Am I with the wrong person?..."political"

[Woggle]

You have your views and he has his and I doubt anybody is going to change the other's mind because both of you sincerely believe they are right. If you can't agree to disagree then this relationship won't work.

[MJJean]

30+ years canceling out each others votes and counting!

 

It does get heated from time to time, but enough said... ..lol..

 

 

Haha. Thanks Good to hear you are going strong after 30 years!

 

My MIL is a Secular Humanist and is quite liberal.

 

My FIL is a weekly Mass attending Catholic who is conservative.

 

They have been happily married nearly 60 years.

[salparadise]

It really depends on what his views are. As a super liberal person myself, I am not going to "get over" the normalization of hatred towards ethnic minorities, the dismissal of women's health and reproductive rights, the subjugation of the Constitution to special interest groups with deep pockets, the mind-blowing conflicts of interest, or the monstrous people that have been nominated to Cabinet posts. I'm not sitting around and whining either; I've been actively protesting and identifying campaigns for action. You have options.

 

The problem with libertarians is they are almost uniformly upper middle class white guys with no awareness of opinions outside their own, and they believe anything bad that happens to someone is their own fault. They also tend to be very egotistical, with a lot of admiration for their own success. The noxious "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" principle is a farce and doesn't take into account any kind of systemic prejudice. I have known a lot of black and Hispanic people from poor backgrounds and they find the very idea of libertarians mystifying.

 

(And never mind Ayn Rand, who wailed constantly about not being as strong as her fictional characters. She was a hypocrite and a failure to say the least.)

 

I dated a self-described libertarian for a while. He seemed okay, but then he started saying things like "well, maybe some groups are genetically on average more athletic or less intelligent---that's just science" and I had to call it quits. The superiority element of libertarianism can frequently lead to that kind of racial garbage and it's intolerable.

 

Can you have a future with this person? I don't know. Politically divided couples are nothing new, but divisions aren't as mild as they used to be. I think you need to share some fundamental values if you're going to make it work. You also need to share or at least respect each other's passions, and that includes supporting causes the other partner cares about. Politics or no, anyone who's dismissive about something you love may not be a good fit in the long run. Think long and hard about this and brace yourself for some tough conversations.

 

 

I am a liberal and I can't see even trying to get cozy with a Trumpeteer. The whole mess is repulsive, and if I were trying to date someone like that the disdain would be perpetually palatable. Also, I would not be okay with avoiding a wide range of highly relevant topics to keep peace. It would be an uncomfortable peace at best. I can agree to disagree on a lot of things, but ignorance-bigotry-misogony-hatred ain't among them.

 

On the subjects of genetics... this is a factual thing, not a moral-ethical issue. There are genetic differences in various ethnic groups. It's pretty naive to think that if various groups have different skin and color, and are more or less prone to certain diseases, that genetics are perfectly equal in other aspects of biology. We have learned how to breed dogs and animals to have a whole range of specific traits, temperaments, and types of intelligences. Why do people insist on denying that certain kinds of differences don't exist in humans? We know that Ashkenazi Jews are fifteen percent more intelligent on average than the overall population, so faced with such facts, how can anyone deny that there is some genetic variation in humans that goes beyond skin color? Of course that doesn't give them additional rights or status or make them better, it just is what it is. Liberals are all over Trumpeteers for denying science in the realm of environmental stuff, but the backlash against Herrnstein and Murray, authors of The Bell Curve has been relentless based on not being PC.

Edited February 4, 2017 by salparadise

[ConfusedAF]

ConfusedAF,

I didn't see any point at which you were negatively judging or condemning anyone for their beliefs, thoughts or feelings.

 

You have the absolute right to determine what type of person you want to be with, and to base that on whatever criteria you choose.

Everybody is doing this type of discernment all the time -- I don't hang out with drug-dealers or pedophiles because of their values, ideology and/or behaviour.

I don't hang out with neo-Nazis for the same reason. There's nothing that I need to reflect on, about this.

 

If people don't use people's personal values and inner qualities to choose their partners and friends, how do they do it? Looks and money???

 

Hugs, ConfusedAF.

 

Thank you, Ronni :)I agreed to disagree with some of the commenters above on certain things but also try to be open minded that when I get upset about this, I do come on strong. Like I said before, partly because these issues are so important to me. So that is the part that maybe I could tone down in a conversation with my S.O. But other than that, I agree that a big part of who we choose to be with has to do with similar values. So I disagree when people mentioned that that makes me hypocritical. There is nothting wrong with having certain standards for the person you are with. Anyway... my fiance did not vote for Trump and was never at all sympathetic to him during his campaign. I would not have been able to tolerate that. I do however, find his lack of caring about what is going on right now hard to understand.. But I also don't want to throw away years of a relationship lightly.... whatever happens, there's no doubt that this whole thing has been difficulty and disappointing

[WaitingForBardot]

Thank you, Ronni :)I agreed to disagree with some of the commenters above on certain things but also try to be open minded that when I get upset about this, I do come on strong. Like I said before, partly because these issues are so important to me. So that is the part that maybe I could tone down in a conversation with my S.O. But other than that, I agree that a big part of who we choose to be with has to do with similar values. So I disagree when people mentioned that that makes me hypocritical. There is nothting wrong with having certain standards for the person you are with. Anyway... my fiance did not vote for Trump and was never at all sympathetic to him during his campaign. I would not have been able to tolerate that. I do however, find his lack of caring about what is going on right now hard to understand.. But I also don't want to throw away years of a relationship lightly.... whatever happens, there's no doubt that this whole thing has been difficulty and disappointing

Does he actually not care or are you assuming he doesn't? (I have no way to judge that)

 

The media has pretty much convinced many people that the only reason someone would have voted for Trump is because they are racist, misogynist, immigrant-hating, uneducated, bottom feeders, from the basket of deplorables (as Hilary called them). Do you really believe that essentially half of all Americans fall into those categories? Some do, no doubt, but half? I just can't believe that myself.

[ConfusedAF]

Does he actually not care or are you assuming he doesn't? (I have no way to judge that)

So when I point out or ask him to help me understand his lack of caring for what's going on, he says that he can't explain it. He's always hated politics, so I don't know if that has something to do with it. When I point out the lack of respect for women, immigrants, etc. that the now president has and I ask him if he thinks that this is okay, he says that he does not think that this is okay. The part that is difficult for me to understand is that he says he doesn't think is okay while at the same time not really caring much, so which one is it? He seems to contradict himself (in my perception at least).

The media has pretty much convinced many people that the only reason someone would have voted for Trump is because they are racist, misogynist, immigrant-hating, uneducated, bottom feeders, from the basket of deplorables (as Hilary called them). Do you really believe that essentially half of all Americans fall into those categories? Some do, no doubt, but half? I just can't believe that myself.

Man, I also did not want to believe that but at this point do kind of believe it. At the very least, Trump voters made a statement that sexism, xenophobia, etc. Are not deal breakers for them. I think some percentage voted out of (economic) desperation and because they liked that he is not a politician and believed that he would help them. But once again, voted for him even after his total lack of respect for all the groups mentioned. The only thing that make me feel a little better it's that it's really 25% given the half of the population that did not vote. If anything, I do think that Trump brought out the worst in a lot of people.

[mightycpa]

Thank you, Ronni :)I agreed to disagree with some of the commenters above on certain things but also try to be open minded that when I get upset about this, I do come on strong. Like I said before, partly because these issues are so important to me. So that is the part that maybe I could tone down in a conversation with my S.O. But other than that, I agree that a big part of who we choose to be with has to do with similar values. So I disagree when people mentioned that that makes me hypocritical. There is nothting wrong with having certain standards for the person you are with. Anyway... my fiance did not vote for Trump and was never at all sympathetic to him during his campaign. I would not have been able to tolerate that. I do however, find his lack of caring about what is going on right now hard to understand.. But I also don't want to throw away years of a relationship lightly.... whatever happens, there's no doubt that this whole thing has been difficulty and disappointing

I've read this over and over and I didn't see anywhere that anybody said you were a hypocrite (someone who pretends to have beliefs that they really don't). What I have read over and over is that people think you can't mix oil and water. It has nothing to do with your color or your gender or any of that stuff. It's your attitudes.

 

When I read what you write, it all boils down to one thing. You really dislike the fact that you can't convince him you're right. You would feel SO GOOD if he'd just say, "you're right, how could I have been so blind?" and mean it.

 

He, conversely, could care less if you're right or not. It is enough for him that he feels HE is right. His happiness does not hinge on convincing you over to his side. Your happiness seems to need exactly that. I imagine that the dynamic is that you keep bringing it up, and he's sick of hearing about it.

 

That's not about hypocrisy. That's something else - need, control, insecurity, I don't know. Call it whatever you want. The name isn't important, but the part where you want something from him he's not going to give you will never go away, and I can't think of a better recipe for misery for the both of you. Eventually, you'll both resent each other.

 

I'd have a different opinion if you allowed him to have his own point of view without questioning what kind of person he is, but you don't. It's pretty simple to me.

 

Isn't that what you came here to ask?

Edited February 4, 2017 by mightycpa

[WaitingForBardot]

Man, I also did not want to believe that but at this point do kind of believe it. At the very least, Trump voters made a statement that sexism, xenophobia, etc. Are not deal breakers for them. I think some percentage voted out of (economic) desperation and because they liked that he is not a politician and believed that he would help them. But once again, voted for him even after his total lack of respect for all the groups mentioned. The only thing that make me feel a little better it's that it's really 25% given the half of the population that did not vote. If anything, I do think that Trump brought out the worst in a lot of people.

So by extension do you believe that physical attacks on Trump supporters, the attacks on the first amendment at various college campuses, riots and ensuing property damage, are representative of the feelings of the majority of liberal voters? Again, I don't.

 

Politics does in fact bring out the worst in people, on both sides of the political spectrum. The trick is to not jump to the conclusion that this somehow represents the beliefs of all people on either side. We really only have two choices in this country (two parties) and if all your beliefs align entirely with one party, consider yourself lucky. This is not the case for most of us.

 

Anyways, I apoligize if I'm bugging you, not really my intent. This is just exactly the sort of arguments that go on in my house all the time. When done respectfully it can be kinda fun actually.

 

I wish you luck with your dilemma.

[salparadise]

Do you really believe that essentially half of all Americans fall into those categories? Some do, no doubt, but half? I just can't believe that myself.

 

Considerably less than half, but a lot more that are simply tolerant of injustice because they can't stand the thought of a dime of their money being used for social programs in our country or overseas. Basically they vote their pocketbook and that's all the perspective they have, the only thing that matters to them. If a politician says he can crank up an infrastructure program that puts a million people to work temporarily and cut their taxes at the same time, that's their man.

[Ronni_W]

If anything, I do think that Trump brought out the worst in a lot of people.

On the other side, he is also bringing out the best in a whole lot of people...and awakening others to start putting forth their best, too. (Uber users, now-former Tom Brady supporters, etc.) It doesn't matter the vehicle through which people are brought up higher -- only that they are.

When I read what you write, it all boils down to one thing. You really dislike the fact that you can't convince him you're right. You would feel SO GOOD if he'd just say, "you're right, how could I have been so blind?" and mean it.

This is only one interpretation -- or perhaps a projection. I didn't get that message at all; in fact, I read what the OP has written as being about the contrary.

 

On the other side, there has been a lot of trying to convince the OP that THIS is the 'right' version of what is in her own head and what she's actually struggling with,

and that she is now 'wrong' about it.

 

"God rest ye, merry gentlemen..."

[ConfusedAF]

I've read this over and over and I didn't see anywhere that anybody said you were a hypocrite (someone who pretends to have beliefs that they really don't). What I have read over and over is that people think you can't mix oil and water. It has nothing to do with your color or your gender or any of that stuff. It's your attitudes.

 

When I read what you write, it all boils down to one thing. You really dislike the fact that you can't convince him you're right. You would feel SO GOOD if he'd just say, "you're right, how could I have been so blind?" and mean it.

 

He, conversely, could care less if you're right or not. It is enough for him that he feels HE is right. His happiness does not hinge on convincing you over to his side. Your happiness seems to need exactly that. I imagine that the dynamic is that you keep bringing it up, and he's sick of hearing about it.

 

That's not about hypocrisy. That's something else - need, control, insecurity, I don't know. Call it whatever you want. The name isn't important, but the part where you want something from him he's not going to give you will never go away, and I can't think of a better recipe for misery for the both of you. Eventually, you'll both resent each other.

 

I'd have a different opinion if you allowed him to have his own point of view without questioning what kind of person he is, but you don't. It's pretty simple to me.

 

Isn't that what you came here to ask?

 

"As am I. And to me, that liberal set of values includes tolerance for the beliefs of others and their right to express them. Can't have it both ways.." Comments like that is what I was referring to. People are free to express their thoughts, but that doesn't mean I won't have an opinion about that. Anyway, he and I disagree all the time about a lot of things and that is not the problem. As I also mentioned, to me this is different due to the misogyny, racism, etc that has been so prevalent in this election. It's not about me just wanting to be right. It's about values. .

[Ronni_W]

Anyway, he and I disagree all the time about a lot of things and that is not the problem. As I also mentioned, to me this is different due to the misogyny, racism, etc that has been so prevalent in this election. It's not about me just wanting to be right. It's about values. .

ConfusedAF,

I think it's okay to stop worrying about it or defending your position.

 

There seems to be some confusion about trying to help other people to raise their own consciousness or get a higher vision -- become less blind and ignorant, in other words. This is part of what we ought to be doing.

Of course, this is different and a far cry from trying to somehow force your own values, beliefs and ideals and ideology on others, and make theirs 'wrong' and yours 'right'; and nowhere have you shown any desire or inclination to do that.

 

You have been quite clear, from the start, what the true issue is -- how others are going to interpret that, however, will come out of their own level of consciousness and psychology.

 

Have a great Saturday!

[ConfusedAF]

So by extension do you believe that physical attacks on Trump supporters, the attacks on the first amendment at various college campuses, riots and ensuing property damage, are representative of the feelings of the majority of liberal voters? Again, I don't.

 

Politics does in fact bring out the worst in people, on both sides of the political spectrum. The trick is to not jump to the conclusion that this somehow represents the beliefs of all people on either side. We really only have two choices in this country (two parties) and if all your beliefs align entirely with one party, consider yourself lucky. This is not the case for most of us.

 

Anyways, I apoligize if I'm bugging you, not really my intent. This is just exactly the sort of arguments that go on in my house all the time. When done respectfully it can be kinda fun actually.

 

I wish you luck with your dilemma.

 

You are not bugging me of course there are people on both sides that take it to extremes and violence should never be condoned or tolerated. I think that a big art of the difference is that with T, you had a candidate that promoted bullying and intolerance. And hate speech was coming out of his own mouth.i think this gave a lot of people permission to be racist, etc.

[ConfusedAF]

ConfusedAF,

I think it's okay to stop worrying about it or defending your position.

 

There seems to be some confusion about trying to help other people to raise their own consciousness or get a higher vision -- become less blind and ignorant, in other words. This is part of what we ought to be doing.

Of course, this is different and a far cry from trying to somehow force your own values, beliefs and ideals and ideology on others, and make theirs 'wrong' and yours 'right'; and nowhere have you shown any desire or inclination to do that.

 

You have been quite clear, from the start, what the true issue is -- how others are going to interpret that, however, will come out of their own level of consciousness and psychology.

 

Have a great Saturday!

Thanks again, Ronni! I really speciation your words. I consider it part of my identity and duty to stand up for what I believe in. So I could not imagine not doing so in my own relationship. Have a great weekend as well!

[Woggle]

He might feel as I do that Trump sucks but we are stuck him now. All the. protesting in the e world does no good if we can't win elections outside of the usual liberal enclaves. It's not that I don't care but I saw it coming and if it weren't him it would he another us against them kind of figure.

[Ronni_W]

I do however, find his lack of caring about what is going on right now hard to understand.. But I also don't want to throw away years of a relationship lightly.... whatever happens, there's no doubt that this whole thing has been difficulty and disappointing

That's really the crux of resolving the issue.

 

I get how difficult it is to try to understand - and accept - where other people are in their level of consciousness, as far as Wisdom, Love, Truth, Justice and Compassion.

And, our own understanding and acceptance are, of course, directly related to and dependent upon the level of those qualities that we ourselves have already attained.

 

When we get to a certain point, then anything below the corresponding point on the other side of the spectrum becomes not only unfathomable but personally intolerable.

And, this is really what needs to be determined. The opposing views are not the problem -- as you have said. It's the distance between the two points, and the potential for it to become narrower...or greater.

 

Again, though, how you perceive that potential will necessarily be according to the point at which you presently are on, in this particular spectrum.

 

It ain't no easy task, dear lady, but do 100% trust your own instincts.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Ronni_W
correction

[ConfusedAF]

That's really the crux of resolving the issue.

 

I get how difficult it is to try to understand - and accept - where other people are in their level of consciousness, as far as Wisdom, Love, Truth, Justice and Compassion.

And, our own understanding and acceptance are, of course, directly related to and dependent upon the level of those qualities that we ourselves have already attained.

 

When we get to a certain point, then anything below the corresponding point on the other side of the spectrum becomes not only unfathomable but personally intolerable.

And, this is really what needs to be determined. The opposing views are not the problem -- as you have said. It's the distance between the two points, and the potential for it to become narrower...or greater.

 

Again, though, how you perceive that potential will necessarily be according to the point at which you presently are on, in this particular spectrum.

 

It ain't no easy task, dear lady, but do 100% trust your own instincts.

 

Wise words. I will keep them in mind. Thanks again!

[ConfusedAF]

He might feel as I do that Trump sucks but we are stuck him now. All the. protesting in the e world does no good if we can't win elections outside of the usual liberal enclaves. It's not that I don't care but I saw it coming and if it weren't him it would he another us against them kind of figure.

 

Maybe. But if he told me that I would understand it more. He has a hard time explaining where he is coming from. I mean he hates government in general. So I think it's more along those lines.

[mightycpa]

"As am I. And to me, that liberal set of values includes tolerance for the beliefs of others and their right to express them. Can't have it both ways.." Comments like that is what I was referring to.

You have to admit, it's a fair point. But by pulling it out into the light, you've helped me frame the question you're asking a little better,, and actually, maybe you are a hypocrite.We'll explore that idea in a little bit. I also have another way of looking at for you, below.

People are free to express their thoughts, but that doesn't mean I won't have an opinion about that. Anyway, he and I disagree all the time about a lot of things and that is not the problem.

I imagine this must be true.

As I also mentioned, to me this is different due to the misogyny, racism, etc that has been so prevalent in this election. It's not about me just wanting to be right. It's about values. .

One way of thinking about this is that maybe it's too much for you. What I mean is that if it was just indifference to misogyny or just indifference to racism or just indifference to etc, then you could put up with it and you wouldn't care. But maybe it is the totality of it, that when you pile one thing on top of another, it points to a mindset that you can't stand the thought of being involved with. Straw that broke the camel's back kind of thing. Before, you saw only the trees, but now you're getting a look at the forest. Like that, just too much for you to stomach. The trouble with this is that you don't really know when he crossed the line. Was it one thing ago? Ten? One hundred? You don't know when you reached your assessment, and that's what is making your decision difficult. It really isn't, but you are understandably reluctant to make the right decision.

 

If so, let's take a different tack to . If I understand what you're saying, misogyny and racism and etc are lines in the sand. They are like murder without cause. These are things so universally wrong and so egregious that they cannot be ignored. To tolerate them is the same thing as supporting them. You can't not take a side. Do you agree with this proposition?

 

This is the question that you must answer first. If you're not sure, then you have to become sure first. This is not about your BF. It's about your standards. You have to be able to articulate your standards first. Given that you're thinking about your BF, it may not be easy to tell yourself the truth about this. Your principles may be challenged by your emotions, and they may yield to your emotions for now. Be wary of this.

 

If you don't agree with this proposition I've laid out, if you think that someone can live in this world without worrying about these things, no matter how odious they are to you, then, yeah, I guess in his case, you are a hypocrite on the proposition that people are free to believe whatever they want. The problem, then, is as I've stated before. You just want to be right. He is generally entitled to his opinions, but because you find these in particular to be so distasteful, your tolerance for people with other ideas has found their limits, at least for him.

 

If you can't let go of that, you need to let go of him, not because of his values, but because of yours. He does not support things you hold dear, and there is a better than even potential he'll ask you to compromise on these principles at some time in the future, because he will need you to be tolerant of people who think like he does. It might be his friend, his family, his boss or his biggest client. It will be somebody. Otherwise, if you truly can let it go, only then do you have a chance.

 

But if your answer is yes, that one must take a stand on these issues, and by not taking a stand, one is by definition taking the wrong stand, then we easily follow that to its logical conclusion: Your BF IS a misogynist and a racist and who knows what else by default.

 

In this case, the hypocrisy would be to carve out an exception for him, because you can't tolerate what you don't tolerate.

 

Maybe looking at it in these two ways would help you.

[lana-banana]

Mightycpa, you are one of my all-time favorite people on these boards and are as wise as the day is long, so your take on this has really surprised me. The OP is wondering whether she can date someone who doesn't share her values, who has repeatedly been dismissive of issues she cares about, and who upholds a philosophy she ultimately doesn't agree with. Those are good questions to ask. But rather than address her concerns you set up strawmen that portray the OP as a complete radical nutjob. Per your assertions if she doesn't like his opinions then she must be judging him as a person, she's obviously intolerant and a hypocrite, she must think everyone who disagrees with her is racist and misogynistic and her boyfriend deserves better. Or something.

 

Just two examples:

 

If I understand what you're saying, misogyny and racism and etc are lines in the sand. They are like murder without cause. These are things so universally wrong and so egregious that they cannot be ignored. To tolerate them is the same thing as supporting them. You can't not take a side. Do you agree with this proposition?

 

No right-thinking person would agree with this proposition, because it is insane. Misogyny and racism are not even remotely like murder. Misogyny and racism are complex evils that arose out of millennia of societal norms, cultural traditions, gender roles, and so on. Everyone perpetuates some degree of misogyny and racism, and we live within a system that promotes them to some way. They are concepts to be recognized and mitigated. They are not singular actions.

 

But if your answer is yes, that one must take a stand on these issues, and by not taking a stand, one is by definition taking the wrong stand, then we easily follow that to its logical conclusion: Your BF IS a misogynist and a racist and who knows what else by default.

 

Bzuh? That is the polar opposite of logical. Not choosing something is not by definition the wrong choice. In this (already farfetched) example I think we'd agree that someone who actively opposed feminism would be a much worse position than someone who simply didn't protest for feminist causes. In this case, the OP's boyfriend doesn't seem to support feminist causes. It does not at all follow that he is a racist or misogynist, because not supporting something does not mean opposing it. Literally no one has said that in this thread except for you.

 

For some reason you are trying to paint the OP as an insufferable Social Justice 101 Tumblr-posting shrieking harpy and deconstructing that instead of talking to the very real person here. Being disappointed by her partner's reaction to current events does not mean she doesn't support free expression or different opinions. The point about how she might be so dangerously intolerant as to cause some kind of scene with a business partner or boss is beyond absurd. Once again there is no evidence anywhere that the OP can't get along with someone who thinks differently than she does, but you are implying she clearly can't handle it.

 

I welcome a broad spectrum of opinions, but that doesn't mean I welcome all of them in my potential life partners. There is a difference between a healthy exchange of ideals or making polite conversation at a cocktail party and spending the rest of your life with someone. If my fiancé woke up tomorrow and said "honey, I don't believe in climate change and I really think abortion ought to be outlawed", that would be the end for us.

 

Healthy relationships are about shared values, especially the ones we hold most dear. Why should political values be exempt?

[Mr. Lucky]

Healthy relationships are about shared values, especially the ones we hold most dear. Why should political values be exempt?

 

Don't think most here are saying they should be and I'll accept a relationship is easier if the fundamental political and social values are shared.

 

But there are good people on both sides of the divide. Asserting that either camp has cornered the market on "misogyny and racism" - amongst other sins - is naive, simplistic and counter to some of the values the OP has professed to hold.

 

I can question my partner's beliefs. Questioning their integrity without considering a greater context is its own lack of tolerance...

 

Mr. Lucky

[stillafool]

"As am I. And to me, that liberal set of values includes tolerance for the beliefs of others and their right to express them. Can't have it both ways.." Comments like that is what I was referring to. People are free to express their thoughts, but that doesn't mean I won't have an opinion about that. Anyway, he and I disagree all the time about a lot of things and that is not the problem. As I also mentioned, to me this is different due to the misogyny, racism, etc that has been so prevalent in this election. It's not about me just wanting to be right. It's about values. .

 

Yes and your values do not match. Break off the engagement and perhaps you will meet another man who has the same values as you. At least you will know you when the next election starts in 4 years that you are with someone who has the same values as you.

[ConfusedAF]

Thank you, Lana-Banana, for putting that into words so eloquently. This is what I've been trying to say.

 

And thanks for the rest of you for your perspective and advice!

[kiss_andmakeup]

Thank you, Lana-Banana, for putting that into words so eloquently. This is what I've been trying to say.

 

And thanks for the rest of you for your perspective and advice!

 

I'll be honest, ConfusedAF. I have similar beliefs to yours and in your situation I would be seriously re-thinking my relationship.

 

I haven't had any problem in the past getting along with people who consider themselves more to the right - Bush II voters, McCain voters, Romney voters - I disagree with them, but I understand their perspective and I enjoyed intelligent political discourse with those people in the past.

 

However, a wrench has been thrown in the wheels this election cycle. Trump embodies everything that I consider to be a "line in the sand," as it has been mentioned earlier in this thread. There is absolutely no way I could be in a relationship with someone who voted for or supports him. I spend my mornings calling local, state, and national representatives (have you downloaded the Countable app? It's an incredible tool for keeping up to date on what legislature is currently being debated by our representatives. It outlines the best ways for you to make your voice heard.), and I spend many of my afternoons or evenings participating in local progressive action committees that put together everything from peaceful protests to information booths.

 

In all of this, my husband has been a partner and a support. While we may disagree on some small specifics, we are both horrified by the state of our government and national culture ATM and it has actually brought us closer together.

 

I just can't imagine coming home to someone every night who not only disagreed about how scary of a time this is, but who then tried to convince me that my efforts for change are a waste. They're not. They're important. This is history - for better or for worse.

 

So, OP, I absolutely think you are in the right to re-examine this relationship. I would likely not be able to continue in it if I were in your shoes.

[mightycpa]

Mightycpa, you are one of my all-time favorite people on these boards and are as wise as the day is long, so your take on this has really surprised me. The OP is wondering whether she can date someone who doesn't share her values, who has repeatedly been dismissive of issues she cares about, and who upholds a philosophy she ultimately doesn't agree with. Those are good questions to ask. But rather than address her concerns you set up strawmen that portray the OP as a complete radical nutjob. Per your assertions if she doesn't like his opinions then she must be judging him as a person, she's obviously intolerant and a hypocrite, she must think everyone who disagrees with her is racist and misogynistic and her boyfriend deserves better. Or something.

 

Just two examples:

 

 

 

No right-thinking person would agree with this proposition, because it is insane. Misogyny and racism are not even remotely like murder. Misogyny and racism are complex evils that arose out of millennia of societal norms, cultural traditions, gender roles, and so on. Everyone perpetuates some degree of misogyny and racism, and we live within a system that promotes them to some way. They are concepts to be recognized and mitigated. They are not singular actions.

 

 

 

Bzuh? That is the polar opposite of logical. Not choosing something is not by definition the wrong choice. In this (already farfetched) example I think we'd agree that someone who actively opposed feminism would be a much worse position than someone who simply didn't protest for feminist causes. In this case, the OP's boyfriend doesn't seem to support feminist causes. It does not at all follow that he is a racist or misogynist, because not supporting something does not mean opposing it. Literally no one has said that in this thread except for you.

 

For some reason you are trying to paint the OP as an insufferable Social Justice 101 Tumblr-posting shrieking harpy and deconstructing that instead of talking to the very real person here. Being disappointed by her partner's reaction to current events does not mean she doesn't support free expression or different opinions. The point about how she might be so dangerously intolerant as to cause some kind of scene with a business partner or boss is beyond absurd. Once again there is no evidence anywhere that the OP can't get along with someone who thinks differently than she does, but you are implying she clearly can't handle it.

 

I welcome a broad spectrum of opinions, but that doesn't mean I welcome all of them in my potential life partners. There is a difference between a healthy exchange of ideals or making polite conversation at a cocktail party and spending the rest of your life with someone. If my fiancé woke up tomorrow and said "honey, I don't believe in climate change and I really think abortion ought to be outlawed", that would be the end for us.

 

Healthy relationships are about shared values, especially the ones we hold most dear. Why should political values be exempt?

You're very sweet too. Thank you.

 

It's a fair point you make. Nevertheless, I think what I've set in a framework is valid.

 

Take issue X. It doesn't matter what it is. Your beliefs about it fall somewhere in this spectrum:

 

 

|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

I dont care ....................................................................... Life or death

Now, multiply that by however many issues are encompassed in the whole "he doesn't care enough" judgment.

 

What she's described about him is that as far as she can tell, nothing approaches "Life or Death" for him. He's a live-and-let-live sort of guy, even on her life and death issues. She, on the other hand, has many things to think about that skew closer to "Life or Death".

 

Read carefully:

This makes me question the kind of person he is and his values.

I didn't say that lana. She did. That statement alone tells the tale. We know what she meant: He's one of THEM. I didn't know before, but he's one of THEM. OMG! What do I do now?

 

There's another post around here somewhere by Gaeta, where her pal euthanized her dog, and Gaeta is convinced that she should have spent the money to save the dog instead of spending 4 times more to get another dog. So, she's done with this friend. It's pretty much the same thing. What they both seem to lack, however, is the courage of their convictions. They're coming here for support, I think because somewhere deep down inside, they know that this is not the most noble of behaviors. If they had no doubts about their actions, they'd brag about these decisions, not question them. These doubts come from within, and for good reason. They are both judging the worth of other human beings that they know not to be evil. That's a little over the top, and somewhere inside, they know it, and it doesn't make them feel good about themselves. So they come here looking for moral support, for people to tell them they're doing the right thing, because they need more people to be on their side to balance out the bad they feel about themselves. A crowd with them will make them feel correct. A crowd against them would make them think twice.

 

Ironically, CAF wants the same thing from her man. Approval and agreement. She wants him to tell her she's thinking the right thing on those other issues. He's not meeting her need. Make no mistake about it. This is a need on her part, and he is not delivering.

 

That's really all I'm trying to point out.

 

What's the right decision? I don't know. But I know this: To love someone is to accept them for who they are, warts and all, and to love them anyway. She can't, whether she knows it or not. It all goes back to her value system. He doesn't qualify. It's probably hard to tell yourself that truth.

 

To your other point, do I think you guys are a little loony left? Sure I do! But I don't mind, that's what makes you who you are. Good for you! And, it's beside the point. She could be a John Birch Society conservative and I'd think the same thing. It's not right or left for me. It's right or wrong, but she has every right to be wrong in my eyes, and I'm only chiming in because she asked for opinions. I'm hoping I can help open her eyes.

 

If she had asked for only the viewpoints of those who agree, I'd have shut up and moved on.

 

Anyway, I hope you're doing well out there. I still credit you with my favorite post ever! Nobody has even come close.