I got a message from the OW

[alsudduth]

Both and neither. My husbands AP sent me a text apologizing for "interfering in my marriage. I never responded. Four months later he was secretly living with her.

 

During the time they were talking, I got several "i'm sorry" "I'm not trying to interfere on your marriage" "It was wrong to send a picture of myself with a heart attached to your husband" - Not a single one sounded sincere to me.

 

everybody's situation is different, and hearing everyone's responses are quite interesting.

[Whoknew30]

For me, getting the message from her was something I needed to hear. My H is also to blame for the affair, but she knew exactly what she was doing and I had conversations with her on a couple occasions about how disrespectful it was that she kept initiating contact with my H when I had repeatedly asked her to stop.

 

That coupled with the fact that I found her words to be sincere, means that I feel like I can forgive her. I don't want to be her friend, I don't want to have long meaningful conversations with her about what we've learned along the way....I just want to forgive her, hope she can successfully reconcile with her family and forget her.

 

My H OW asked me to go for drinks...so we could connect bc she wanted to date my brother! She must have gotten me saying "I hold no animosity towards you" confused for "let's be friends".

 

BTW..she met my brother once & as soon as he figured out who she was, he kicked her out of his house (she came with a mutual friend, that didn't know). So she must have got being kicked out, confused for him wanting to date her.

 

Made me feel extremely bad for her...bc something had to be off. Last time I saw her I was pregnant & the poor girl literally took off running when she saw me...i know other wives would feel "good" about that but I didn't. My heart actually went out to her...it's interesting how different every situation is.

 

If you got closure from it, I'm happy for you

[aileD]

I'm sure the apology was more for the OWs peace of mind than yours

 

Selfishness doesn't end when the affair does.

 

Delete it and don't think another thing about it.

[Jooles]

For some reason I am suspicious that she decided to contact you out of the blue.

 

My first instinct was that you should respond one time only and say "no need to apologize. Ultimately my husband and I are closer with a stronger marriage than ever before and things have never been better "

If there is something going on between them still, that is not the response she will want.

 

It is better to forgive if you can. Holding on to it is not good for you or ultimately your marriage.

[waterwoman]

I got an apology. I think it was sincere as it was when we happened to accidentally run into each other in a car park. She was flustered and embarrassed and so was I. I just stood there with my mouth open like a stranded fish and muttered something inane.

 

Did it make me feel better? No, not really. I just felt bad about the occasional evil thought I still had about her I was already almost over it all by then - it was a few years after dday IIRC. If she had said sorry nearer to dday I wouldn't have believed her and assumed she wanted to hurt me more. When she left it as long as she did I didn't much care. Still I have to credit her with the attempt - I think she must be braver than me in this case.

[wmacbride]

Honest question, how is an OW who knows nothing about the BS (besides what she was told by the MM) supposed to do this? To me, the apology in the OP seems sincere and there is no blameshifting. But reactions here are mixed on whether it was a good idea.

 

I feel like I see this a lot. BS say "I would love an apology, IF it were sincere!" But when an apology arrives, even if it's 100% taking responsibility and expressing remorse without a hint of justification or excuses, half the time it's blown off. "How dare she! If she were really sorry, she wouldn't have done it in the first place! She is only looking to ease her own guilt!"

 

So which is it?

 

I asked this one on a infidelity website - whether, in their opinion, it would do a BS any good to sincerely and briefly apologize. They unanimously dismissed my intentions as, at best, trying to absolve my own guilt, and at worst, trying to rub the affair in the BW's face to make her suffer more. (Neither of which are true. Frankly the A caused enough issues in my own life that contact with HER to absolve my guilt is completely beside the point, and I certainly have no interest in purposely torturing her. It would only be worthwhile to me if it would help her to heal in any way - I owe her that much after everything I did.) Yet I've seen those same women write posts demonizing the OW in part because they never apologized.

 

I think it's easier to want an idealized apology but to dismiss an actual apology, because acknowledging it means that the OW is a human being capable of a range of emotions including remorse and empathy. Easier to write them off as one-dimensional selfish monsters.

 

 

I don't think you understand, as it doesn't sound like you've been a bs. My apologies if you have been.

 

I have been, and I can tell you that a letter from an ow that is dripping with self pity is not going to be welcomed. I got one of those myself, and it was most definitely not meant to actually apologize, but rather, it was meant to illicit absolution from me so she could continue to see herself as a victim.

 

For instance, the following phrases have not pace in an apology letter:

" I couldn't help myself" ( yes you could. you just didn't want to)

"I never meant to hurt you" ( again, irrelevant. Intention doesn't matter, action does)

"I want to tell my side" ( unless the bs asks for it, levae that out)

"He chased me" ( again, not the bs's problem, and it doesn't change anything)

" I'm hurt too" ( not the bs's problem)

and of course, the word that can nullify an apology " I'm sorry, but ...."

( I got the " we shoudl be friends, and if you ever need advice about your relationship, you can talk to me" crap too. )

 

The thing is that each bs is different. Some will want a sincere apology, which really only needs two lines " I'm so sorry, and neither you nor your ws will ever hear from me again". Simple.

 

It's pretty disingenuous to complain that a bs will hurt the ow emotionally if they don't accept their apology or see it an sincere. After the ow played a huge role in hurting the bs, why on earth should that same bs feel like they have to accept an apology, no matter what spirit it was made in?

 

It's not about not seeing the ow as a human being or anything else. It's about the bs finding a way to help their themselves and move forward. How to do that will be different for each person. For some, an apology will be a piece of that, for others, it will just make things worse.

Edited March 23, 2017 by wmacbride

[cocorico]

You are a much better person than I.

I hope the OW's family falls apart and both OW die violently. But that's just me.

 

And probably your MM's BW.

[katielee]

And probably your MM's BW.

 

actually, she's WAY nicer than me.

[alsudduth]

So I got another message from the OW today. She said that her and my husband have met on 4 separate occasions. The first being the one I suspected.

 

She has no proof, except for a sticker she kept from the first meeting at a VW show they met at. I called my H after getting her message and he admitted that they saw each other then, but only hung out. That he didn't have sex with her. He is denying seeing her the other 3 times.

 

I don't know what to believe. Why is this being all hashed out now? I had my own thoughts about what went down and if they saw each other that first meeting, I had almost made amends with it, I could get past this one meeting he admits to (as I've made peace with that) but how do I know who is telling the truth about the other 3 times, and does it really make a difference?

 

I feel like I don't know what to believe and like I don't know my husband at this point.

[alsudduth]

So I got another message from the OW today. She said that her and my husband have met on 4 separate occasions. The first being the one I suspected.

 

She has no proof, except for a sticker she kept from the first meeting at a VW show they met at. I called my H after getting her message and he admitted that they saw each other then, but only hung out. That he didn't have sex with her. He is denying seeing her the other 3 times.

 

I don't know what to believe. Why is this being all hashed out now? I had my own thoughts about what went down and if they saw each other that first meeting, I had almost made amends with it, I could get past this one meeting he admits to (as I've made peace with that) but how do I know who is telling the truth about the other 3 times, and does it really make a difference?

 

I feel like I don't know what to believe and like I don't know my husband at this point.

 

How do I show that this is updated information that has come to light?

[DKT3]

This stinks like a setup to.....I expect her to reach out again with more information. I don't know sounds like she is looking to cause trouble.

 

At the same time your husband gave her ammo. I understand his need for validation and boosts in self esteem and I'm sure that "hang out" gave him some.

[harrybrown]

so Sorry, but I do not know what to believe.

 

They are both liars and cheaters.

 

But it may be that they saw each other the 4 times.

 

I wonder why she would lie about that? but if she wants your H to be free for her, she could do this to create more problems.

 

However, I do think you H would try to minimize any other meetings.

[Birdies]

I don't think you understand, as it doesn't sound like you've been a bs. My apologies if you have been.

 

I have been, and I can tell you that a letter from an ow that is dripping with self pity is not going to be welcomed. I got one of those myself, and it was most definitely not meant to actually apologize, but rather, it was meant to illicit absolution from me so she could continue to see herself as a victim.

 

For instance, the following phrases have not pace in an apology letter:

" I couldn't help myself" ( yes you could. you just didn't want to)

"I never meant to hurt you" ( again, irrelevant. Intention doesn't matter, action does)

"I want to tell my side" ( unless the bs asks for it, levae that out)

"He chased me" ( again, not the bs's problem, and it doesn't change anything)

" I'm hurt too" ( not the bs's problem)

and of course, the word that can nullify an apology " I'm sorry, but ...."

( I got the " we shoudl be friends, and if you ever need advice about your relationship, you can talk to me" crap too. )

 

The thing is that each bs is different. Some will want a sincere apology, which really only needs two lines " I'm so sorry, and neither you nor your ws will ever hear from me again". Simple.

 

It's pretty disingenuous to complain that a bs will hurt the ow emotionally if they don't accept their apology or see it an sincere. After the ow played a huge role in hurting the bs, why on earth should that same bs feel like they have to accept an apology, no matter what spirit it was made in?

 

It's not about not seeing the ow as a human being or anything else. It's about the bs finding a way to help their themselves and move forward. How to do that will be different for each person. For some, an apology will be a piece of that, for others, it will just make things worse.

 

Wmac - I just saw this, so apologies for the delay. First off, I am NOT "complaining about the bs hurting the ow emotionally by not accepting an apology"...I have no idea how that interpretation came to be?? Not at all what I was saying, that is completely putting words in my mouth. Obviously the bs doesn't owe an ow anything. Generally, I was just commenting on the dichotomy between so many women wanting a sincere apology (and yes I understand "sincere" to be just that, not a series of excuses or justifications), but also thinking the worst of anyone who does provide that ("she just wants her own guilt absolved!"). It's an interesting contradiction. Not complaining - if you're an OW you shouldn't expect things to be "fair" going forward - but just noting it.

 

OP, I would think about your present problem from the Occam's Razor perspective - the simplest explanation is likely the correct one. What reason does the OW have to lie to you? Maybe just to eff with you - some do that. Most OW, however, did not start the affair to explicitly hurt you or anyone else.

 

What reason does your H have to lie? A really good one, to cover his ass and maintain the minimizing that he did originally. I was there in his shoes, I did the same thing - I thought I didn't want to hurt my husband with the full truth, but I realize now it was mainly to protect myself from my own actions.

 

Anyway, just my 2 cents. Good luck.

[alsudduth]

The other three times she pointed out were in fact times that I could remember him being out of town.

 

Here is the messages from her:

 

Her: "ALS this is "OW", I am trying to get a hold of you. Its very important. I want to apologize to you for all the harm I caused you and your family. I caused you, your children, your sister in law so much hurt. I should have never have been friends with S, especially since he asked to kiss me only hours after you confronted me, I walked away when he said that because I couldn't believe that he was asking me just hours after what had happened. I told him no when he asked to meet in February and I should have left it all then, but I was pathetic, my husband was having affair for 2 years at that point. I became the worst thing in the world! I became that ****ing whore I hate. I have told my husband everything. I saw S 4 times total; from the time he came to OC for the bus show in Sept. The weekend before your birthday, we went camping in the desert, then we met briefly at the same spot in the middle of Octber and the last time was the middle of November, and after that last visit I couldnt continue with the way things were, so I stopped it. It didnt feel right doing it the entire time; I was ill because I knew what I was doing was wrong, but I was selfish. And S was persistent, he asked me to stay with him. It was supposed to be a one time thing, but he kept saying how it was painful for us not to be together. But when he called me his mistress; which was the worst thing I ever heard, I wanted to end it, but he said he wanted to be with me, even saying he was going to try and move to the San Diego office, saying he wish he could get me pregnant; it was too much and too weird. I tried to get out of it after it started, but I was pathetic. I did to you what was done to me. I became a homewrecker, I became the worst thing ever, the other worman. A roll I never thought I woudl be. I became a whore for petty reasons. I am so sorry that I ruined your home. I will live with the regret and shame for the rest of my life. I hope one day you can forgive me. I am sorry I hurt you and your family in the worst possible way."

 

Me: "woah. what?

I saw your first message - what is the rest of this?"

 

Her: "This is all of it.

I have been wanting to tell you and apologies for years, but didnt have the courage.

My H knows everything.

I told him everything.

I only want you to know the truth. I dont want to cause you anymore harm. But I know this is painful for you to read. I am so sorry for all the pain I have caused you ALS.

You are a good person and I was awful to you, to your family, and to your sister in law."

 

Me: "why are you telling me this now"

 

Her: Because I was a pathetic coward. and I thought you deserve the truth, just like my H deserved the truth. I told him everything in July and I was scared to hurt you again and I thought S should be the one to tell you. But I have been thinking about this since it all started you deserve the truth, you deserve respect and honesty and I am sorry for everything I have dont to hurt you and your family. I havent spoken to S since Nov 2013, I did try to contact him last year to see if he told you, to see how he was dealing with the shame and guilt, but I never spoke to him, I didnt get a hold of him, but I thought maybe he told you the truth. But I haven't spoken to him since things ended in 2013. I just want to make things right.

 

And I am sorry if I am causing you more pain. I am so sorry Amber."

 

Me: "do you have proof"

 

Her: I deleted everything after the affair ended. The only thing I kept was a sticker from the bus show, its a cartoon bear that looks shocked. S stayed at the Ayres hotel in Anaheim, your sister in law told my H that you guys came out here that weekend. Then we met twice off Hwy 10; we camped the first time and the second was just a meet up, and the 4th and last time was when he and his dad went to yuma for bus show, I met him out there, we stayed at a hotel. I dont have anything else. I got rid of everything thinking I could make it go away.

 

I know I meant nothing to S, he was using me to get back at you for you hanging out with your ex (<---(Not True). And I was acting out because of the affair my H had for two years starting in 2011. And I have wanted an apology from her ever since she came into my home. And I have thought you would want the same honest and apology that I have wanted ever since then. I am so sorry ALS that I was disrespectful and dishonest towards you. I assure you he meant nothing to me. I was in a dark and insecure/pathetic place.

 

I have hurt so many people with my thoughtless and careless actions.

 

I am so sorry ALS and I know this is opening up the past and I am so sorry to cause you further hurt. I just want you to know that I am sorry and that I am dealing with the consequences of my actions. I am sorry ALS, I hope one day you can forgive me for being such a horrible, deceitful person."

 

Me: Pls let me know if he contacts you again. Please keep a copy.

 

Her "We haven't been in contact since 11/2013 and I have him blocked on FB so he cant contact me and I dont wish to have any contact either. I just wanted to apologize to you."

 

Me: ok. if you find proof let me know.

 

"Her: Do you not believe me?"

 

Me: "as you can imagine, it is difficult for me since you have no proof. What are you expecting to accomplish by telling me all this now? It's been almost 4 years."

 

Her: "It has been four years and I wanted to do what is right. I wanted to make amends. But if you would rather not believe me then that's fine. If what I tell you doesnt affect your relationship then that's great too. I don't have any tangible proof. All I have is my word, which is the truth. And I just wanted to apologize for cheating on my husband with yours. That's all I have wanted to say to you for 4 years because you deserve the truth. I have told you the truth. I have no reason to lie to you about this. So, I have said to you what I have wanted to say and I wish you and S nothing but the best in your lives. Thanks for listening and I hope that your marriage is happy and successful until the end of your days. I didnt need proof for my husband to believe me that there was an affair S. Good luck to you and your family. I wont contact you again and I will be shutting down my account as the only reason I opened it was to apologize to you."

 

Me: "He has admitted to part of this but says you are lying about the three times after the OC. I don't know what to believe."

[cocorico]

I had my own thoughts about what went down and if they saw each other that first meeting, I had almost made amends with it, I could get past this one meeting he admits to (as I've made peace with that) but how do I know who is telling the truth about the other 3 times, and does it really make a difference?

 

Did he admit to this meeting before you confronted him?

 

If so, I'd go with believing him. He disclosed, she can only prove the one you knew about anyway, the others may be just to wind you up.

 

If not - I'd believe her. He's only willing to admit what you can prove. He won't admit to anything further which may incriminate him - until you have evidence he can't deny. Then he'll give ground on that, but deny everything further until you have proof of that... IOW, he's not yet being completely honest. And whether or not anything sexual happened, he's still being dishonest. Which bugs you more - deceit or sex? If it's the sex, fair enough, blow it off. But if it's the deceit - I'd hold him to account.

[alsudduth]

Did he admit to this meeting before you confronted him?

 

He adamantly denied it until yesterday.

[Birdies]

If this matters to you in a substantial way, and I can see why it would, the simplest solution would be to insist he takes a polygraph. You can find professionals who do them in most medium sized towns. If he's telling the truth, he should be bending over backwards to get you to believe him and will do it willingly. If he doesn't want to, it's because he's lying.

 

Look, cheaters lie. I never lied about anything in my life until I had an affair, but it becomes second nature because covering your ass becomes the most important thing. And once you've lied about something (like only meeting once), you go to any extreme to keep that lie intact, even when it becomes less and less plausible. The minimizing is a consistent pattern in affairs, too. Admit to one small piece of it but hide the rest.

 

This just seems very, very typical and her messages to you seem sincere. For your own peace of mind, I would insist and follow through on the polygraph. I'm sorry this is happening to you

[cocorico]

He adamantly denied it until yesterday.

 

Then I would not trust him. He lied until you had proof, and then admitted only that for which you had proof.

 

The fact that he lied all this time... even if he finally admitted it, he was still prepared to lie consistently all head years. And only admit it when you had proof. Perhaps you're willing to look beyond that, since he finally admitted it when he could no longer deny it in the face of proof - but I wouldn't be. Anyone who could lie to me like that, and for so long, and then still only admit what I already knew because I had proof - well, I would never be able to trust such a person again.

 

If you're wanting more proof, why not speak to her H? He clearly had enough evidence to believe her, even if she's since destroyed it.

[BTDT2012]

She should have told you everything from the start. I don't but the explanation for separate emails. Did you tell him about H the proof that she had, or did you simply tell him about the number of meetings that she claims?

[alsudduth]

She should have told you everything from the start. I don't but the explanation for separate emails. Did you tell him about H the proof that she had, or did you simply tell him about the number of meetings that she claims?

 

I made him read the messages from her. He pointed out what was true and what she says she is lying about. He says he doesn't understand why she would lie about all this.

[alsudduth]

I think I have to assume she is telling the truth and make a decision on that.

[alsudduth]

I also just sent a message to the OW Husband to see what he can tell me if anything.

[understand50]

I think I have to assume she is telling the truth and make a decision on that.

 

I also just sent a message to the OW Husband to see what he can tell me if anything.

 

Alsudduth,

 

I Wish you all the best and the best possible outcome to this. Getting to know the truth is essential to reconciliation, and you will never rest easy until you do. Do what you must, and hopefully your husband will fess up if there is anything for him to do so.

 

I wish you luck....

[alsudduth]

Alsudduth,

 

I Wish you all the best and the best possible outcome to this. Getting to know the truth is essential to reconciliation, and you will never rest easy until you do. Do what you must, and hopefully your husband will fess up if there is anything for him to do so.

 

I wish you luck....

 

Thanks. It just really sucks you know. We were finally getting into a groove of happiness, I felt like we were in a good spot. I've worked so hard the last 9 months to do the right thing regarding my own indescretion, I was so proud of our progress and how I have "stuck to my end of the deal" if you will. I feel betrayed and vulnerable all over again.

 

Is there another option outside of divorce to break this cycle of pain?

[understand50]

Thanks. It just really sucks you know. We were finally getting into a groove of happiness, I felt like we were in a good spot. I've worked so hard the last 9 months to do the right thing regarding my own indescretion, I was so proud of our progress and how I have "stuck to my end of the deal" if you will. I feel betrayed and vulnerable all over again.

 

Is there another option outside of divorce to break this cycle of pain?

 

Alsudduth,

 

What you are running up against is him not telling you all the truth, and then this coming to the forefront. I do not know if you should divorce, but I would ask yourself, if the time from D-Day to here has been good. Has he been faithful, do you think he can be faithful going forward? This revelation, is stuff he did that he did not tell you because he was scared, and lacked the courage to come completely clean. I do not think most WS really tell all. They hold things back, but the main fact of the betrayal is there. Is this information a detail, or is it so new information, that it changes everything? Looking at it this way, is this a possibility to get him to show true remorse, and help you both heal? Can he now really feel now just what he has done to you, and the hurt and pain he has caused?

 

My take is that, this is from the past betrayal, and is really nothing new, just seems new. I would not dismiss it, but use it to advance your reconciliation. What it does bring up is the fact that he lacks the courage to come completely clean. It shows, that he is weak, scared, and lacked that final bit of courage to do what is right. He does not want to lose you, so he held back things. We talk about the hurt and pain for the BS, and I am not here to say this is less for you then what it is, nor am I saying that your husband should be let off the hook from what he has done, but we need to have compassion if we are in reconciliation, to the pain and hurt the WS has inflected upon themselves, and see if we can also heal them as we heal ourselves. If you look at this coldly, does this take from what he has done for the last year? Looking back can you see any changes in him that gives you hope? Answering these questions, and then also asking how much love between you is left, this, in my opinion, should be how you decide to divorce or stay.

 

The now is more important then the past, how is he now? How are you? I think from your EA, you get a idea of some of what he went trough, again not to to excuse it in any way, but it can let you see why he may have not been completely honest with you. I wold also like to give a thought to you. In some cases we set up a catch 22 situation. "Tell me all, or I go, but if you tell me such and such I go" If we really want the truth, sometimes we need to make a safe space so the WS can do so. I would hate to see all your hard work going to nought, but I also do not want you to stay, unless this is getting better, and you feel it is, or can see where it can. See the future.

 

As always, I wish you luck.....