Do men lie about wanting kids just so she could stick around?

[LookAtThisPOst]

I was talking with this woman once, age 38, and she said she wanted children...even at this age. She was going through a divorce. I had asked her why hadn't she had children with her soon-to-be ex?

 

She said that he lied about wanting kids when they first met, then when the time came to have them...he revealed he never wanted them and thus the divorce.

 

Question, is that really a good reason to be divorcing and next...how many people who prefer to not have children have lied to keep that person around so they don't dump them a few months into dating them.

 

The last woman I dated had a 5 year live-in boyfriend that was in his mid-40s that said yes to having kids, in the beginning of the relation, but "changed his mind" 5 years later.

 

I guess he didn't want to have to do without the companionship or whatever?

 

I hear this is more common than not that it happens? Yes? No?

 

Of course these men were at an age where it would be obvious why they wouldn't want kids though.

[preraph]

It's a real problem when this happens, and it does happen. The guy thinks he can change her mind, or maybe in the back of his mind, he's thinking he'll leave her as soon as she's a certain age to trade her in for younger woman anyway. Who knows?

 

I used to run a childfree forum and the most common scenario about this type thing was women knowing the man didn't want children and then assuming they would change their mind (because they can't conceive that someone wouldn't want children) and then they'd stay with them anyway and see if they could just trap him into it by getting pregnant. If I was a man who didn't want kids, I'd have a vasectomy.

 

The worst thing about this scenario is the person who is trying to coerce the one who doesn't want kids into having kids is only thinking about themself. They don't care if the partner doesn't like it as long as they get a kid, and worst of all, they certainly aren't thinking about the poor child who they have just saddled to a life of having one parent who never wanted them and probably isn't going to be a happy parent and brought them into a contentious household with deep resentment.

 

So either way it shakes down, they guy lying or the woman entrapping the man or the man entrapping a woman by hiding her birth control, it's sick and horrible for the child.

[CaliforniaGirl]

Is it a good reason to divorce? Well, each person will have his/her own reasons, but this is a gigantic betrayal directly involving a life's goal this woman surely had before she even met the man, so I'm going to say, from an outsider's perspective FWTW, yes, it's certainly understandable.

 

As for whether people do lie about such things: people do lie, about bigger or smaller things; I don't know that this is a "routine" lie or anything, though. I don't know when I've ever heard of it IRL, for example (v. hearing it second-hand on the internet, I mean).

[SevenCity]

Guys can an do lie about anything to get laid. I've changed my position a bit on having kids. First I was against it but now I might have them with the right girl.

 

My requirements for having kids is to meet a girl I want to spend the rest of my life with. To me that is far more important than having a kid. A lot of women want a kid regardless of finding the right person to have them with. Hence, why so many get divorced despite having kids.

 

Just because I don't want kids with YOU, doesn't mean I will never have them. Women break of RLs after years after they say they will love you forever; I see nothing wrong with a guy open to the possibility but then deciding he doesn't want a kid with a particular girl. Or changing his mind at some point for that matter.

[GunslingerRoland]

Like I said in the other thread where you brought this up, my thinking from what I've seen is it's less about men out and out lying about wanting kids, and more about men who don't want kids, but think they will reach an age where they want kids.

 

The woman knows she wants kids, but doesn't want them yet, the man doesn't want kids, but thinks he will want them in the future. They use the same terminology, but it's 2 very different things.

 

She will most likely reach the point where she is ready to have kids, since she already wants them. But for him he actually has to start wanting kids. It does happen to some people, but it isn't a guarantee by any means. And the less amount of time before she actually wants to start having those kids, the less likely he'll actually have started wanting kids.

[Popsicle]

The reason to divorce is because they have different goals.

[LookAtThisPOst]

My requirements for having kids is to meet a girl I want to spend the rest of my life with.

 

That's just it, the clincher is, "The right person" or "The girl I want to spend to spend the rest of my life with."

 

I knew of a woman that dated a guy for 5 years, and after that time...though she loved him...DID want kids...but NOT with him. (He was open to kids).

 

When she told him this, it stung.

 

So apparently the concept of "the one" (quoting Morpheus, lol) lays anchored on whether or not a child is involved.

 

Sure, you can date someone for years, but if they are not "the one" they wont have a kid with that person.

 

Imagine your relationship decision making processes lie on that.

 

It's like "You're a great guy/gal, I love ya, but....you're good enough for now...until I do find someone I want to have a child with."

 

A lot of women want a kid regardless of finding the right person to have them with. Hence, why so many get divorced despite having kids.

 

Right...and I'm finding single women without children, over 40, that now want them...in desperation. I know of a woman t hat was married only 1 year to a guy that never loved her in the first place...but she's in some kind of panic mode to have a kid at 42.

 

I'm thinking they had all this time to have a kid, adopt, do in vitro fertilization, but the fact of the matter...they want a man to help her raise the child.

Edited January 27, 2017 by LookAtThisPOst

[LookAtThisPOst]

Like I said in the other thread where you brought this up, my thinking from what I've seen is it's less about men out and out lying about wanting kids, and more about men who don't want kids, but think they will reach an age where they want kids.

 

The woman knows she wants kids, but doesn't want them yet, the man doesn't want kids, but thinks he will want them in the future. They use the same terminology, but it's 2 very different things.

 

She will most likely reach the point where she is ready to have kids, since she already wants them. But for him he actually has to start wanting kids. It does happen to some people, but it isn't a guarantee by any means. And the less amount of time before she actually wants to start having those kids, the less likely he'll actually have started wanting kids.

 

I think what you said made sense...started sounding like that "Who's on first" Abbot and Costello routine (I'm dating myself, lol)

 

What do you mean "started WANTING kids"?

 

I hear of married couples that BOTH vow not to have them, have other married friends tell them, "Nah, you're going to want them later, in the future!! LOL" As if they were prophets or something.

 

Unfortunately, somewhere down the road, someone wants a kid, and bad...the other stuck to their vow of not having them and then what?

[LookAtThisPOst]

Guys can an do lie about anything to get laid. I've changed my position a bit on having kids. First I was against it but now I might have them with the right girl.

 

My requirements for having kids is to meet a girl I want to spend the rest of my life with. To me that is far more important than having a kid. A lot of women want a kid regardless of finding the right person to have them with. Hence, why so many get divorced despite having kids.

 

Just because I don't want kids with YOU, doesn't mean I will never have them. Women break of RLs after years after they say they will love you forever; I see nothing wrong with a guy open to the possibility but then deciding he doesn't want a kid with a particular girl. Or changing his mind at some point for that matter.

 

So you're saying that a guy reserves the right to change his mind later...but he winds up being the bad guy because SHE thought he made her think otherwise?

[LookAtThisPOst]

I was also wondering, should you bring something like this up in a 1st date situation? Is it appropriate? How far along into the dating process do you ask, "Do you want children?"

 

Some people get to the point of really clicking with the person, talk briefly about it, but don't take the decisions or answers in that moment all too seriously.

 

I mean, when do you bring it up, 1st date? 5th Date 10th date? While sexually active as a new couple?

[Better]

I've never wanted kids. I don't bring it up unless someone asks me, but it definitely gets brought up in any serious relationship. I like kids, but that is not the lifestyle for me.

 

I was married for a long time to a woman who also didn't want kids. We divorced but that wasn't the issue. We were both fine with not wanting kids up front in our early-20s through our late 30s.

 

I had a few serious relationships in the interim before I met my next fiance. She would tell anyone anything just to reel them in and get married, because that was her only goal. When I said I didn't want kids, she seemed fine with that and I thought we were on the same wavelength. As it turns out, she really wanted kids (at 40!) and thought she would change my mind. When I never wavered in what I told her, she left me at the altar. I guess she didn't believe me.

 

I am now dating an amazing woman who also doesn't want to have kids, as far as I know. It didn't come up on the first date but those things I think come organically. I'm in my 40s now and she's in her 30s. Just being up front once things start to get a little more serious is key as long as you are honest.

[GunslingerRoland]

I think what you said made sense...started sounding like that "Who's on first" Abbot and Costello routine (I'm dating myself, lol)

 

What do you mean "started WANTING kids"?

 

I hear of married couples that BOTH vow not to have them, have other married friends tell them, "Nah, you're going to want them later, in the future!! LOL" As if they were prophets or something.

 

Unfortunately, somewhere down the road, someone wants a kid, and bad...the other stuck to their vow of not having them and then what?

 

It's tough to explain, but there is: I want kids, I love kids, I know I want to have kids for sure myself. But I'm too young to have kids, so I'll wait 5 years to have kids.

 

And then there is: I don't want to have kids, I don't like kids. But I'm young and people usually have kids, so I guess in 5 years I'm going to want kids.

 

2 very different things, BUT both might explain it as "Yeah i want kids someday but not now".

 

Now 5 years passes. The first person still loves kids, wants kids and feels they are ready for kids. The second person, may or may not want kids now.

They weren't being intentionally dishonest. They just made assumptions about their future self that were wrong.

[SevenCity]

So you're saying that a guy reserves the right to change his mind later...but he winds up being the bad guy because SHE thought he made her think otherwise?

 

Yep. People change their minds all the time. I'm not happy about it but I've learned to live with it and now have embraced it.

[SevenCity]

I was also wondering, should you bring something like this up in a 1st date situation? Is it appropriate? How far along into the dating process do you ask, "Do you want children?"

 

Some people get to the point of really clicking with the person, talk briefly about it, but don't take the decisions or answers in that moment all too seriously.

 

I mean, when do you bring it up, 1st date? 5th Date 10th date? While sexually active as a new couple?

 

If you ask a woman over 35 who wants kids she will say to ask even before you go out on a date. Online people usually list if they want them or not.

 

The sad thing about this is women who want kids tend to put more importance on the future child than the compatibility with the guy. Then you end up with another divorce to add to the statistic.

 

At my age (40s) this is discussed almost immediately. Women who already have kids back off a bit on the timeline as they are in no rush.

[GunslingerRoland]

My requirements for having kids is to meet a girl I want to spend the rest of my life with. To me that is far more important than having a kid. A lot of women want a kid regardless of finding the right person to have them with. Hence, why so many get divorced despite having kids.

 

This might sounds slightly discriminatory against people who don't have kids andI know every person and couple can have their own issues regardless of kids. But for many couples without kids they can literally go on for years as basically roommates who have sex, and it's not much of an issue. If you have enough money you can sometimes go years without having to make major decisions, so conflicts tend to be few.

 

But all of the sudden you add children, and every little thing becomes a major decision point. Where to go for dinner, requires more consideration to make as a parent sometimes, than where to live as a child less couple. You don't see the true colors of another person until you see them angry, stressed, under pressure. And for many that doesn't happen much at all until their are children in the mix.

 

I'd say this is a much bigger reason for divorces with children than not trying to find the right person hard enough.

[SevenCity]

This might sounds slightly discriminatory against people who don't have kids andI know every person and couple can have their own issues regardless of kids. But for many couples without kids they can literally go on for years as basically roommates who have sex, and it's not much of an issue. If you have enough money you can sometimes go years without having to make major decisions, so conflicts tend to be few.

 

But all of the sudden you add children, and every little thing becomes a major decision point. Where to go for dinner, requires more consideration to make as a parent sometimes, than where to live as a child less couple. You don't see the true colors of another person until you see them angry, stressed, under pressure. And for many that doesn't happen much at all until their are children in the mix.

 

I'd say this is a much bigger reason for divorces with children than not trying to find the right person hard enough.

 

Rather than discriminatory, your post made me want to get a vasectomy!

 

I agree though, a lot of people have kids in order to save the marriage but it has the exact opposite effect. Kids are UBER stressful and I don't think most people are prepared for it.

 

However, if there is a strong bond where the relationship between the partners comes FIRST, it can often be overcome.

 

I see most people put the kids first and it is a train wreck waiting to happen.

[preraph]

I was also wondering, should you bring something like this up in a 1st date situation? Is it appropriate? How far along into the dating process do you ask, "Do you want children?"

 

Some people get to the point of really clicking with the person, talk briefly about it, but don't take the decisions or answers in that moment all too seriously.

 

I mean, when do you bring it up, 1st date? 5th Date 10th date? While sexually active as a new couple?

 

No, not the first date. Too serious and the person doesn't know you at all and then it just invites talk about the exes. I would say have the conversation before you have sex.

[GunslingerRoland]

Rather than discriminatory, your post made me want to get a vasectomy!

 

I agree though, a lot of people have kids in order to save the marriage but it has the exact opposite effect. Kids are UBER stressful and I don't think most people are prepared for it.

 

However, if there is a strong bond where the relationship between the partners comes FIRST, it can often be overcome.

 

I see most people put the kids first and it is a train wreck waiting to happen.

 

Well when I say discriminatory I mean that I don't think couples without kids necessarily have easy lives. Their are many factors that go into it. They could be struggling working 80 hour shifts each, they may be looking after ailing relatives, have their own physical or mental struggles. I don't mean to disregard those.

 

It's just that even with a lot of those, dealing with them, doesn't always involve the amount of planning, working together, decision making and conflict that dealing with children can have.

[LookAtThisPOst]

 

At my age (40s) this is discussed almost immediately. Women who already have kids back off a bit on the timeline as they are in no rush.

 

Yeah, same here, almost 45 and I see women in their mid 40s wanting children. I know one that's 47, wants to get married and have kids. Kind of narrows the options down since most men in their 40s already became a pappa and have the "V".

 

I recall a woman that dated guy, started liking him and she's in her early 50s....a few dates in when she found out he had a vasectomy...instant deal breaker...although she wants to foster/adopt...it's the very idea that he went to do something that had such "permanence" to it that turned her off.

 

That that meant, regardless of even adopting/fostering...that getting a vasectomy was a sure fire way he wanted no kids in his life whatsoever. Apparently, men who get sterilized (vasectomy?) are labeled with a stigma by some women.

[GunslingerRoland]

Yeah, same here, almost 45 and I see women in their mid 40s wanting children. I know one that's 47, wants to get married and have kids. Kind of narrows the options down since most men in their 40s already became a pappa and have the "V".

 

I recall a woman that dated guy, started liking him and she's in her early 50s....a few dates in when she found out he had a vasectomy...instant deal breaker...although she wants to foster/adopt...it's the very idea that he went to do something that had such "permanence" to it that turned her off.

 

That that meant, regardless of even adopting/fostering...that getting a vasectomy was a sure fire way he wanted no kids in his life whatsoever. Apparently, men who get sterilized (vasectomy?) are labeled with a stigma by some women.

 

It is worth asking, did this man actually want kids?

 

Also worth asking what the situation was when he had the vasectomy, if he was in a marriage where his wife definitely didn't want kids, it's a different scenario than if he was single and decided he was never having kids no matter what.

[spiderowl]

Yes, it is a good reason to divorce someone. Having children is very important to a lot of women. If the guy changes his mind, there is no reason why she should change hers. He has in fact lied or misrepresented himself.

[RecentChange]

I think it's an excellent reason to divorce. It's one of the most fundamental things that a couple needs to agree on.

 

I have always known I didn't want kids. My own father will verify that I started stating this fact when I was in elementary school.

 

And as far as dating, when do (or did, I am married now) bring this up? Before I would sleep with someone. So, I would have the "by the way, I am NEVER having kids" talk before even casual sex. While I am a strict regarding condom use, ya never know, and I didn't ever want to be stuck in a position that was contrary to his beliefs. Pro life? We aren't having sex because I am not going to be a mother.

 

So, when I met my now husband, I had the "I don't ever want kids" talk within the first week - he said he was of the same volition - wonderful!

 

Now, about 9 years later, **** hit the fan. His father died tragically, he was depressed and struggling with a lot of baggage from his youth. This is also when he "lost his mind" and cheated - and was essentially questioning everything. And at that point started to question if he wanted kids.....

 

And as much as I love him, I couldn't. I know it's not right for me. It's not something I can compromise on - and told him as much. He was free to leave if kids were what he needed, because it's not something I can provide.

 

It turned out to be a short phase, and 6+ years later, we now have friends with kids, and I hear from him often how glad he is that he isn't living that lifestyle.

 

And I agree with Roland. Children are the ultimate test of a relationship. I think I have a pretty good one, we have been through some crap and came out the other side smelling like roses - but I have zero desire to add kids to the mix.

 

As for lying... Changing minds... Yes, there are a lot of people that are either dishonest or unsure of what they want.

 

I had a friend who spent 10 years waiting for him to "change his mind" - he didn't, she moved on and found someone else.

[Timshel]

I have kept telling my SO that I want a baby, teasing...he has adamantly replied NO, 'cept for you sweetie.

My hysterectomy has kept him safe..till now.

 

So, we're going to be grands....he's going to change dipes, give bottles and put a pillow over his head babysitting.....:lmao:

[gaius]

I have kept telling my SO that I want a baby, teasing...he has adamantly replied NO, 'cept for you sweetie.

My hysterectomy has kept him safe..till now.

 

So, we're going to be grands....he's going to change dipes, give bottles and put a pillow over his head babysitting.....:lmao:

So excited. It's not gonna stop me from trying to have a baby with you though.

 

And the answer to the OP is yes, women have to be careful who they pick because some people will not be honest.