Need framework to evaluate past choice between ex-wife and former affair partner

March 24, 2017

Hi, first time poster here. Have searched this and other forums but haven't been able to find any advice that fits my specific situation so am seeking your collective wisdom.

The issue that I need help with is that I had an A a few years ago and ended up leaving my (now ex-) W for the OW but have been agonizing over my decision ever since. I was torn between my W and the OW right from the start so there was a lot of back-and-forth before I ended up moving out. I've kept in constant contact with my ex throughout though and am still second-guessing my decision to leave.

I've seen a few posts mentioning WS' in my predicament but haven't been able to find any actually started by others in my situation or any advice specifically directed at them, so am reaching out to see if anyone can give advice to help me think this through.

Any tools, techniques or resources that I can use as a framework to weigh my choices and come to a final resolution? Have tried a few individual therapy sessions, made the pros & cons list and spent literally thousands of hours thinking about both relationships, all to no avail. I recognize that ultimately I need to make a final decision and move on one way or another, and that in the meantime I'm damaging both relationships, but just haven't been able to find that moment of clarity.

Please help so that I can finally stop living in this state of limbo!

March 25, 2017

You're completely wrong.

It's not a choice between two people.

You need to make the choice if you want to work on your marriage or not DESPITE the OW.

If you are ready to walk away from your marriage and be alone. Completely alone. Then leave.

If you aren't ready to leave UNLESS you have someone to leave with, then you aren't leaving the right way and you will most likely always have regrets and "what ifs"

The OW isn't your soul mate. She's just another relationship that's in the beginning stages, that could work or couldn't. Are you willing to give up your wife, family, house, money etc for something that you cant be sure will work?

If no, then you need to get our **** together and get into counseling with your wife, dump the OW and see if you can fix your marriage. Maybe you can't, but at least you can say you left it knowing you tried and there was no one else involved in your decision.

March 25, 2017

Please don't even think about asking for your wife's forgiveness and grace to allow you back into her life as a husband until YOU have done the work on yourself to figure out why YOU acted the way you did in the first place.

this is not a game, and you have hurt your wife deeply. You should think you can just walk back into her life, and the fact that you think you can shows you are not ready to be there for her.

There is a reason you can't find this "framework" you are looking for. It's because many bs, especially one's in your wife's position. may not be interested in getting back together.

To sum it up...you made your choice, now either be with your ow or be on your own. Don't think you can just waltz back into your wife's life and expect her to be happy you picked her.

March 25, 2017

Good morning,

A moderated post brought me here and I did a review of the content and moved the thread to GRD since there's no infidelity, the thread starter is divorced and apparently still involved with their former affair partner.

The topic is:

Any tools, techniques or resources that I can use as a framework to weigh my choices and come to a final resolution? Have tried a few individual therapy sessions, made the pros & cons list and spent literally thousands of hours thinking about both relationships, all to no avail. I recognize that ultimately I need to make a final decision and move on one way or another, and that in the meantime I'm damaging both relationships, but just haven't been able to find that moment of clarity.

I give BOTD on the currently published responses but moving forward there will be no infidelity rhetoric dispensed or rehashing and speculation of the past, rather an addressing of the topic as stated. I'll edit the title for clarity.

ETA, I just checked and the topic starter logged out immediately after posting this so offer that for consideration as well, for any contemplating the tough love path. Thanks!

Edited March 25, 2017 by William

March 25, 2017

You are going to get very little sympathy for your "plight."

However, I'll answer your question. Because if you truly are in a place where you can choose between two women in spite of stringing them along, then that's your and their business...not mine.

Two books:

When Good People Have Affairs - this one actually discusses choosing between your spouse and AP

Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay - this helps you to evaluate your relationship using a series of criteria, rather than just making a pros and cons list. You could apply it to both your wife and AP.

Good luck.

March 25, 2017

Welcome to LS...

How long have you been divorced?

Are you still in contact with your ex-wife? Co-parent children?

Resolving emotional attachments can be difficult. It all depends on the nature of the attachment and one's personal psyche and brain chemistry. Some people can process things out and move on easier than others.

What kind of therapy have you tried? Did the therapy involve a psychologist who specializes in affairs/infidelity? The clinician we used helped me greatly in getting to acceptance, both of responsibility for my own actions, as well as accepting feelings and decisions and results.

Do you live now with your ex-affair partner? How's that going?

March 25, 2017

OP,

When people say they are "torn between two lovers" and don't know who to choose I always say this - they don't really want either of them.

Because if you truly love someone and really want to be with them then you would move Heaven & Earth to do just that.

I think you just fell between two stools and are grasping at straws because you don't want to be alone.

Why don't you do both women a favour? Take your self off somewhere and get your $h!£ together to make yourself better partner material for your next relationship.

March 25, 2017

What makes you think that your wife would take you back? If my husband had an affair and chose another woman over me, that door would be closed - forever.

March 25, 2017

You'll probably ignore my advice, but I think you should be alone and work on yourself for awhile. Good luck in whatever you choose and I hope you will come back and update.

March 25, 2017

@William: Thabks for clarifying the intent of my post and apologies for logging out right after posting – I'm new to this forum and that was inadvertent

March 25, 2017

@carhill: Thanks for the thoughtful response. I'm fairly recently divorced but moved out well over a year ago. Am still in regular contact with my ex, no children involved, fortunately.

I have tried a couple of psychologists who specialize in affairs/relationships but both jumped right to a solution after just one session, and their recommendations were completely at opposite ends of the spectrum (one strongly hinted that I go back to my at the time W and the other one said to move on and let her go). Maybe I just haven't found the right therapist.

Am currently living with my ex-AP and we have a really great relationship. I feel like the only thing holding me back from feeling completely fulfilled/happy is that I have this strong emotional connection with my ex-W and can't let go of that relationship. Apart from obviously having the A in the first place and all of the terrible insensitive stuff that I acknowledge goes with that, I have tried to take care of her as much as I'm able and I know that she still loves me and wants me back because she's told me as much.

@Others: Thanks for your replies as well. I completely acknowledge that I need to get my **** together, which is exactly why I reached out through the forum for help/advice on how to approach this.

March 25, 2017

Have you tried reading some thoughts at affair-recovery.com?

Some of their writings have helped me deal with my wife's A.

You do need to make a choice and not be in the middle.

what would you do if your AP had an A on you? Or your ex found someone new?

Figure out what you want and then go N/C with the other.

Hope your ex W finds some peace. Tough to go thru a spouse having an A.

You thought that this was the one person that would not hurt you and had your back. Think about their pain.

March 25, 2017

If there are no children involved please let your ex wife move on with her life. You blew up her world by leaving her for the OW so you must have been in love with her. Let your wife move on to another man and you stay with the woman you chose. After all it isn't about just what will make you happier your wife deserves happiness too and since you and the OW have caused her so much pain; leave her alone now and let her heal. You and OW deserve each other.

Edited March 25, 2017 by stillafool

March 25, 2017

If you are divorced and living on your own that means you are single man and can date and hook up with whoever, whenever and wherever you want.

As long as you are open everyone that you are not exclusive, then it is all fair game and either woman can choose to date/hook up with you or not.

If they don't want to date a man that is not exclusive with them, that is their prerogative.

If they each know that you are not exclusive with them and continue to see, that is also their prerogative and on them.

As the Moderator William noted earlier in the thread, this is not infidelity. This is single adults dating/hooking up.

If you are lying to one of both of them, then you are kind of jerk and deserve whatever happens to you. But if you are open and upfront that you are multi-dating and not exclusive with anyone, then it is on them whether they want to continue seeing you or not.

Eventually one will probably take herself out of the equation and decide for you.

March 26, 2017

If you are divorced and living on your own that means you are single man and can date and hook up with whoever, whenever and wherever you want.

As long as you are open everyone that you are not exclusive, then it is all fair game and either woman can choose to date/hook up with you or not.

(Bolded) but he's not - he's living with his GF:

Am currently living with my ex-AP and we have a really great relationship.

Conflicted: Does your GF know you're still in regular contact with your xW, carrying a candle for and "taking care of her", and if so how does she feel about that?

I'm assuming your xW knows you're living with your GF, and that you have a "great R" with your GF.

From what you've described, it seems you are still living out he infidelity scenario - you've just flipped each partner's role, so that your xW is now the OW and your GF is now the BS. That doesn't sound so "great" for anyone

March 26, 2017

Conflicted: Does your GF know you're still in regular contact with your xW, carrying a candle for and "taking care of her", and if so how does she feel about that?

I'm assuming your xW knows you're living with your GF, and that you have a "great R" with your GF.

From what you've described, it seems you are still living out he infidelity scenario - you've just flipped each partner's role, so that your xW is now the OW and your GF is now the BS. That doesn't sound so "great" for anyone

Great insight. It does feel in many ways like I'm still living out the infertility scenario with the partners' roles switched. My xW knows that I'm living with my GF, while my GF does know that I'm still in contact with my xW. Understandably this upsets her, so I can't text/email in her company. It IS a lot like I'm having an A with my xW. Obviously not fair to either woman and something that is going to poison the new relationship too if I can't figure this out...

March 26, 2017

Yeah, I missed the part about him living with GF.

My advice is move out, get a place of your own and start dating like a single man.

Everything will then settle into place.

March 27, 2017

Great insight. It does feel in many ways like I'm still living out the infertility scenario with the partners' roles switched. My xW knows that I'm living with my GF, while my GF does know that I'm still in contact with my xW. Understandably this upsets her, so I can't text/email in her company. It IS a lot like I'm having an A with my xW. Obviously not fair to either woman and something that is going to poison the new relationship too if I can't figure this out...

Conflicted, I too had an affair, we were both married, and divorced and started dating each other (and eventually married).

First off, I would suggest an IC to just focus on you and a CC for your new relationship (if you want to continue it). You need to really look at why you were in an affair, the slippery slopes that got you there, and what changes you should make. First off, stop hiding/lying/etc! That is what got you into this mess. Be upfront with your girlfriend and if you can't then you need to look at why that is.

I would suggest you spend some time alone, living alone. You need to work on you, why divorcing was the right decision (if it was) and work through the end of your marriage. Jumping from woman to woman is not focusing on the common denominator and the reason for all of this - you.

Another poster gave some great book suggestions, but find a IC that will hold you accountable and start owning your sh&t. Work on being authentic because that will honestly be the happiest for your state of mind as well.

One question thinking about it, are you afraid to be alone?

March 27, 2017

First off, I would suggest an IC to just focus on you and a CC for your new relationship (if you want to continue it). You need to really look at why you were in an affair, the slippery slopes that got you there, and what changes you should make. First off, stop hiding/lying/etc! That is what got you into this mess. Be upfront with your girlfriend and if you can't then you need to look at why that is.

I would suggest you spend some time alone, living alone. You need to work on you, why divorcing was the right decision (if it was) and work through the end of your marriage. Jumping from woman to woman is not focusing on the common denominator and the reason for all of this - you.

Another poster gave some great book suggestions, but find a IC that will hold you accountable and start owning your sh&t. Work on being authentic because that will honestly be the happiest for your state of mind as well.

One question thinking about it, are you afraid to be alone?

Thanks, this is all great advice. I'm looking at getting one or both of those books and have set up another IC session with a different therapist who specializes in marriage/divorce.

Regarding the spending some time alone thing: I did try that a few times but kept getting drawn back into both relationships. I'm not the sort of person who is unhappy by myself or feels that they need to be in a relationship to be fulfilled; it was more that I care about both partners and didn't want to loose either of them forever. But I guess I do need to spend more time exploring my reasons for getting pulled back in after no more than a few weeks each time.

March 28, 2017

Thanks, this is all great advice. I'm looking at getting one or both of those books and have set up another IC session with a different therapist who specializes in marriage/divorce.

Regarding the spending some time alone thing: I did try that a few times but kept getting drawn back into both relationships. I'm not the sort of person who is unhappy by myself or feels that they need to be in a relationship to be fulfilled; it was more that I care about both partners and didn't want to loose either of them forever. But I guess I do need to spend more time exploring my reasons for getting pulled back in after no more than a few weeks each time.

I would question that is more about not actually wanting to be alone. You need to work on you, who you are, and not as the extension of someone else. You write in a very passive tense, that you are being "drawn in" that you "found yourself", "pulled in" etc. This is saying that things are happening to you with no foresight. This is not true. You are the controller here, you have to own these decisions, fears, desires, etc. You are not being drawn in, you are seeking out. Also really focus on that if you care about these ladies than their happiness is important. So jerking them around as you ping pong through life is the antithesis of caring about them. Caring about them means prioritizing, doing what is right for their happiness/well being/mental and emotional make up/etc. This means letting go to do the right thing for said person. Please look into whether you care about them or care more about yourself.

And then, once you are in a relationship, I highly recommend the Gottman Institute to focus on how to best be in a relationship.

March 29, 2017

Also really focus on that if you care about these ladies than their happiness is important. So jerking them around as you ping pong through life is the antithesis of caring about them. Caring about them means prioritizing, doing what is right for their happiness/well being/mental and emotional make up/etc. This means letting go to do the right thing for said person. Please look into whether you care about them or care more about yourself.

This is one of the things I have really struggled with... much of the advice I've read/heard starts with figuring out what makes me happy and what I want, which seems to imply ignoring the needs/wants of either partner as part of the equation. I do get that by resolving this and letting go of one of the partners and fully committing to the other will ultimately help both though, which is why I'm trying to work through this. The other struggle that I'm facing is that having left my xW, I'm missing aspects of that relationship that would never necessarily have been on my relationship "wish list" so I'm questioning whether what I really want from a relationship is what I always thought I wanted in the first place...

March 30, 2017

This is one of the things I have really struggled with... much of the advice I've read/heard starts with figuring out what makes me happy and what I want, which seems to imply ignoring the needs/wants of either partner as part of the equation. I do get that by resolving this and letting go of one of the partners and fully committing to the other will ultimately help both though, which is why I'm trying to work through this. The other struggle that I'm facing is that having left my xW, I'm missing aspects of that relationship that would never necessarily have been on my relationship "wish list" so I'm questioning whether what I really want from a relationship is what I always thought I wanted in the first place...

Which means that since you don't know yourself you cannot be a good partner to either woman. So this is where the alone time comes into play. Now this doesn't mean you have to go completely no communication but you need to learn to just focus on getting to know yourself. This may mean losing both women but the triangle you seem to be most comfortable in is not what either woman wants.

Or you come clean with both and suggest a triangular relationship where both ladies sign off on and seemingly meets all of your needs.

But I think you are a grass is greener type and want whatever you think you don't have/have less of.

Therapy my friend.

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Need framework to evaluate past choice between ex-wife and former affair partner

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