Do you agree with Scarlett Johansson?

[Mr. Lucky]

Also she is just coming out of a relationship, people say all types of stuff when they just broke up like: never again, or women are just XYZ, or I am made to be alone, and we know all this is just pain talking and next thing you know they're in love again.

 

Yep. Can't wait til she gets with the next guy and declares him to be "the one"...

 

Mr. Lucky

[CaliforniaGirl]

Argh, the delay in my posts going up paired with only being able to edit if I manage to catch it JUST when it comes up is driving me buggy.

 

BTW, I forgot to define "serial monogamy"...most people here probably know what it means, but just in case, to paraphrase, serial monogamy indicates wanting to be exclusive with one partner *for a period of time*, then if/when that association dissolves (whether through death, divorce, a breakup or whatever), wanting to go on to be exclusive with *another* partner. Serial monogamy is not the same as lifetime monogamy or lifetime pair bonding though the lines can be blurred if, say, you *intended* to only be with one person for the rest of your life but that person died. In that sad circumstance, actually, it wasn't tested over your own lifetime but I won't pick that apart because again...it's just very sad.

 

To move on...

 

If monogamy is unnatural, then why do we have jealousy?

 

Further to this, if monogamy is natural, why do we require both massive cultural pressure and legal measures in order to keep it going, with threats of retaliation should we go outside of it? (i.e. expensive divorce; losing our children; losing our reputation; family members turning against us; etc.)

 

If monogamy is natural why do religions have to threaten us into doing it? Do religions have to threaten us (with God's displeasure, and/or hell, or with slipping spiritually from our quest for nirvana and a way out of the pain of rebirth...or whatever the case may be depending upon the religion) into maintaining other natural processes? For example, do we need to be threatened with hell or slipping in our karmic quest if we refuse to breathe, defecate, hug our children or laugh when something is funny?

 

If monogamy is natural (again, for a majority...there can't be any one rule for every last person on this, so I'm just saying overall), why does such a high percentage of societies which do not literally threaten jail time or extreme measures, such as physical measures or even ejection from the community, loss of reputation, possibly loss of job, loss of love of family members, one's home and money, have such a high rate of "cheating" outside legal boundaries (i.e. marriage), and that's just among people who actually admit to it?

 

If monogamy were natural it would be VERY odd that we'd EVER think about having sex with another person outside of our committed relationship/marriage. There would be NO NEED for that biological urge to continue once the commitment stage had been achieved, and it would not need to be recalled/reactivated unless, say, the intended lifetime partner died. If it were a ghost of a past habit, it would be just that, a ghost, not something that would drive giant numbers of "committed" people to look outside their marriages for sex, emotions, or both.

 

So I'm not saying Scarlett is "right", per se, and she did forget to be excruciatingly P.C. and say "for most people" or make some other careful disclaimer, but I do think she has a point, even if she is saying it from her jaded position as a divorce as some have claimed. It's possible that has influenced her saying that, sure, I agree. But that doesn't mean what she said doesn't have merit. IMO it does.

[carhill]

If monogamy is unnatural, then why do we have jealousy?

 

Humans are selfish, egocentric and covetous; adding to that we're programmed to the one so all the marbles go into the one basket and then we guard that basket with extreme prejudice and furious anger against anything or anyone which/who tries to take it from us.

 

If we were naturally monogamous, there would be no polygamy during peer integration; we'd find one clicker when hormones cause our genitals to develop and over and done for life. Instead, we perform, a lot of us anyway, every non-monogamous action in the book while we rebel against our programming until we figure out the path we want for our lives, including the balance of independence from and supplication to the group, society and culture.

 

Whatever path you choose, please understand and accept that the path is the reward. There's nothing waiting for you after a lifetime of what we believe is perfection except death. Live it your way, try not to hurt others purposely and accept that the group may not like you and that's OK. They all die too.

[central]

Monkeys, wolves, beavers, angelfish, eagles, owls, octopus, swans, vultures, penguins, foxes, are just a few animals that are monogamous so when she says it's un-natural she just says that because it serves her to think so.

 

Only 3 percent to 5 percent of the roughly 5,000 species of mammals are known to form lifelong, monogamous bonds. So it would seem that non-monogamy is far more prevalent and "natural."

[CaliforniaGirl]

Only 3 percent to 5 percent of the roughly 5,000 species of mammals are known to form lifelong, monogamous bonds. So it would seem that non-monogamy is far more prevalent and "natural."

 

In addition, "natural" to one species does not equate to natural for another.

 

For example, my dog used to love to eat his own poop. The vet told me it's an instinct.

 

I can promise you that that's one instinct I, as a human, have NEVER had.

 

Some animals naturally attempt to kill any other animal that approaches their territory. That's not my natural leaning either. I'm sure the Jehovah's Witnesses that canvas my block are glad of that.

[Miss Spider]

I have a problem with the use of the word "unnatural" in reference to human behavior

[CaliforniaGirl]

I have a problem with the use of the word "unnatural" in reference to human behavior

 

You could substitute "typical" or "biologically motivated."

 

So...it would not seem that human beings are biologically motivated toward permanent, lifelong monogamy/an exclusion of all but one sexual/emotional partner as a majority, numbers-wise.

[Springsummer]

To answer this question, I think I need to ask myself if I can love and/or sleep with more than one person at the same time. The answer probably is yes. but I don't have enough life experience to be sure about this.

 

Put it in another way, if I have all the resources and all the handsome opposite sex available to me, and I can have all of them without consequences, will I naturally choose to be with one person and love one person only? The answer probably is no.

 

So, monogamy is a social construct, not a natural one. what is natural will not necessary do us good though.

 

but...wait a minute, most of us without all the resources need monogamy to protect us. Especially women, we need to be in a monogamy relationship to bear and raise children. It's necessary for our survival.

 

so, monogamy is also natural? so what exactly is natural?

 

so, monogamy is both natural and unnatural?

 

sigh...this is a deep question. no yes or no answer, I suppose?

[Els]

Technically it IS "unnatural". Then again, so is brushing your teeth, shaving, washing yourself with soap, wearing clothes, and not pooping in public.

 

I don't know about the rest of you, but I fully plan on staying 'unnatural'.

[Fair]

I agree. There is so much cheating because monogamy goes against human nature it's that simple. If more people admitted this out loud instead of trying to force themselves to remain in a dead relationship/marriage and be happy about it there'd be a lot less misery in the world.

[Fair]

To answer this question, I think I need to ask myself if I can love and/or sleep with more than one person at the same time. The answer probably is yes. but I don't have enough life experience to be sure about this.

 

Put it in another way, if I have all the resources and all the handsome opposite sex available to me, and I can have all of them without consequences, will I naturally choose to be with one person and love one person only? The answer probably is no.

 

So, monogamy is a social construct, not a natural one. what is natural will not necessary do us good though.

 

but...wait a minute, most of us without all the resources need monogamy to protect us. Especially women, we need to be in a monogamy relationship to bear and raise children. It's necessary for our survival.

 

so, monogamy is also natural? so what exactly is natural?

 

so, monogamy is both natural and unnatural?

sigh...this is a deep question. no yes or no answer, I suppose?

 

It serves a purpose and is a natural desire for most of us, I suppose. But most marriages don't last. So again we come back to the simple fact monogamy is not a natural state. And keep in mind a lot of marriages that DO last are unhappy. If you could add all those into the already poor stats it would be pretty shocking. Just because society forces some of us to marry for survival and because a good marriage is a lovely fantasy doesn't mean it's natural. A lot of people end up single parents anyway. And do they really need to stay married in order to raise those kids? Of course not...So there's a huge disconnect between what we've been taught to believe is the way things have to be and what the truth really is...

Edited February 19, 2017 by Fair

[Springsummer]

Technically it IS "unnatural". Then again, so is brushing your teeth, shaving, washing yourself with soap, wearing clothes, and not pooping in public.

 

I don't know about the rest of you, but I fully plan on staying 'unnatural'.

 

very well put.

 

What's natural is not necessary for the common good.

[Springsummer]

Alot of people end up single parents anyway. And do they really need to stay married in order to raise those kids? Of course not...So there's a huge disconnect between what we've been taught to believe is the way things have to be and what the truth really is...

 

um....I have no answer for that for now.

[Fair]

Technically it IS "unnatural". Then again, so is brushing your teeth, shaving, washing yourself with soap, wearing clothes, and not pooping in public.

 

I don't know about the rest of you, but I fully plan on staying 'unnatural'.

 

The point is not what we choose but what nature ultimately does or doesn't allow. Sure, most people in monogamous relationships probably plan to stay that way, but don't. Nature wins.

[Miss Spider]

You could substitute "typical" or "biologically motivated."

 

So it would not seem that human beings are biologically motivated toward permanent, lifelong monogamy/an exclusion of all but one sexual/emotional partner as a majority, numbers-wise.

 

Hmm. "Typical" and "biologically motivated" are very different, to my understanding. The claim that anything uncommon is necessarily not biological or "biologically motivated" seems fallacious to me.

 

Many people use antibiotics. Antibiotics are usually defined as 'unnatural', although they were created by natural human beings, by things found in nature, to cater to the biological motivations of humans. The motivators would be aversion to pain and/or survival. Likewise, monogamy can be a very useful strategy in securing the survival of our genetic material/offspring.

 

Artificial/unnatural vs natural is a social construct, albeit useful in some cases( not this one, in my opinion)and completely natural.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[dichotomy]

So she thinks monogamy is unnatural. It's all over the news today. Do you agree or disagree?

 

I grew up believing one and only, and marriage is forever. but nowadays I don't know anything anymore.

 

 

I think she MAY be as big a close minded bigot as people who say being gay is not natural.

 

Also remember when gays would not accept bisexuals ? They were "fence sitters" and really just gay?

 

I think certain people are simply "that way" with their own sexuality. Also at points in their life - sexuality or sexual life style can be fluid. Cant we all respect each others sexual needs and expressions?

 

In fairness I do think there is a point to be made that some (or perhaps many) may have been socially pressured into accepting monogamy (and at one point marriage) as the proper state of existence - and not allowed to follow their own needs and feelings. Even the bible said "marriage is not for everyone". But to say monogamy is not natural is to express hate against those of us who thrive on it.

 

I believe I married a poly who does not accept her nature - so I know monogamy is not for everyone.

Edited February 20, 2017 by dichotomy

[Fair]

I think she MAY be as big a close minded bigot as people who say being gay is not natural.

 

". But to say monogamy is not natural is to express hate against those of us who thrive on it.

 

.

 

Oh bull****. Someone asked our opinions and we gave them based on what we see as an obvious fact. That's not hate. Don't worry, monogamy is still exalted by society above everything else.

 

And no one was discussing gays. The only problem I have with gays is that they keep throwing their sexuality in everyone's faces. Find the appropriate thread for that.

[minimariah]

So again we come back to the simple fact monogamy is not a natural state.

 

you're wrong.

 

i REALLY have a problem with folks using the word monogamy - being monogamous (sexually + emotionally) means being with one person AT THE TIME. getting divorced & remarried, having multiple partners THROUGH life does not mean that we're not monogamous... that just means that most of our personal relationships have an expiration date. we are, in fact, monogamous - if we weren't, you'd be having a lot of POLYrelationships around you... and that would only work out for some. most of us can only invest in one person at the time, that's just our capacity... so NATURALLY, if you want to use that word, we are very much monogamous.

 

also, about cheating - that doesn't mean that one's NOT monogamous. in fact, even during cheating... affair partners are usually in a mono relationship with each other (sexually, emotionally or both). having multiple sex partners and living that way is also different from being polygamous - so there's a lot of mixing up of those words going on here.

 

the entire "we're not monogamous" bull came up with the intention to rationalize cheating, desire for swinging, multiple partners at once and so on. people usually cannot accept their own desires, sexual fantasies & cheating so they blame it on the Mother Nature - we chose MONOGAMOUS families for a reason... it is the best way to raise our children. monogamy was our response to the evolution.

[dichotomy]

Oh bull****. Someone asked our opinions and we gave them based on what we see as an obvious fact. That's not hate. Don't worry, monogamy is still exalted by society above everything else.

 

And no one was discussing gays. The only problem I have with gays is that they keep throwing their sexuality in everyone's faces. Find the appropriate thread for that.

 

What the obvious fact ?

[Els]

The point is not what we choose but what nature ultimately does or doesn't allow. Sure, most people in monogamous relationships probably plan to stay that way, but don't. Nature wins.

 

Speak for yourself. Some people are in fact capable of monogamy. Why, there are even a few of them here...

 

I am sure that there also exist people who appear to be 'naturally incapable' of showering on a daily basis or otherwise behaving like a civilized human being.

[Justanaverageguy]

I laugh when people compare what is best for humans with what is "natural" and with what animals did or what we did when we were primates.

 

Humans have evolved - upwards - and are consistently moving further away from the primal animalistic instincts from which we came. As animals sure - we probably did naturally want to F*#k anything that moved and so residually some of those instincts remain. But as animals we also slept in the dirt, fought to the death over resources and sexual mates, ate what ever we could scavenge and probably even played with our own feces when we were bored. I think we would all agree that its for the best these "natural" instincts have been steadily curbed and replaced with more refined, organized and cultured attitudes towards habbitation, sex, food and even our poop

 

I'm not saying 1 partner for life always makes sense - but embracing natural instincts definitely isn't the answer. We were given higher intellect and reasoning capacities. Its our responsibility to use these gifts.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Justanaverageguy

[waterwoman]

Why, when we live a very largely unnatural existence, do people use 'natural' as some kind of aspiration? Small pox is natural. Death in childbirth is natural. Fleas and lice are natural. We don't long for those things. We choose the things that benefit us and/or our society regardless of how unnatural they are. in this case she's just trying to feel better about what is happening in her life. But forget 'natural' - it's irrelevant.

[Fair]

Speak for yourself. Some people are in fact capable of monogamy. Why, there are even a few of them here...

 

I am sure that there also exist people who appear to be 'naturally incapable' of showering on a daily basis or otherwise behaving like a civilized human being.

 

Hygiene and cheating... when people are grasping at straws to win a debate they invariably try to compare two completely unrelated things to try to distract from the point. Common tactic.

[Fair]

you're wrong.

 

i REALLY have a problem with folks using the word monogamy - being monogamous (sexually + emotionally) means being with one person AT THE TIME. getting divorced & remarried, having multiple partners THROUGH life does not mean that we're not monogamous... that just means that most of our personal relationships have an expiration date. we are, in fact, monogamous - if we weren't, you'd be having a lot of POLYrelationships around you... and that would only work out for some. most of us can only invest in one person at the time, that's just our capacity... so NATURALLY, if you want to use that word, we are very much monogamous.

 

also, about cheating - that doesn't mean that one's NOT monogamous. in fact, even during cheating... affair partners are usually in a mono relationship with each other (sexually, emotionally or both). having multiple sex partners and living that way is also different from being polygamous - so there's a lot of mixing up of those words going on here.

 

the entire "we're not monogamous" bull came up with the intention to rationalize cheating, desire for swinging, multiple partners at once and so on. people usually cannot accept their own desires, sexual fantasies & cheating so they blame it on the Mother Nature - we chose MONOGAMOUS families for a reason... it is the best way to raise our children. monogamy was our response to the evolution.

 

Some good points here except for the 'still monogamous while cheating' one.

 

Touchy subject... I can see alot of people taking this personally as though they're being told their spouses are going to leave them. That's not it. It's an impersonal discussion about Scarlett Johansson's comment. Which wouldn't bother you, by the way, if you weren't already worried the comment has merit.

[carhill]

It's an unnatural act to jump out of a perfectly operating aircraft but I'm capable of it.

 

When a guy is married and ogles other women as sexual objects is he exploring his boundaries of unnatural, or natural, behavior? Good question to ask husbands out there. Common answer - "I'm married, not dead". He's capable of monogamy by force of will, though his eyes, and thoughts, and lust, do wander, respecting his lizard brain desires to simultaneously covet and copulate with multiple females.

 

Another member made mention of serial monogamy, the act of moving from one monogamous relationship to another. That's a choice. If one tires of one relationship and sets up another before ending the first, how does that relate to monogamy being an unnatural act? I mention it because of it being very common, in people ranging from adolescents where it is extremely common (do adolescents having sex with one partner one month and another the next month have monogamous relationships?) to old people. You're on the outs with your steady and another cool person catches your eye and you have thoughts. Natural or unnatural? Made a choice to be monogamous but those pesky thoughts, even sexual thoughts, intrude, whether or not one takes action on them. Natural or unnatural?

 

Johansson evidently asserted that monogamy was unnatural, not that people aren't capable of monogamy, might even love it, and definitely can choose it. The cool thing is none of us can read minds so we don't know if people are being honest or not and we all have experienced the length and breadth of the human propensity to lie. Starting when we were kids and doing it ourselves. Natural or unnatural?