Do you feel infidelity is a form of abuse?

[5x5]

Really?

 

So you don't think that lying and gaslighting (which is no more than f***ing with someone's reality) are abusive and controlling? Of course they are. It's the WS's way of making sure that their cake supply continues.

 

Yep.

 

Deceit is hardly abuse.

 

So what's "an emotionally fragile personality" ??

 

Someone who evidently can't cope with trauma without needing help via self medication or professional help.

 

Some people really do cope with such experiences quite easily, those people are evidently emotionally resilient.

[5x5]

That's ridiculous, personal experience shape our views. However, not everyone view sex outside of a relationship as that bad, those people wouldn't view it as abusive. Yet .Let that cheat often say they won't accept being cheated on. If it's such an unintentional act why can't they also accept it when/if it happens to them.

 

I have been cheated on at least once and ended a marriage over it. Yet I've never cheated on any of my sexual partners despite having variously had some explicit offers, because I consider it poor form.

 

I did not mention intent since it was irrelevant to the discussion, this is about whether sexual betrayal constitutes abuse, I say it doesn't since although it is an egregious act it really isn't that bad compared to what is normally considered abuse.

 

That said since you are referring to intent, I will say that sexual infidelity is always a choice and does not occur by accident and is entirely the responsibility of the person undertaking the betrayal.

 

Emotionally fragile, really?

 

Absolutely, if one cannot get over such experiences they are emotionally fragile.

[5x5]

what if cheating caused that emotional fragility and it could be proven.....to have caused a mental illness called ptsd..

 

Not everyone who experiences infrequent through to frequent trauma , ever suffers from PTSD or depression at all. People like that are evidently emotionally resilient. Those who succumb to such experiences are less emotionally resilient.

 

To break down is not to be a failure as a person, just as not breaking down is not to be a success as a person.

 

Some people are resilient in the face of extreme trauma, while some other people are not.

 

i have a very resilient personality...but i am fractured.....you have no idea how resilient...im a dead set survivor of abuse....sexual emotional and physical........and i call cheating......abuse..and just as bad .......as physical abuse...often in fact ....more damaging.............deb

 

I also have a resilient personality, yet I am not fractured at all. If I weren't resilient I might call myself fractured.

 

Likewise you have no idea how resilient I am.

 

Before I go on I just want to make it clear, that I am not trying to belittle you or anyone's experiences here. I will also say I am sorry that you have experienced terrible things.

 

That said I am trying to share that some of us can experience all sorts of significant through extreme trauma through many years, yet find themselves not phased particularly by the experience. In fact rather than being deeply hurt by such experiences, some of us find the experience of surviving such events quite exhilarating and life affirming. In my experience it feels great to survive.

 

When I was a young child I often had the gall to not eat what was served to me for dinner. As a consequence of that my parents would sometimes variously hold me by the neck face down in my food, strangling me. While alternately hitting me about the head in the hope that I would yield to them and eat what I didn't want to eat. There were a number of occasions when my parents did this to me, where I couldn't breathe and thought I was going to die. Yet no matter what they did, there was no way I was ever going to give up. For my own survival as myself, I felt I could not yield and would rather die than give up being me.

 

At other times I was held under a pouring tap where I couldn't breathe then lifted out then put under again and again.

 

It was not uncommon for me to be sometimes punched in the face or stomach by my father. I even went to school one day when I was 14 with two black eyes, telling my friends and teachers alike that I had crashed a bicycle. My family life sucked, so much at various time growing up I sometimes never went home, and even jigged school for a whole month till I got caught.

 

When in fact my father had punched me in the face for daring to hold my arm above my head to protect myself from my mothers violence. Yet there was no way I was going to be weak and tell the truth of what happened. I could take it, as I can always take it. As long as I am alive and can pick myself up off the ground I will press on until I am dead.

 

Up until I was 14 it was common for me to be hit with kitchen implements by my mother. While my father would use his belt on me or just punch me instead, the punching tended to happen whenever I tried to protect myself from my mother.

 

Then at 14 I seldom spent a lot of time at home, where I frequently stayed at older friends places whenever I could.

 

At 17 I joined the Regular Army in the late 80's, where my recruit course experience at Kapooka saw me see blanket bashings and other stuff. To the point that the platoon downstairs from us was rolled into ours, since theirs had been halved through discharges and people going AWOL.

 

One guy seemed to feel it was so bad he slashed his wrists, making a bloody mess after being caught trying to go AWOL. While I saw some of my fellow Recruit's accept being punched in the stomach by the Corporal's (who were the Section Commander instructors), as an alternative to being charged for military offences. That ABC show called Ladies In Lines which created a political controversy at the time, looked like a piss weak experience versus what male recruits experienced.

 

Later I then fractured every bone in both legs and feet up into my hips, which saw me medically discharged for circa 15 months before I recovered enough to be able to rejoin the Army. Where in the second time round after three years of service, I was then promoted to Corporal as an Infantry Section Commander. Four years later I was a Platoon Sergeant, and after that I went back to being a Corporal on transfer to Intelligence.

 

In my time with the Army, I've had some close calls, seen people with various injuries including penetrative and gaping wounds. Plus one chap who was literally almost run over by a Leopard tank during some live fire attack training, he was saved at the last moment by the guy next to him who dragged him out of the way (as it turns out some people's hair can literally turn grey overnight).

 

I also briefly knew a guy who had a Recruit cut in half and killed in front of him while he got peppered with shrapnel. When the Recruit's own grenades which the Recruit had tampered with detonated in the grenade bay. I have had one of my soldiers heart stop on three seperate occasions after he went down requiring some effort to keep him alive. I have had machine gun bullets landing around me, yet my men and I were perfectly calm through it.

 

I have been king hit and in another instance was mugged unsuccessfully, since I laughed at both of them and told them "good luck you're welcome to try", so they then thought better of it. I have had people try to hit me with bats and stab me. I was close witness since I was just behind them, to police firing shots at some bank robbery suspects in a car.

 

I have seen people with some horrific injuries both alive and dead, while I have rendered first aid to people with critical injuries. I have been in a horrific multiple casualty incident as an unharmed survivor, who had a slow motion extremely close call. Where I was splashed with my now wife's (early on in our dating experience) blood, when she got smashed up terribly when I was missed. I almost died through illness which wasn't treated in a timely manner at 30.

 

Plus I was betrayed by my ex-wife, when she had sex with another man at a party while I was working my guts out as a trainee on an Infantry IET course. Now I won't pretend it didn't hurt because it did in a stomach turning kind of way. Yet as with all things that hurt, threaten, injure, frighten and or harm me. I get over them pretty easily and quite quickly.

 

There's plenty more but meh. Lots of people have experienced far worse than me and they're perfectly fine after the fact. So I don't see why I should be upset about any of my experiences. Yet given those experiences infidelity isn't even in my top ten of life can suck moments.

 

If it doesn't kill me, I've really got nothing much to whinge about, so one foot in front of the other go on. On the other hand if something does kill me, it's not going to bother me after the fact either since being dead I doubt I will know about it.

 

So there's no point in me worrying about bad experiences after the fact.

[5x5]

Really?

I am not emotionally resilient?

Pfftt...

 

I don't know if you're emotionally resilient.

 

If you have suffered from PTSD and or depression it is likely you're not.

 

Not being emotionally resilient, does not mean that person is somehow lesser than someone who is resilient.

 

Most bs are incredibly emotionally resilient.

 

That may be true and it wouldn't surprise me if it is the case.

 

That said those who have significant trouble coping with such things aren't emotionally resilient people.

 

I'm glad you were able to move on.

 

Thank-you and if applicable I hope you and all others have been fortunate to have done the same.

[5x5]

Do you feel hat a man or woman who hits their spouse, who calls them names or who abuses them in other ways intends to hurt them and that this is part of a thought out action?

 

Yes I do think that they have intent.

 

As someone who has been quite intimate with extreme violence on the receiving end, through to its delivery from a very young age thence into adulthood. I think that doing something deceitfully behind someones back, in no way comes close to the deliberate and very direct application of notable physical violence.

 

I don't think most are really thinking it out, they are simply reacting to something that hurts them or makes them angry.

 

The end result is the same, and words and actions of cheating can hurt every bit as much as being hit.

 

Of course the end result isn't the same, some people are more resilient to some things than others. We simply do not all respond to the same things in the same way.

 

Some people are resilient in the face of extreme trauma, while others are not and as a consequence can instead suffer from depression or PTSD. As I understand it such resilience probably has a genetic component.

 

We are not all the same, we are not all emotionally resilient.

 

As someone who has came close to being killed through accident and the application of violence on a number of occasions. As well as almost dying through illness (the surgeon said I shouldn't have survived). While also having experienced marital infidelity (the real kind where she had sex, not that emotional affair crap). I think the direct application of violence with intent is far worse than sexual infidelity.

 

In my opinion this idea that sexual cheating is as bad as many more horrific things, is somewhat hyperbolic.

[Arieswoman]

5 x 5,

 

Originally Posted by Arieswoman View Post

Really?

 

So you don't think that lying and gaslighting (which is no more than f***ing with someone's reality) are abusive and controlling? Of course they are. It's the WS's way of making sure that their cake supply continues.

Yep.

 

Deceit is hardly abuse.

 

I think the experiences you quote are unfortunately extreme and not usual.

 

I understand that if anyone has been in the military and seen their mates blown to $hi£r@g$ before their eyes, then many other issues pale into insignificance because de-sensitisation * creeps in as a coping mechanism.

 

Hence we have the sad case of "Marine A" in UK who was imprisoned for murder after killing a Taliban member in Helmand province, Afghanistan.

 

While such desensitisation is require on the battlefield in order for troops to survive, it serves no purpose in civvy street.

 

* In psychology, desensitization is defined as the diminished emotional responsiveness to a negative or aversive stimulus after repeated exposure to it.

[somanymistakes]

I just don't think it's useful or helpful to argue over whether a tomato is a fruit or a vegetable when the important thing is how it tastes.

 

Breaking your vows is wrong and harmful. It doesn't need to be labeled as abuse for that to be true.

[todreaminblue]

Not everyone who experiences infrequent through to frequent trauma , ever suffers from PTSD or depression at all. People like that are evidently emotionally resilient. Those who succumb to such experiences are less emotionally resilient.

 

 

 

So there's no point in me worrying about bad experiences after the fact.

 

What is abuse and what does it mean to be “abusive”?

 

Abuse is when one person hurts another person, either physically or emotionally. Abuse happens over time, usually in a cycle. It often continues until the person who is being abused gets help. Sometimes, someone else—a friend, family member—recognizes the abuse and jumps in to help.

 

Many times, abuse can be hard to recognize and understand. One of the reasons is that an abusive person may not always seem abusive. An abusive person might seem like a nice person a lot of the time, and they might say that they care or are in love. Abuse rarely stops all by itself, but there are ways to get help if you think you are being abused.

https://sexetc.org/info-center/post/what-is-abuse-and-what-does-it-mean-to-be-abusive/

 

Those who succumb to such experiences are less emotionally resilient.

 

are you saying survivors of abuse are less emotionally resilient.....you think them victims then.....

 

to succumb...clever use of words..so soft a phrse....almost ...languid.....

 

 

.what about ...

 

to get knocked down ..

to have the mental and emotional crap beaten out of you...thats more real life like and not so poetic....

 

 

..and be able to stand back up......for example......soemoen who has never been punched in the face...the first king hit in the face they get an unexpected one.......they are going down...hard...a person who has seen that form ofabuse..and experienced a king hit..knows when they go down...to roll as soon as they can into a ball to avoid head shots or boots.........to protect the head until they can stand again without dizziness.... and either fight back then or run a less resilient person.......might try and stand straight back up in the line of fire and be as dizzy as crap..or not protect the head and get a boot to the face........how then ....are they more resilient....for never experiencing something...

 

 

what doesnt kill you mentality but makes you stronger.....is similar to what you wrote about bad experiences after the fact ...in line with this thinking.......the more abuse you cop the more resilient you are to it or as another poster put...desensitised....its probably why my pain threshhold is one where i often laugh in extreme pain........i dont scream out in pain......where others would writhe and scream.....i got stoned by a group of teen boys...literally when i was a kid......i just curled myself in a ball and took it..they had me surrounded.....never cried out....cheating felt worse....copped a few king hits too.....boot to the head....never been knocked out..had concussion though .......and i have been stomped on....had my head smashed into a toilet bowl by a thressome of drunk girls.... another non escape scenario me protecting another....who couldnt handle abuse ...too tiny..........i know abuse....

 

emotional abuse to me is the worst kind of abuse you can do to a person.....in my opinion...i guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree on what abuse is .....and who is a victim ...and who is resilient.....me im a survivor...always will be..and youre right i dont know you either....but i wish you well....deb

Edited April 3, 2017 by todreaminblue

[todreaminblue]

I would like to thank the op for starting this thread...its been ...real..and given me strength in my conviction.......seeing however i am getting ocd i wont be posting..my posts are getting longer and longer ...and more i guess ...tellign of who i am..... so i would really appreciate if poster dont reply to my posts...i could have them removed if i asked nicely the mods probably would remove them for me.......but ill leave them here for now..........because they express my passion for the topic....

 

 

im sorry if i have offended anybody or anyone felt disrespected by my replies.i feel in a way i hav ebeen and i dont want to be...that way.....

 

 

.i can get tunnel vision with my convictions.......and i will continue to read replies to this topic..because i am now ocd about it...i would prefer now not to be replied too or quoted...... i would feel that i should reply or clarify........thanks op...i wish every one the best..:0).......deb

Edited April 3, 2017 by todreaminblue

[waterwoman]

It felt like abuse. And nearly 5 years later I can still get brief flashbacks that make me feel it all over again.

 

Call it what you like but the impact on me of H's affair felt abusive.

[waterwoman]

This is an inappropriate analogy for infidelity.

 

Certainly BSs are traumatized by the discovery of the infidelity. But if you read up on real psychological abuse (as well as physical abuse and emotional abuse), you will find that there is INTENTION behind it. More specifically, intention to hurt the victim in question, which in this case, would be the BS.

 

As others have said, usually the pain a BS experiences is collateral damage. It is NOT the intended effect of the infidelity.

 

If one has a WS who is specifically using affairs as a method of causing pain to a BS, then yes, I would say that WS is likely abusive. I imagine that person is also using other forms of psychological, emotional, even potentially physical abuse.

 

An abusive person by nature will use a variety of tactics to control, manipulate, and cause pain to their victim. But this is not typically the aim of a WS in an affair.

 

I think that's why, as others have said, it's actually a bit careless to call all of this the same thing.

 

Oh well, it's incidental abuse! I think that makes it worse - yes, I hurt you but actually you didn't even matter enough for it to be deliberate. Great !Thanks darling

 

Is child neglect a form of abuse? That isn't deliberate - ie not 'I will starve you to punish you for peeing on the carpet' but 'I just forgot to feed you because I was busy and I don't care enough to remember'.

[Southern Sun]

I just don't think it's useful or helpful to argue over whether a tomato is a fruit or a vegetable when the important thing is how it tastes.

 

Breaking your vows is wrong and harmful. It doesn't need to be labeled as abuse for that to be true.

 

This is where I am with it.

 

However, I thought about it further and I do agree that cheating can be abusive. It can be experienced as abuse. As others have mentioned, in order to carry on a secret second life, a person has to lie to their spouse, has to be at least a little manipulative, and will likely gaslight at some point. I think there are a spectrum of cheaters. Some will carry on their cheating for a long time, try to make their spouse feel crazy, deny their reality, essentially throw their behavior in their spouse's face. There are those who are excellent liars, who may be putting their spouse's health at risk, as another poster said. I can see how all of this can feel no different than your garden-variety character-disordered abuser. I guess the part that I took exception to is that with the latter, the abuser is typically acting out directly on their intimate partner; and with a cheater, the "abuse" is a means to an end.

 

Perhaps it's no different. But I would think the average cheater who is not character-disordered would not normally resort to those tactics, outside of the affair. They are only doing so in the "fog" (or whatever), acting like a dumbazz in an effort to protect what they want. Like a selfish 2 year old.

 

Still. I suppose the experience is the same. And getting an STD on accident or on purpose has the same end result.

 

However, I'm not sure how helpful it is to paint all forms of victimization as "abuse." As others have said, it dilutes the meaning of the word. I think we already have a societal reaction of skepticism when a person calls out the word "abuse" in regards to a relationship. People are all about victim-blaming. Perhaps infidelity is very deserving to be in this category, I'm not sure. But we should be careful, if so, about throwing everything but the kitchen sink in there.

[wmacbride]

And when it's not being spoken by a cheater?

 

It's a rare affair that is done intentionally to punish a spouse. It does happen (often over jealousy or something) but more often, the cheater doesn't intend to hurt their betrayed spouse because they don't intend for their betrayed spouse to ever find out about it.

 

Whether or ot the ws intended to cause harm doesn't matter.

Most people who abuse someone else aren't sitting around planning to hurt them. they are reacting to an event or behavior that upsets them. Is a man who reacts to his wife's actions with fist planning that out? Probably not. Does that mean he's not abusive? No.

 

I'm not saying no abuser plans their actions, ( to me, someone who sits down and purposefully plan to harm their husband or wife has some deep seated issues).

 

I often wonder if this difference in perspective comes about based on whether you are the bs or the ws.

[lionlover1973]

An argument was presented in this thread referring to 'Emotional Resiliency'.

 

Can the same argument be applied to military and/or law enforcement personnel that end up with PTSD; Depression; Etc.?

Certain environments and levels of exposure can produce serious long-term effects on brain function.

In fact, it is scientifically proven.

 

We don't have to label infidelity 'abuse'.

But there is no denying both share similar patterns and both produce trauma.

[wmacbride]

Yep.

 

Deceit is hardly abuse.

 

 

 

Someone who evidently can't cope with trauma without needing help via self medication or professional help.

 

Some people really do cope with such experiences quite easily, those people are evidently emotionally resilient.

 

Look...I get that your wife's cheating ran off you like water off a ducks back. I get it. That's how you handled it, but to sit thee and judge other bs who were harder hot, that's really difficult to swallow.

 

btw, all this talk about not being emotionally resilient?

 

I'm a military spouse, and that means there are months when I might as well be a single parent to three kids, all of when have varying degrees of developmental and health issues.

 

My spouse was coping with combat elated PTSD, and was slipping. I didn't realize that, and should have provided him with more support, but you can't force an adult to seek mental health help.

 

He ended up having an A, and it was disclosed to me maybe two weeks before he was due to be deployed for another tour. While he was gone, I hardly got to speak with him, and when I didn't, we couldn't talk much.

 

While all this was going on, I was taking my kids tot heir usual slew of medical appointments, schools meetings, etc., and guess who decided to act like a jackass? His ex-ow, who was calling, emailing, hanging around my property, etc. She had also sent him an anonymous email telling him I was cheating on him ( of course, I wasn't). After that, his warrant officer called me, because he had seen the email going through ( the disptick of the ow used the military email network to send it).

 

My h's warrant called me to ask what was going on, and it all came out. I was asked not to say anything to my H about it until he got back about 5 months later, and then we had it out. He ended up going to his COC and admitting what had happened and asking for therapy for PTSD.

 

All that took a along time, and through all of it, I was both mom and dad.

 

That's only a part of what I, as a bs, have been through. I am still standing. I supported my h, my children and even his ex-ow ( don't ask) through all fo this, and many bs go through so much worse. They support their families through divorce, some if them have picked themselves up after being treated like crap and keep right on going.

 

Not emotionally resilient? I you can say that about men and women who have been through some very awful experiences and still come out the other side, then I can't understand your view at all

[5x5]

An argument was presented in this thread referring to 'Emotional Resiliency'.

 

Can the same argument be applied to military and/or law enforcement personnel that end up with PTSD; Depression; Etc.?

Certain environments and levels of exposure can produce serious long-term effects on brain function.

In fact, it is scientifically proven.

 

We don't have to label infidelity 'abuse'.

But there is no denying both share similar patterns and both produce trauma.

 

It is also proven that a significant percentage of all military and/or law enforcement personnel, do not end up with any PTSD or depression, despite repeated and prolonged exposure to extremely traumatic events.

 

Unbroken: what makes some people more resilient than others? - The Guardian

 

Researchers believe that understanding this resilience is vital to improving the treatment of PTSD. “Some people have this ability to keep going, maintain relationships, hold a job down and not give up even though they may be overwhelmed with emotion,” says Kerry Ressler, professor of psychiatry and behavioural sciences at Emory University School of Medicine.

 

...

 

The extent to which different people can move on and then confront similar traumas in the future is linked to their upbringing and character. “I think personality plays a substantial role in resilience,” says Steven Southwick, professor of psychiatry at the Yale School of Medicine and author of the book, Resilience: The Science of Mastering Life’s Greatest Challenges. “Zamperini was defiant, a risk-taker and people who are like that, people who are optimists, tend to be more resilient, and there’s a genetic component in those traits.”

 

The Science of Resilience - The Huffington Post

 

For nearly twenty years my colleagues and I studied post-traumatic stress disorder and the profound negative psychological, social, and neurobiological impact of traumas such as child abuse, natural disasters, physical and sexual abuse, and combat. We often wondered why some survivors succeeded in overcoming adversity, bouncing back, and continuing on with purposeful lives, while others didn’t. Some individuals were clearly more resilient than others.

 

The American Psychological Association defines resilience as “the process of adapting well in the face of adversity, trauma, tragedy, threats or even significant sources of threat.”

 

...

 

When we began our study, we assumed that resilience was rare and resilient people were somehow special, perhaps genetically gifted. It turns out, we were wrong. Resilience is common and can be witnessed all around us.

 

PTSD: Do most people get it after terrifying incidents? - BBC Future

 

PTSD studies should focus on soldiers 'immune' to it as well as those afflicted - Toronto SUN

 

PTSD: Can Genetics Affect Your Risk? - The Huffington Post

 

Why some soldiers develop PTSD while others don't - Science Daily

 

Genetics of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder: Review and Recommendations for Genome-Wide Association Studies - US National Library of Medicine

 

Genetics of posttraumatic stress disorder - Wikipedia

 

Risk or resilience: the genetics of PTSD - Broadminded Blog

 

The fundamental question at the heart of my research is why, given the same trauma, do some people recover while others get PTSD? Even in the case of severe traumas—such as being a prisoner of war or a rape victim—a large proportion of those exposed don’t develop the disorder. I believe genes are one factor that contributes to this risk or resilience.

 

I am surprised by some of the push back regarding calling those who are resistant to the effects of trauma, resilient.

 

If someone bounces back quite easily regardless of whatever happens to them, they are evidently more resilient than someone who instead struggles to recover.

 

At the end of the day since more people are resilient than not, as a consequence of that more people are likely to dismiss the idea that infidelity is abuse.

[5x5]

Look...I get that your wife's cheating ran off you like water off a ducks back. I get it. That's how you handled it, but to sit thee and judge other bs who were harder hot, that's really difficult to swallow.

 

There is no judgement, if in doubt please reread my posts. All I am saying is that some people are more resilient than others. As I have said before neither are better than the other, they are just different.

 

If you feel judged I encourage you to look within, in order to figure out why you feel that way.

 

I'm a military spouse, and that means there are months when I might as well be a single parent to three kids, all of when have varying degrees of developmental and health issues.

 

I know what being a military spouse means, as a former Army NCO I have had two of those myself.

 

Of which the first one played the not uncommon military spouse game of OMO laundry detergent. In other words she availed herself of another man while her Old Man (was) Out. Yet I still don't think what she did, ever came close to being abuse.

 

We had health issues with our oldest child (many trips to emergency) when I was often away for weeks through many months at a time. Fortunately for my wife and I, we haven't had to deal with developmental issues on top of health ones. While we are lucky that those health issues are now no longer a problem at all.

 

That said one of the best things I did for my current marriage and relationship with my wife and children. Was leaving the Army not very far into the 5th year, of our now almost 18 year marriage back in 2004.

 

Likewise outside of my former-school friends, the majority of my friends are still serving military or ex-military and their respective spouses.

 

Plus I come from a multi generational family of many military and or emergency service personnel. So military spouses have been very common in my life.

 

Some of my friends who were in or are in infantry or special forces with multiple deployments, do suffer from combat related PTSD.

 

While one of my great-grandfathers who survived World War I as a frontline Infantry Sergeant also suffered what is now called PTSD. My other 3 Great-Grandfathers also served in that war, two of whom were wounded in action (one lost a leg the other was gassed), yet none of them seemed to have any notable psychological issues with their experiences.

 

None of my other relatives who have experienced combat in various conflicts and other mortal danger (both men and women) who survived, as far as I am aware have ever suffered from PTSD.

 

I also have a friend and former colleague with multiple sharp end infantry and SF deployments. Who suffers from PTSD like symptoms as a consequence of brain damage caused by having to take Mefloquine while he was deployed.

 

That said of my friends who have served overseas at the sharp end in combat, or have experienced mortal danger outside of that and all the rest. The majority of them haven't been afflicted with depression or PTSD.

 

Which reflects the literature, that says most people are more resilient than not.

 

That's only a part of what I, as a bs, have been through. I am still standing.

 

Good for you, I am glad you're fine as am I.

 

Not emotionally resilient? I you can say that about men and women who have been through some very awful experiences and still come out the other side, then I can't understand your view at all

 

At no point have I claimed that you weren't resilient.

 

At the end of the day, if someone has some very awful experiences. Yet they come out of it feeling perfectly fine, then they are evidently resilient.

 

Just as those who aren't fine after such experiences, are evidently less resilient than those who are.

[lionlover1973]

It is also proven that a significant percentage of all military and/or law enforcement personnel, do not end up with any PTSD or depression, despite repeated and prolonged exposure to extremely traumatic events.

 

True.

But, that is not what my comment(s) suggested.

 

An individual may be resilient with respect to some kinds of stressors but not to others.

So, it is not a matter of 'emotional resilience' as a collective.

 

The

, for example, examines the effects of exposure to traumatic events:

"The experiment's results favor situational attribution of behavior over dispositional attribution".

 

Resilience in the capacity of a betrayed individual is the ability to overlook what should have been and accept what is. Since healing from infidelity is a process, I do not believe it is accurate to suggest that an individual is not resilient with respect to their recovery process. Just because you (or anyone else for that matter) is able to sweep certain actions under the rug, doesn't make you any more resilient. Responses to trauma are not determined by you yourself, rather, they are determined by a multiple dynamic.

 

Steel is resilient.

Yet, it too has a yield point.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Yep.

 

Deceit is hardly abuse.

 

 

 

Someone who evidently can't cope with trauma without needing help via self medication or professional help.

 

Some people really do cope with such experiences quite easily, those people are evidently emotionally resilient.

 

Interesting that this definition of emotionl resiliency (acknowledging needing help) , goes against a trait of emotional resiliency....knowing when to reach out, self-care via good habits. Acceptance. Self-awareness. Understanding that the stress/trauma does not or will not be their permanent identity. Not becoming an emotional glacier.

 

Emotional resilient people are more likely to feel/delve deeper into how they feel and why. They allow themselves to feel the emotions. They are more likely to process emotional injuries more fully...so they are not left simmering on the back burner. They move on when they have processed. They learn to not let injuries define them (ie. All men are cheaters so I will never trust again).

 

Resiliency is not about how deeply one feels pain.....it is about how one lives their life AFTER one has had time to process.

 

How much time one needs to process depends on how much experience one has on having to process injuries/trauma..,etc.

 

Emotional resiliency is not measured by comparing oneself against another. (See...I am resilient and they are not because I kicked that SOB out day 1 and got myself a pedicure.)

 

It is measured by hindsight. Not in the present. We all have rough days, weeks, months. It is measured by the sum of our reactions/responses to emotional injury....not by a single tear.

[wmacbride]

There is no judgement, if in doubt please reread my posts. All I am saying is that some people are more resilient than others. As I have said before neither are better than the other, they are just different.

 

If you feel judged I encourage you to look within, in order to figure out why you feel that way.

 

 

 

I know what being a military spouse means, as a former Army NCO I have had two of those myself.

 

Of which the first one played the not uncommon military spouse game of OMO laundry detergent. In other words she availed herself of another man while her Old Man (was) Out. Yet I still don't think what she did, ever came close to being abuse.

 

We had health issues with our oldest child (many trips to emergency) when I was often away for weeks through many months at a time. Fortunately for my wife and I, we haven't had to deal with developmental issues on top of health ones. While we are lucky that those health issues are now no longer a problem at all.

 

That said one of the best things I did for my current marriage and relationship with my wife and children. Was leaving the Army not very far into the 5th year, of our now almost 18 year marriage back in 2004.

 

Likewise outside of my former-school friends, the majority of my friends are still serving military or ex-military and their respective spouses.

 

Plus I come from a multi generational family of many military and or emergency service personnel. So military spouses have been very common in my life.

 

Some of my friends who were in or are in infantry or special forces with multiple deployments, do suffer from combat related PTSD.

 

While one of my great-grandfathers who survived World War I as a frontline Infantry Sergeant also suffered what is now called PTSD. My other 3 Great-Grandfathers also served in that war, two of whom were wounded in action (one lost a leg the other was gassed), yet none of them seemed to have any notable psychological issues with their experiences.

 

None of my other relatives who have experienced combat in various conflicts and other mortal danger (both men and women) who survived, as far as I am aware have ever suffered from PTSD.

 

I also have a friend and former colleague with multiple sharp end infantry and SF deployments. Who suffers from PTSD like symptoms as a consequence of brain damage caused by having to take Mefloquine while he was deployed.

 

That said of my friends who have served overseas at the sharp end in combat, or have experienced mortal danger outside of that and all the rest. The majority of them haven't been afflicted with depression or PTSD.

 

Which reflects the literature, that says most people are more resilient than not.

 

 

 

Good for you, I am glad you're fine as am I.

 

 

 

At no point have I claimed that you weren't resilient.

 

At the end of the day, if someone has some very awful experiences. Yet they come out of it feeling perfectly fine, then they are evidently resilient.

 

Just as those who aren't fine after such experiences, are evidently less resilient than those who are.

 

You may be a military member. You have zero understanding of what it's like to be a military spouse, and please don't pretend you do.

 

I'm sorry your wife put the Tide in her window.

[5x5]

Emotional resilient people are more likely to feel/delve deeper into how they feel and why. They allow themselves to feel the emotions. They are more likely to process emotional injuries more fully...so they are not left simmering on the back burner. They move on when they have processed. They learn to not let injuries define them (ie. All men are cheaters so I will never trust again).

 

Resiliency is not about how deeply one feels pain.....it is about how one lives their life AFTER one has had time to process.

 

 

How much time one needs to process depends on how much experience one has on having to process injuries/trauma..,etc.

 

That's how it works in my experience. Whenever I experience bad things I think about it, talk about it, process it and then let the hurt go.

[5x5]

You may be a military member. You have zero understanding of what it's like to be a military spouse, and please don't pretend you do.

 

I'm sorry your wife put the Tide in her window.

 

You may be a military spouse. Yet you have zero understanding of what it's like to have resilience to PTSD and depression despite mortal threat, so please don't pretend you do.

 

That said either you're having some trouble with reading and comprehension, or my written words are instead unintelligible. Whichever it is, this may be why you take issue with what I have written. While also misrepresenting my statements and often arguing against claims that I have not made.

 

Since you seem to keep getting the following amongst other things wrong. I offer the following statements, in order to help clarify some of your misrepresentations.

 

I am not a military member and have never claimed to be one on these forums. Since I left the Army in 2004 (which predates my participation in these forums), which means I am a former Defence Force Member.

 

As far as I am aware my wife has never cheated on me. It is my ex-wife that cheated on me, which is why she became my ex-wife.

 

Likewise I'm sorry your husband chose to cheat on you.

[cocorico]

Do you feel infidelity is a form of abuse?

 

 

No. I think it can co-occur with abuse, but in and of itself, it not be abusive.

 

Why are some willing to look the other way or even feel this is acceptable?

 

Perhaps because of circumstances? If the infidelity is taking place within a marriage / LTR that is a sham, where neither party considers the M / R to be functional, why should anyone else attach more weight to it than the participants? Or, if the BS is abusive, or has a history of infidelity themselves, it's likely others will feel less disturbed by the infidelity than if the BS was an "innocent" party.

 

Or, if it's the cultural norm, and common practice, no one will get exercised about it and will feel that the BS should have known what was part of the deal in getting M.

 

There are many possible reasons.

[5x5]

Just because you (or anyone else for that matter) is able to sweep certain actions under the rug, doesn't make you any more resilient.

 

I've never been inclined to sweep anything under the rug, and nor have I. Sweeping things under the rug and failing to address them head on seems like a fools errand to me.

 

Pretending that things don't make one feel upset, uncomfortable, angry, frightened, horrified and more isn't being emotionally resilient.

 

In my experience talking about such things at length after the fact in a very open way about how one feels, amongst other things that help goes a very long way.

 

Steel is resilient.

Yet, it too has a yield point.

 

I've always thought being strong like steel is the antithesis of being resilient. To be like steel is to be brittle and easily shattered. Whereas I've always thought effective resilience requires one to yield and bend quite readily as required, in order to easily go with the flow and get on with life.

 

Resistance as required in the face of immediate threats, ought to never be confused with resilience after the fact which comes form understanding and acceptance through the process of getting on.

[lionlover1973]

To be like steel is to be brittle and easily shattered.

 

Whereas I've always thought effective resilience requires one to yield and bend quite readily as required, in order to easily go with the flow and get on with life.

 

Steel is inherently resilient, I believe.

 

As it relates to betrayal and/or abuse -

How does one 'yield' 'bend' on command?

 

Emotional resilience is a multidimensional model. The length of an individual's recovery process is not easily quantified. One can't 'readily' rebuild a stack of fallen cards with the snap of a finger.

 

I do believe people can learn to become more resilient. The path to resilience, however, appears to involve substantial emotional distress.