GemmaUK Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 I totally understand what you mean about what you like and want. The only issue for me personally would be that no matter the atmosphere I am not going to feel romantic nor sexy in work clothes when out on a date. How I 'feel' on a date is what is important to me therefore wearing work clothes wouldn't work for me. You just need to realise that there will be women out there who don't have lots of the types of clothing you would require them to wear to these places. Even if you could get a dress that fitted perfectly for $30 it's unlikely you'll find a bunch more dresses that fit as well for the same price. Going back to coloured jeans too - to get decent material that feels really good and fits involves a higher budget. In the UK you're looking at around £150 for a good pair of coloured jeans. Personally I'd rather spend £50 on a great pair of dark blues. Perhaps what you need to look for is a woman whose hobby is clothes shopping - it's possible she would have all the right kit and clothes you would be happy with. 1
basil67 Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 (edited) Perhaps we need context here. Just how often are you wanting to take a woman out to a semi-formal restaurant? I'm trying to get my head around how many outfits she would require. I looked in my wardrobe and have two suitable summer dresses. My funeral dress would do at a pinch in autumn and spring. I have nothing much for winter, so I'd be wearing nice leggings, biker boots and a tunic. Or perhaps my calf length, fitted black sweater dress and knee length witchy/goth boots. I did have more nice winter clothes, but my boobs got too big and I had to get rid of them. I can't find any nice replacements because fashion houses don't make clothes to flatter a body with my size boobs. I hope you're taking girls to more than semi-formal, romantic restaurants. Some great food can be found at Asian restaurants with formica tables and bright lighting. Dinner in the outdoor area at a pub can be a terrific way to spend a warm evening. The local Italian restaurant can make for a relaxed evening. Romantic venues certainly have their place. But don't underestimate the beauty of a fun and relaxed atmosphere. If I had four nights out, I'd probably choose one from each of the above plus one romantic evening. The romantic evening is more special if it's not done so frequently. Edited March 6, 2017 by basil67 left out a word
Els Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 I just want a woman to have an enjoyable date. Well, I think most women would enjoy the occasional romantic dinner, but most people enjoy some sort of variety, too. There's really no need to make a huge fuss over where you're going. During the times that you want to go to a nicer place, just say, "Let me take you to (insert place name here). I've heard it has great (insert food here)". It's extremely unlikely that she would have issues with it. Honestly though, expecting to split the bill 75/25 or whatever is just plain strange. If you want that, then pay for the nicer dinners and let her pay for the cheaper ones where she picks the place. And yes, IMO, it's normal to go to casual places sometimes, and also normal for both of you to dress down for those places. I'm also confused about what your expectations are. Again, it's fairly unlikely that most women would have issues dressing relatively appropriately for an elegant restaurant, especially if you have an open mind towards what 'appropriate' means. So I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble with that. But if you have very specific ideas in mind as to what you'd want her to wear, you're gonna have a bad time. 1
introverted1 Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 Agree completely with the post above. Your issue is around clothing, not ambiance or food. You seem to have a very narrow view of acceptable clothing, and I say this as someone who has a reasonably extensive non-jeans wardrobe (in large part because I live in Florida where it is too hot to wear jeans most of the year). Fact is, at most restaurants, even those that are "upscale casual" (or whatever you call it), jeans are perfectly ok, like this or this. If you want a woman who dresses a particular way, then you need to say so in your profile and quit making it a complicated guessing game. Yes, you will eliminate some women by doing so, but since this seems to be a critical issue for you that's your best option. 2
d0nnivain Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 Let's say your date suggests a restaurant for dinner and describes it as "upscale casual". What comes to mind? What would you expect things like interior decor and tables to be like? What would you wear to such an establishment? What is your overall perception? Now, let's say that the description "casual fine dining" is used. What are your answers? How about for "casual elegant"? What about "fancy but not formal"? I've caught dates off guard in the past by using the incorrect terminology for my descriptions, so I am hoping to learn what people's perceptions are of the terms I am using. Any ideas are greatly appreciated. Those terms / phrases only exist in your head. The dress codes are: Black tie / formal which means wear a tux & a gown. Semi formal which means were a cocktail dress & a suit & tie Business attire -- suit on both or at least a dress & jack for her Resort casual -- sundress for her, sports coat for him Casual -- neat bit not sloppy Come as you are -- anything goes I am trying to figure out the proper term to put in my OLD profile. I am finding that I cannot get too wordy in indicating restaurants that are not "formal" as in black tie -- that term does not create confusion, but all other phrases I have used mean something different to every person. Rarely do I suggest black tie formal restaurants. I cannot find the words to communicate that I tend to gravitate toward restaurants more casual than black tie formal, but LESS casual than Red Lobster, Fridays, or Olive Garden. As you are trying to put this in a profile, I'd go with something along the lines of I enjoy dinner dates but am not a huge fan of a chain restaurants or dives. While they have their places, they are not my favorites. I prefer places like [name 2-3]. If you prefer something more elegant than jeans too, we might be able to get a reservation at some of my favorite places but I'd enjoy looking for new upscale haunts with you. Do discuss the restaurant choice with your date before taking her there. For example it wasn't a date but I met my college roommate in NYC over the weekend. We were bar hopping in Greenwich Village with our husbands when she announces she wants to go to Le Cirque for dinner. If you are not familiar with it, it's one of the fanciest restaurants in NYC. I'm in a bar downtown in jeans & she wants to put on cocktail dresses & suits. Ummm. . . .no. The timing was all wrong. I would have been more than happy to go there if she told me her plan days in advance. 3
rester Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 My questions apply to first dates, dates in committed relationships, married couple dates, and all stages in between. Let's say your date suggests a restaurant for dinner and describes it as "upscale casual". What comes to mind? What would you expect things like interior decor and tables to be like? What would you wear to such an establishment? What is your overall perception? Now, let's say that the description "casual fine dining" is used. What are your answers? How about for "casual elegant"? What about "fancy but not formal"? I've caught dates off guard in the past by using the incorrect terminology for my descriptions, so I am hoping to learn what people's perceptions are of the terms I am using. Any ideas are greatly appreciated. None of those descriptions say "get dressed up" to me. What comes to mind is a nice sushi restaurant with no dress code. Why not say in your profile that you "enjoy getting dressed up and taking dates to upscale restaurants?" 3
RecentChange Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 What part of the country is this? I want to know where these restaurants are for which jeans are inappropriate, but yet the bill for two is going to be less than $300+. Hailing from the Bay Area, where were have many nice dining options, yet causal dress is welcome at most. I can think of many spots that would make an excellent venue for a romantic dinner, yet are "casual". Not screaming snot nosed kid, flip flops and tank tops casual - but restaurants with dress codes are few and far between. They have fine fine food, good wine, lovely ambiance, excellent service, and no dress codes. Jeans would be appropriate. (and I am going to be a snob and say Olive Garden, and the rest of the subpar chains aren't even on the radar, wouldn't dream of going to such a place ) I agree with others, this isn't about the restaurant, this is about how you would like women to dress. I dress business / business casual for work. I like dresses and have a bunch from more formal to very casual. For ME, dressing how you prefer wouldn't be a problem at all. But its not about the restaurant. Its about the clothes. 1
basil67 Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 Those terms / phrases only exist in your head. Thanks d0nnivain. I thought it was just me who had no idea what dress codes he was trying to describe.
normal person Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 That is why I am trying to find a woman who enjoys dressing up, so that we can together enjoy the romantic atmosphere of establishments like this one. It's about the atmosphere of the restaurant more than it's about the food and the attire combined. It just so happens that such restaurants will basically serve excellent quality food, and that informal dressy attire is what's most appropriate for this atmosphere. Would it not make more sense to prioritize finding a woman who can enrich your life anywhere, at any sort of restaurant, rather than try to find one specifically that wants to eat a particular kind of restaurant? The "romance" you feel shouldn't be such a large byproduct of ambience or candles or tablecloth. If you like nice food and fine dining, fine. But you're making it sound like you're prioritizing those things over the actual woman, and it's very odd to me. Why not find someone you like as an individual first, rather than any woman capable of dressing a particular way needed to go to a restaurant you like? Is some of this making sense now? Not really.
anduina Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 'If you enjoy immersing in romantic ambiance dining which includes casual elegant attire, we share a commonality'. Guys on online dating apps don't usually enjoy this since they're volume dating so they don't want to spend the money.
Ronni_W Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 That is why I am trying to find a woman who enjoys dressing up, so that we can together enjoy the romantic atmosphere of establishments like this one. It's about the atmosphere of the restaurant What you are (and/or your date is) wearing and where you are sitting (whatever establishment or location) has absolutely NOTHING to do with the type of romantic 'vibe' (atmosphere) you will be able to generate or perceive and enjoy. Naked in a hot tub, jeans and sneakers at a baseball game, bathing suits and flip-flops on the beach. You are looking at outer appearances while trying to generate or artificially create (through clothing) a sense or feeling that is internal. Also, just because you can't 'enjoy a romantic atmosphere' by just being in your own skin (mind and heart) does not mean that other people (women) need to be wearing this or that to be able to just relax and enjoy whatever situation they may find themselves in...no matter the establishment or location...and no matter what they are or are not wearing.
d0nnivain Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 What you are (and/or your date is) wearing and where you are sitting (whatever establishment or location) has absolutely NOTHING to do with the type of romantic 'vibe' (atmosphere) you will be able to generate or perceive and enjoy. Naked in a hot tub, jeans and sneakers at a baseball game, bathing suits and flip-flops on the beach. You are looking at outer appearances while trying to generate or artificially create (through clothing) a sense or feeling that is internal. Also, just because you can't 'enjoy a romantic atmosphere' by just being in your own skin (mind and heart) does not mean that other people (women) need to be wearing this or that to be able to just relax and enjoy whatever situation they may find themselves in...no matter the establishment or location...and no matter what they are or are not wearing. Yes & no. People do have to be comfortable in their own skin & romance can happen anywhere in any attire. However, the OPs desire to date somebody who appreciates getting dressed up & fine dining, does go to compatibility. In America anymore casual is the norm. It's not that easy to find people who are comfortable, let alone enjoy, more elegant venues & all the trappings that go with. Multiple forks make a lot of people nervous. Somebody who lives their whole life casual is not going to be a good match for the OP. What he enjoys she would find dull; similarly if she tried to relegate him to a low key life of casual & go with the flow, depriving him of the pageantry, of multiple courses, finger bowls, chandeliers etc. he would feel something is missing in his life & their relationship.
OatsAndHall Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 "What do you feel like eating tonight, hun?" "I haven't had Italian in awhile." "How does The Olive Garden sound?" "Sounds good, babe." Or.. "What do you feel like tonight?" "Italian sounds great!" "Do you want to go to Olive Garden?" "No, I really don't care for their food." "Do you like The Macaroni Grill?" "That'd be nice." Done and done. This is how I have always approached it on dates. There is only an issue if they request something that's too expensive for me at the time. In that case, I will tell them that I can't afford it. I did have a third date with a woman who wanted to go to an expensive Mediterranean bistro that a) I had gotten food poisoning from and b) was far too pricey for me. I had offered to pay but I asked her if there was anywhere else she wanted to go as I had gotten sick there. She was kind of upset that I shot the place down and the date wasn't much fun. Needless to say, there wasn't a fourth.
carhill Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 My questions apply to first dates, dates in committed relationships, married couple dates, and all stages in between. Survey says: Let's say your date suggests a restaurant for dinner and describes it as "upscale casual". What comes to mind? Being greeted and seated and likely with advance reservations. What would you expect things like interior decor and tables to be like? Simple and tasteful, reflecting the local culture and theme of the restaurateur. Tables perhaps spaced tighter than a higher end place and set with decent flatware and glassware but no fancy decorations or linens but cloth napkins, not paper. What would you wear to such an establishment? Business casual, probably a sport jacket for dinner What is your overall perception? Wouldn't likely do it for a first date unless the lady and I had a long history socially and dating just made it into that milieu. For example if one or both of us had been married prior and knew each other socially and things 'clicked' when we were both single. Now, let's say that the description "casual fine dining" is used. What are your answers? How about for "casual elegant"? What about "fancy but not formal"?Definitely not a first date. Here's an example of that, a place we've actually been to, Patsy's in NYC. Ran into Nancy Sinatra there. Still, reservations were easy, we could speak casually with the owners at any time (they came around to the tables), but decidedly more formal in ambience, service, cuisine/presentation. One 'down-home' thing I enjoyed was hitting the stairs to take a leak in the basement bathrooms. Good balance of the ambience upstairs in the dining room. We were dressed smart casual and took my MIL there and didn't feel out of place though folks like Ms Sinatra were definitely dressed more formally. I've caught dates off guard in the past by using the incorrect terminology for my descriptions, so I am hoping to learn what people's perceptions are of the terms I am using. Any ideas are greatly appreciated. Here's how I usually handle it, again not on first dates..... I ask the lady on a date and, if she's interested, I'll say something like 'how does xxx on Friday night sound?' If she's good to go, every woman I've known, including the one I married, are far better at matching their attire and demeanor to the venue than I'll ever be so I leave it to her. If she asks me 'oh, xxxx, what are you wearing?', I'll tell her. On the rare occasion my wife didn't know everything ahead of me and the place was nice (this happened mostly when traveling where I knew the local areas better than her), I'd tell her to 'put on the dog' and she knew exactly what to do. Old fart tip. A lady who really likes you makes all of this stuff easy. I've dated them and married one. It's about being together, not the details. Good luck!
Author Wayne0789456 Posted March 7, 2017 Author Posted March 7, 2017 Perhaps we need context here. Just how often are you wanting to take a woman out to a semi-formal restaurant? I'm trying to get my head around how many outfits she would require. Perhaps some expanded context would help. I am happy to clarify in any way. If the rest of the date can work with the attire appropriate for the nicer atmosphere restaurant, then that's the restaurant I look for For instance, maybe seeing a movie, or mini golf, or taking a little road trip to see the fall colors, or a Christmas parade or light show, or if we go out to eat only, things like that. After that, it's about good food and less about the atmosphere. Activities like a stroll (not a hike) in the park, riding a paddleboat, bowling, roller skating, ice skating, then I would suggest something more casual, like Applebee's or Red Lobster, or maybe slightly nicer, but not like the fancy non-formal of the previous paragraph. Bike riding, tennis, hiking, basketball, would be a non-chain diner or family style restaurant, if we weren't dirty, or even a concession stand if there was one that serves more than just light snacks. Fourth of July fireworks, county fair, other similar festivals would be the festival food from the food booth(s) that are set up for the event. I do enjoy picnics in the park, as well, as those can be romantic, too. I've even had a few pizzas delivered to where we were in the park. I do even like to go to chains sometimes, like when Red Lobster does Endless Shrimp, I like going 3 or 4 times, or when the Olive Garden does the Never-Ending Pasta Bowl. The outright formal restaurants might be two or three times a year, like Valentine's Day, her birthday, maybe once for its own sake, for example. During the winter, when the weather is too cold to really be doing anything outdoors, my preference for the nicer restaurants is a little heavier than usual, but in the summer, especially during festival season, we could go two months without a suggestion, from me, for a nicer restaurant. I hope you're taking girls to more than semi-formal, romantic restaurants. Does that sound like a variety to you? My dates end up wanting the nicer ones cut out altogether, even if it's less than 50% of the time, and that is my frustration. And yes, IMO, it's normal to go to casual places sometimes, and also normal for both of you to dress down for those places. You will get no argument from me with that statement. As much as I like, and prefer, the nicer atmosphere, I would be missing out, as well, if I NEVER went to a more casual establishment. I am in complete agreement that there needs to be a balance, but the balance has always been too much casual to the exclusion of the dressier. I'm also confused about what your expectations are. Did any of this post clear some of it up? So I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble with that. I would give anything to figure out what is going on. Women tell me, before the first date, that they enjoy nicer restaurants, but after a number of dates, if I suggest a classy non-formal place I'm asked for another suggestion, until I suggest something casual. It's almost unheard of to get a request for a re-suggestion of a casual place, unless she knows of that place and already knows that the food is bad or something like that, and even that is rare.
basil67 Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) Wayne, I want to help and I have ideas floating around my head, but first I have more questions. 1. What do you mean by "classy non-formal" place? To me, it's an oxymoron. If it's classy, I wear something a bit special. If it's non-formal, I'll wear casual. Please don't name restaurants because I'm not in the US. Instead, give a description of what that restaurant might be like. 2. Are the nicer restaurants you choose out of the price range of the women you date? 3. What is the end result of the dating/relationships where this mismatch is a problem? Do they end it with you or you end it with them? Are you finding any commonality in the reasons for why the relationship ends? 4. What age range are we talking here? Are women at the age where they want to spend less on clothes and eating out and might prefer to be saving for buying a home? 5. Do you ever suggest cooking yourself and just hanging out at home watching movies? (Something where you'd both be wearing home clothes without question) If so, how often? Edited March 7, 2017 by basil67
TheTraveler Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 I do even like to go to chains sometimes, like when Red Lobster does Endless Shrimp, I like going 3 or 4 times, or when the Olive Garden does the Never-Ending Pasta Bowl. I don't I wouldn't waste a penny at these frozen microwave food restaurants. You can always find a local equivalent restaurant that is much better for the same price versus stuffing your face with crappy shrimp and endless garbage pasta bowls. I thought you liked eclectic and atmospheric restaurants Wayne. Guess not. Good to know OP 1
GemmaUK Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 If the rest of the date can work with the attire appropriate for the nicer atmosphere restaurant, then that's the restaurant I look for For instance, maybe seeing a movie, or mini golf, or taking a little road trip to see the fall colors, or a Christmas parade or light show, or if we go out to eat only, things like that. If was was dressed up in the earlier suggestion of a LBD and 5 inch heels then I we did any of the above and I was asked to then go someplace where I couldn't at least kick my shoes off I wouldn't be happy. I'd just be wanting quick food and home asap to get comfortable. 5 inch heels would mean door to door for me only - in fact I don't ever wear 5 inch heels - my absolute maximum would be 3 inches with door to door. There's no way I'd play mini golf or a Christmas parade in heels that high. You do actually tell these ladies what the plan is before going out and just how much walking and walking about in the cold there will be don't you? BTW - I don't understand 'classy, non formal 'either - that to me would imply jeans is perfectly fine.
clia Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 I don't see anywhere where the OP is demanding his date wear 5 inch heels. He's expressed examples of what he is talking about above --i.e. colored jeans, dress pants, or a skirt with a blouse or sweater with flats. He agreed with Els' described outfit above, of a $30 dress with flats. I think his use of the word "formal" is misleading, because it doesn't sound like he's typically (outside of special occasions) looking for cocktail dresses and high heels -- just something dressier than blue jeans and tennis shoes. And to be honest, I'm flabbergasted that it's that difficult to find women who don't mind getting somewhat dressed up every now and then for a nice dinner. (OP said above he might go two months without suggesting a restaurant like this.) This doesn't demand a great number of outfits. A few cute dresses with tights and boots, skinny black jeans with a cute top and flats/heels, a pencil skirt with a cute top and booties, or the like. I just feel like there is something else going on here that we are all missing, because I honestly don't know anyone who doesn't have at least two or three outfits that don't consist of jeans or yoga pants. And especially in the summer, it is very popular here to wear cute summer dresses with sandals to festivals and the like. OP, how old are the women you are dating? Do you live in or near a major city? Is it common to go to restaurants that aren't chains where you live? 3
Els Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 I would give anything to figure out what is going on. Women tell me, before the first date, that they enjoy nicer restaurants, but after a number of dates, if I suggest a classy non-formal place I'm asked for another suggestion, until I suggest something casual. It's almost unheard of to get a request for a re-suggestion of a casual place, unless she knows of that place and already knows that the food is bad or something like that, and even that is rare. Haha, nope, I got nothing in that case. Like clia says, I think most people (above college-going age, anyway) have at least a couple of outfits that aren't completely inappropriate for classier venues, and IME lots of women actually enjoy being taken out on a date to them. Also I don't know about where you live, but I have never actually encountered anyone who said they couldn't go to dinner at a nice place because they have nothing to wear. Typically people just wear whatever they have and it really turns out fine. You sure there isn't anything else going on here? Like are you actually telling these women "I want you to wear X" or "I want us to go to X place and I want you to pay Y% of the bill" or something? 1
introverted1 Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 I can't get away from the fact that I think you are conflating issues: how someone dresses the ambiance at a restaurant the food served I am a foodie and, for me, the choice of where to go to dinner is all about the food. On a rare occasion, I might opt for ambiance > food but, for the most part, I am all about the food. The last thing on my list is what I would have to wear. I don't base my decision about where to eat on what I'd have to wear and I find it odd that your dates do. When a date asks me my preference of eating at place A, B, or C, it comes down to what I'm in the mood to eat (Indian vs Thai or whatever) and where the food is best. So, like Elswyth, I wonder if you aren't layering in some other requirement. I find it mind boggling that this is such a struggle unless there is something deeper going on. 2
Ronni_W Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 I would give anything to figure out what is going on. Women tell me, before the first date, that they enjoy nicer restaurants, but after a number of dates, I agree with Elswyth - there is something else at play here, that has nothing to do with an OLD profile; it's happening 'after a number of dates'. Wayne, I get that you're trying to figure it out -- but I think you can cross off the list that the problem (and its solution) might be found by just studying and restudying your restaurant descriptions. Have you asked, or are you open to asking, the women you date why they reject certain restaurant suggestions? It seems that you have decided (on their behalf, as it were) that, for them, it is about attire...but without actually finding out if your assumption is accurate. 2
Author Wayne0789456 Posted March 8, 2017 Author Posted March 8, 2017 1. What do you mean by "classy non-formal" place? To me, it's an oxymoron. If it's classy, I wear something a bit special. If it's non-formal, I'll wear casual. Please don't name restaurants because I'm not in the US. Instead, give a description of what that restaurant might be like. I will paste something that I wrote in post #26, so that's why it shows up as a quote. There's more in that post if more would be helpful. When I look on the internet, as a guideline, I initially look for tablecloths and cloth napkins. Many have decorative lighting, that don't really light the place but do add class to the establishment. If I see that they have a wine list, even though I do not drink wine, it s an indicator of class. I look for low ambient lighting, and I LOVE when tables have those little candles on them. Very, very romantic. Those are the types of restaurants I like to enjoy with dates. 2. Are the nicer restaurants you choose out of the price range of the women you date? Perhaps a little more, but not dramatically. Maybe $10 or $12 more for both of us than a typical casual check, but if she wants to contribute I do not mind putting in that difference. I own my own business; I understand that if my date is working a retail job, for instance, she is more sensitive to those numbers, whereas $10 or $15 more once a week for a date doesn't matter much. I get a non-financial benefit from the experience, especially if I see that she enjoys the experience. I get more satisfaction from seeing that she is having a good time than I do from miserly letting $10 sit in the bank. 3. What is the end result of the dating/relationships where this mismatch is a problem? Do they end it with you or you end it with them? Are you finding any commonality in the reasons for why the relationship ends? No relationship has ended over this issue, specifically, as I ultimately end up going to fewer nice restaurants than I would like, to accommodate her. And ending up frustrated in the end. A lot of them, I guess, is because one or both of us change over time, as we all do, and we are no longer compatible. One I can think of thought she wanted kids, but nearly a year in realized that she didn't. Two were in, basically minimum-wage-range jobs that they hated, had ideas for careers that they would enjoy, but never pursued then because it was "too hard". But whatever. Another turned out to be co-dependent. So, basically, the things that would break us up would actual mismatches in deep-rooted values. As for the restaurant interest, the women I date appear to be on the same page as me before we meet, and for a good month, often two, after meeting, but after that when I suggest a nicer restaurant like I described, I just get asked if we can go somewhere else, and I notice that she agrees when I name some place more casual, and therein begins the frustration over the lack of variety in restaurant atmospheres. This, without fail. I did have the opportunity, once, to gain some feedback, and she saw the nicer restaurants as "pointless", partly because dressing casually was easier than the dressy attire even if such attire isn't formal, and that she felt underdressed too casually for a nicer restaurant. It can't be the same reason for everyone, but we were a mismatch on that one, as I do not give the attire a second thought, whether I dress ultra-casually or semi-formal or black tie formal myself, or anywhere in between, I just dress it without a second thought, but I guess she wanted to stay casual all the time. 4. What age range are we talking here? Are women at the age where they want to spend less on clothes and eating out and might prefer to be saving for buying a home? 30s, mostly, though you could include, say, 29 or 28, "close" to 30, though I am communicating with a 40 right now, so basically 30s with the fringes of the surrounding decades. But, whether she is 29 or 39 or somewhere in between, thee's little difference on this issue. Here again, I understand someone wanting to make a goal, especially if I have achieved the same goal already for myself. I'm willing to put in more than 50%, or someone on here suggested that I pay the more expensive restaurants and she get the less expensive. Your point is why I am often willing to put in more than half, sometimes the most equitable does not mean equal raw dollar amounts, and that is certainly true if her income is lower than mine. 5. Do you ever suggest cooking yourself and just hanging out at home watching movies? (Something where you'd both be wearing home clothes without question) If so, how often? Done it. Not too often. I don't find cooking to be a "chore", but I just don't have the talent. I can make spaghetti, I do make a good pasta salad. I very badly want to make myself homemade chili, but every time I try it's all wrong. I'd love to cook a candlelit dinner for a date for Valentine's day, for instance, but I don't have the cooking skills to do a proper dinner. I don't see anywhere where the OP is demanding his date wear 5 inch heels. He's expressed examples of what he is talking about above --i.e. colored jeans, dress pants, or a skirt with a blouse or sweater with flats. He agreed with Els' described outfit above, of a $30 dress with flats. I think his use of the word "formal" is misleading, because it doesn't sound like he's typically (outside of special occasions) looking for cocktail dresses and high heels -- just something dressier than blue jeans and tennis shoes. Thank you . That's just about perfect. Do you live in or near a major city? Is it common to go to restaurants that aren't chains where you live? I live two towns outside the city limits, but still within the mass transit zone, if that gives you a clue. People go to both the chains and the independents. There is a Ruth Chris Steakhouse and a Capital Grille accessible to me, both of which are fine dining chains found in the largest cities. You sure there isn't anything else going on here? Like are you actually telling these women "I want you to wear X" or "I want us to go to X place and I want you to pay Y% of the bill" or something? Absolutely NOT!!!! I do not tell anyone what to wear, or what they "need" to pay, or tell them that we are going to a certain place case closed. Actually, if you remember from earlier posts, when I suggest something, I get asked for a re-suggestion, and I always suggest something else. Note, also, I'm always the one who ends up frustrated, as I am the one who gives up my side of the interest and goes lopsided toward too many casual places. I hope that explains some things.
Author Wayne0789456 Posted March 9, 2017 Author Posted March 9, 2017 What part of the country is this? I want to know where these restaurants are for which jeans are inappropriate, but yet the bill for two is going to be less than $300+ This is in the northeast. Judging from what some have posted in this thread so far, it seems as though many see only formal (dress code) and casual (no dress code), and most don't see that level in between that I seem to be noticing. It's that in-between level that I have gravitated toward. Does that make sense? I agree with others, this isn't about the restaurant, this is about how you would like women to dress. I dress business / business casual for work. I like dresses and have a bunch from more formal to very casual. For ME, dressing how you prefer wouldn't be a problem at all. But its not about the restaurant. Its about the clothes. I gave an expanded explanation in an earlier post in this thread, it is about the atmosphere of the restaurants. Attire just happens to be related, but THAT is NOT what I think about when looking for a restaurant.
introverted1 Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 You've mentioned four restaurants in this thread- Olive Garden Red Lobster Capital Grille Ruth Chris These are all available in my neck of the woods and jeans (nicer ones, not jeans with holes) would be appropriate at any, although dressier attire would also be fine. I really think you need to stop hiding your requirement behind the type of restaurant you suggest. You're expecting dates to extrapolate that your interest is the ambiance/dress rather than the food, but they may be reacting to the menu (or something else). Why can't you just say you like dressing up for an elegant evening out? Why are you intent on complicating it? 1
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