Lights Posted July 27, 2005 Posted July 27, 2005 What is a good way to gain real confidence in one's dating life when one doesn't have the advantage of a long-standing track record of success, and when nothing one knows of seems to work? More specifically, I mean how to gain real confidence wherein one has a genuine feeling of ability to do social and dating-related things with a reasonable expectation that it will be successful--I don't mean merely cheap feel-good psych-up tricks or weak fakery that falls apart once one's guard is down. I'm stuck in a circular trap here because purportedly confidence is important for success in one's dating life, but how does one become confident without the success in the first place? Please help--I am hurting a lot.
Zephyr45 Posted July 27, 2005 Posted July 27, 2005 how does one become confident without the success in the first place? By faking it as best you can and failing over and over until you finally start to succeed.
JanieQP Posted July 27, 2005 Posted July 27, 2005 Faking didn't work for me. I can't claim to have 'arrived' - at all. But what has helped me to progress a LOT has been to take lots of steps in non-dating areas. I've taken several communication courses and seminars that most directly helped with work things, but they introduced me to books that helped me in my personal life. I've pursued hobbies in that put me in situations that are social but task-oriented (swim club, dance lessons, creative hobbies) so there's the chance to practice a little at a time. In all of this, I've made mistakes, and one of the biggest things I've had to practice is not getting too down on myself for not being perfect. Picking up and continuing in a social situation instead of running away. Does any of this apply to you?
Dasani Posted July 27, 2005 Posted July 27, 2005 my advice.. talk to as many women as you can! just about anything! throw in compliments to random women as you are passing.. dont be interested at all.... just compliment and move on. this alone gets you to the point that YOU know women are special... but they arent EVERYTHING... you know they're hot but ONLY YOU decide how hot they are TO YOU. In other words you begin to control how you feel toward others- because you could care less if you get a comment back from them. Genuinely mean the compliment... you will make their day better, and make your own better and that will show through in your personality. its hella hard at first.. but with each time you practice it gets soo much easier. As you talk to women - they are your equal.. they are like your friends, your co-workers etc... dont show any interest in them beyond getting to know who they are. (at first and for a while) this is all practice for you to be comfortable around women as yourself. because honestly people are much mor elikely to get dates being themselvs... maybe sometimes a better version of themselves (ie- eating better, being happier, looking better etc)- but more or less the same humor you use 24 hours a day, the same intellect you use 24 hours a day, and the same knowledge you use 24 hours a day. you'll find someone who responds well to you. I knwo this sounds like BS- or what not.. but honestly.. this coming from someone who used to be the clingy type- who would change his personality to what he thought women would like... its being yourself- because you never have to remember to put on an act, you never have to act like someone you're not just to forget later, etc.
Angelina1433 Posted July 28, 2005 Posted July 28, 2005 Lights, why are you hurting so badly? Give us details and we may be able to help you further. If there is no particular situation, and you are just not confident enough to even talk to a woman, just be yourself. If you get that nervous flippy feeling in your stomach when you see someone you're attracted to - go with it. It's your body telling you something - that you need to go for it. Just say "Hi" and see where it goes from there. If you pretend you're confident enough, you'll eventually become just that. I still feel super nervous when there is a guy I'm attracted to and try to talk to him, but instead of being silent or smiling like I used to, I force myself to be talkative. Otherwise, it will go nowhere. It took me a long, long time to feel "confident" enough to even reply to men who talked to me! How have you approached women in the past (or present)?
phidelt127 Posted July 28, 2005 Posted July 28, 2005 my advice.. talk to as many women as you can! This is great advice, but you have to consider why. It's not just the confidence factor, it's also dealing with rejection. You have to handle it well because believe it or not, it WILL happen. False confidence or not, you have to understand the percentages behind the responses from women. That's why most games in life give you more than one chance to do things right. People understand that you may not get it right on the first shot. That's why you get 3 strikes in baseball, 4 downs in football, etc etc. I know that doesn't quite encompass the problem, but I'm getting to the point. So if you talk to one woman with the most confident attitude in the world and she tells you to f*** off, are you going to quit there? That's the point. You should chalk it up to experience, dust yourself off and get on with it. It's the same as if you were a football team. You're not going to punt just because you didn't gain any yards on first down are you? NO WAY! Here's the best part of the whole thing too. "Rejection", persay, is all about how you perceive it. People are afraid of rejection. Why? Well let's see. Let's say that you go up to a girl and you say something and she says something like "I have a boyfriend" or some other blow off statement like that. So you got rejected. Big deal! First of all, she's probably said that to about 10 other guys that night, and second, it's not like she yelled to the whole bar that you were hitting on her and she blew you off. That's what you're "afraid" of? I know that's what it is because I used to be "afraid" of that too. Seriously, that will NEVER happen, so forget about it. So that and the fact that you're a "rejection statistic" puts you in the general sense with her friends. She won't remember you later, which since she "rejected" you, is a good thing. So here's the bottom line. First, the more women you talk to, the more of a chance you have to meet one that will be into you, and second, rejection is just a word. Don't make it out to be worse than it really is, and stop being afraid of something that will never happen. Good luck. I hope this helps.
loony Posted July 28, 2005 Posted July 28, 2005 I'm starting to understand where you're coming from, sorry if I had been a bit (or a little bit more... ) harsh to you in the past. As a man you will never really be in the favorable position to have a lot of women approach you. As a woman you can get your ego boosts by men who approach you, but for a man there are rare events. You'd have to be quite attractive to make a woman overcome her own fears of rejection to approach you. Honestly, judging from your posts I don't think you're really such a babe magnet to make women be all over you. You seem to have little self-confidence which is usually not really a big turn-on alread, but instead of working on yourself and improving your attractiveness you shift your responsibility and complain that women are not modern enough to approach you, that they don't find you attractive enough to make a move at you. See, they will make a move when you're attractive enough to spark their interest. Nonetheless, it will still be men who most of the time will have to make the first moves. It's not fair and nice, but a lot of things are not nice. Men are still attractive when they age -- women just become older. Men are more superficial than women, etc., etc. There are a lot of other things that I don't like... I think what you need to do is to become somewhat comfortable when you interact with women. Become friends with them without ulterior motives, get to know them as human beings. You will feel more confident when you see that they also have their anxities and insecurities. Read some posts and see how they think. It's always good to have some friends of the opposite sex who can give you their point of views. Or post on LS, someone will give you an answer. If I were you, I'd try to improve myself. I'd try to find clothes that fit well and in which I feel comfortable with myself. I'd go to a fitness class to get in shape. I'd take some communication courses as someone had suggested before, good communication skills can save your life. When you start to become the best you, you will feel better and you will also give off better vibes, women will notice that you're a happy person, that you're working on yourself to become better and that is attractive. Don't try to mold yourself into someone that you are not, you should instead try to present yourself in the best possible way and to highlight your strengths. Don't imitate other people, because you think they are popular. If you're not a very funny person, don't try to tell one joke after another, that's not you and it will only bore people and make them think you're a wimp who's trying to please everyone. Know yourself and what you want and show it to the world with a smile.
alphamale Posted July 28, 2005 Posted July 28, 2005 Originally posted by Lights but how does one become confident without the success in the first place? by taking baby steps....it also gets easier as you get older
loony Posted July 28, 2005 Posted July 28, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale by taking baby steps....it also gets easier as you get older Please stop training the future generation of playboys...
Author Lights Posted July 29, 2005 Author Posted July 29, 2005 Lots of posts to respond to...thanks for the responses people. Sorry if my reply is going to be the size of a Bible... Originally posted by Angelina1433 Lights, why are you hurting so badly? Give us details and we may be able to help you further. If there is no particular situation, and you are just not confident enough to even talk to a woman, just be yourself. If you get that nervous flippy feeling in your stomach when you see someone you're attracted to - go with it. It's your body telling you something - that you need to go for it. Just say "Hi" and see where it goes from there. If you pretend you're confident enough, you'll eventually become just that. How have you approached women in the past (or present)? I'm hurting because this is chronic. The story doesn't ever seem to change, no matter what I do (or don't do, for those who think that it all happens when one isn't trying--been there, done that too.) I should have been more clear about confidence. I have the ability to attempt to talk to women. Whether they talk at all back is another matter. By confidence I meant I wanted to feel good about my social skills and having a reasonable belief that generally they will work. I have the ability to take the actions involved in socializing, but the results don't measure up. When that happens for over a decade straight, it makes one burn away... Most people ignore a friendly hi out here. I do it anyways because I have no other choice. As for how specifically I do the approaching, I usually walk up and say hi directly and introduce myself and hope that a conversation ensues, or else comment on something they have or are doing. I've never been taken seriously when being forward or trying to pick someone up outright. Originally posted by Dasani my advice.. talk to as many women as you can! just about anything! throw in compliments to random women as you are passing.. dont be interested at all.... just compliment and move on. this alone gets you to the point that YOU know women are special... but they arent EVERYTHING... you know they're hot but ONLY YOU decide how hot they are TO YOU. In other words you begin to control how you feel toward others- because you could care less if you get a comment back from them. I do my best to talk to as many women as I can. Gender ratio problems make opportunities scarce when one's days generally are work-gym-food-sleep or work-night classes-food-sleep, but I do what I can where I can without compromising what I'm doing at the time. Genuinely mean the compliment... you will make their day better, and make your own better and that will show through in your personality. its hella hard at first.. but with each time you practice it gets soo much easier. People must be friendlier where you come from. Out here, more often than not, compliments etc. or other attempts at proactively starting a conversation are considered weird by the same sex or irritating by the opposite sex unless one is in one's intended interlocutor's little urban clique or unless he/she is under orders or otherwise socially cued by a perceived superior to speak. As you talk to women - they are your equal.. they are like your friends, your co-workers etc... dont show any interest in them beyond getting to know who they are. (at first and for a while) Actually, no. That's the disturbing part. Nearly all women and most men where I come from are NOT my equals as far as social proactivity and socializing ability in the local language goes. I'm not so sure they're even the equal of android robots. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/computing/20030822-0319-odd-czech-robot.html Originally posted by phidelt127 Let's say that you go up to a girl and you say something and she says something like "I have a boyfriend" or some other blow off statement like that. So you got rejected. Big deal! First of all, she's probably said that to about 10 other guys that night, and second, it's not like she yelled to the whole bar that you were hitting on her and she blew you off. That's what you're "afraid" of? Seriously, that will NEVER happen, so forget about it. So that and the fact that you're a "rejection statistic" puts you in the general sense with her friends. She won't remember you later, which since she "rejected" you, is a good thing. 1. Not all women are that polite about direct rejections. "I have a boyfriend" is one thing, but "Uh, NO.", or "I DON'T think SO!", and even being turned and run from outright hurts. Indirect rejection from total failure in being approached over years and years also hurts. 2. What does the last sentence mean? I don't understand what you mean by "puts you in the general sense with her friends". Originally posted by JanieQP But what has helped me to progress a LOT has been to take lots of steps in non-dating areas. I've taken several communication courses and seminars that most directly helped with work things, but they introduced me to books that helped me in my personal life. I've pursued hobbies in that put me in situations that are social but task-oriented (swim club, dance lessons, creative hobbies) so there's the chance to practice a little at a time. Does any of this apply to you? I've done communications courses before. As far as hobbies go, it's tough--I rarely have the time to add to the list (the gym and night classes own most of my free time). Originally posted by alphamale by taking baby steps....it also gets easier as you get older No doubt about that. The question is finding out what those steps are when one's stuck in a situation where common sense doesn't seem to apply. Originally posted by loony You seem to have little self-confidence which is usually not really a big turn-on alread, You think I was born with self-confidence? Or is it gained through accomplishment in the arena in question? This is the point of my post. but instead of working on yourself and improving your attractiveness you shift your responsibility and complain that women are not modern enough to approach you, I do not shift responsibility at all. As a modern-age man who DOES show social proactivity (I can definitely say there's easily over a 100:1 ratio of people I've attempted to meet vs. people who've attempted to meet me, regardless of gender), the "responsibility" is split 50-50, once again regardless of gender or relationship type. Why should I settle for people who are less socially skilled than mere robots? (see link above) I think what you need to do is to become somewhat comfortable when you interact with women. Once again, how is true comfort in the situation gained without an existing record of successes? That's why I asked the question.
loony Posted July 29, 2005 Posted July 29, 2005 Originally posted by Lights I do my best to talk to as many women as I can. Gender ratio problems make opportunities scarce when one's days generally are work-gym-food-sleep or work-night classes-food-sleep, but I do what I can where I can without compromising what I'm doing at the time. There should be some women in your night-classes with whom you can make friends. In general is favorable to be open-minded and make friends with a lot of people of both genders. People who are fixated on only meeting people from the other sex give off bad vibes, even if they don't want to. They seem to be a tad desperate and not very social (otherwise they'd also be trying to socialize with people of the same gender). Actually, no. That's the disturbing part. Nearly all women and most men where I come from are NOT my equals as far as social proactivity and socializing ability in the local language goes. I'm not so sure they're even the equal of android robots. Well, maybe you don't have a lot of success, because you live in the wrong place. Or you could try to learn their language and socialize a bit more with them. (I can't really tell more as I don't know where you live and what kind of people live there.) I've done communications courses before. As far as hobbies go, it's tough--I rarely have the time to add to the list (the gym and night classes own most of my free time). Every time I see someone say that he doesn't have time to meet people I ask myself, then when do you think you will have time for your partner? You think I was born with self-confidence? Or is it gained through accomplishment in the arena in question? This is the point of my post. Well, not everybody is born with the same degree of self-confidence, but I'm sure it's something that you can learn. A while ago I had this talk with this guy who said that his best friend had problems meeting women. He was nice and a real gentlemen, but obviously pretty shy around women. His friend said, he also had problems when he went to a bar and got turned down, when women were not really nice and didn't even say "hello" back, but you have to keep on trying. That's the difference between this guy and his friend, he kept on trying. It is hard to emit self-confidence when you never really had success in this field, but you must always remind yourself, that a rejection has nothing to do with the real you. If you feel you're not ready for approaching women that directly, just start a conversation with them, a simple conversation with no further intentions than doing some small talk and maybe getting to know this person a bit better. Get used to talking with women. You think that you're approaching them in a nice way and that it's them who act so weird, but more likely is that you give off bad vibes, that you look nervous and that in return makes them nervous. The endeffect is that this person doesn't feel comfortable around you and therefore will run in the opposite direction. I do not shift responsibility at all. As a modern-age man who DOES show social proactivity (I can definitely say there's easily over a 100:1 ratio of people I've attempted to meet vs. people who've attempted to meet me, regardless of gender), the "responsibility" is split 50-50, once again regardless of gender or relationship type. Why should I settle for people who are less socially skilled than mere robots? (see link above) Do you want to hear my frank opinion? I don't think your social skills are very well developed, you are a tad defensive and you give off bad vibes, people pick this up and that's why they don't approach you. If you walked to a party, smiling and displaying an open-minded attitude, people would approach you. You assume that they are less socially skilled because they don't want to talk with you. Have you ever thought that they don't approach you because they think you look like you have an attitude or because you don't really look like a fun person to talk with? I used to complain like you did, but I think my problems with meeting people had more to do with me than with them. If you want to meet people you must show them that you're interested in them and you must appear approachable.
Zephyr45 Posted July 29, 2005 Posted July 29, 2005 You know, Lights, judging from your well articulated and thought out reply, I'm a little confused why you are having so much trouble. You at least seem normal and approachable from the little that one can tell from a message board. But the fact that some women have almost literally screamed and ran from you is a big red flag. Something isn't adding up. loony sees it. (funny how I didn't really get any bad vibes initially. I'll agree on the defensiveness, but at least it seemed like some thought was put into it. Anyway...) Unless there's something you are not telling us, such as the true nature of the place in which you live, or that you have a third arm growing out of your head, there has got to be something wrong with you. I don't know any other way to say it. How do your male peers fair? Do you have peers similar to you? Do you live on the moon? If you can't "lower" yourself to the "level" of the people you are consistently around, you need to move. You know, there is this quote from one of those anti-motivational joke-like posters (designed to mock those postive ones you'll find in almost every office) and as joking as it's supposed to be, it really reveals a powerful truth: "The only consistent feature of all your dissatisfying relationships is you." Think about that.
d'Arthez Posted July 29, 2005 Posted July 29, 2005 It is possible to be well articulated and clueless about social interactions. It happens to a lot of people, so it is not that you are an exception in any way. Confidence is not the result of attaining what you want, but is the result of being content with the attempts you make, regardless of the outcome of the attempts. I live in the old world, but if I attempted to randomly talk to people, regardless of my social skills, I would get similar results. I could blame people, I could blame myself, but it mostly depends on the situation I do that in. Most random talks with people of either sex, don't require you or the other person telling your name. Most often you get the best conversation in situations, that are turning out to be a bit different than expected. When a train suffers a delay. When you have to wait, because some official can't find the required forms. Et cetera. And yes, it takes time to build something. You can't start talking about marriage within the first 5 minutes, and with a lot of people you will have only 1 conversation. You can quite simply gauge by talking about regardless which subject if the two of you could even have long term potential. Of every 98 out of 100 cases, that will simply not be present. And then, it is not always true that there is mutual attraction. I am highly content with my dating and relationship life. And have practically always been. And it was not because I had 6 dates each weeks, or could freely pick from 20 different women at any point in time. That simply was not true. But I did not give too much importance to that - I was happy to pursue what I find and thought important at these times. Because I did just that, I never lacked the confidence to start conversation with women I was interested in. I did that, and of course, not everything was a success. I have had my share of painful experiences too. As everyone has. You don't need anyone to complete your life. You need to be happy being you, and from your posts you sound far removed from that. People pick that up, with all consequences. To talk as if all other people are robots, begs the question: why do you consider yourself so above them, as you are not even able to talk to these robots? Considering that, you should be looking in places where you would find these non-robots, whatever qualifications you put on that category. If that is an impossibility, you should do something about your attitude about people. You can believe that everyone is wrong, and you are right. And maintain that belief despite all the odds, that you would be mistaken. Or be content with the single life, which is not bad at all.
Angelina1433 Posted July 29, 2005 Posted July 29, 2005 Why should I settle for people who are less socially skilled than mere robots? (see link above) Lights, I just don't understand where you are coming from. What do you mean when you say that all of the people you encounter are "less socially skilled than mere robots"? If you say that everyone that you talk to behaves like this, then I agree with the other posters - that there must be something that you're doing wrong. Not everyone behaves like this. Maybe your lack of self-confidence shines through when you talk to women and they consequently converse like robots (whatever that means) because they can see it. Give me a scenario. What do you say to women and what are their responses that are likened to "mere robots"? I feel really bad for you as you struggle with this and we want to help!
Author Lights Posted July 30, 2005 Author Posted July 30, 2005 I made a discovery earlier tonight. I realized I should spend less time thinking about being pissed off. Originally posted by Angelina1433 I feel really bad for you as you struggle with this and we want to help! Thank you, Angelina, for your empathy and sympathy. Originally posted by loony Every time I see someone say that he doesn't have time to meet people I ask myself, then when do you think you will have time for your partner? I didn't say I didn't have time to meet people--just that it'd be unlikely that I'd be that particularly able to add another hobby to my schedule. That is a good question to ask, though. I guess I'll see what happens. Originally posted by d'Arthez Or be content with the single life, which is not bad at all. Amen, brotha! That is my goal. Single is not, however, to be confused with involuntarily dateless. My idea of a worthy single life is raging good times with friends, and plenty of fun dates, hot flings, or what-have-you unless I seek other things (I'm sure we've all wanted some alone time at times, or just plain needed to get something done and set any of various social matters aside while taking care of business). I do what I can. I don't in any way see this as being a matter of finding a long-term romantic relationship at all costs. Originally posted by Zephyr45 You know, Lights, judging from your well articulated and thought out reply, I'm a little confused why you are having so much trouble. You at least seem normal and approachable from the little that one can tell from a message board. Thank you, Zephyr45. Originally posted by Zephyr45 How do your male peers fair? Do you have peers similar to you? Do you live on the moon? Among the single ones, I don't really know. I suspect they vary. I have two friends who've been in similar situations. One openly admits never really having tried to meet women, and the other doesn't know anything I don't. Nope, planet earth as usual. Robots. Maybe I shouldn't have even brought them up--seems like it's been more trouble than it's been worth. It looks like either I failed to post the link correctly, or the replying posters did not read it, or otherwise some misunderstanding happened. I brought up the android as an example of a nonhuman humanoid being which apparently can gain command of a local human language and attempt to start a conversation. Originally posted by Angelina1433 Lights, I just don't understand where you are coming from. What do you mean when you say that all of the people you encounter are "less socially skilled than mere robots"? Originally posted by d'Arthez To talk as if all other people are robots, begs the question: why do you consider yourself so above them, as you are not even able to talk to these robots? Originally posted by loony You assume that they are less socially skilled because they don't want to talk with you. Have you ever thought that they don't approach you because they think you look like you have an attitude or because you don't really look like a fun person to talk with? I didn't say I'm unable to talk to them. I do talk to them. Remember, however--even the finest conversationalist will have a problem when up against plain old nonresponse. It takes two to tango, and several to have a mosh pit. The robot had the ability to attempt to strike up a conversation among humans. I have that ability. I'm sure most all of you have. But a massive number of people I've witnessed do not--not with me, and rarely ever with any other not previously defined as within their little clique. The comparison to the robot was not necessarily about dealing with me personally versus not dealing with me personally. (None of this is any exaggeration--a ways back, I saw people sitting around, vaguely surrounded by others of their races, but never daring to speak or do any ice-breaking in anyone's general direction. I'd expect this if they were various suspects recently dragged to a police station via separate cars. But they were classmates in a classroom before the beginning of a group-assignment-heavy class at the beginning of a term. Don't ask me for the logic behind their decision--one would think that finding acquaintances would be advantageous in that situation.)
Author Lights Posted August 6, 2005 Author Posted August 6, 2005 Apologies for post-bumping. I could use any other info if anyone has any, or if anyone has experience at getting beyond a problem like this.
lvgrly Posted August 6, 2005 Posted August 6, 2005 Did you know that is takes 21 days for a habit to form? Thats 3 weeks that you need to tell yourself that you are hot s***, and you can get any girl you want. Thats not saying become a cocky bastard, but then when it comes time to talk to a girl, or even approach her, your confidence and your attitude on things such as life, love, etc.. Will skyrocket. But you have to belieive it. I had to pretty much tell myself that for 3 weeks or however long I did it, that yes, I might be a little overweight, but thats not going to stop me from getting any guy I want. And in reality it might stop me from getting any guy I want, but in my head I had the balls to talk to guys that I never thought I would have been able to. And now, one of those guys growing up I never thought I would have a chance with, is in love with me and we live together.. That even means if you have acne for example, look in the mirror and tell yourself its part of you and you look good. Little steps make it possible to acheive what you want. Think about people who lie constantly, after a while, they tell the same lie over and over and over again, and they eventually start to beleive their own lie. Its the same concept, only your not telling a lie to yourself, you are picking out your good or great qualities and feeding off of those.
Angelina1433 Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 Lights, I want to shake you, darling. I thought you were spending less time thinking about being pissed off. Maybe you're no longer pissed off, but you're obviously still struggling with this. I wish you'd stop speaking abstractly, by the way. You sound very intelligent, so I don't understand why you can't get women to respond to you like you'd want. Where are you going to meet these women? What are you interested in? It may be a good idea to go somewhere that you could meet women with similar interests. That way, you'd at least have something in common to talk about. Let me put it to you this way - you have to "believe to achieve." Sounds like a corny saying (that I think I learned in elementary school), but it's true. Once you start believing that a woman will reciprocate the way you'd like, it will happen. Go up to someone you're interested in, flash a million dollar smile, and go for it. Be your sweet, intelligent self and women will lap it up.
loony Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 Originally posted by Lights I made a discovery earlier tonight. I realized I should spend less time thinking about being pissed off. Sounds like a good suggestion. Amen, brotha! That is my goal. Single is not, however, to be confused with involuntarily dateless. My idea of a worthy single life is raging good times with friends, and plenty of fun dates, hot flings, or what-have-you unless I seek other things (I'm sure we've all wanted some alone time at times, or just plain needed to get something done and set any of various social matters aside while taking care of business). I do what I can. I don't in any way see this as being a matter of finding a long-term romantic relationship at all costs. That sounds kind of naive. You want to be cool, charming and strike up conversations as easily as the playboys but somehow it doesn't work. And you envy them a lot, I stress the word 'envy'. Envy creates resentments and people pick up on this. They will also notice if you're interested in them as people or if you just crave for their attention to satisfy your ego. Robots. Maybe I shouldn't have even brought them up--seems like it's been more trouble than it's been worth. It looks like either I failed to post the link correctly, or the replying posters did not read it, or otherwise some misunderstanding happened. The link worked perfectly and what the reaction was you have seen already. I brought up the android as an example of a nonhuman humanoid being which apparently can gain command of a local human language and attempt to start a conversation. I didn't say I'm unable to talk to them. I do talk to them. Remember, however--even the finest conversationalist will have a problem when up against plain old nonresponse. It takes two to tango, and several to have a mosh pit. The robot had the ability to attempt to strike up a conversation among humans. I have that ability. I'm sure most all of you have. But a massive number of people I've witnessed do not--not with me, and rarely ever with any other not previously defined as within their little clique. The comparison to the robot was not necessarily about dealing with me personally versus not dealing with me personally. I honestly don't think so. From the little bit that your posts revealed about yourself I doubt that you're a pleasant conversationalist. If you want to strike up conversations with people you need a feeling of empathy and understanding for people. I'd say, you completely lack this. You're a mixture of condescendence, arrogance, social awkwardness, lack of self-confidence and empathy, self-centeredness, etc. I don't know if you're a nice person or not, or whether you could be nicer if you were less tense and stressed with finding somenone, I'm just stating what I'm seeing. I don't want to sugarcoat things and tell you that I consider you a very nice person if I just don't feel like this at all. I can't remember where I got this but for me the following sentence contains some very important truth: "If you want to be understood, you need to understand first." You're judging all these people. You think you can hide it but you can bet people pick up on this very very quickly. Try to live by this motto for a while, try to understand people and see how much will change for you. (None of this is any exaggeration--a ways back, I saw people sitting around, vaguely surrounded by others of their races, but never daring to speak or do any ice-breaking in anyone's general direction. I'd expect this if they were various suspects recently dragged to a police station via separate cars. But they were classmates in a classroom before the beginning of a group-assignment-heavy class at the beginning of a term. Don't ask me for the logic behind their decision--one would think that finding acquaintances would be advantageous in that situation.) Maybe they felt uncomfortable? Maybe they didn't know what to say? Maybe they all got frustrated with striking up conversations with strangers too at one moment and now they decided to sit and wait till someone talks to them? Some people have this attitude and of course it's not helping. Wouldn't it be better if you understood that they were also frustrated?
loony Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 Originally posted by loony Sounds like a good suggestion. Correction: I mean to say "idea".
Nomad Posted August 7, 2005 Posted August 7, 2005 I'll tell you straight off that I'm struggling with similar problems and questions and self-doubts as yourself, so I feel your pain. But I'm not going to even read your "robot" link. I would not mention robots or androids or any of that stuff ever again when describing other people because it is WEIRD. And nothing makes girls head for the hills faster than a weird guy. How old are you? What do you look like? What's your body type? Have you ever had a girlfriend? A date? Anything? Do you have female friends or acquaintances you can turn to for advice or at least support?
Author Lights Posted October 6, 2005 Author Posted October 6, 2005 I don't know any words in any languages with sufficient negative emotive impact. Even a growl doesn't do the job. Some things don't seem to be changing at all! I'll tell you straight off that I'm struggling with similar problems and questions and self-doubts as yourself, so I feel your pain. But I'm not going to even read your "robot" link. I would not mention robots or androids or any of that stuff ever again when describing other people because it is WEIRD. And nothing makes girls head for the hills faster than a weird guy. How old are you? What do you look like? What's your body type? Have you ever had a girlfriend? A date? Anything? Do you have female friends or acquaintances you can turn to for advice or at least support? Hi Nomad. Have you found anything leading to an escape anytime recently? I'm interested in what you've managed to do. I'll answer your questions: mid-20s, Asian, medium build. No girlfriends yet, few dates ever. I don't have any female friends I can turn to for advice or support--that's why I'm left trusting strangers over the net. To be honest I do not really care what you or anyone else thinks is weird. I'm not the kind of person who spends his entire life living with a junior high school mindset, so you won't be seeing me terrified of what other people think of my opinions. That sounds kind of naive. If you honestly believe that aspiring to success in creating an awesome social life is naive, then I'm afraid there really isn't anything any advice of yours, at least along those lines, could offer me. I regret to inform you that I plan on remaining naive and accomplishing what you apparently believe to be a fool's quest. You sound very intelligent, so I don't understand why you can't get women to respond to you like you'd want. Where are you going to meet these women? What are you interested in? It may be a good idea to go somewhere that you could meet women with similar interests. That way, you'd at least have something in common to talk about. Let me put it to you this way - you have to "believe to achieve." Sounds like a corny saying (that I think I learned in elementary school), but it's true. Once you start believing that a woman will reciprocate the way you'd like, it will happen. Go up to someone you're interested in, flash a million dollar smile, and go for it. Be your sweet, intelligent self and women will lap it up. Thank you, Angelina. You sound very sweet and thoughtful. These days I don't really go any place specifically to meet women. Most of my time outside work is spent either in the gym or at night classes. Other than that, I might attempt to meet a nearby woman just anywhere if she just happens to be nearby and if she and I are not particularly busy (although this is pretty rare given the gender ratios in my environments). I can believe what you are saying, but I'm still trying to figure out how to get to that state of truly believing that women will reciprocate as I'd like even when life and way too much past experience has beaten me into believing otherwise. I'll definitely try that again soon once I find another someone that I'm interested and if I'm feeling happy enough to be able to flash a million dollar smile. Did you know that is takes 21 days for a habit to form? Thats 3 weeks that you need to tell yourself that you are hot s***, and you can get any girl you want. Thats not saying become a cocky bastard, but then when it comes time to talk to a girl, or even approach her, your confidence and your attitude on things such as life, love, etc.. Will skyrocket. But you have to belieive it. This is the same thing as I wrote above to Angelina--how do you maintain this belief even when everyday life isn't really demonstrating the belief to be true and when lots of past experience has shown the contrary? I'm having a hard time doing that. How did you manage? Thanks all.
Author Lights Posted October 6, 2005 Author Posted October 6, 2005 I should have edited my previous message--my rant at the beginning was about my feelings about how things haven't changed, not a rant against the any of the posts posted here. Just making a clarification.
johan Posted October 6, 2005 Posted October 6, 2005 The two big keys to confidence in my opinion: faith and humility. You must gain total faith in yourself that you are desirable, regardless of how you perceive the feedback you've gotten. You have to have faith that you won't let yourself down no matter what happens. You may not succeed, but you won't let yourself down. You're your best and most reliable source of love. You might need it from others, but that won't mean much to you if you don't love yourself. And you must have humility enough to give people credit for doing their best in life. If you understand that, then you can see that everyone else is your equal. You can't take things personally and you can't get upset if they don't provide the level of feedback you want in the form you expect. You must forget the idea that you "deserve" anything at all, because life doesn't keep score. You just have to do your best and give others credit for doing what they think is right. Thinking of people as not even as good as robots shows that you don't have the kind of humility you need. You can't really hide that kind of bad attitude and fundamental disrespect. Talking to women might make you feel more courageous, but it won't bring you these fundamentals. It will show you that there isn't much to be afraid of, but lack of fear and having real confidence are two different things.
fusangite Posted October 6, 2005 Posted October 6, 2005 Lights, I'm in much the same boat as you. I started a thread about a similar situation a few weeks ago. A few thoughts: - it sounds to me like your body language and vocal intonation are conveying a very clear "keep away" to the people to whom you speak - another factor seems to be that you have a problem I don't: you also have difficulty tracking other people's body language as a way of determining if they are receptive to being approached - where I'm unclear on what you do is what the context and purpose of the conversations you start is -- walking up to strangers and talking about nothing in particular requires a lot more social skill than meeting someone at an art gallery and having something intelligent to say about the painting you're both standing infront of - I agree about the confidence vicious cycle, though. I'm there too. If you discover how to crack that particular problem, let me know.
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