what does 'being a man' look like?

[dumbass2]

Was that 9 hours that you spent with that girl on a 1st and only date?

[palmsand]

That was the third time I saw her, by far the longest we spent together. I wouldn't call any of times dates though. I'm sure she saw it as just friends hanging out.

[amaysngrace]

Why don't you take her out to dinner so it's more like a date?

[palmsand]

She did mention a restaurant she loves so i could take her out there just to see what happens. I think she would do just about anything with me.

 

By that time I kind of figured that the ship had sailed as far as us getting together.

[amaysngrace]

By that time I kind of figured that the ship had sailed as far as us getting together.

 

You need some more confidence. What's with the defeatist attitude?

[palmsand]

 

OP, I think part of your "problem" is that you just haven't dated a woman yet that you are strongly attracted to. Once you meet and date such a woman, there's a good chance that your behavior during the date will naturally include some degree of flirting and sexual innuendo. (Unless you're one of those types of guys that won't get out of your own way.) You won't WANT to talk about quantum physics or Dyson spheres with her for nine hours. Your "vibe" will naturally be more romantic. That's how people tend to be wired when they're around someone they have the hots for. Your delivery & execution may be awkward due to inexperience, but that's not a big deal. Your primal urges will yell at you to make a move, and hopefully with the right timing you'll do something like hold her hand...and then if she reacts favorably then gradually escalate.

 

 

I haven't dated much, but the last girl I was interested in was amazing. Too beautiful and smart for her own good. But things seemed really on/off with her. She gave me many openings but would seem uninterested when I tried to cease those opportunities. Things would cool down, then out of nowhere she would do or say something to make me think she was still interested.

 

Still talk to her but not hopeful of it going anywhere.

 

But yeah, I felt that instinctual urge to do something, to cease the moment and just go for it and ask her out or whatever. She would have an excuse which I had no way of knowing was real or not.

 

Funny thing is the one time we did go out to eat, she asked me and justified it with an excuse which I know was not true.

Edited December 29, 2016 by palmsand

[palmsand]

You need some more confidence. What's with the defeatist attitude?

 

 

 

I will ask her out to eat and I know she will say yes but I just doubt it will go anywhere based on what has already happened.

[amaysngrace]

I will ask her out to eat and I know she will say yes but I just doubt it will go anywhere based on what has already happened.

 

You should tell her that you're okay if all you two are to ever be is friends. See how she responds to that.

 

You never know....it may make her want to jump your bones.

[palmsand]

You should tell her that you're okay if all you two are to ever be is friends. See how she responds to that.

 

You never know....it may make her want to jump your bones.

 

 

Definately will do that. One thing I won't do is pass up an opportunity and regret it later.

[dichotomy]

I am a nice guy and a bit of a formal boy-scout at my core.

 

There is a fine line between cocky and arrogant. Between Teasing/challenging and insulting/mean. Between flirty/innuendo and crude sexual comments.

 

While in college - last year - I was able to muster (act out) some cocky and teasing/challenging behaviors and it worked very well. From time to time - I have been able to do this - its not in my true nature but I can do it as needed.

 

I have also watched guys in bars who were older and not so good looking do this with younger women with success. Sometimes they cross the line to demeaning and crude - and sometimes it still works, but I wont go that far.

 

I don't know a good way to describe it but there is a teasing/cocky/challenging aspect to certain conversation. Some have described it has being a bit "Han Solo".

 

A poor example might be - Her "You seem like a sweet guy" You (small bad smile on your face looking her in the eyes) "you're not the best judge of character are you?" ......

 

Another better example would be to rent or watch any of the movies with Humphrey Bogart and Lauren Bacall. The first movie they did together some of the dialog was improvised - and some of the emotions real as the actors fell in love in real life.

 

Here is one clip thats got a lot of challenging back and forth with a ton of sexual innuendo.

 

 

 

Most people like a little a playful challenge in games/life/relationships - just ride the line.

 

 

 

 

 

P.S.

 

I also train in MMA - and one of the challenges I have/had was to show some fierce attitude in sparing with classmates without being crazy/mean. Again a fine line to ride, but if your going to get in the ring - or defend yourself on the street - you got to act like you are going to win and are above your opponent.

Edited December 29, 2016 by dichotomy

[palmsand]

Wow, that was intense and really smooth at the same time! Thanks for the link.

 

 

Yesterday she mentioned that in Harry Potter, the character's wands are all different lengths. I played with that and asked who has the biggest wand, referring of course to the size of their ****. She got that and seemed to take it well but maybe too crass?

[NVO]

Just ask her out for a date and let us know. And call it a date too. Somewhere along the line of: 'I enjoy spending time with you, but what about I take you to (name of that restaurant) for a real date?'. I don't know, not a native speaker so propably there are better ways of saying this. But make it clear to her that you want to take her on a date. Worst thing that could happen is that she says she just wants to be friends. Well that's the exact same point you are at now, so nothing to lose.

 

Or else you will always keep second guessing about whether she likes you or not. Playing her friend but in the meantime you want to smash her. You are lying to yourself at that point.

 

And ofcourse she is going to date other guys and tell you all the ins and outs because you are such good friends. Think about that for a while.

 

I've been there myself way too many times. Thinking that if I just play it nice and behave that I can win her over. Spending months on that girl, getting her to like me, until one day some random guy comes along and takes her to bed within two days. And you are left baffled.

Edited December 29, 2016 by NVO

[elaine567]

You should tell her that you're okay if all you two are to ever be is friends. See how she responds to that.

Definately will do that. One thing I won't do is pass up an opportunity and regret it later.

 

DON'T put yourself into the friend zone. That is shooting yourself in the foot. If I guy told me he is happy to be friends, then it ends right there.

YOU need to be crystal clear that this is a date and that you are interested in her romantically.

ONCE she hears the word "friend", then that is what she will assume, ie you have NO interest in her romantically or you wish to have a fwb arrangement, neither is the impression you want to give.

[OnlyHonesty]

If there is no chemistry and some sexual tension, then you should look somewhere else, but as someone said, be nice! Don't be a jerk, just set yourself aside kindly.

 

Good luck out there!

 

Chemistry is not always something that just exists and neither is sexual tension. Both can be built. It's quite possible that the OP just has not mastered the art of building attraction and sexual tension with his personality type. Think of the last date you went on where you felt sexual tension and think about the bodylanguage and what was talked about. You may have found the guy initially attractive but if no one builds on that then it's not the same.

[SwordofFlame]

OP, the only advice I'll give is don't be afraid to ask for what you want. You can't expect most people to just know what you want.

[CobraX]

You should tell her that you're okay if all you two are to ever be is friends. See how she responds to that.

You never know....it may make her want to jump your bones.

 

This is bad advice. OP do not do this!

 

If you tell her that you are Ok being "just friends", then she will take that as a sign of disinterest. Of all the advice you have been given, please ignore this one.

 

Women respond to chemistry. Stop building friendship chemistry and start building romantic chemistry.

[palmsand]

Wanted to report back and say that this discussion has helped immensely.

 

I have been using OLD for a year and had one date. Using the new tactics mentioned here and a new profile pic I have gotton two dates the last two days and am talking to more women than I can handle!

 

Now that's the confidences boost I needed.

[normal person]

I have become convinced that part of my problem in getting dates comes down to this... not behaving in a way that is sexually attractive or 'masculine' enough. I have been given the "you're a nice guy but..." line and such, and I always end up as friends and nothing more.

 

I am a nice guy, probably too nice. If I can help someone out in a small way, I do. If someone just wants someone to listen, I listen. I'm just a human being like everyone else. Lately the women I meet(though not many) have been wonderful. As in intelligent, complex, etc. Could being a jerk make me more attractive?

 

No one (who's sensible, at least) says "be a jerk." But at the same time, you can't be too much of a pushover -- women desire strong, decisive, confident, men who will protect them and provide them with resources. Being "nice" is fine, as long as it's not at the expense of yourself, or the girl you're with. If you have $10 to feed the both of you, you give it to a homeless person and you go hungry, that's very "nice" of you, but it demonstrates an inability to prioritize yourself and the girl who's auditioning you, which is essential to survival. That's not masculinity, that's weakness. It's being taken advantage of by your own sympathies.

 

You can be nice, but it's for nothing if you can't also demonstrate that you're in control and able to protect and provide adequately.

 

 

The other big thing is just finding people in the first place. I will be the first to admit that I am a nerd and don't have many interests in common with most people.

 

"Common interests" are irrelevant. If you have similar ethics, values, goals, outlooks, personalities, and you have a physical attraction, that's the best you can hope for. I've never had a relationship hinge on a "common interest." People don't date because they both like football. It's arbitrary.

 

As for being a "nerd," you're assigning a negative value to it yourself and assuming that it's a bad thing, which makes you look bad. Assuming you're a nerd in the sense that you're smart and accomplished, great. Embrace it. That's a great, valuable, attractive, quality. If you're just a nerd in the more colloquial sense, ex: you like Star Wars and cartoons and video games and stuff marketed towards people who are more like grown up children -- yes, this will probably detract from the perception of your masculinity. The silver lining is that there is actually a subset of women who prefer men who like that stuff. The same kind of woman who wants her man to chubby so she doesn't feel insecure about herself.

 

If that's a basket you want to put some of your eggs in, go for it. Those aren't women I, or lots of men, would go for, personally. If you want to cast a wider net and perhaps appeal more to women who are of a different quality and have different priorities, I would eschew things that don't enhance your appeal to some of womens' basic biological needs, like to be protected and provided for. I'm well aware that this advice may not sit well with the "never change who you are" crowd, but I'm prepared to argue this point pretty vehemently, so if so, let's have at it.

 

As far as flirting, I think I at least got some practice with that tonight. Poking fun, maybe sexual euphemisms, etc. But I feel like I need to at least know the person at a certain level to pull that off and know where the line is before I cross it.

 

You are kowtowing to and acting in fear of some imagined "line." That makes you look less masculine. As a general rule, in my mind: the more you show worry, the less masculine you are. The masculine thing to do would be to not live in fear of saying the wrong thing, say what you actually felt like saying unapologetically, and accepting the outcome of it.

Edited December 30, 2016 by normal person

[palmsand]

I see the nerd thing as good and bad. I am nerd in that I am getting a degree in computer science and love programming, which will surely be a great career and support for a family. But the bad kind of nerd in that it seems like I would have more in common even with Star Wars or Harry Potter folks if I was into that.

 

 

I don't think I go to far in being nice. The last example was a girl I was interested in a class. One day she forgot the bubble form for a test and asked if I had an extra one. I did and then picked up a few extras in case she forgot again, which she did. Little things like that.

 

 

The jerk in me says, if you forgot the test form then you deserve to fail. But that's just cruel.

[Fhsjkfjrhsdh3646]

Being a man (behaviorwise) doesn't mean you have to be a jerk to her.

 

But don't put her on a pedestal, plenty of guys tell her how great she is, etc.

 

Refrain from over complimenting.

 

Don't insult her, but feel free to tease her or be playful.

 

For me, the teasing/playfulness is the most important part... If I'm vibing good with a girl and dish out some banter, I'm usually set. I think a lot of guys avoid teasing because they are scared they are going to upset their date.

 

 

edit: Of course be careful what you tease about. Don't tease her about her weight, or body image, etc. Keep it playful and make sure you smile & use proper body language so she knows you're just messing with her