How do I have "the talk" without messing things up?

[smackie9]

IMO no matter how busy a person is, they can always find the time to send a message...so 4 hours with trains delayed? Plenty of down time to have a conversation......

 

I get you really like this girl, and wish she would commit to seeing you more, and be more of a priority in her life.....that ain't happening. Date other people, and keep her as an option. Never put your life on hold for someone who is barley lukewarm.

 

IMO you are just being used as a fun distraction nothing more....filler.

[ercolgemi]

IMO no matter how busy a person is, they can always find the time to send a message...so 4 hours with trains delayed? Plenty of down time to have a conversation......

That is exactly how my thinking went. A train ride is the perfect time to send a short message. That being said, there are things that can still happen, like cellphones running out of juice, etc. Still, I'm pretty sure I saw her online during this time. I really don't want to think about these things though, if there is one thing I do not want to ever become is a stalker. Therefore, I choose to completely and totally ignore this.

 

I get you really like this girl, and wish she would commit to seeing you more, and be more of a priority in her life.....that ain't happening. Date other people, and keep her as an option. Never put your life on hold for someone who is barley lukewarm. IMO you are just being used as a fun distraction nothing more....filler.

If things don't change in a few weeks, that is exactly what I am going to do.

[TheBathWater]

That is exactly how my thinking went. A train ride is the perfect time to send a short message. That being said, there are things that can still happen, like cellphones running out of juice, etc. Still, I'm pretty sure I saw her online during this time. I really don't want to think about these things though, if there is one thing I do not want to ever become is a stalker. Therefore, I choose to completely and totally ignore this.

 

 

If things don't change in a few weeks, that is exactly what I am going to do.

 

Another possibility I thought of is that she senses your neediness and is creating space between the two of you so that you don't overwhelm her.

 

Again, I do think she likes you, but I honestly don't believe you're going to attract her MORE by feeling insecure and needy. If she is knowingly creating space between the two of you so she isn't overwhelmed by you, then in essence, she is acting like the man. If you initiate 'the talk' wit her, I really don't think it's going to increase her attraction for you.

 

But in any case, whatever her motives are for not being more in touch with you, I feel 100% confident in saying the following:

 

If you want to attract her more, you need to flip the script and start acting like the man and let her be the woman. That means that you give her space and be okay with it until she reaches out to you to initiate the next date/hangout. If you're not exclusive, force yourself to get out and date other women so you feel like you have options. Be busy, and let this current girl do most of the texting/calling/pursuing to get you. Let her start to wonder more about you, let her chase you, because THAT is exactly what will attract her more. Only then might she bring up the possibility of an exclusive relationship with you. Let it be her idea. And if that never happens after another two months of dating, you know she's not the girl for you, and you will have other women around you already to focus on.

 

Now, I say all of this assuming that you want to keep this girl around and that you think it is worth the process. But I understand emotions can be crippling, and that your feelings may be so out of whack right now that no logical advice can overshadow how you feel. It may get to the point that you can't take the feeling anymore and decide to have 'the talk' with her anyway to alleviate your own anxiety, but I do think that that 'talk' will also be your breakup talk. So be wise. You can let your feelings direct you, or you can use your feelings from your current situation as an opportunity for growth.

 

Sounds like you have some thinking to do. I hope it works out for you.

[ercolgemi]

@TunaInTheBrine I see. While I don't necessarily buy into the whole gender roles thing, and I don't understand how I'll let her be the woman by allowing her to pursue me instead of me pursuing her (?), I understand and I agree with your point about backing off and letting her reach out to me. And I now agree, having read through your reply and those of others, that having "the talk" with her at this stage will also make it our "break-up" talk (we can't break up since we're not officially together, but I know what you meant).

 

Guys, since I'm insecure but I don't want to show this to her, would it be okay to post here a transcript of my last voice message to her so that you can judge if it comes across as needy? I just want to feel good about myself and know I wasn't the one who messed it up (or find out that I was, if I was).

[ercolgemi]

Hey, Loveshack community, I'm not doing well. I need your help.

 

So the voice message I sent this girl late on Saturday night (in response to her super-emotional "I'm not doing well" message she had sent me that afternoon) was all about how I sympathized with her situation and I was there for her if she needed me, though I knew she was a strong person and had good friends, etc. I finished it off by saying I wished I could have been there with her during those hard times, but I will record something for her on Sunday in hopes of bringing her a little joy, as "I always want to bring her a little joy".

 

So I did, I sent her a short rec yesterday night, asked her a random funny question about the way I talk about my music, and whether she is actually allowed to drink alcohol in her situation (recovery from a broken rib), because if she is, then we can at some point go to a speakeasy bar in my town, when she feels better. I then asked her to tell me how she's doing and wished her a good night.

 

As much as I absolutely despise being a stalker, today she's been online for a very long time and hasn't said a word to me. Do you think I messed this up? Do you think I was too emotional in my first message? (which, for context, followed a really emotional message of hers) Do you think I made a mistake by asking if she's allowed to drink alcohol and whether she knew what a speakeasy is - considering she's super busy with an internship this month, her regular part-time job, her studies, and also has her recovery to worry about? Keep in mind though - I haven't even asked her out, I've literally just asked whether she can drink alcohol! I mean, I did mention it's because I'd like to go somewhere with her when she feels better, but I haven't asked her to set a date or anything like that.

 

I have been having trouble sleeping this weekend because of this situation, and it has started seriously affecting my work. For those who haven't read through the entire thread, I am trying to rebuild my life after recovering from an illness that ended my previous relationship and prevented me from dating anyone for almost a year. I have come so far as to consider visiting a therapist to see if they can help with my situation. I keep waking up in the middle of the night worried about whether I did anything wrong and re-listening to the messages I sent her (for the record, every time I listen to them, I think "oh that was not that bad!").

 

_______________________________

 

Edit: I should not have asked if she can drink alcohol. She'll see it as me making pressure again, she'll see it as another stress factor on top of all the stress that she already has going on. I should have known she will be super busy for the rest of the month, and also ill. I should have never said anyhing like this before she finishes her internship in 2.5 weeks. Why did I do this? I feel so stupid.

 

Edit 2: Reading my edit above, I can't help but laugh. To be fair, my freak-out periods have been happening less and less frequently since I started this thread. They do still happen, though, as evidenced by my first edit. I think a good way to think about this is: what would I think if she found out about this thread? How embarrassed would I be? This is a good sign that I cannot be this person anymore, if I want things to work out. I have work to do on myself. Sure, I might have been slightly "mind-controlled" into this situation by the hot / cold treatment (which I know I am susceptible to), but that is no excuse. STOP WORRYING is what I need to do. I'm going to try to concentrate on work now. Wish me luck.

Edited March 6, 2017 by ercolgemi

[thecrucible]

Firstly don't feel apologetic or guilty for reaching out to her. You need to own it . It's not a crime to send a nice message to someone. I think the best way to approach these things is to reciprocate equally to what the other person is doing. Don't give too much if you're not getting the same amount back. Just draw back and meet them at their level.

 

I can see why you're anxious to be honest. That's what social media does to me too. You send a message and then you see them online doing other things and not replying and it does make you freak out a little. But the ball is in her court now. If this stuff is affecting your work, you need to take a break from it. In the long run, it's more important to prioritise other things. That way you'll be so absorbed in other things that you won't notice whether she gets back to you. Even if you have to force it in the beginning, it's worth it.

[ercolgemi]

Hey guys, I had started a previous thread about another situation with this same girl, but the circumstances and my questions have changed so much that I don't feel like it makes sense to continue with that one.

 

Very quick backstory: I have been "seeing" this girl for 5 weeks now, but she often tends to alternate between writing very long, sweet, intricate messages and completely vanishing for a few days at a time. We met 4 times and she already slept over on our 3rd date - and every time we meet, she seems to be having an amazing time.

 

She has a tendency to want to answer to every single point that I make in my messages to her, so she always ends up writing longer things than I do. For this reason, I always try to write shorter messages than she does - because I feel like if I don't "close up" a topic by ceasing to mention it after a couple of exchanges, it carries on for weeks at a a time throughout our messages. I have only once seriously broken this rule of writing her shorter messages than she does, last time I wrote her - and I felt I was justified. More details coming.

 

The last time I heard from her was on Saturday, when she told me she was in a terrible state, both physically (because of recovering from a broken rib) and mentally (because of having attended her terminally ill mother's wedding to an alcoholic the day before). This was in the form of a 3-minute long voice message from her.

 

Therefore, about 4 hours later, I wrote her back another 3-minute long message, in which I did not ask any questions at all, I did not make any pressure with anything at all - I only said in the most understanding voice I could fathom how much I sympathize with her, how sorry I was that this happened, etc. I finished it off by saying she should let me know how she feels tomorrow (Sunday), and that I might record a short piece for her as a good-night song tomorrow (I'm a musician and so far she's loved it when I've done that).

 

Since she did not get back to me on Sunday, I did as promised and sent her another 3-minute long message on Sunday night which consisted of about 2 minutes of music and one minute of random superficial questions - one question about the piece that I played, and two related ones about "whether she is allowed to drink alcohol in her state", because if she is, "we can maybe go to a speakeasy bar in my town at some point, when she feels better", and whether she even knows what a speakeasy bar is (not a big tradition in our country).

 

I felt I was justified in sending a longer message than hers (or rather, two 3-minute messages in response to her one 3-minute message), because:

 

a) the first one only consisted of me saying how much I sympathized with her

b) 2/3 of the second one consisted of music

c) more than 30 hours had passed since her last message to me

d) the few questions in my last 3-minute message were very superficial and easy to answer

 

Now, the problem is, today is Thursday and I still have not heard back from her. I realize she might still be feeling terrible, injured, "not up for dating" because of all the work and stuff that she has to do while in this awful state, but I am very worried about whether she actually still cares about me at all and just generally, how she's doing. It has been 4 days since my last messge, 5 days since her last!

 

I have talked to all of my friends about this and they have two conflicting opinions:

 

Option 1: one friend says I should definitely not write back, cause she just needs space and I would be making pressure if I did.

 

Option 2: others say I should write back at some point, just asking a really short question or even just calling her at some point when I see her online.

 

A few other pointers to keep in mind:

 

a) she had vanished for up to 3 days before, and I broke that streak by writing another short message to her, like some of my friends say I should do now.

b) she is working a lot these days, even with her injury, and she has indeed been online much, much less than before.

c) she hasn't been on her online dating profile for at least 3 weeks now, so I doubt she's seeing someone new - especially in her state.

d) my friends who have listened to our voice mail exchange say I did absolutely nothing wrong in my last messages to her.

 

What do you think I should do? Should I write back again?

 

And if I do, what? I was thinking about something along these lines (that is, assuming I do end up writing her back!):

 

Hey, everything okay? I know you are busy and injured. I just want to hear that you are doing okay. You don't have to write me a long message. I will wait for you as long as you need until you feel better.

 

What do you think? Write? Don't write? This? Something else?

[goldway90]

I felt I was justified in sending a longer message than hers (or rather, two 3-minute messages in response to her one 3-minute message), because:

 

a) the first one only consisted of me saying how much I sympathized with her

b) 2/3 of the second one consisted of music

c) more than 30 hours had passed since her last message to me

d) the few questions in my last 3-minute message were very superficial and easy to answer

 

Stop doing this, trying to justify chasing her and messaging her.

 

No, let her come to you! what you're doing is so needy unattractive behavior to women. Get busy with your own life and stop chasing.

[ercolgemi]

Stop doing this, trying to justify chasing her and messaging her.

 

No, let her come to you! what you're doing is so needy unattractive behavior to women. Get busy with your own life and stop chasing.

 

Point taken about your opinion as to what my future course of action should be - but I'm sorry, I entirely disagree that "daring" to send her two messages when she just told me she has been through a traumatic experience and sending her some music to cheer her up qualifies as "chasing" and "unattractive behaviour".

[d0nnivain]

Stop writing. You can't build a relationship through text. Long texts are horrible. Stick to a few words. Hi. Have a nice day. Hope you're OK. If you can't say it in one sentence, it does not belong in text, ever.

 

 

Pick up the phone. You know she had a horrible week / time. Call the woman. Send her a get well card for the broken rib.

 

 

Stop being the same old guy who hides behind a device (your phone).

 

 

Expressing genuine human concern is not chasing. Chasing & begging is please oh please call me back. I miss you so much. or blowing up her phone with dozens of messages or 1 call is not needy. In this situation it may be kind given her injury.

 

 

Dating is not tit for tat or the idea that it's somebody's turn to reach out. Take the risk. Be the bigger person. Check on her welfare. If you reach out again -- this would be the 2nd time -- but don't hear from her, assume she is no longer interested. But here, now, I think you are OK to try one more time but NOT THROUGH TEXT.

Edited March 9, 2017 by d0nnivain

[goldway90]

Point taken about your opinion as to what my future course of action should be - but I'm sorry, I entirely disagree that "daring" to send her two messages when she just told me she has been through a traumatic experience and sending her some music to cheer her up qualifies as "chasing" and "unattractive behaviour".

 

I know you're trying to be nice which fine but you already sent her one there's no need to keep sending more. Chasing and over pursuing will kill the attraction and send you to the friendzone.

 

Now after no hearing from her you send her a second one and thinking of sending another one, this is needy. If she's lying down relaxing in her bed and gets your 3 messages her thoughts are going to be " wow this guy is kinda annoying".

[ercolgemi]

Now after no hearing from her you send her a second one and thinking of sending another one, this is needy. If she's lying down relaxing in her bed and gets your 3 messages her thoughts are going to be " wow this guy is kinda annoying".

I know what you are saying, but I think you might have overlooked part of my (admittedly long) OP.

 

I "warned" her in my first message back to her that I'd send her another one with music the next night. More than 24h had passed between those two and she knew the 2nd one was coming .

 

Also, it's been 4 days since then. Point taken about not sending her another message now, but I don't think any reasonable person would feel annoyed at what I did so far. I'm sorry, I just don't see it.

[ercolgemi]

Dating is not tit for tat or the idea that it's somebody's turn to reach out. Take the risk. Be the bigger person. Check on her welfare. If you reach out again -- this would be the 2nd time -- but don't hear from her, assume she is no longer interested. But here, now, I think you are OK to try one more time but NOT THROUGH TEXT.

Totally agree with basically every point you made, but keep in mind :

 

1) she's the one that texts longer than me

2) our last contact was through voice messages, not text

3) I can't send her a get well card since I don't know where she lives.

 

I am also considering calling her rather than writing her, I just don't know when to call since she works 7 days a week. But yes, this might be a better plan than texting (I haven't made up my mind yet).

[goldway90]

I know what you are saying, but I think you might have overlooked part of my (admittedly long) OP.

 

I "warned" her in my first message back to her that I'd send her another one with music the next night. More than 24h had passed between those two and she knew the 2nd one was coming .

 

Also, it's been 4 days since then. Point taken about not sending her another message now, but I don't think any reasonable person would feel annoyed at what I did so far. I'm sorry, I just don't see it.

 

Oh i read the whole thing and i think you might have overlooked the part where she didn't reply to your 2 messages.

 

I know i probably sound like a dick but the reason you don't see it is because she hasn't rejected you yet

[ercolgemi]

Oh i read the whole thing and i think you might have overlooked the part where she didn't reply to your 2 messages.

 

I know i probably sound like a dick but the reason you don't see it is because she hasn't rejected you yet

 

You actually do kinda sound like one. I don't quite understand where this is coming from, but whatever. To each his own.

[1fish2fish]

You sound like a lovely person and like someone I would love to date.

 

IMO, there was nothing annoying or overbearing in your communications.

 

I do agree with the others, and as hard as it is, try to relax and go on living. Let her respond next.

 

In the meantime, do your best to stay occupied and make more music. Just don't send any more snippets to her until she asks.

[smackie9]

I agree you have been nothing but patient all this time to someone who honestly is rude and doesn't give a crap about you.

 

You are wasting your time. She won't reject you, like so many will not do, but figure by ignoring you, you will get the hint to go away.

[basil67]

Yeah, I would have tended to agree, which is why I wanted to have this talk with her in the first place, to see what's going on or if she's interested in continuing this at all. However, after starting this thread, people have convinced me to wait and play it cool for a while longer. I don't know if I'm doing the right thing, but I guess I will try.

 

I wasn't suggesting you have a talk with her. I was suggesting that you simply end it. It's early days, she's not meeting your needs.....don't bother with her any further.

[OnlyHonesty]

No matter what way you say it, having the talk amounts to you trying to persuade someone to take you more seriously. That never works. You can't make someone do anything, and if they seemed to change after the talk, it's under some kind of duress, isn't natural and will not last.

 

You either get busy enjoying your life too much to notice she's gone awol, or you find someone more compatible.

 

Any talk will not end well. You've been warned!

[ercolgemi]

You sound like a lovely person and like someone I would love to date.

 

IMO, there was nothing annoying or overbearing in your communications.

 

I do agree with the others, and as hard as it is, try to relax and go on living. Let her respond next.

 

In the meantime, do your best to stay occupied and make more music. Just don't send any more snippets to her until she asks.

I agree you have been nothing but patient all this time to someone who honestly is rude and doesn't give a crap about you.

 

You are wasting your time. She won't reject you, like so many will not do, but figure by ignoring you, you will get the hint to go away.

 

Guys, you have no idea how much this is helping me. To use an old expression from my native language, "your words are medicine to my ears" (or eyes, in this case).

 

Every single one of my friends has been telling me the same thing, and, slowly but surely, I am finally starting to believe it - that I simply haven't done anything wrong. That I should forget about her and never reach out to her again. I just wanted to do the right thing, to do right by her. But I am finally starting to believe it - that I already have. And I mean to really believe it, deep deep down. Right now, I couldn't ask for anything more.

 

Thank you so, so much for your support! I really appreciate you taking the time to read through all of this and provide your input. I cannot express enough how thankful I am to you. It will take a while to heal from this, but I certainly will, no doubt about it. I've never had this sort of problem before, and I have you and my friends to thank for helping me through it.

________________

 

On a side note, there just was an attack at the train station of my home town two hours ago. She knows that I live across the street from the location of the attack, and she knows that I come back from work at exactly the time it happened (I actually passed by 5 minutes before it took place). If she has a smartphone (which she does), and given the current state of the nation's largest media outlets, she will find out about this by tomorrow noon, if she hasn't already. My phone blew up with 5 alerts already. I've had people I haven't talked to in years reach out to me in the past 20 minutes to ask if I'm okay. If she doesn't even ask whether I'm safe, I'd venture to say she's a pretty awful human being - in addition to having been so rude to me.

Edited March 9, 2017 by ercolgemi

[JS84]

Reading this thread it sounds like you got WAAAAYY too emotionally invested in someone you've only been dating for 4 weeks. You also don't sound like you're in the right head space for a serious relationship anyway. The girl obviously isn't that into you and probably never was. Not saying she didn't like you, but you had her on a pedestal far higher than she should have been while it sounds like you were a fun distraction for her which is perfectly normal. Especially after only seeing each other for a month.

 

The obsessing over texts, unreturned messages, facebook statuses, online activity, etc? Your neediness, insecurity, and desperation are not attractive qualities especially in a man. And women pick up on those things much better than we do even when we think we're hiding it.

 

Personally I don't stay involved with women I'm clearly more interested in than they are when it comes to me. You're just setting yourself up to make a fool of yourself and get hurt.

 

Ask yourself, if you stopped talking to this girl, stopped responding to her texts, ignored her on social media, etc do you think she'd be nearly as broken up about it as you would be if the reverse happened?? Based on your posts I seriously doubt it.

 

Cut your losses, learn from this, and move on.

[1fish2fish]

On a side note, there just was an attack at the train station of my home town two hours ago. She knows that I live across the street from the location of the attack, and she knows that I come back from work at exactly the time it happened (I actually passed by 5 minutes before it took place). If she has a smartphone (which she does), and given the current state of the nation's largest media outlets, she will find out about this by tomorrow noon, if she hasn't already. My phone blew up with 5 alerts already. I've had people I haven't talked to in years reach out to me in the past 20 minutes to ask if I'm okay. If she doesn't even ask whether I'm safe, I'd venture to say she's a pretty awful human being - in addition to having been so rude to me.

 

Did she check on your welfare?

 

If not, what plans have you made for yourself to have a fantastic weekend?

[StormyEyes]

It's been 6 weeks and already all of this turmoil? Let her go. Find someone who is more on the same page you are. There is no such thing as being too busy to send a quick hello etc to someone you are truly interested in. People who want you in their lives make room, period. I learned that lesson the hard way already.

[dumbass2]

On a side note, there just was an attack at the train station of my home town two hours ago. She knows that I live across the street from the location of the attack, and she knows that I come back from work at exactly the time it happened (I actually passed by 5 minutes before it took place). If she has a smartphone (which she does), and given the current state of the nation's largest media outlets, she will find out about this by tomorrow noon, if she hasn't already. My phone blew up with 5 alerts already. I've had people I haven't talked to in years reach out to me in the past 20 minutes to ask if I'm okay. If she doesn't even ask whether I'm safe, I'd venture to say she's a pretty awful human being - in addition to having been so rude to me.

 

She may be an awful human being, but more than likely just one that doesn't care about you. You are WAY more invested in her than she is of you. You don't even know where this person lives? You don't know this person very well at all.

 

Dating rule of thumb #1....NEVER SEND 3 consecutive texts or messages without receiving a response. I say 3, but truly it should probably be just 2, but sometimes things do come up or happen, but receiving a reply to a message without having to text or call again is the norm and having to send 2 the exception and 3 in a row never ever.

[ercolgemi]

Did she check on your welfare? If not, what plans have you made for yourself to have a fantastic weekend?

No, she did not, but I went to the cinema yesterday night and I'm going to the theater tonight!

 

She may be an awful human being, but more than likely just one that doesn't care about you. You are WAY more invested in her than she is of you. You don't even know where this person lives? You don't know this person very well at all.

I know what town and part of town she lives in, but not her exact address. It doesn't matter though! I'm done with her.

 

It's been 6 weeks and already all of this turmoil? Let her go. Find someone who is more on the same page you are. There is no such thing as being too busy to send a quick hello etc to someone you are truly interested in. People who want you in their lives make room, period. I learned that lesson the hard way already.

That is absolutely correct. I have let her go already.

 

It will take a while to get over her completely, but I'm feeling much better after having taken this decision.