Your thoughts on: When a woman cheats, there's something wrong with the relationship

December 27, 2016

I'm taking this from another thread in the Infidelity section, where poster @Karma24, stated the opinion that while men might be more predisposed to cheat (due to their DNA), it is not necessarily indicative of a failing existing relationship. However, because women are less inclined to cheat (due to their DNA), if they do so, that must mean something is very wrong with her existing relationship.

"In other words: something is so wrong with the chemistry in the relationship that a woman is willing to override her natural tendency to be faithful and cheat."

I am curious as to the opinions of LS on this topic...not whether men have genetic reasons to cheat and that kind of BS. But what cheating in a relationship means for a woman and is it really any different than what it means for a man...and ultimately the fate of the R.

December 27, 2016

Cheating doesn't happen in healthy relationships from either side.

Sex is sex. The problem with cheating is the lying about it. Lying and sneaking around does not happen in relationships where everyone is fulfilled emotionally.

There are many swinger couples who have sex with others and are open about it and talk about it on their relationship. No hiding, no lies and respect for boundariies. That's healthy

December 27, 2016

I'm taking this from another thread in the Infidelity section, where poster @Karma24, stated the opinion that while men might be more predisposed to cheat (due to their DNA), it is not necessarily indicative of a failing existing relationship. However, because women are less inclined to cheat (due to their DNA), if they do so, that must mean something is very wrong with her existing relationship.

"In other words: something is so wrong with the chemistry in the relationship that a woman is willing to override her natural tendency to be faithful and cheat."

I am curious as to the opinions of LS on this topic...not whether men have genetic reasons to cheat and that kind of BS. But what cheating in a relationship means for a woman and is it really any different than what it means for a man...and ultimately the fate of the R.

It's not a DNA issue, its a character, insight, conscience and empathy issue.

December 27, 2016

IME, I haven't noted women to be any more naturally trending to faithfulness than men.

In fact, I commend them for resisting the persistent onslaught of men seeking attention and sexual relations with them, while coupled or married, as much as they do.

While experiences have varied, I've had a few 'but he's such a good guy!' gushes where they're just not feeling it and casting around for something else. I don't pay it much mind anymore. Everything is transitory. If they blame it on their relationship being unfulfilling, OK, they do. Can't read their mind so next.

December 27, 2016

So...so far no one is in the camp of thinking: women cheating is more likely to mean something is wrong with the relationship? Versus men cheating?

I just thought it was an interesting theory. I don't know the statistics, but I do think there's some evidence that more women who cheat tend to leave their marriages than men. But then again, that doesn't mean the marriage was the CAUSE of the cheating, or that there was something inherently wrong with the "chemistry" of the relationship. Because I also know that women will then regret their choice years later.

But then again there is the "buyer's remorse" effect. You simply don't know the path you didn't take. And we often want what we don't have.

December 27, 2016

So...so far no one is in the camp of thinking: women cheating is more likely to mean something is wrong with the relationship? Versus men cheating?

I just thought it was an interesting theory. I don't know the statistics, but I do think there's some evidence that more women who cheat tend to leave their marriages than men. But then again, that doesn't mean the marriage was the CAUSE of the cheating, or that there was something inherently wrong with the "chemistry" of the relationship. Because I also know that women will then regret their choice years later.

But then again there is the "buyer's remorse" effect. You simply don't know the path you didn't take. And we often want what we don't have.

Yes, there is something wrong with the relationship no matter if it's the woman who cheats or the man. The problem is that they opt for immediate gratification for getting their needs met rather than addressing the issue with the partner head on, whether that means they simply say they are leaving, especially if they have attempted to work things out or doing that if they haven't already. The point is, you leave before you cheat if necessary. If there is something wrong with the relationship, it doesn't justify cheating!

Edited December 27, 2016 by Redhead14

December 27, 2016

When a woman cheats there is something wrong with the relationship and something wrong with the man... but same is true when a man cheats.

Unless you have a relationship between two perfect people (and last I checked that is exactly 2 more than the total number of perfect people in the world) in the perfect circumstance, you'll have a flawed relationship. That doesn't excuse cheating, but at the same time it doesn't excuse trying to constantly work at making the relationship less flawed, and the people in it less flawed.

But I will say this and it may relate to why this theory exists. Women tend to be a whole lot better at "rationalizing" cheating then men. Most men who cheat when asked about it, will admit that they know they are doing something bad. I've seen some women go to some crazy extents of trying to prove how their cheating isn't real cheating or is justified.

December 27, 2016

But I will say this and it may relate to why this theory exists. Women tend to be a whole lot better at "rationalizing" cheating then men. Most men who cheat when asked about it, will admit that they know they are doing something bad. I've seen some women go to some crazy extents of trying to prove how their cheating isn't real cheating or is justified.

Funny that you say this. I had a male poster freak out on me once when I said that very thing - that when I cheated I was selfish and entitled and plain wrong. He claimed that I hadn't discovered my "why" and if I was just this selfish, thoughtless, sex-driven woman, then my husband should run the other direction. He wanted that "reason."

December 27, 2016

Funny that you say this. I had a male poster freak out on me once when I said that very thing - that when I cheated I was selfish and entitled and plain wrong. He claimed that I hadn't discovered my "why" and if I was just this selfish, thoughtless, sex-driven woman, then my husband should run the other direction. He wanted that "reason."

Well, this is my take as to why that is. There is a double-edged sword when it comes to gender relations.

On the one side, women are viewed as the fairer gender. The whole "girls are sugar and spice and everything nice while boys are snips and snails". The better attributes of human nature just tend to be ascribed to (and put upon) your gender a lot more than ours. And so when it comes to your gender's dealings w our gender, you often are given the benefit of the doubt whenever there is friction. If we don't call back after a date, we are jerks. If you don't call you back after a date, we were the lame ones who couldn't inspire chemistry. If we are dragging our feet 6 months into a relationship, we are just using her and wasting her time. If you are dragging your feet 6 months in, well maybe you have a good reason to be doing so!

On the other side to this, when your gender DOES screw up and you show that you are just as human as we are, woe betide you. You had all these virtuous things ascribed to you so you really disappointed us. When men cheat, it's 'eh what did you expect, boys will be boys', whereas when women cheat, it's 'take her out back and stone her!'.

There is also the fact that men can be cuckolded and tricked into raising another man's offspring in ways that a woman cannot, which makes women's cheating 'more damaging' than men's ….

Edited December 27, 2016 by Imajerk17

December 27, 2016

I think the point you're trying to make is that men are capable of "compartmentalizing" sex - while women need an emotional need/connection to be open to having sex with someone other than their SO.

And, I tend to agree with you. When I was into recent dude - even though we hadn't even kissed yet, I wasn't open to having sex with any guy and trust me, I had/have guys I could do it with. I really felt I was connecting with him emotionally - which is why I'm really hurting. I had a friend tell me I needed to turn up our "physical" contact and I told them that I think he wasn't after that and that us chatting a lot was a good thing that I was enjoying (getting to know him and hoping he was wanting to know about me too).

I mean, ever hear some guys say "it was just sex"...and, yes, I believe some men are capable of just having sex and it not meaning a thing with the woman they were doing it with. I mean look at prostitutes, gosh darn, lots of them just look and some men have no issue with getting with that.

But yea, when you look at situations with women cheating - it usually involves lack of "attention" or "affection" from her SO - and, then she starts what we call an "emotional" affair with some guy and before you know it, it may progress into the actual act of sex.

I believe that while women enjoy sex - for the most part, sex is a means to an end. In other words, she has to want the guy to be able to have sex with him.

I was watching this "Web of Lies" show on ID, and this older, widowed woman was considering S&M for some guy she met online - whom she never ever met in person, simply cuz she was lonely, he was giving her attention and a condition of that attention continuing is her getting into S&M, cuz that was his "thing".

December 27, 2016

So...so far no one is in the camp of thinking: women cheating is more likely to mean something is wrong with the relationship? Versus men cheating?

I just thought it was an interesting theory. I don't know the statistics, but I do think there's some evidence that more women who cheat tend to leave their marriages than men. But then again, that doesn't mean the marriage was the CAUSE of the cheating, or that there was something inherently wrong with the "chemistry" of the relationship. Because I also know that women will then regret their choice years later.

But then again there is the "buyer's remorse" effect. You simply don't know the path you didn't take. And we often want what we don't have.

It's not as much the relationship as it is the circumstances around it. Women tend to be the primary caregiver of the marriage, so it's harder for her to accept that she has done something to damage it. In many cases it's easier to run instead of facing the damage they have created....Thus the something is wrong thoery.

People in heathy relationship cheat, people in unhealthy relationship don't cheat, and vice versa.why? Because we are all human and capable of making poor choices.

December 27, 2016

However, because women are less inclined to cheat (due to their DNA), if they do so, that must mean something is very wrong with her existing relationship.

As others have said, what's wrong with the relationship is that 50% of the participants are cheating. Don't think the conditions are gender specific or biased...

Mr. Lucky

December 27, 2016

Also as far as stats go, women are more likely to leave but do so to be with AP...The kicker it upwards of 70% attempt to return to the marriage

December 27, 2016

On the one side, women are viewed as the fairer gender. The whole "girls are sugar and spice and everything nice while boys are snips and snails". The better attributes of human nature just tend to be ascribed to (and put upon) your gender a lot more than ours. And so when it comes to your gender's dealings w our gender, you often are given the benefit of the doubt whenever there is friction. If we don't call back after a date, we are jerks. If you don't call you back after a date, we were the lame ones who couldn't inspire chemistry. If we are dragging our feet 6 months into a relationship, we are just using her and wasting her time. If you are dragging your feet 6 months in, well maybe you have a good reason to be doing so!

On the other side to this, when your gender DOES screw up and you show that you are just as human as we are, woe betide you. You had all these virtuous things ascribed to you so you really disappointed us. When men cheat, it's 'eh what did you expect, boys will be boys', whereas when women cheat, it's 'take her out back and stone her!'.

There is also the fact that men can be cuckolded and tricked into raising another man's offspring in ways that a woman cannot, which makes women's cheating 'more damaging' than men's ….

Yes and none of the above is true. I can guarantee you that neither gender is sugar and spice. Women are a lot better at not getting caught.

December 28, 2016

It's a character issue no matter which gender cheats.

December 28, 2016

It's a character issue no matter which gender cheats. No matter what her excuse is the result is still the same which is that I can no longer trust and therefore we have no relationship because trust is a load bearing column and when that is knocked down things collapse.

December 28, 2016

I'm taking this from another thread in the Infidelity section, where poster @Karma24, stated the opinion that while men might be more predisposed to cheat (due to their DNA), it is not necessarily indicative of a failing existing relationship. However, because women are less inclined to cheat (due to their DNA), if they do so, that must mean something is very wrong with her existing relationship.

"In other words: something is so wrong with the chemistry in the relationship that a woman is willing to override her natural tendency to be faithful and cheat."

I am curious as to the opinions of LS on this topic...not whether men have genetic reasons to cheat and that kind of BS. But what cheating in a relationship means for a woman and is it really any different than what it means for a man...and ultimately the fate of the R.

Has nothing to do with DNA, tons of men don't cheat and there are tons of women who do cheat. Everybody makes choices in life, there's no gun held to the head making someone cheat.

Someone who does cheat has their own reasons and most of times it has nothing to do with their partner.

December 28, 2016

In my life, when a woman cheats, she's really just looking for a replacement for her present man and is too insecure to just do it and then find a new man, which I don't respect (I'm a woman). However, I do have one friend who is cheating under egregious circumstances, but she is a bona fide mental case. Normal women are usually moving on if they cheat, OR getting retaliation for the man cheating first.

December 28, 2016

So...so far no one is in the camp of thinking: women cheating is more likely to mean something is wrong with the relationship? Versus men cheating?

I just thought it was an interesting theory. I don't know the statistics, but I do think there's some evidence that more women who cheat tend to leave their marriages than men. But then again, that doesn't mean the marriage was the CAUSE of the cheating, or that there was something inherently wrong with the "chemistry" of the relationship. Because I also know that women will then regret their choice years later.

But then again there is the "buyer's remorse" effect. You simply don't know the path you didn't take. And we often want what we don't have.

Maybe. Are we talking "obviously" dysfunctional relationships--e.g., physical or emotional abuse, one partner not pulling their weight? Or are we talking about "good" marriages where both partners are pulling their weight and treating each other well until one ends up straying.

Going by what I've seen of my friends and on here at least, I think both men AND women in "good" marriages cheat due to something missing in their primary relationship that they find in their AP--usually an intense spark. I think in ALL cases it is a sign of bad boundaries so I am not justifying that.

That said, I think one big difference between the genders is that men are much more able to compartmentalize sex versus love than women are. So maybe women in affairs often end up falling in love w their AP more than men do which means a woman's affair would lead to the end of the primary relationship. It's just harder for her to break away from her AP.

[i think another big difference between the genders is that women's attraction mechanisms are much more complex than men's. You tend to doubt and analyze yourselves a lot more than we do. Our gender's reasons for cheating are no better nor worse than your gender's. But I do think they are simpler, and so maybe our gender has an easier time accepting WHY we did it. Maybe this enables us to move on from our own cheating faster than women can from theirs, which means the marriage may be more likely to be saved. When women stray on a "good" partner, they seem to end up trying to unwind why they did what they did and going to therapy and concluding that it is about these deep-seated issues about themselves and e.g., their issues w their dad growing up or an unhealthy need for validation. Whereas when men cheat, while we feel intense guilt too, we also just tend to accept that it was because we were physically aroused and we were too weak to withstand the temptation. So soul-searching the past isn't as necessary. That was a bit of an aside, but I notice this A LOT on this forum.]

Edited December 28, 2016 by Imajerk17

December 28, 2016

Lots of good thoughts. I'm thinking of several responders, especially Gloria, DKT, and Imajerk here, in this roundup. Just to clarify, I am generally thinking about two people in a seemingly good marriage...not a relationship with glaring problems.

So I think we need to be careful about cause and effect, or specifically, naming a "problem with the relationship" as the cause. We all know men and women can both cheat, in fairly equal amounts. Gloria talked about how women are more likely to become emotionally involved with their sexual partners. There are exceptions to every rule, but it is generally true. I believe Imajerk mentioned it too - men can compartmentalize sex more than women. Yes, men can fall in love with their APs, and women can use men for sex. But I am concerned here more with the majority. More often than not, women get emotionally involved with their sexual partners. That can lead to the demise of the primary relationship.

The point then would be...that doesn't mean the primary relationship wasn't bad to begin with. There is the initial stepping out, the poor boundaries, that would allow either sex to have the affair. And perhaps there are "problems" (like any relationship has). But then what happens afterwards with a woman is different than with a man.

The woman develops strong feelings and emotional attachments; as DKT and Imajerk mentioned, she then must rationalize those feelings and begins to believe that "something must be wrong" with her marriage or committed relationship, otherwise she could never have felt this way about another man (even though it's really base chemistry); she generally believes herself to be a "good person", which adds to this need for justification; and away she goes.

A man may or may not develop emotional attachments; if he does, he generally doesn't analyze them to death once the relationship ends and doesn't assume it "means something" about his M; and if he does not develop those feelings, it's simple - "It didn't mean anything, honey."

So this would actually change things around and support a different theory. It's not that a woman's affair represents an existing fundamental problem in the relationship; it CAUSES one.

I would be curious as to the stats on this - how many women's affairs would fall into the first theory, and how many into the second. Pretty hard to determine, as this would be self-reported and COMPLETELY biased.

December 28, 2016

What's a "good" marriage? What's a "bad" marriage? I think it's near impossible to answer the question because no one has settled on an objective definition. Furthermore, I believe people say they're in a "good" marriage because admitting to being in a "bad" marriage would mean having to own responsibiliy for their own dissatisfaction. If you give a half-assed effort or fail to communicate what you do not like, then you should expect a less than fulfilling relationship.

December 28, 2016

What's a "good" marriage? What's a "bad" marriage? I think it's near impossible to answer the question because no one has settled on an objective definition. Furthermore, I believe people say they're in a "good" marriage because admitting to being in a "bad" marriage would mean having to own responsibiliy for their own dissatisfaction. If you give a half-assed effort or fail to communicate what you do not like, then you should expect a less than fulfilling relationship.

Well, I don't think it's fair to call a marriage bad when you (general you) are giving it a half-assed effort.

I'm referring to situations most people would consider "bad" - abuse; serial infidelity; ongoing addiction where a person refuses help; etc.

But to call something "bad" because one or both participants just fail to show? I do think that's a cop-out.

December 28, 2016

Well, I don't think it's fair to call a marriage bad when you (general you) are giving it a half-assed effort.

I'm referring to situations most people would consider "bad" - abuse; serial infidelity; ongoing addiction where a person refuses help; etc.

But to call something "bad" because one or both participants just fail to show? I do think that's a cop-out.

I agree with you. However, the problem is that marital satisfaction is subjective. But if we use only objective factors, as perceived by a third party not privy to what occurs behind "closed doors," then it is hard to understand why people, who appear to be in "good" relationships, cheat.

I saw a stat from the UK that 87 percent of couples surveyed reported to be happily married but 42 percent of marriages end in divorce. Did the surveyors just happen to ask the wrong people or are roughly 29 percent of the people not answering honestly?

But I understand the self-report/confirmation bias very well. That's why I put little stock in infidelity/marital satisfaction stastistics. Those stats all rely on people being honest with themselves, and we know that people tend to report what they would like to see themselves as rather than what they actually are.

So back to your original question, does the act of infidelity have any significance in respect to gender-based reasons? I don't think so. I think women tend to, in general, have more emotional intelligence/awareness compared to men. But women, from an evolutionary perspective, have much more to lose by staying in a relationship that lacks an emotional connection. Males have to compete for mating rights like all animals and are more likely to stay in less than fulfilling relationships rather than risk getting metaphorically gored by another bull over another female. But as for why both genders cheat? It usually comes down to opportunity.

Edited to add: The most successful marriages are not about love but about commitment, i.e. George and Martha Washington. Only recently people began marrying primarily for love. Love is fickle and fleeting; reliance and sharing a common goal(s) is binding.

Edited December 28, 2016 by OneLov

December 28, 2016

The woman develops strong feelings and emotional attachments; as DKT and Imajerk mentioned, she then must rationalize those feelings and begins to believe that "something must be wrong" with her marriage or committed relationship, otherwise she could never have felt this way about another man (even though it's really base chemistry); she generally believes herself to be a "good person", which adds to this need for justification; and away she goes.

A man may or may not develop emotional attachments; if he does, he generally doesn't analyze them to death once the relationship ends and doesn't assume it "means something" about his M; and if he does not develop those feelings, it's simple - "It didn't mean anything, honey."

So this would actually change things around and support a different theory. It's not that a woman's affair represents an existing fundamental problem in the relationship; it CAUSES one.

Yes, very nicely put on what I was trying to say but perhaps was talking around.

A man on the one hand has a seemingly fine marriage with a loving wife. He finds himself feeling attraction to his physically stunning new coworker w curves in all the right places who flirts with him and him alone. Even if he gives into his attraction, he doesn't necessarily think there is anything wrong with his marriage, nor does he conclude that he has deep-seated issues he needs to work out or that he needs to find himself or whatever. Don't get me wrong, he knows he was weak to give in and he likely still feels intense guilt, but he gets that he is a guy and this is how attraction works for him.

A woman on the other hand has a seemingly fine marriage with a devoted husband. She finds herself feeling attraction to her coworker whom she talks to all the time. He might not even be as conventionally good-looking as her husband. What is it about him that draws her in? What's wrong with herself, she wonders? What's wrong with her marriage? Anyway, unlike the man in the above paragraph, she DOES tend to think there is something wrong with her marriage. Or maybe she concludes that she DOES have deep-seated issues that she needs to work out or that she needs time to "go find herself" or whatever.

It's this extra spinning and unwinding and backwards rationalization that probably helps leads to the demise of the marriage when women cheat. This as well as women getting more emotionally involved w their APs and having a tougher time breaking away.

That's my theory anyway.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Imajerk17

December 29, 2016

I was able to bed more than one married women, by offering oral sex. The only thing wrong with their marriage, was that they were married in their 30's and 40's and their husband refused to go south, and that was something they wanted to experience at least once in their life.

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