The e-mails stopped, do I trust it?

[EndoftheRope]

H and I have been married 16 years. Maybe 6 years ago, I found him reading e-mail in an account I never knew he had. He got upset when I saw it. Much of his inbox consisted of e-mails from a female friend I'd never heard of.

 

He eventually told me he got rid of his e-mail account to keep the peace in our marriage. I later found out he just opened another one, and kept it secret, too.

 

I got into the e-mail in March to find out what he's hiding, and found two flirtatious exchanges with a young female co-worker, one with a rep for sleeping with married men. He talks about the men and plenty of women he works with. But I'd never heard of her. When I asked him questions, he lied, not knowing I'd already seen the e-mails.

 

I asked him to re-direct her to our joint account if it's all innocent. He didn't.

 

I've been watching his e-mail account since March, and she e-mails him forwards, saying what a great and special friend he is, or trading personal information, at least 3 times a week. They usually end with something like, 'If you feel the same, return this to me,' and he always does. He's much more likely to reply to her e-mails than to mine, in fact.

 

In early June, he got angry and shouted his password at me. Her e-mails to him dropped instantly to 2 in the last 6 weeks. The overall volume of e-mail to and from friends has dropped since he gave me access.

 

In light of his history of setting up new accounts, lying, his insistence that there's nothing wrong with this friendship, his getting angry every time I mention her, and the fact that I have no idea what goes on between them at work, I assume he's just set up another account and carried on.

 

In his favor, he's been making great effort in other problem areas of our marriage, and I know from our keylogger--which he doesn't know we have-- that he has not been to any other e-mail accounts from our home computer.

 

Am I being unfair to continue being suspicious of him? If I am on the other hand wise not to trust too quickly considering the history, how much evidence does it take to begin trusting him again? (Last time, he'd had the second secret e-mail probably over a year before I stumbled across it.)

 

Thanks for any words of wisdom.

[A Fly onThe Wall]

Why would you want to squeeze his ballz like that ..

 

You make no mention that these e-mails are " Affair " in nature..

Just that he is e-mailing someone..

 

Yet I noticed you weren't honest with him and told him you had been reading his e-mail since march ..

 

Do a role reversal .. How would you feel if you were in your husbands shoes ???

 

 

Sounds to me that you are insecure.. Maybe rightfuly so in the beginning but after you found out it was nothing then I don't think so

[EndoftheRope]

The original two e-mails were quite flirtatious-- calling her 'baby,' telling her she's 'cute,' telling her she's 'one of his few friends here.' She thinks his 'favorite thing' is hanging out at her desk, and her favorite memories of him are "too many." And yet I've never heard of her?? The following e-mails were all telling him repeatedly what a good friend he is, and I do find that strange for a married man to have female friends his wife never hears about. To me, this most definitely sounds like 'affair' in nature, even if 'only' an emotional affair.

 

So I guess I respectfully disagree with you that I found out 'it was nothing.' Even after months to think on it, I DO think it's something when a man HIDES a friendship with a woman. I can't even imagine that I could be such good friends with someone, and NOT mention them routinely to my husband. He, too, talks about all his other friends--except the one who's a good enough friend to constantly e-mail him.

 

It is hard to put myself in his shoes, because I have never hidden any male friends from my husband. Nor have I set up secret e-mail accounts and hidden them from my husband. Nor do I have ANYONE e-mailing me that he has not known about for years. My e-mail sat open all day for anyone to read, and I told him who e-mailed me, and even read my male friends' e-mails to him. He knew to the detail who every single one of those men was.

 

But if I were in his shoes and found out he'd been looking at my e-mail, I wouldn't think twice, because it sat open all day, anyway, open to the world, with nothing to hide, and absolutely no surprising male friends he'd never heard of, telling me how cute I am or ruminating on our fond memories of each other.

[EndoftheRope]

I am really curious, FOTW, if this seems normal to you, to hide opposite-sex friendships from your spouse? Or to hide e-mail accounts from your spouse?

 

For what it's worth, he's always talked about many female co-workers and friends, and I have NEVER gotten upset or suspicious of him having female friends. In short, if I'd been suspicious and jealous to begin with, I could understand why he felt the need to be secret about innocent friendships. But I most definitely wasn't.

 

Additionally, he does e-mail other women, and the nature of his e-mails with them is different. They don't bother me.

[jmargel]

This isn't normal. Him lying to you in the past is going to make you wonder if he started another email address. Or worse yet what is going on at work?

 

Him being defensive is a tactic used to get the heat off of him. Instead of dealing w/ the real problem he'll try to make you feel bad by even looking.

 

Thing is, you don't trust him. Nothing he says right now is going to allivate that. The best thing you two can do is goto a marriage counselor. Truthfully he's acting like an ass and by the way you are descibing how he is reacting, I would think something is going on. Not sleeping around but at least an emotional involvment which to me is just as bad.

[A Fly onThe Wall]

Originally posted by EndoftheRope

I am really curious, FOTW, if this seems normal to you, to hide opposite-sex friendships from your spouse? Or to hide e-mail accounts from your spouse?

 

 

I am doing a little reading between the lines here.

 

I never said that it is normal to hide oppposite-sex friendships .. I will say maybe he is hiding her because of YOUR reactions.

 

when I was married I had a long time best friend that was female and because of my then wifes insecurities she accused me of having feelings for her. after going around with this for months I would hide the fact that we still talked because it was easier than to listen to my wifes insecurities and accusations that had no basis. I did chose to remove the friendship and chose my relationship over my best friend ( big mistake ). We had been friends almost 20 years and it crushed her

 

Needless to say we divorced and I have rebuilt the friendship I had with my friend, Although it truly has never been the same since.

 

I should have listened to my inner thoughts and not my insecure wife ..

[jmargel]

It's about respect and love. It's about putting your spouse's feelings #1. You were hiding this fact from your wife knowing it made her insecure? I'm sure she picked up on your lies, the only one you fooled was yourself. No wonder you are divorced now, I could only imagine what else went on.

 

Thing is if something you are doing is making your spouse uncomfortable then you should do whatever you need to make your spouse more comfortable and that it does NOT involve lying. You put your friend up on your priority list than your wife since your wife expressed a problem with you two emailing.

 

You need to look at things from your spouse's point of view, not just your own. Too many people do that and that's where the lines of communication start to dwindle.

[A Fly onThe Wall]

Originally posted by jmargel

It's about respect and love. It's about putting your spouse's feelings #1. You were hiding this fact from your wife knowing it made her insecure? I'm sure she picked up on your lies, the only one you fooled was yourself. No wonder you are divorced now, I could only imagine what else went on.

 

 

I'm divorced because she was bipolar.. Unmedicated.

 

I did remove the friendship and did whatever it took.. I was in marriage counseling for 3 years before I decided to divorce her.

 

 

I have never and would never cheat on a spouse .. How can you even go there with what little I have written ..

 

Get real

[jmargel]

after going around with this for months I would hide the fact that we still talked because it was easier than to listen to my wifes insecurities and accusations that had no basis.

 

I never said you cheated, but you continued to LIE to your wife. I'm sure your wife picked up on that, that you were lying. I'm assuming this is only one incident in a series that led to your divorce.

 

You divorced her only because she was bipolar? Was she put on medication and therapy when you were with her? Her being Bipoloar isn't her fault, it's a disease. Given the correct treatment things could have been alot better for the both of you.

[A Fly onThe Wall]

Originally posted by jmargel

You divorced her only because she was bipolar? Was she put on medication and therapy when you were with her? Her being Bipoloar isn't her fault, it's a disease. Given the correct treatment things could have been alot better for the both of you.

 

Not meaning to hijack the thread .. I'll interject this

 

She refused to take any medication and refused the idea that she was bipolar.. She was physically abusive towards me and after years of this abuse I took back the control of happiness in my life back by divorcing her.

 

There were other reasons as well but most of the issues came from her being bipolar

 

I understand it is a disease .. As a sober Alcoholic ( 18 years ) I understand the difference, and you are correct that if she had gotten the proper treatment things would've been better.. But she didn't.. and still hasn't to this day and we have been divorced over 4 years

[jmargel]

I'm sorry you were put through that. I hope she gets the help she needs.

 

As for the OP, something isn't right here. I still suggest marriage counseling.

[A Fly onThe Wall]

Originally posted by jmargel

I still suggest marriage counseling.

 

Thanks

 

I agree that marriage counseling could help them both iron out the issues

[EndoftheRope]

FOTW, thank you for explaining where you are coming from. Had I given him any previous reason to think I would get upset, insecure, or jealous about him having female friends, it would at least explain, if not justify, his hiding her (and previous female friends) and the e-mail accounts. But I can't think of anything I have done to make him think that. Not only have I DONE nothing, I have not even FELT any insecurity or jealousy about his female friends, so it's not even something he could be 'picking up on,' because it simply wasn't there.

 

In addition, this is not a long standing female friend. They'd worked together barely a year when the 'you're cute' e-mail was sent.

 

And finally, I didn't ask him to stop e-mailing her or stop being friends. I asked him why he hid the friendship and said she should e-mail him at our joint account. Not to beat a dead horse, but I have male friends & my account with their e-mails, was an open book to him, so they may as well have been e-mailing at our joint account. I didn't ask anything I wasn't akready doing myself.

[Owl]

Does he email her from your home computer at all? I'd seriously suggest putting in a keylogger to track the activity on your computer at home....and it should capture his login and password to whatever accounts he accesses from that computer.

 

If he's never shown any remorse for his actions, and has a history of finding a new way to hide what he's doing when confronted, then absolutely you should be concerned that he's still doing it.

 

I'd also suggest that you keep an eye on his cell phone usage. Most companies offer online invoices...you might consider taking a look at that and see if he's calling her as well.

 

As far as whether or not checking up on him because you're worried about your marriage is a 'right thing' or not...go take a look for my original post in the Infidelity section...it's a ways back, but take a look at what I've been through and you tell me if you should be concerned or not.

 

Last thing...take a look at the marriagebuilders website. There is a lot of good info there you might be able to use too.

[EndoftheRope]

I have a keylogger. That's how I know he checks his e-mail from home whenever I'm out or asleep, although he still pretends it doesn't exist when I'm around. The keylogger is also how I know he hasn't accessed any other e-mail account from home. I've also seen his work account twice this week, with no sign of anything from her. These things give me some hope, along with his other efforts at making changes, that maybe he is actually backing off from her.

 

On the other hand,

--he has not acknowledged that there's anything wrong;

--he expressed great concern for her feelings in March, something I see in the infidelity section here is a red flag. He felt so bad for her that everyone at work thinks she's a slut, and he thinks she's such a nice girl!

--he's given me access, but he's still very quick to delete things and empty the trash

--he has not told me he asked her to stop or discussed it with me at all (he gets angry if I try), and

--he does have that history, even if it's only once, of just setting up another account.

 

It just seems too suspicious to me that her e-mails slowed down SO dramatically the very day he shouted his password at me. In the more cynical part of my mind, I wonder if all the thoughtful gestures and the amazing turn-around in the bedroom aren't just to throw me off so I'll drop it and not think he might set up yet another e-mail account.

 

And then I wonder if I'm not making too big a deal of a bunch of stupid forwards. But I guess it largely comes back to the hiding, secrecy, and lies. And the fact that I would feel strange constantly sending "you're such a special friend" e-mails even to my male friends of 19 years' standing, and he's always very quick to send them back to her, whereas he rarely answers my e-mails.

 

I will go look for your original post. Do you have an approximate date for it?

[A Fly onThe Wall]

Originally posted by EndoftheRope

I have a keylogger. That's how I know he checks his e-mail from home whenever I'm out or asleep,

 

your smart ..

 

I hope you don't do more damage to your marriage than the e-mails have done though..

 

If he hasn't cheated on you .. Think of the distrust you have created with all this.

 

If you find nothing then you are the one that can't be trusted ..

 

You need to sit him down and lay down the law.. or get in front of good marriage counselor

[Owl]

Sorry FOTW, but seriously, his emails are FAR worse than her reading his email. Take a look at Marriagebuilders sometime...there should be NO privacy (secrecy) in a marriage. It just sets the stage for something like this to happen.

 

My wife is more than welcome to read/view ANYTHING I do online or anywhere else...I've got nothing to hide, and would have no issues with her doing exactly that. As a matter of fact, my wife knows ALL of my email and IM account logins and passwords...I don't believe she's ever checked them, but she's welcome to regardless. And I know all of hers...and after what we went through, I will freely admit that I DO check them periodically.

 

Trust is EARNED...not simply given. Would you trust a total stranger on the street with your wallet and house keys??? I don't think so...

 

And once trust is broken, it has to be RE-EARNED...which is even harder yet. That is something you should share with your husband, EOTR.

 

She hasn't damaged this relationship, he has. And he's not YET taken the steps to repair the damage. If she tells him that she's checking his email, and he still isn't willing to take the steps that HE needs to to reassure her, then she will have lost her only way of knowing the TRUTH, and being able to take the appropriate actions. Don't blame her for doing what she needs to in order to find out what's REALLY going on...especially if he's not telling it to her!

[A Fly onThe Wall]

Originally posted by Owl

Trust is EARNED...not simply given. Would you trust a total stranger on the street with your wallet and house keys??? I don't think so...

 

And once trust is broken, it has to be RE-EARNED...which is even harder yet. That is something you should share with your husband, EOTR.

 

 

Exactly my point .. that is why they need to deal with the issue in MC ..

 

She is hiding and doing secret stuff behind his back also , hurting the relationship.... It isn't a deal where it's not okay for him to do it but it is okay for me because you did it first ..

 

Once she had a feeling or evidence that he was a foker then she should've stopped and dealt with fixing the marriage .. Not continue to hide and have secrets.

 

Just my opinion...

[Owl]

I agree she should have taken action...but I also don't feel that she should give up her means of verifying the truth either.

 

And I completely agree on the MC...provided they seek an MC that is pro-marriage...there are too many of them out there that are not marriage counselors...they're divorce counselors.

[EndoftheRope]

Fly, I would like to a agree with you in theory. Everybody being upfront and honest is a nice idea.

 

But keep in mind the history here: I accidentally came upon him reading a well-established account one day, one he'd gone out of his way obviously to keep secret. Even on seeing it, I didn't think much, just expressed surprise. It was HIS REACTION that made me think something was wrong. I didn't get angry when I saw it, so why was he getting angry with me?

 

He told me closed it and I trusted him completely. I never gave it a second thought. Then a year ago April, the same thing happened. I came into the room, and there he was reading another e-mail account he'd once again kept very quiet about.

 

In both cases, I truly ACCIDENTALLY found out about the accounts. In both cases, he had extensive e-mails with women friends he never mentioned. At this point, I figure fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

 

Well, he's already fooled me twice, and I don't intend to wait for a third. So now for wanting to know the truth, *I'm* untrustworthy for not blindly believing someone whom I already knows lies and deceives me? I can't fix my marriage when I don't even know what's really going on, when I'm focusing on problems A, B, and C, totally unaware that there's a problem K(elly).

 

I'm not happy with what's happening now, but I also think there's a possibility it could have gotten worse, had I not confronted him and shone the light on this friendship or whatever it is, back in March. I think it's made him think twice about how his words to her look from the outside, and the March-June e-mails, even when he was unaware I could see them, were not as bad as the earlier ones. For that alone, I am glad I installed the keylogger.

[EndoftheRope]

And sorry, but I have to say it again: IF I find nothing? I think I already found something: my husband telling another woman she's CUTE, reminiscing about their fondest memories of each other for pete's sake, and trading e-mails 3x/week about what special friends they are. I know, I know, they're just those stupid forwards, but I'd really feel weird sending them to my male friends 3x/wk, or to be getting them from my male friends.

 

I found that my husband is HIDING a friendship with a woman-- huge red flag. I found out that he lies to me.

 

Anyway, honestly, my question wasn't about my actions. I'm comfortable with my actions in light of all that has gone before I resorted to that.

 

My original question was... given the history, what are the chances her e-mails just miraculously dropped the day he gave me access vs. what are the odds he's just set up another secret account? Is it possible he actually sees my point on this and backed off or am I being a gullible fool to even entertain that possibility?

 

I guess I'm asking the impossible, as no one could possibly know. But I am a normally logical and clear thinking person, now feeling like I've got two prosecuting attorneys in my head, each convincingly arguing two totally opposite views. I don't know what to think anymore.