and acclimate yourself to the word "no" and even "hell no" (because there are rude people out there). If you never do this, you will most likely end up wondering "what if" and settling. It's not worth it. Yes, some people may not want to talk to you for any given reason. That's on them. All you're doing here is being a friendly, confident person. You're showing interest in and engaging with someone else. And you DGAF what they think because you know this.

 

Master the art of DGAF. In my opinion,it's the best tool for a man in the dating world(and almost everywhere in life). First of all, it's very sexy to women because it's a consequence of confidence. Many men spend years practicing how to mimic the actions of men who truly DGAF. It's very easy to tell and comes off try-hard. Secondly, if you really DGAF and a person brushes you off, guess what? You DGAF. On to the next. It's self assurance.

 

 

I'm am female and day approach wins by a thread simply because it has the advantage of displaying social confidence and friendliness of the non-liquid variety. But it's not the venue so much as learning to pick up on social cues. Is she huddled in a corner with her headphones on and her face in a book? She probably doesn't wanna talk atm. It takes practice for some.

 

Oh and btw. I'm a 6.5 ish on the Official Scale of Objective Attractiveness and I've been attracted to 5.5s and maybe lower. Seriously though, yes, there are people who are just "wow", but most of the men I've been attracted to haven't been that. A lot of my friends will be "uh no. I don't get it" and vice versa. Who is into you is a subjective thing. Like all things, work with what you have and tweak where necessary.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[curiouslysearching]

Cookie....it is Monday morning and it is raining but that doesn't

give you the right to tell a "white lie" you are certainly a 9+ and

nowhere near the 6's...tisk tisk

[CptInsano]

But how often is there a scenario when you have an hour to talk? Doesn't seem possible in a grocery store or coffee shop..

 

It doesn't have to be an hour, but many people have 15 minutes. Unless I am already late for a meeting I usually have 15 minutes to talk.

 

Another key aspect is that it helps a lot if you actually enjoy talking to other people. Once you enjoy it, and speak to strangers simply because you like it, it will hardly ever come across as forced.

 

For example, yesterday morning I had breakfast at a hotel. I was standing behind a woman who poured herself some decaf. I simply asked: "You drink decaf in the morning?" That was all that was needed for her to talk for the next five minutes. Don't think that you need to come up with something extremely smart or that you will maintain the conversation by yourself. A lot of people like to chat, women in particular.

[Miss Spider]

Cookie....it is Monday morning and it is raining but that doesn't

give you the right to tell a "white lie" you are certainly a 9+ and

nowhere near the 6's...tisk tisk

 

 

^ Totally agree. Doesn't need to be an hour but sometimes you hit it off with someone and it becomes an hour..and you make a friend

 

Curiously..it is Monday morning..and it is raining...and you know what I look like?! I thought I only showed one person here*checks her windows*

 

but ty I appreciate that.

 

Is it "does looks" or "do looks" ... I thought because it was plural but I guess it's singular. Now I'm hyper vigilant of my grammar because there are some grammar not z's lurking about lol. Sorry if that was hard to read!

Edited April 3, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[TheTraveler]

Another key aspect is that it helps a lot if you actually enjoy talking to other people. Once you enjoy it, and speak to strangers simply because you like it, it will hardly ever come across as forced.

 

For example, yesterday morning I had breakfast at a hotel. I was standing behind a woman who poured herself some decaf. I simply asked: "You drink decaf in the morning?" That was all that was needed for her to talk for the next five minutes. Don't think that you need to come up with something extremely smart or that you will maintain the conversation by yourself. A lot of people like to chat, women in particular.

 

Agree with this and I enjoy chatting up strangers. Not every encounter has to be sexual or goal driven i.e. getting a number/setting a date.

 

Women love to talk...and I mean love to talk. As long as you don't come off as creepy weirdo guy and you probe the right questions they open up. Even if you analyze the situation correctly, you can still get rejected(married/bf/not interested). Guess what? That's life. The key is at least you tried.

 

I think the OP mentioned does looks matter? Well yes it allows more leeway. The more attractive you are, the more you can screw up and get away with it.

[curiouslysearching]

Cookie....it is Monday morning and it is raining but that doesn't

give you the right to tell a "white lie" you are certainly a 9+ and

nowhere near the 6's...tisk tisk

 

Cookie Cookie....somethings "people" just KNOW to be true...you are

the real deal

[CptInsano]

Agree with this and I enjoy chatting up strangers. Not every encounter has to be sexual or goal driven i.e. getting a number/setting a date.

 

No, but it is relatively easy to ask for a number of things go well. But I would expect maybe 1% of the chats to lead to anything.

 

Women love to talk...and I mean love to talk. As long as you don't come off as creepy weirdo guy and you probe the right questions they open up. Even if you analyze the situation correctly, you can still get rejected(married/bf/not interested). Guess what? That's life. The key is at least you tried.

 

If you talk to a stranger you are likely not a match, anyhow. It's truly a numbers game, but it's great if you don't mind talking to people. You hear some interesting stories, or just spend and evening together. It really doesn't matter as long as you consider the interaction itself to be positive.

 

I think the OP mentioned does looks matter? Well yes it allows more leeway. The more attractive you are, the more you can screw up and get away with it.

 

Looks do matter, but so do your demeanor and overall appearance.

[preraph]

There are cold approaches, which I'll define by a man coming on to a woman he doesn't know with the sole purpose of trying to get her to fork over her phone number or leave with him right now. These are just risky business, but at a bar, they are part of the terrain. Even at a bar, the indirect approach is best. Your goal shouldn't be to nail her tonight. It should be to talk to her about whatever is going on and hope you see her again there sometime soon and she is friendly. To ensure you might see her again, be sure and look at the itinerary of what's happening at the bar and then you can say, "Are you coming for happy hour next Thursday?" or "I'll be here for Band X. Are you coming?"

 

Choose someone who you have seen there before and go comment on the band or the food or the crowd and say, "I've seen you before. I'm Steve." Don't stick to her like a cheap suit or try to con her out of her info yet. She may offer it up if she remembers you too and finds you attractive, or more likely, she may give you a sign one way or the other if she'd like to talk more or have a drink with you. If you end up kind of getting to know one another and hanging there, then ask for her number. If not, wait until next time and see if she is friendly or avoidant.

 

At a nonbar, just out doing errands, just be friendly and talk to everyone. Now, it is not easy to get a phone number on a one-time meet. Again, it works best with someone you have seen before there and are likely to see again. It's very hard to move fast enough if this is a one-time shot, and I'll tell you the one that happened to me.

 

I was at Sam's Club and I happened to be dressed really nice, long skirt, dressed up. I had just walked in the portal when I saw a guy with slightly longer hair bent over the CDs. I was in the process of mouthing "Cute!" to myself when he looked right at me. From then on we were both trying to figure how to navigate this.

 

I was buying toilet paper and something else, no cart, just carrying it. So I got in line at the register and figured if he was interested he'd see me and intercept me some way. I did see him out of the corner of my eye. I paid and walked toward the door and -- oops on purpose -- dropped my toilet paper. He picked it up and we began talking and he managed to tell me he was visiting at Thanksgiving from Colorado and we had a nice conversation headed to my car, but in the end, regretfully, neither of us felt we had established enough precedent to exchange information, though we both badly wanted to, I am sure. I just couldn't be such a tramp, not knowing if he could be married, to just write it down and hand it to him. If he's mentioned that he was single and thought to work that in some way (I don't think i even looked for a ring either), I might have.

 

It's not easy if you only see them once because you run up against being respectful and acknowledging ethics. But go places where you see people over and over again, and just be friendly to everyone you meet and look approachable and people will talk to you. I'm old and fat now but approachable when in a good mood, so people talk to me all the time.

[jay1983]

I wouldn't approach a girl unless she sent me the right signals. Eye contact or smile. If she's got her face buried in her phone or looking in every direction but mine, that's a no go.

[TheBathWater]

Hi all,

 

I'm a 29 year old male. Whenever I get a chance to go on a first date with a woman, I am extremely confident. Most of the times, it's me who doesn't want a 2nd date. I'm very good at conversation, texting, phone, and especially in person. I know how to build attraction and get physical.

 

Paradoxically, I am a total beginner when it comes to approaching women in person, striking that initial conversation. Thus, most of the dates I've been on have been through online dating - where the context is clear, and no need to make that initial "approach". Aside from that, I have had a few successes meeting women in bars/clubs where I had the extra confidence boost from alcohol.

 

But without alcohol, I can't recall ever making a cold approach, let alone successfully. I just don't know what I can possibly say to a girl at, say, the grocery store, or the gym, or the mall without feeling forced or awkward.

 

Does it have to do with physical attraction? Unfortunately for me, I'm a minority (Indian), average height, and average looks. Thank God for my personality and ambitions, as they carry most of the weight for me in the dating scene.

 

So my question is; what can I do to improve this specific aspect, if anything? I love meeting women in person rather than online, and want to get better at it, outside of the bar scene. I hate that I have to be tipsy to even make an approach.

 

Thanks

 

I can relate to a lot of what you wrote. I don't believe that approaching women ever gets easy, but I do believe it gets easier when you can be consistent about it.

 

It seems like the best way for you, me, and a lot of other guys who want to approach consistently is to first get used to just being social with everyone, everywhere, all the time. Talk to strangers in line, guys and girls, attractive and unattractive. Just practice enjoying the experience of interaction. Then talking to women you are interested in becomes a lot more 'natural', no longer feels forced, and you're use enough to improvising conversation on the fly at this point to engage her.

 

I notice that when I start doing this for just a couple of weeks things go really well for me, but when I've been rusty (e.g. after a breakup and in hibernation mode for a while) then I absolutely suck at making anything good happen. I'm probably not even really saying anything different in both scenarios, but it's THE WAY that I am presenting myself and my overall vibe that matters. But as a side note, I do think it's good for guys to have a few mindsets or variations of some pickup line you can say even if you don't use them, just so you have the extra confidence boost that you can rely on something if you go blank. But just getting out there, being social, and smiling and saying "hi" to women is really all that's needed to get in there. Like going to the gym, the hardest part is getting there. The muscle will build naturally with consistent practice.

 

Finally, forget about the looks stuff. Improve what you can and accept what you cannot. The men who are the best with the ladies are usually not considered physically attractive. I've met a lot of playboy types, dating coaches/'gurus', etc... and the most successful guy I've ever personally known with women is in his mid-thirties and is significantly overweight, earns a low income, has greasy long hair, a big beard, no sense of fashion, has lost most of his teeth, smokes cigarettes like a chimney, lives at home with his parents, and plays online video games all the time. But he is funny, funny, funny, very smart, and just interesting to hang around. In the 20 years I've known him, he's constantly had HOT girls in his life and I'm sure he's gone to bed with a couple hundred at this point. A true legend. But even he gets nervous with girls, has asked me and our mutual friends for advice, has doubted himself, etc... There's really not much of a difference in him versus anyone else. It's just practice, building social muscle, and having fun. If he can get girls, anyone can.

Edited April 3, 2017 by TunaInTheBrine

[Titanll]

If by cold approaches you mean really cold approaches where the woman has shown you zero interest, you have nothing to lose but get used to being shot down. I can't imagine that you will have any success. Women and men give approach calls and signs of interest to people that they are interested in.

 

If you don't know these signals, learn them. If you learn them and don't see them, approach with caution...