Miss Spider Posted February 23, 2017 Posted February 23, 2017 Why, when we live a very largely unnatural existence, do people use 'natural' as some kind of aspiration? Small pox is natural. Death in childbirth is natural. Fleas and lice are natural. We don't long for those things. We choose the things that benefit us and/or our society regardless of how unnatural they are. in this case she's just trying to feel better about what is happening in her life. But forget 'natural' - it's irrelevant. Yeah, I couldn't tell if scarjo was using this as some moral argument for non monogamy or not. It fails there. Appeal to nature.
Sweetfish Posted February 23, 2017 Posted February 23, 2017 She made a general statement that monogamy was not natural. She didn't say she is not made for monogamy. Also she is just coming out of a relationship, people say all types of stuff when they just broke up like: never again, or women are just XYZ, or I am made to be alone, and we know all this is just pain talking and next thing you know they're in love again. Right after Ryan Reynolds she jumped to a new guy "Romain Dauriac" Rebound. Ever since than Ryan Reynold career is getting better and Romain well.. who is that guy lol Dumpers regret?
Els Posted February 23, 2017 Posted February 23, 2017 Hygiene and cheating... when people are grasping at straws to win a debate they invariably try to compare two completely unrelated things to try to distract from the point. Common tactic. Oh, the two are very related - you must be rather obtuse to not be able to see the connection. How much hygiene do you think our "natural" ancestors in 10,000 BC maintained? And we're not even talking about going down the evolutionary tree yet. 1
CaliforniaGirl Posted February 23, 2017 Posted February 23, 2017 I laugh when people compare what is best for humans with what is "natural" and with what animals did or what we did when we were primates. Humans have evolved - upwards - and are consistently moving further away from the primal animalistic instincts from which we came. As animals sure - we probably did naturally want to F*#k anything that moved and so residually some of those instincts remain. But as animals we also slept in the dirt, fought to the death over resources and sexual mates, ate what ever we could scavenge and probably even played with our own feces when we were bored. I think we would all agree that its for the best these "natural" instincts have been steadily curbed and replaced with more refined, organized and cultured attitudes towards habbitation, sex, food and even our poop I'm not saying 1 partner for life always makes sense - but embracing natural instincts definitely isn't the answer. We were given higher intellect and reasoning capacities. Its our responsibility to use these gifts. Oh, good! Does this mean we no longer have to hear "Men are visual and they biologically desire fertility in order to further their own genetics, so it's 'impossible' for them to he attracted to women who aren't beautiful and young" anymore? I'm relieved. Been hearing that old saw about a hundred times a day for the last 49 years. This "we've evolved past our animal instincts" thing is a real game changer. (P.s. We ARE primates...)
CaliforniaGirl Posted February 23, 2017 Posted February 23, 2017 Oh, the two are very related - you must be rather obtuse to not be able to see the connection. How much hygiene do you think our "natural" ancestors in 10,000 BC maintained? And we're not even talking about going down the evolutionary tree yet. To the best of their ability, like many other animals, they were quite hygienic; by the time tools came along we are able to find personal grooming implements in archaeology, we see evidence of ritualistic cleansing, and as far as our ape brethren, they not only personally groom but, to cement ties, they groom one another. Pre-modern humans didn't have Axe and Pantene but they almost certainly cleansed themselves within their own limitations. ** Now. Regarding the idea of "We are not what we were in the past..." Correct. But TODAY, a majority of people from pretty much all cultures struggle (overall) with monogamy, to the point of rules and penalties being universally required among any given group. Nobody need dig back to the last major ice age to support the idea of how well/poorly humans struggle with permanent (lifetime) monogamy *now*. The "because it's acceptable/because we can" argument is lacking, as well. For one thing, even in situations where there will be incredibly harsh penalties for cheating, people still find a way. That doesn't qualify for airy, easy, fun "because I can" status to me. For another thing, WHY do we want to? I "can" sit here and stick needles in my eyes right now but " I do not have a burning desire to*. We don't do ALL things we "can" do, by any means.
CaliforniaGirl Posted February 23, 2017 Posted February 23, 2017 Why, when we live a very largely unnatural existence, do people use 'natural' as some kind of aspiration? Small pox is natural. Death in childbirth is natural. Fleas and lice are natural. We don't long for those things. We choose the things that benefit us and/or our society regardless of how unnatural they are. in this case she's just trying to feel better about what is happening in her life. But forget 'natural' - it's irrelevant. ^ Actually, it's the entire topic of this thread. So in this case it IS the argument.
minimariah Posted February 23, 2017 Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) Which wouldn't bother you, by the way, if you weren't already worried the comment has merit. ^ ad hominem. Scarlett's comment doesn't bother me at all... mostly because it's obvious she doesn't really know how to use correct terms & isn't really knowledgeable on the subject. also, someone already noticed - natural isn't the same as GOOD. again... there is a reason we chose to raise our families in most developed societies through monogamy. evolution. on cheating: if one's in a sexless marriage with no emotional connection but cheats and develops strong sexual & emotional connection with someone else... they're monogamous with their affair partner = that's what i meant. again - monogamous means (most of the time) being sexually and emotionally exclusive with ONE partner at the time. you going through 100000 relationships and women in life doesn't mean that you're not monogamous - that just makes you promiscuous... which is often confused with polygamy & polyamory. easier to blame it on our genes and impulses than to admit that some of us are a bit promiscuous - we're far too vain to accept the responsibility for our own actions. Edited February 25, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator language~T
minimariah Posted February 23, 2017 Posted February 23, 2017 He's capable of monogamy by force of will... monogamy isn't a matter of our NATURE, it is a matter of our choice which automatically makes Scarlett's comment invalid. also... most folks practice monogamy because they WANT to - not because they're forced to do so, contrary to the popular opinion. Another member made mention of serial monogamy, the act of moving from one monogamous relationship to another. That's a choice. If one tires of one relationship and sets up another before ending the first, how does that relate to monogamy being an unnatural act? ^ i believe most confuse serial monogamy with polygamy and polyamory - the OP included - and take that as some kind of proof that monogamy ISN'T natural to us. i was pointing that out. Made a choice to be monogamous but those pesky thoughts, even sexual thoughts, intrude, whether or not one takes action on them. me having lusty thoughts about my handsome neighbor doesn't mean that i'm naturally seeking more partners... it means that i'm an aesthetician & i appreciate beauty. it also means that my imagination is alive and well. being attracted to more folks than just one at the same time is - in no way - proof of monogamy being UNnatural. if monogamy isn't natural to us - that means that polygamy is. BUT! most of us have very much monogamous relationships - NOT to be confused with open relationships - simply because we don't have emotional capacity, time or money for more than just one person.
Jersey born raised Posted February 23, 2017 Posted February 23, 2017 Jealousy, anger, belittling, etc are also natural. Love in a marriage is both a feeling and a choice. Knowing a choice will hurt a spouse or most likeky be hurt by adultery and still choosing to do so is a choice. Infidelity in a relationship where there is an understanding that fidelity exists is the same as adultery but is not adultery. I use the term adultery only when it occurs within a monograms marriage as it a very cold judgmental word. I use the term affair otherwise.
Timshel Posted February 23, 2017 Posted February 23, 2017 we're far too vain to accept the responsibility for our own actions. Indeed. Historically, every 'civilized' society has believed that they were far along the evolutionary trail; where we are has always been quite progressive/modern, intellectually profound and enlightened. A level of humility is always best. Who knows where, if we continue to accumulate knowledge, humanity will end up regarding monogamy. Monogamy has come very naturally to me, I have never had any desire to be sexually active with more than one man at a time. However, my own experience does not negate others who do not feel the same. I disagree with Scarlett on a personal level and it's no skin off my nose for her to make this announcement as a universal truth instead of her personal own. It would be hard for me to believe that evolution will lead us to an 'all the same' scenario regarding sexuality....rather a higher tolerance for differences. 2
Weezy1973 Posted February 23, 2017 Posted February 23, 2017 I think the issue for a lot of people is they're thinking black and white. Either we're naturally monogamous or we're not. The truth is we're naturally adaptable and that has led to our success as a species (and when I say success, I mean our ability to thrive in multiple environments). Think of diet - we are "naturally" omnivores, but the human diet ranges from almost completely herbivore to almost completely carnivore depending on the environment. Monogamous in the biological sense means you have sex with only one person for your whole life. Very few of us can honestly say that we've only had sex with one person in our life, although we tend to only be in one sexual relationship at a time. Somewhat monogamous.
minimariah Posted February 23, 2017 Posted February 23, 2017 Monogamous in the biological sense means you have sex with only one person for your whole life. ^ true - when discussing animals. when discussing humans, it is defined as the condition or practice of having a single mate during a period of time. I disagree with Scarlett on a personal level and it's no skin off my nose for her to make this announcement as a universal truth instead of her personal own. and that's where Scarlett made a mistake: she forgot to add for me at the end of her statement. monogamy being unnatural isn't something that's COMMON for humans... she made it seem like it's a common trait - as many do. 1
William Posted February 23, 2017 Posted February 23, 2017 Topic bump due to one member's posts being held in the queue through no fault of their own, rather software interaction with their ISP. Please read back a few hours for complete context. Thanks and our apologies to the member for not getting those approved more quickly.
Timshel Posted February 23, 2017 Posted February 23, 2017 ^ true - when discussing animals. when discussing humans, it is defined as the condition or practice of having a single mate during a period of time. and that's where Scarlett made a mistake: she forgot to add for me at the end of her statement. monogamy being unnatural isn't something that's COMMON for humans... she made it seem like it's a common trait - as many do. She's a woman with a microphone in her face...I thank the good Lord every day I can weather my experiences in peace and privacy.
joeandmee Posted February 26, 2017 Posted February 26, 2017 I dunno...I used to think along those lines but now that i'm engaged to the most wonderful man I've ever met, he's all I want forever. He's ruined all other men for me. haha.
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