answers you don't want to hear

[FoundMyStrength]

Sadly, the truth hurts. But, you do have to respect his honesty....

 

I hope you don't waste more of your life on this man. When he tells you that he loves his wife and he plans to stay with his wife, he is telling you to leave. Don't waste any more time, dear girl. It breaks my heart.

 

Agree with all of this. My xMM was truthful. He said he loved me, but he also loved his wife. And he was going back home to see if things could work.

 

He tried to keep in touch with me, I think to keep me as a backup plan. But I was honest with him. I had no intention of waiting around while he figured his sh*t out. I'm not anyone's backup plan. I told him he was free to reach out to me if he was single some day. And *maybe* I'd be single too.

 

My xMM gave me a choice, and your MM is giving you one too. He is saying with words and action that he has no intention of leaving her. You will always be #2 in his eyes. Take him at his word. Find someone who will make you #1. His honesty is a gift -- take it. Most xMM will lie and lie to keep you hooked.

[oldshirt]

since the $40 hooker comment has already been referenced and allowed to remain in the thread, let's think about that for a second.

 

The $40 hooker walks away with $40 and has something to show for it at the end.

 

So lets do some hooker math. Let's say an average of one BJ a week times 5 years comes up to $10,400. Not bad for a few minutes of work a week that doesn't even break a sweat.

 

 

 

What do you have to show for it after 5 years? Do you have an extra $10,400 cash sitting in drawer somewhere?

 

My point here is if you are being treated like a hooker, you might as well get the real-world benefits of it. I'd suggest asking for cash on the barrel up front.

 

Set the bar higher for yourself.

Edited March 11, 2017 by oldshirt

[freengreen]

since the $40 hooker comment has already been referenced and allowed to remain in the thread, let's think about that for a second.

 

The $40 hooker walks away with $40 and has something to show for it at the end.

 

So lets do some hooker math. Let's say an average of one BJ a week times 5 years comes up to $10,400. Not bad for a few minutes of work a week that doesn't even break a sweat.

 

 

 

What do you have to show for it after 5 years? Do you have an extra $10,400 cash sitting in drawer somewhere?

 

My point here is if you are being treated like a hooker, you might as well get the real-world benefits of it. I'd suggest asking for cash on the barrel up front.

 

Set the bar higher for yourself.

as much as this post sounds so cut throat.... that is what the OP is being treated as...

[oldshirt]

as much as this post sounds so cut throat.... that is what the OP is being treated as...

 

Yes. And if that is what she is being used for and how she is being treated - she might as well reap the benefits.

 

People knock prostitutes, but prostitutes walk away with actual, tangible benefits in their hand.

 

When comparing a situation like this to a prostitute, one must ask who is actually getting the better deal.

[Savannah2]

Ok I get that and I know that's sometimes how I feel like am I paid prostitution. But I also know that he talks to me a lot outside of work.. like almost every few hours he's checking in with me on the weekends and evenings at home. So.. doesn't that mean he's somewhat emotionally attached?

[Starswillshine]

Ok I get that and I know that's sometimes how I feel like am I paid prostitution. But I also know that he talks to me a lot outside of work.. like almost every few hours he's checking in with me on the weekends and evenings at home. So.. doesn't that mean he's somewhat emotionally attached?

 

 

Question... would you continue to give him sexual favors if he wasn't doing these things? If the answer is no, that is your answer as to why he would do this.

 

My WS told me he had to give a little to ow if he wanted to take.

[aileD]

Ok I get that and I know that's sometimes how I feel like am I paid prostitution. But I also know that he talks to me a lot outside of work.. like almost every few hours he's checking in with me on the weekends and evenings at home. So.. doesn't that mean he's somewhat emotionally attached?

 

No it doesn't. It means he's fantasizing about the next time you will service him, he's bored, he's keeping you in check because as someone else said hookers are expensive and you do it for free.

 

I challenge you. Do these things and see if he continues to speak to you:

 

-stop engaging in anything sexual, including conversation, sexting etc for one month.

 

-stop answering his texts right away...wait a day before responding

 

-show up at his home just to say hi.

 

You will be dropped like a hot potato, the expense of a prostitute will be worth it to him then because it comes with discreetness

[lftbehind]

since the $40 hooker comment has already been referenced and allowed to remain in the thread, let's think about that for a second.

 

The $40 hooker walks away with $40 and has something to show for it at the end.

 

So lets do some hooker math. Let's say an average of one BJ a week times 5 years comes up to $10,400. Not bad for a few minutes of work a week that doesn't even break a sweat.

 

 

 

What do you have to show for it after 5 years? Do you have an extra $10,400 cash sitting in drawer somewhere?

 

My point here is if you are being treated like a hooker, you might as well get the real-world benefits of it. I'd suggest asking for cash on the barrel up front.

 

Set the bar higher for yourself.

 

I think it's terrible and uncalled for to call this poor lady a hooker. She obviously really cares about this man. She does need to break away from him, but comments like this don't help her.

[Vivir]

Savannah,

It seems you are hoping he’ll finally say something that will drive you to action. So, you ask questions and he answers them in ways I’m almost certain he knows will feel like salt in a wound to you. He seems to feel that you won’t go no matter what he says. As such, he feels quite confident pouring salt in your wounds. Maybe he likes it. If I were in his position, I would be cocky on my pedestal, too, I think. Man, he has a wife that makes his life great 99% of the time and you – the woman who, at her own expense, takes up the slack for his wife. Like a lady-in-waiting that never gets to be the debutante.

 

In my opinion, you are gauging how much pain you can bear before you do the thing your Self really wants and needs you to do (which is walk away). I say this because you would not ask for advice if you were 100% OK with this situation. And one of my many mantras these days is if you’re not saying “H3ll yes!” about something, say No.

 

Though the affair I was in didn’t last quite as long as yours has, and I found it next to impossible to remove myself from the situation (so I understand), I eventually realized that I had signed up to a very bad deal and he reaped immense rewards – and I HATED that. Lesson learned the hard way. What finally pushed me over the edge was visual evidence of the life he shared with her. He wasn’t leaving no matter what he said. If it was bad at home, it was probably due to his making it bad. And it is an understatement to say he was a liar. As you know, one can lie in more ways than one. I honestly believe he either believed his lies or he was so adept at lying that it was like second nature. Over time, I learned that we probably would not have made it even if he were single because our core values were not on the same wavelength. But I digress. Your MM does lie. He also tells you truths – perhaps because he knows they will hurt you but you will continue to stay. My advice here is to find your own way to shake up the apple cart by stopping.

 

I have this quote in my journal that reads “A year from now you’ll wish you had started today.” It may take baby steps to walk away. But the longer you wait, the less Time you’ll have for what really matters in Life (YOU). You are your number one priority whether you want to be or not. You can start right now righting this ship for your best interests.

 

 

So lets do some hooker math.

 

LOL @ hooker math. Looks back and wishes I had asked for money up front. Perhaps that boundary would've saved me in the short and long run.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Vivir
spelling

[BaileyB]

Ok I get that and I know that's sometimes how I feel like am I paid prostitution. But I also know that he talks to me a lot outside of work.. like almost every few hours he's checking in with me on the weekends and evenings at home. So.. doesn't that mean he's somewhat emotionally attached?

 

He know that he has to put a little effort into doing these things to keep you interested. A little time and attention your way pays big dividends in return...

[Overtaxed]

Ok I get that and I know that's sometimes how I feel like am I paid prostitution. But I also know that he talks to me a lot outside of work.. like almost every few hours he's checking in with me on the weekends and evenings at home. So.. doesn't that mean he's somewhat emotionally attached?

 

No, not at all. I've had long relationships with women who I was totally unattached to emotionally. What it really means is that he values his time less than his money. Sending you a few messages a day probably takes him an hour total. A prostitute costs 100-200 per hour, so, his time is worth less than that (in his eyes).

 

Simple fact, he's treating you as a prostitute and paying you in TXT messages/e-mails. Same thing happened to my wife. When it was exposed, the OM was gone in a flash. This is the reality of infidelity for most OW, the man does not love you, his ACTIONS tell you otherwise. If he's not willing to break it off with his W to be with you, that's all you need to know. Best, BEST case, he loves her more than he loves you. Worst case (and more likely, IMHO) you're a "sidepiece" in his eyes, a toy that he gets to have sex with. Trust me, I know plenty of men with women on the side, the way they talk about you (the OW) would make anyone contemplating entering a relationship with a married man run for the hills.

[freengreen]

I think it's terrible and uncalled for to call this poor lady a hooker. She obviously really cares about this man. She does need to break away from him, but comments like this don't help her.

Yeah, I did feel the same way when I read the post, but as long as we dont see it in the same way the other person is seeing it ( OP's AP).. we will be in the fog right?. The guy is using her and OP dosnt want to see it that way because she thinks its rude on her part to say so and hopes for an emotional attachment

 

But it is what it is.. the longer you spare yourself seeing the ugly truth, the longer you stay in it.

[freengreen]

Ok I get that and I know that's sometimes how I feel like am I paid prostitution. But I also know that he talks to me a lot outside of work.. like almost every few hours he's checking in with me on the weekends and evenings at home. So.. doesn't that mean he's somewhat emotionally attached?

 

You will know by his actions if he does, love is a great thing, if it really happens, it shows.... right now, he is trying all tricks in the book to get into you over and over again.

[oldshirt]

A prostitute costs 100-200 per hour, so, his time is worth less than that (in his eyes).

 

Simple fact, he's treating you as a prostitute and paying you in TXT messages/e-mails. .

 

This is an important piece.

 

He is paying you in little bits of emotional kibbles that keep you coming back and keep you servicing him.

 

The prostitute does it for cash on the barrel. You are doing it for little kibbles of emotional stimulation.

 

What his actual feelings are is pretty irrelevant because his actions are that he is maintaining a home and family life with his wife while getting weekly BJs from you.

 

He has told you to your face that he is keeping a life with her and that your current association with him is what it is and what it always will be.

 

This IS what your relationship with him is and what it always will be. He has told you that upfront and he has been congruent with that with his actions.

 

His WORDS are your payment for your services. Words and emotional kibbles are the currency here that is being exchanged for your BJs.

 

cont.....

[oldshirt]

... so the question you need to be asking yourself here is are his words and his txts enough payment for your services?? That is your question.

 

If the answer is yes, then you can continue to exchange BJs for several txts a day indefinitely and this is all simply consenting adults fulfilling a mutually beneficial arrangement and all is good (...the issue of his wife is a separate issue)

 

However if you are unsatisfied with this arrangement and you feel that your compensation is not adequate or in accordance with current market value, (I believe somebody mentioned $100-200/hr as the going rate for professional sex providers) then you'll need to renegotiate, like any other contractual dispute.

 

He's been honest and upfront about this and about where you stand. He has been honest about what he wants and what he's willing to provide and he has been providing that (texts).

 

So if you are the one with the dispute, it is really all on you to address it and either amend the contract or terminate it.

 

He really has no beef here as he has been getting what he wants and has been paying the agreed upon price.

[oldshirt]

I think it's terrible and uncalled for to call this poor lady a hooker. She obviously really cares about this man. She does need to break away from him, but comments like this don't help her.

 

Whoe! Back up!

 

Take a look back through my posts and the previous posts leading up to it.

 

I did NOT! call her a prostitute. She is not a prostitute and no one including myself has called her one.

 

She had stated that she felt like he was treating her like a $40 hooker.

 

I pointed out that a $40 hooker walks away with $40 in her hand and that $40 for a BJ a week for 5 years would have added up to over $10,000.

 

what she is seeking here in exchange for her oral services is not money but emotion affirmations. He txts her several emotional kibbles a day and makes her feel connected to him. That is the currency that exchanging hands here.

 

What I and a number of other posters are pointing out here, is that she exchanging sexual services for emotional kibbles kind of like a sea lion trainer throwing a seal a hunk of a sardine for balancing a ball on it's nose.

 

The man has stated upfront that he is committed to maintaining his marriage and is still engaged in a marital sexlife with his wife and he has also told her to her face that he will not be leaving his wife in order to have a traditional relationship with her.

 

They have a contract. She provides BJs and he provides emotional kibbles by way of txts throughout the day.

 

It is on her to determine if that is a fair and mutually equitable arrangement or not and if it is not, her options are either renegotiate the terms or terminate the contract.

 

All some of us have done is point out what the going rate for BJs and hourly service of prostitution is for comparison.

 

what they negotiate and agree upon is up to them.

[Savannah2]

I'm not offended by the prostitute comment.. I was the one who said it initiallly. I do feel like our physical interactions are lacking intimacy. The only time we are together physically is a few stolen moments here and there at work. Clothes are always on because we are always worried about someone walking in and getting caught. He won't meet me outside of work. His wife tracks his phone.

[FoundMyStrength]

I'm not offended by the prostitute comment.. I was the one who said it initiallly. I do feel like our physical interactions are lacking intimacy. The only time we are together physically is a few stolen moments here and there at work. Clothes are always on because we are always worried about someone walking in and getting caught. He won't meet me outside of work. His wife tracks his phone.

 

I have one question for you -- Why are you doing this? What are you getting out of it?

 

He doesn't appear to have feelings for you. The sex with him doesn't sound very fulfilling. He occasionally texts you outside work, but it doesn't seem like there's much intimacy in the texts. It's definitely not an affair relationship-type thing like a lot of long-term OWs describe on this forum.

 

But you must be getting something from it, and that's why you stay. My best advice is to figure out what that is, and try to find it elsewhere. In other activities, other friends or family, a new romantic partner. Because with those new things, you'll get that "something" he gives you, whatever it is, plus so much more. MM will never be the full package, he will never lead to a fulfilling, meaningful life. Ditch him and seek out your own happiness.

[SoleMate]

Question for you OP:

 

Since you now know exactly what your A is all about, and that there is no hope of an honest 1:1 future with CMM, what is your plan for going forward?

 

A) Continue the affair as is? (Knowing that he could end it or a D-day could end it, both outside your control)

 

B) Continue the affair, but with changes (if so, what?)?

 

C) End the affair?

 

Whoops, another question:

 

How much longer do you want to be having this affair?

 

A) <1 minute, just long enough to block and delete

 

B) 1 month, while I work with a counselor on coping, self-esteem, and making life choices

 

C) 1 year

 

D) 10 years

 

E) The rest of my life until he gets tired of me and goes NC

 

Hoping you make the right choices for YOU and live a life that makes sense. Imagine yourself many years from now, knowing your life is drawing to a close. What will you look back on? Will you feel you spent your life the right way?

[Savannah2]

I think my issue is I am completely obsessed with him. When I'm with him I feel so alive and I really enjoy talking to him and just being around him. I am so physically attracted to him too. I still feel this way after five years. I miss talking to him when I can't. I wish I didn't feel this way about him but I do and I'm afraid I always will. He knows how crazy I am about him too and I don't understand why he would ever turn away from someone so clearly into him.

[imsosad]

Savannah, I think you're projecting your feelings and motivations to him.

You let him,as you say, put his D in your mouth because of some emotional connection you have, therefore you assume he does the same, with similar motivation. This is where you are sadly, bitterly mistaken. He doesnt need to feel a thing to want you to give him oral sex. What's more, he seems to want to keep it very limited, no strings atached encounters. Nothing about the way he treats you speaks of emotion. You don't treat someone you like,let alone love, as a back alley bj.

If he cared about you he would want to hold you, kiss you, have sex with you and spend the night with you. Hey, he could do all that and still not be in love.

What are you getting out of this relationship? A couple of texts? One sided,unfullfilling sex? Have you considered he likes this quickie bj because it's zero effort on his part? I bet at home he is super focused on making his wife happy in bed, you are his stress relief.

You do it to yourself. Good news is, it's up to you to stop it.

Have you considered counselling? Quite honestly, I believe this degrading affair you got going on is a symptom and not the cause of your unhappines. Tolerating an affair that redefines 'crumbs' for years and years, while insisting on an imagined emotional connection reflects very distorted thinking. He's not going to suddenly fall in love with you if you keep the weekly routine going.

What is it about him you live so much? Wild guess-you have a savior fantasy attached to this guy, like he can turn your life around and make everything ok ,if only...

Well, the only person who can turn your life around and make tou happy is you,but that takes about a ton of work.

I really hope you find your way out of this. It sounds humiliating,insulting, just sad.

[imsosad]

I think my issue is I am completely obsessed with him. When I'm with him I feel so alive and I really enjoy talking to him and just being around him. I am so physically attracted to him too. I still feel this way after five years. I miss talking to him when I can't. I wish I didn't feel this way about him but I do and I'm afraid I always will. He knows how crazy I am about him too and I don't understand why he would ever turn away from someone so clearly into him.

 

Oldest story in the book. You want what you cant have. The more unattainable and unavailable he is, the more you want him. The worse he treats you,the higher you think of him.

Why wouldnt he want someone so in to him?

As he has told you,he loves his wife.

Moreover, he gets exactly what he wants from you. Im not trying to put you down, so try to read the harsh words with a kind tone: nobody wants a doormat. He doesnt respect you. He sees you as a pushover. You think more of him than you do of yourself and so does he.

It doesnt mean you are any less worthy than him or anyone else. It is the way you present yourself,though.

[jah526]

As he has told you,he loves his wife.

 

What does love mean to these guys anyway? It certainly doesn't involve being faithful. Just curious.

[BaileyB]

I do feel like our physical interactions are lacking intimacy. The only time we are together physically is a few stolen moments here and there at work. Clothes are always on because we are always worried about someone walking in and getting caught. He won't meet me outside of work. His wife tracks his phone.

 

If that is the case, then what are you really getting from this "relationship?"

 

There is no emotional connection - you feel attached to him, attracted to him, "obsessed" with him... And he sees you as - the girl who will duck into a closet wih him for a few minutes to give him a little oral attention to make the work day a little more enjoyable? He definitely wants to keep this very limited... He's not even offering you many crumbs - why is that ok with you?

 

This is not love. You deserve more than this from a man. You know that, right?

 

And, if his wife tracks his phone, that speaks to some serious mistrust in the relationship. Are you sure you are not the only woman who's had his D in their mouth? It really makes me wonder...

[imsosad]

And, if his wife tracks his phone, that speaks to some serious mistrust in the relationship. Are you sure you are not the only woman who's had his D in their mouth? It really makes me wonder...

 

Or, he says his wife tracks his phone so he doesnt have to bother too much with the OP after hours.

Or both, even though seems to me he would get a kick out of dangling his other OW in front of OP's face, he obviously likes the bad boy act with her and I doubt it would make her drop him.