Standoffish Women, very difficult to read?

[CaliforniaGirl]

I really don't have much advice. One thing about "giving up the goodies," is that men simply don't call again. You think it's all great, the feeling is mutual, and then he's gone. It makes it very difficult to judge when or if you should allow sex or making out or how much affection to allow or give.

 

Some people are just not touchy. They have their little space bubble, and they do not like their little bubble invaded, and worse when such touching comes from a male who could be on the path to a one-night-stand.

 

I love affection. The best dates I've been on have started with a hug. There's touching while talking, nothing along the lines of fondling. There may be hand holding later on. A hug, a kiss, maybe a good make-out session. I am all over this affection. This is when it's a seemingly mutual long-term potential type of situation. If the guy comes across as a playboy, who's shmoozing, and looking to get laid, well, that's quite a turn-off, and I certainly don't want to lead him on if I'm not interested in him.

 

I think I have to agree with some other posters, that between nerves and insecurity, and shyness, you might expect more closed-off body language on the first date, but this should improve over time, especially when you're talking or texting also during the week. If by date three? I don't know. Maybe best to move on. You seem to want someone more open to affection, and it's just not a compatible pairing whey they exhibit nothing.

 

The extreme closed-off body language you describe makes me wonder if you tend to migrate towards shy, church mouses.

 

I can also imagine many women see this forward behavior as sexual advances, which they are to a degree. Is this OLD, and do you ever discuss affection with these women and they you, while you're texting? I have had men tell me they they are this way, and I can only imagine the reason they feel the need to plop this on the table is because women have scurried away in the past.

 

It simply doesn't bother me, I enjoy it. Other women feel differently. I don't know that you're doing anything wrong, really.

 

I wouldn't have seen anything wrong with it either if she hadn't been starting with, then continuing with very closed body language.

 

That's a clear signal. And he saw it, or he wouldn't be mentioning it, many times, on here.

 

He saw a "no" and went pushing ahead with his hand anyway.

 

Everybody's different. And every association is different. As you explained above, Act, even you, who are rather physically affectionate overall, pull back if you're not feeling it. This girl clearly wasn't feeling it. The OP keeps mentioning that she didn't expressly pull back or whatever. If she sat there frozen, it could be she didn't want the touch (CLEAR from her lack of receptive body language) but had no clue what to do to express that without making him angry/making him run away, so she sat there frozen.

 

To me all this IS NOT a green light to keep innocently rubbing and "tapping" someone's thighs.

 

When I really enjoyed my date, IF he wasn't slobbering or predatory about it AND if I was fully feeling it and feeling a sense of trust then I LOVED small touches, really not on the legs but on the back...small of the back to lead me to my seat, leaning in, maybe knees brushing once and not aggressively...then I was all for it. But if I was acting closed off then I didn't want to be touched. Doesn't matter why. I am not sure why, to some people, no means no and to others, no means "she doesn't know what she really wants, but I do because I've read all about it on the internet, so I'm going to physically push."

[coolheadal]

Today's new word is??? Just say the word "NEXT' Now move on to the "NEXT"

 

 

Listen women are going to act as they please, you like me the man has to either tolerate their odd behavior or not. Best to say the word "NEXT" as the "NEXT"we hope will not be the way you had your last one with.

 

If it was me I wouldn't even bother with tight lips, do you really want a woman like that? I sure don't "NEXT"! LOL

[angel.eyes]

Taping someone on the thigh to emphasize a conversational point is not the same as "crawling up a thigh." She actually didn't seemingly react positively or negatively to any sort of touch. It didn't alter her behavior at all, which makes me think she is 1. Not a touchy-feely person 2. Probably on the shy side 3. She is admittedly a very straight-laced, play by the rules type of gal

 

Why would she agree to a third date if I was creeping her out? Why would she initiate contact after the second date?

Why didn't you tap her on her forearm or hand to emphasize your point? Why are you up the thigh of someone you barely know?

 

Cali is spot on in her analysis.

[ExposedBrick]

I really don't have much advice. One thing about "giving up the goodies," is that men simply don't call again. You think it's all great, the feeling is mutual, and then he's gone. It makes it very difficult to judge when or if you should allow sex or making out or how much affection to allow or give.

 

Some people are just not touchy. They have their little space bubble, and they do not like their little bubble invaded, and worse when such touching comes from a male who could be on the path to a one-night-stand.

 

I love affection. The best dates I've been on have started with a hug. There's touching while talking, nothing along the lines of fondling. There may be hand holding later on. A hug, a kiss, maybe a good make-out session. I am all over this affection. This is when it's a seemingly mutual long-term potential type of situation. If the guy comes across as a playboy, who's shmoozing, and looking to get laid, well, that's quite a turn-off, and I certainly don't want to lead him on if I'm not interested in him.

 

I think I have to agree with some other posters, that between nerves and insecurity, and shyness, you might expect more closed-off body language on the first date, but this should improve over time, especially when you're talking or texting also during the week. If by date three? I don't know. Maybe best to move on. You seem to want someone more open to affection, and it's just not a compatible pairing whey they exhibit nothing.

 

The extreme closed-off body language you describe makes me wonder if you tend to migrate towards shy, church mouses.

 

I can also imagine many women see this forward behavior as sexual advances, which they are to a degree. Is this OLD, and do you ever discuss affection with these women and they you, while you're texting? I have had men tell me they they are this way, and I can only imagine the reason they feel the need to plop this on the table is because women have scurried away in the past.

 

It simply doesn't bother me, I enjoy it. Other women feel differently. I don't know that you're doing anything wrong, really.

 

I guess there is a spectrum of affection. The last woman I dated for few months was very affectionate, totally at the opposite side of the spectrum. Another woman I dated started off cold and distant but after a few dates I lightly teased her about it and she relaxed and slowly became more affectionate.

 

Maybe it means nothing. Maybe she just wants to take it slow.

[starrynight4321]

I know that this post is a bit old at this point, but I stumbled upon it and wanted to throw in my 2 cents. It may come across as harsh, but I do believe it's accurate and that you might need to hear it.

 

You read this situation completely, and utterly wrong. I think this girl may have been out of your league and you know it. Sorry, that's my perception.

 

1. You're insecure, lacking in self-awareness, and projecting all of this on to the woman in question. You even say yourself that "there must a reason she's single." Really? What does that say about your own opinion of yourself? Is it not necessary for two people to be single in order for them to be dating/possibly enter a relationship? Your thinking is totally off/warped. Being single is not in and of itself evidence of having a flaw. You must, on some level, be telling yourself that something is wrong with you (and hence you're single) and you're projecting that onto other people. You say this girl is socially awkward, yet many of your past posts and this one seem to indicate that this may actually be something you struggle with yourself.

 

2. For someone who apparently dates a lot, you do not really seem to have even a moderate grasp of women. Know the type of woman you're pursuing. If you want to hook up and nothing more, and she does too, the physical affection is going to be quick and strong. If you want something serious and so does she, the physical aspect may be a little more restrained - and moreso with some women than others. Maybe not at all - it's possible. That comes down to personality, preference, etc. But 2 dates with physical restraint is not a red flag. You need to understand women in order to successfully date them. A woman who knows what she's looking for is far more likely to have somewhat of a guard up/be a little restrained early on - why? BECAUSE she wants to figure out whether you're the real deal, or just trying to get into her pants. You also mentioned that she was very attractive - do you think a very attractive girl has to go out with any guy, or has to open up any more than she feels comfortable? No. She has options. She's attractive - lots of guys want to date her, she probably gets hit on ALL the time - even more reason that she has to have a guard up if she does not want to end up with a string of dudes that just want sex (assuming that's not what she wanted). What you experienced isn't a lack of interest, or a disinclination to be touchy-feely. What you experienced is a high-value woman operating as such, trying to figure you out before letting you get closer.

 

It is possible (though very, extremely unlikely), that this girl is just a physically restrained person period. The 99.9% likelihood here though, is that she is just feeling you out before she opens up a bit. I mean - it is only TWO DATES. Two dates is NOT enough to determine whether the physically restrained behavior is merely a temporary safeguard OR a personality characteristic/flaw. If you cannot even weather through 2 dates without overanalyzing a lack of physical contact, then I do not think you're really ready for anything more than casual sex/multidating indefinitely.

 

When you overanalyze to this extent this early, you're self-sabotoging. You should be more focused on creating a mental connection so that the physical connection will come naturally. You're forcing it.

 

Moreover - what about the conversation here? If she seemed to be enjoying your company and the conversation - this is even more indication that your analysis is totally wrong. Something about this girl intimidated you - that's my read. So, you pick on this "physically restrained," bit and sabotage from there!

 

At the same time, as I read some of your past threads, I get the sense that you think you want a relationship. However, it appears that any time you meet a girl that you like, you find any reason to criticize and find a problem leading to the demise of that situation. You're using multi dating as a crutch - anytime it's not perfect - it's ok, you can bail - because you have 5 other women in rotation, right? Well, let me tell you - if you keep dating like a 21 year old boy, you will remain a single 21 year old boy well into your 30s and 40s. Based on your posts, it doesn't really seem like this is making you happy anyways.

 

Dating is a "numbers game," but a relationship is an investment. If you're just looking for superficial hook ups and fun dates that lead nowhere, keep going. If you really want something meaningful - then multi dating is fine - but at some point you have to cut down your pool and actually invest time and energy into getting to know these people you're dating instead of jumping the gun before you even really know anything about the person. Otherwise, it's just going to be an endless carousel of women. Again, I think you do this out of insecurity, maybe a bad past relationship, and a poor understanding of what YOU want, as well as what women want.

 

Lastly, what happened on that second date? Seven hours? I have a hard time believing either of you had a bad time if the date lasted that long. At the same time, it makes me wonder what you did on that date? A play or event of some sort? Was there sufficient opportunity to actually TALK? If you went to some kind of show, I'd assume you'd have minimal time for talk before the show, and maybe during an intermission. Again, this is your social awkwardness - your first few dates should really give you an opportunity to TALK and get to know the person, rather than to sit with them in silence for hours. Did this girl even have much of an opportunity to become more comfortable around you or learn much more about you? I'm leaning towards no.

 

I wonder what happened with this woman, although my assessment of you leads me to believe that you've probably already sabotaged this situation and moved on.