She knew she would marry me, but she passed me by

[elaine567]

This is false. What men are we talking about? The ones who are put on the side lines or the bad boy desirables?

 

Most average men get with a girl and fall in love with them bad or god. Rich or poor. Educated or uneducated.

 

Obviously, if you keep buying sour grapes... your gonna think all grapes are sour. Thats what a lot of women do average or not .... they keep a lot of "safe men around" and date the most desirable. If the desirable fails they reach out to the safest and next desirable guy.

 

Men rarely do this... men do not have orbiters and if they do they are not what I would call the "average male" most likely he shows some sense of power... a lead singer or drumer of a band or a football or star... he will have tons of female orbiters.

 

This is not about "orbiters", this is about girls he dates, girls he sleeps with, girls he spends time with, just like the gf here did.

He does however not see them as wife material just as she did not really see them as husband material.

Or are trying to tell me most men only date one girl, the girl he marries...

[Miss Spider]

This is all utterly ridiculous and if everyone followed this to its conclusion then no-one would marry anyone unless both were virgins for fear of being "settled for".

 

"OMG, he thinks I am "wife material". Better get rid of him pronto.

Who does he think he is?

Having had all that fun with other women and now he thinks he can marry me? NO chance, I am not being settled for...,

Bring me a virgin."

 

Or does it only work when it is the woman who has sowed some wild oats...

 

#doublestandards...

Actually, seems like OP's girl buys into the "red pill" to an extent too. she was the one who made the comment "there are guys you settle down with and guys you enjoy being with" to the guy she was settling down with years after having turned him down.

men do this all the time, and just because women find commitment harder to get than sex from men does NOT mean anyone would like to be "wife material" to a guy who does not find her attractive, fun, sexy, but instead finds her trustworthy, good housekeeper, chaste. You can have both and to create separate boxes is not healthy.

 

Op's girl seems to have the equivalent of Madonna/whore complex in a man. She turned down OP sexually to have "informal relationships" with fun, attractive men. I'd bet if she had found the commitment and nice with the the fun and excitement she wouldn't have created the nice guy/fun guy dichotomy.

[olivetree]

What she said is a little bit ambiguous and can be taken more than one way.

 

Its how your relationship has been with her that will tell you how she meant it.

 

The fact that you are upset and posting here tells me that something is missing in your relationship that makes you doubt she is passionate about you.

[GunslingerRoland]

People tend to have a lot of revisionist history. She is saying you are the one because that is all she can imagine now and it's been like that for 7 years. I highly doubt she really thought you were the one for those 11 years she wouldn't give you the time of day.

 

I see this all the time with couples that aren't sure about each other for years, and then suddenly knew from the moment they saw each other that they were going to get married.

[Timshel]

I see this all the time with couples that aren't sure about each other for years, and then suddenly knew from the moment they saw each other that they were going to get married.

 

What? There is a sentence or something missing....

[Imajerk17]

This is not about "orbiters", this is about girls he dates, girls he sleeps with, girls he spends time with, just like the gf here did.

He does however not see them as wife material just as she did not really see them as husband material.

Or are trying to tell me most men only date one girl, the girl he marries...

 

elaine, you are missing the fact that the genders are very different in a key aspect.

 

A woman being told she is wife material not fling material feels respected. She feels that she is *being taken seriously*.

 

A man being told he is husband material not fling material feels DISrespected. He feels that he is *being settled for*.

 

See, if this were a case of girl finally falls in love with boy after all this time, then I would say great for both of them. But it doesn't sound that this is what is really happening. It sounds that at some point she said to herself that it is time to settle down and there is her friend, he is a good decent nice guy, he will do. Not a great feeling for the guy.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Imajerk17

[Fhsjkfjrhsdh3646]

elaine, you are missing the fact that the genders are very different in a key aspect.

 

A woman being told she is wife material not fling material feels respected. She feels that she is *being taken seriously*.

 

A man being told he is husband material not fling material feels DISrespected. He feels that he is *being settled for*.

 

See, if this were a case of girl finally falls in love with boy after all this time, then I would say great for both of them. But it doesn't sound that this is what is really happening. It sounds that at some point she said to herself that it is time to settle down and there is her friend, he is a good decent nice guy, he will do. Not a great feeling for the guy.

 

Sure, but he let this go on for 7 years before feeling anything about it. If he was happy up to this point (even if he just found out from her), who cares.

 

If their relationship is otherwise good, I don't think this is a big deal. Sure maybe it bruised his ego a bit that he's not the manly stud that he thought he was, but if she's a decent catch, he's the one who ended up with her and not the stud.

[Sweetfish]

This is not about "orbiters", this is about girls he dates, girls he sleeps with, girls he spends time with, just like the gf here did.

He does however not see them as wife material just as she did not really see them as husband material.

Or are trying to tell me most men only date one girl, the girl he marries...

 

 

Society < Reality

 

Maybe its the music videos or the movies... but your preception and reality is skewed. I don't know if its your demographics... but I doubt this, as your side of the world is suffering a man drought? There is no man drought... its that the demand for the top tier men is so desirable they are not dating average men. In reality women in general would have to share the same man over and over again to "quench this drought" so much data including the infamous divorce rates prove this...

 

Men in reality want to have one women in current society standards. Why... because the ability of a man to aquire another average woman is harder. Womens idea of attractive average guy doesnt even meet national averages of most states or countries. The idea that most (average) men wants to hook up with a bunch of bad girls and have a house wife later is B.S.

 

Most men get like so... because they get burned. So they learn (sometimes) to devalue women or learn to devalue them naturally.

 

What you think a bad boy is? He doesn't value women as much as nice guys or good guys and its now her quest to tame him and if she tames him he is done.

 

I

[Timshel]

What she said: some of you asked how sure I am about what she said. She didn't tell me she preferred those guys instead of me. That is just a fact, in the past I tried to date her and all the time she passed me by. And at the same time she dated these other guys. The thing is, even when I never liked that. I took this as a natural thing. Usually your significant other has a sexual past and you can't change that. I always thought that she was trying to find her match and that she dated them thinking they were going to be her boyfriends. Now, knowing she didn't see them as boyfriend pisses me off. That means she was with them only for physical reasons. In other words she was with them for sex. Knowing I wanted to be with her, and knowing she wanted to be with me in the end. That means only one thing: she preferred having sex with them instead of me.

 

This is not an issue of sexual equality.

 

Moebius, did your gf know that you were waiting for her, or was it coincidental that when you were both available that she 'discovered' compatibility and chemistry with you?

 

Imo, in the duration of time that you knew each other prior to your current relationship, it would be surprising that she suddenly became smitten.

 

It does happen occasionally, in the context of 'he was always around but I never noticed till we had a long talk and realized...wow! Right under my nose!' type of thing. Which is rare.

 

If you two have a good thing, keep it going. If you feel you are being snowed, not appreciated, then you should definitely protect your heart.

[elaine567]

I could be wrong, but I feel that the OP is feeling the pressure here. After seven years of dating this has to go somewhere ie marriage and kids

BUT the OP here is a near virgin, he has only been with one woman in his life, his potential bride, and I guess that fact is laying heavy on his mind.

Can he really marry this woman having NEVER slept with anyone else? Probably not, but he has no valid reason not to marry her, she is the "love of his life".

 

However enter a great excuse -

"She is "settling" for me, she is a 'promiscuous' woman who has had the audacity to date and sleep with other guys before me and is now just 'settling' for me."

"I don't want to but I have no other option but to dump her, I am now perfectly justified in dumping her here. Who on earth wants to be 'settled for'??"

 

If this is how he feels and he does want out to pursue other options or he has lost respect for her or both, then he needs to come clean asap and not waste her time any longer.

[Timshel]

I could be wrong, but I feel that the OP is feeling the pressure here. After seven years of dating this has to go somewhere ie marriage and kids

BUT the OP here is a near virgin, he has only been with one woman in his life, his potential bride, and I guess that fact is laying heavy on his mind.

Can he really marry this woman having NEVER slept with anyone else? Probably not, but he has no valid reason not to marry her, she is the "love of his life".

 

However enter a great excuse -

"She is "settling" for me, she is a 'promiscuous' woman who has had the audacity to date and sleep with other guys before me and is now just 'settling' for me."

"I don't want to but I have no other option but to dump her, I am now perfectly justified in dumping her here. Who on earth wants to be 'settled for'??"

 

If this is how he feels and he does want out to pursue other options or he has lost respect for her or both, then he needs to come clean asap and not waste her time any longer.

 

I agree with this elaine....reading the OP though, I don't think it's about the gf being promiscuous or being with other guys. He patiently abided this until she revealed that she was cognizant of his loyalty all the while.

 

OP will need to give an opinion about this, imo it's not about her exploring her options and more that she felt 'safe' to exhaust all others as he was on belay. If one of the 'fun' one's had asked her hand, would she have had the epiphany of marriage with OP?

 

He will never know the answer to that question. It isn't the end necessarily but he is right to explore his feelings about it prior to a lifetime commitment.

[olivetree]

OP really hasn't given a window into his actual relationship.

There really is no way of knowing how she meant what she said without that.

 

Assuming all has been good in their relationship, then she was only meaning to be romantic and this has gotten way out of hand.

 

OP, sure, she could have picked her words better and I understand your hurt.

But unless she has given you reason to doubt her feelings for you, you need to trust her.

 

I think she was simply looking back with 20/20 hindsight, trying to say that she always knew there was something special about you but she wasn't ready/mature enough to appreciate it yet.

 

When you're young and don't know yourself well enough yet, your priorities are different.

You want the cool, good looking guy to feed your insecure ego.

When you get older, a better sense of who you are and what you want, and you realize who you've been dating are not people you could imagine growing old with (ie. they would annoy the hell out of you if they weren't good looking) you stop caring about that shallow stuff.

You want the person you have a deep, earth-shattering connection with.

Presumably she has that with you.

If so, it makes her other relationships look meaningless.

 

If anything, I think your inexperience is making it difficult for you to see that, because you've only ever really wanted her.

 

Again, this is all presuming she has never made you feel like she is settling for you until this point.

[Fhsjkfjrhsdh3646]

OP really hasn't given a window into his actual relationship.

There really is no way of knowing how she meant what she said without that.

 

Assuming all has been good in their relationship, then she was only meaning to be romantic and this has gotten way out of hand.

 

OP, sure, she could have picked her words better and I understand your hurt.

But unless she has given you reason to doubt her feelings for you, you need to trust her.

 

I think she was simply looking back with 20/20 hindsight, trying to say that she always knew there was something special about you but she wasn't ready/mature enough to appreciate it yet.

 

When you're young and don't know yourself well enough yet, your priorities are different.

You want the cool, good looking guy to feed your insecure ego.

When you get older, a better sense of who you are and what you want, and you realize who you've been dating are not people you could imagine growing old with (ie. they would annoy the hell out of you if they weren't good looking) you stop caring about that shallow stuff.

You want the person you have a deep, earth-shattering connection with.

Presumably she has that with you.

If so, it makes her other relationships look meaningless.

 

If anything, I think your inexperience is making it difficult for you to see that, because you've only ever really wanted her.

 

Again, this is all presuming she has never made you feel like she is settling for you until this point.

 

Very well said..

[Lord Humungus]

More often than not, the lucky chump who lands himself a post sexual exploration partner will question the integrity of their bond and their “special relationship” with someone who has so freely given away to others the very same thing that he has to jump through hoops for.

 

It’s hardly surprising that he feels tricked, hoodwinked even. Everyone else got their kicks for free and were desired in a way he will never experience; he has to earn begrudging attention from someone who still fondly longs for the thugs of yester year; sacrificing his own dignity and self-respect for a mere moments validation.

 

The biggest lie women still perpetuate, (with the assistance of beta males) is that their past will be forgiven and forgotten when they tell their life long partner it was “just self-exploration” or “The past is the past”… This cognitive dissonance doesn’t translate well in the male brain. The past is exactly who you are, there is no other reference point.

 

When a man finally speaks up about this genuine concern, he is met with a barrage of shaming language and accusations of insecurities; or lacking physical traits that women desire; these tactics are pathetic, pointless and are no longer working.

 

Relations between the sexes have crumbled since the sexual revolution in the 60’s. When you destroy the illusion of chastity and reservation in women, men will judge them as equals (instead of as the best of us). Men are bastards to each other with extremely low toleration.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Lord Humungus
Spelling

[Gr8fuln2020]

Relations between the sexes have crumbled since the sexual revolution in the 60’s. When you destroy the illusion of chastity and reservation in women, men will judge them as equals (instead of as the best of us). Men are bastards to each other with extremely low toleration.

 

I agree...with a twist. Relationships have become much more difficult NOW that men have no choice but to treat women with respect b/c women are now free to demand it. Men, in general, have a difficult time sharing power, so too many of them tend to show their inability to cope. I grew up in a family consisting of a stong(er) mother and supportive father. I know what respect looks like and happily extend that to the women I date, marry, etc. No insecurity, no need to create an illusion.

 

The OP is showing symptoms of someone who is incapable of separating the past (which really has nothing to do with the current reality). Insecurity and anger. I married and dated women who all had loves before me. I was not their first or even 10th choice in many cases, but that was irrelevant. I focus on the here and now. So should the OP.

 

It was simply unfortunate for the gf to mention that she had feelings for him in past in the manner she did. W/o her comments, this thread would not exisit.

[Lord Humungus]

I agree...with a twist. Relationships have become much more difficult NOW that men have no choice but to treat women with respect b/c women are now free to demand it..

 

You are right, but not in the way I think you meant. Relationships are more difficult now because women DEMAND respect, when what they should do is earn it. I guess that would require a lot of foresight and effort though... All the time it is easier to scream misogyny and patriarchy, whilst ignoring historical facts that demonstrably outline the innumerable deaths of men to protect the sanctity of women; I can almost understand why you would come to that conclusion.

 

 

Men, in general, have a difficult time sharing power, so too many of them tend to show their inability to cope.

 

 

Men, in general, have no power. Most cope perfectly well with an employer/boss. Men are not the entitled sex you make them out to be.

 

 

 

 

I grew up in a family consisting of a stong(er) mother and supportive father. I know what respect looks like and happily extend that to the women I date, marry, etc. No insecurity, no need to create an illusion.

 

 

Most households are run by the mother. You just have to open your eyes. the "Happy wife, happy life" & SWMBO sayings didn't just rock up for no reason.

 

 

The OP is showing symptoms of someone who is incapable of separating the past (which really has nothing to do with the current reality).

 

 

LOL! - A 20 foot Oak tree grew in my garden, it had nothing to do with the acorn I planted 12 years ago...

 

 

Insecurity and anger. I married and dated women who all had loves before me. I was not their first or even 10th choice in many cases, but that was irrelevant. I focus on the here and now. So should the OP.

 

 

I came last place in a one off 10km run, boy did I feel like a winner being the last person that will ever get to cross that line.

 

 

It was simply unfortunate for the gf to mention that she had feelings for him in past in the manner she did. W/o her comments, this thread would not exisit.

 

 

I agree, it sounds like he was happy until she made him see the reality (current or otherwise)

[preraph]

More often than not, the lucky chump who lands himself a post sexual exploration partner will question the integrity of their bond and their “special relationship” with someone who has so freely given away to others the very same thing that he has to jump through hoops for.

 

It’s hardly surprising that he feels tricked, hoodwinked even. Everyone else got their kicks for free and were desired in a way he will never experience; he has to earn begrudging attention from someone who still fondly longs for the thugs of yester year; sacrificing his own dignity and self-respect for a mere moments validation.

 

The biggest lie women still perpetuate, (with the assistance of beta males) is that their past will be forgiven and forgotten when they tell their life long partner it was “just self-exploration” or “The past is the past”… This cognitive dissonance doesn’t translate well in the male brain. The past is exactly who you are, there is no other reference point.

 

When a man finally speaks up about this genuine concern, he is met with a barrage of shaming language and accusations of insecurities; or lacking physical traits that women desire; these tactics are pathetic, pointless and are no longer working.

 

Relations between the sexes have crumbled since the sexual revolution in the 60’s. When you destroy the illusion of chastity and reservation in women, men will judge them as equals (instead of as the best of us). Men are bastards to each other with extremely low toleration.

 

Women freed by the revolution of the '60s couldn't care less that some men would judge them and don't want those men anyway. Trust me, they are a lot happier than the women of the '50s were. Men are just mad they lost power and control. I can't believe you even used the word "chastity." What a hypocrite.

[preraph]

As for sex, well someone with that experience, you should be having porn star style sex; if you are not, then that's just something else she reserved solely for the carousel too..

 

P.S. People who actually have a social life and date and have sex don't waste much time sitting around watching porn.

[moebius]

...She did not know she was going to end up with you, she did what was right for her at the time...

Well, that's is what I thought until she said exactly the opposite. My "issues" start the day she tells me she always knew she would end up marrying me. Why? Because I just like anybody else used to think that she was with other guys because she was trying to find the right one. And then she couldn't knew who was going to be the last one. Am I wrong in thinking that most people think like this?

 

I talked to a friend whose girlfriend has had other guys before him. And he has had his own experience too. He told me he can bare with it because she says she wishes she could have known she was going to be with him. And then she would have saved herself for him. Now, of course that's impossible. But I think it's about thinking what she would have done.

 

My girlfriend tells me now that she knew she wanted me for a husband. And still she had sex with these other guys.

 

@TheWoman Let me ask you this: Would you have sex with a guy you find hot, if at the same time you had already decided who was the (other) guy you were going to marry?

[moebius]

... I married and dated women who all had loves before me. I was not their first or even 10th choice in many cases, but that was irrelevant...

You weren't there to be their first choice, were you?

 

You want to compare different things: I was her first choice for marrying but the last choice for sex. I find that insulting. Specially because it's he who is giving me that information.

[Ronnys93]

You weren't there to be their first choice, were you?

 

You want to compare different things: I was her first choice for marrying but the last choice for sex. I find that insulting. Specially because it's he who is giving me that information.

 

Well the fact is, you can't change what she said, or what she did in the past. So now you have to make a decision. You've already addressed it, so you can leave the issue alone, continue to push it (possibly making matters worse, end the relationship, or drop it altogether.

[WaitingForBardot]

You weren't there to be their first choice, were you?

 

You want to compare different things: I was her first choice for marrying but the last choice for sex. I find that insulting. Specially because it's he who is giving me that information.

No, actually you weren't. This is just what you keep telling yourself. You have twisted what was a poorly-worded expression of love into something it just isn't.

 

IMO obviously...

Edited February 4, 2017 by WaitingForBardot

[mightycpa]

I've been with my girlfriend for seven years, but I've known her for eighteen years already. Since the first day a fell for her. And even when I tried to date her she would pass my by at that time. During those years she kept dating or just seeing good looking, but pretty stupid, guys. She had a lot of informal relationships.

I never liked that situation but seven years ago she came back to me. And we started dating properly. She is my second girlfriend but the only one I've been intimate with. I did a lot for overcoming the bad feelings from those years I waited for her. And it hasn't been a problem until three weeks ago she told me she always knew (from the time we met) she would end up dating me to build up a family.

I guess she said that thinking it was a sweet thing to say and I should probably take it that way. But I feel sick instead. She also said long time ago "there're guys you date for a boyfriend, and there're guys you date for having fun".

In the end what she is really telling me is I'm a good husband prospect. But for having fun she chose other guys to sleep around.

I was so pissed off that she noticed that. She said that i should be proud and I shouldn't mind about that. As I stood mad at her she tried to change the meaning of her words. But was pointless as it was so clear what she meant the first day.

Right now I find what she said offensive. But I love her and I don't want to break up a seven years relationship. I tried to ignore the whole thing but was useless. I can't stop thinking about it.

 

What should I do?

Wow! 25 years ago, I met a woman, and on the day I met her, I knew I'd marry her.

 

At the time, I was dating the best girlfriend I ever had, bar none. She was so pretty, had a great body, she was fun, kind, loving, educated, independent, ambitious, friendly, everything and she f*cked like a PORN STAR and SHE LOVED ME. She loved me! ME! I knew I'd never do any better than her. She was everything a man might want. I wasn't looking for anybody or anything. We were together for about 3 years.

 

3 years later, I was married to the one I'd met 3 years before. I never changed my mind. I always considered the other one the best girlfriend I'd ever had. I never wanted to marry anybody but my wife. Seemingly contradictory, right?

 

Years later, my wife asked me about that when we were talking about her. I guess it had bugged her all this time, and she never really said anything.

 

Why do you call her the best girlfriend ever, and you married me? Why didn't you marry her if she was so good?

I told her it was simple. There are things that you value in a girlfriend that you would not value in a wife. With a girlfriend, you're free. With a girlfriend, you're impressing your friends. With a girlfriend, you don't have to make any sacrifices.

 

But with a wife, there are things you value in them that you do not value in a girlfriend. With a wife, you are not free. With a wife, you are satisfying yourself, not impressing your friend. With a wife, you're happy to make the sacrifices.

 

Stop being so f*cking sensitive. She's had a bunch of guys, and after all that, she's chosen you. What exactly do you want from her? If you can't handle the uncomfortable subjects, the things that you'd rather not hear, you don't deserve her. You don't deserve to be married.

 

Now, grow up. There was life before you. Now there's life with you. Don't f*ck it up by wishing you were "the only one." That's beyond childish.

[WaitingForBardot]

If I may be so bold, the Cliff's Notes version...

 

/snip/

She's had a bunch of guys, and after all that, she's chosen you. What exactly do you want from her?

/snip/

[WomenWubber]

Somehow I get the feeling that if she was the one for you to marry, you would have already married her.

 

I mean 7 years... you only live once dude.