"Why I am not marriage material" - Is there such a thing?

December 20, 2016

This is an interesting write-up of a successful woman, independent, divorced, daughter an early 20's adult.

Married late teens, divorced at 30 and resigned herself in never marrying again for the stated reasons..but is this just a fluff piece that makes excuses for her commitment phobia or legitimate reasons for not marrying again?

I had a discussion with a female friend of mine where she said she said that there is no such thing as NOT being marriage material. She says she keeps hearing this thrown around a lot and she doesn't think this is true and perhaps this is a reason why people make excuses for their short term relationships like this author had claimed that at the very most...that a short term boyfriend (few years) is the most companionship she would EVER plan on getting.

This checklist seems to be that of a Millennial way of thinking yes?

She expresses that marriage will eventually deteriorate. That NOTHING is "death do us part" whatsoever.

As Agent Smith would say in The Matrix...it IS inevitable. Sounds defeatist though, does it not?

Why I'll Never Get Married Again - Motto

1. I don’t want children (or more children)

She has one adult child, sure, that's enough, but...there's a lot of married couples that don't want children nor want more of them....so I hardly see this as a valid excuse to not ever marry again, yes?

2. The institution of marriage seems outdated to me

To HER, yes, of course, there is...surprisingly...people still marrying today. But would you concur, as a general consensus that marriage is "outdated" for 2016/17 and its not recommended that anyone EVER marry?

I mean, why get married when the rest of the USA has a divorce rate that's an alarming increase.

3. I don’t want to care about your decisions

AH...this is where selfishness comes in. Just reading #3 aloud makes me cringe. "Don't want to care about your decisions". Sounds almost like, "I don't want to care about YOU."

4. I highly value my independence

This makes sense, it's pretty self-explanatory if you're a self-proclaimed independent woman.

5. I’m a realist

Kind of self-explanatory. But she expressed that people change over time, and when that change occurs...the marriage may inevitably deteriorate.

Finally...

6. I’m happy (happiest?) when I’m single

I love companionship, but I’ve also come to realize how happy I am when I’m single. Many people marry because they’re scared of the prospect of being alone. But I’ve accumulated evidence of my levels of happiness with and without a partner.

Turns out, I’m pretty darn happy with both, but when a relationship starts to deteriorate, I get very unhappy. When I’m single, I might occasionally yearn for companionship, but my happiness levels are off the charts.

Social narratives tell us that marriage is just the thing you do when you become responsible and want to “settle down.” We’re instilled with the fear of being alone and dying alone, but marriage is certainly not a guarantee against this. For those of us who are fiercely independent and have our own established lives, there’s no reason that marriage should be considered the only or best choice.

For some people it may be, but for the rest of us, we’ll take our alone time and live happily ever after.

Let me refer to the bolded..."Happy with and without a partner"

This is where she contradicts herself I think. The brunt of her entire article is founded on being happy while being alone, but may threw in something where she is also happy WITH a partner? I don't get it.

"Pretty darned happy with both"? Again, don't get it. She just opened up an opportunity to discuss, "Well, if you're happy with BOTH, then why write an article that is suppose to focus on being happy WITHOUT a partner?

Also, I would claim that we (the general single populace) are instilled with this so-called "fear of being alone" as the motivating factor to marry. That's somehow a flawed theory, is it not?

I mean, I'm sure it DOES happen. But I guess the "fiercely" independent person may believe in this theory.

Though I am theorizing, she may have been emotionally bankrupt or jaded when she wrote this. I'm not sure what motivated her to do so, perhaps it's been preying on her mind?

December 20, 2016

It's a fluff piece. Still, # 3 and #6 tell me she's right. She's not marriage material. Which is fine. Not everyone is meant for marriage.

December 20, 2016

I can't think of a single one of the good experiences in my life that hasn't been enhanced by having a partner to share it with. Everyone is marriage or at least relationship material but, as some of the bullet points indicate, not all are willing to do the work.

Her loss...

Mr. Lucky

December 20, 2016

If a person thinks they're not marriage material, then they aren't. They don't need approval.

December 20, 2016

She doesn't need an excuse or a reason others think is 'good enough' to not want to get married. Since when was marriage the default choice that someone is assumed to make?

Surely people should focus more on why they DO want to get married, if they do, rather than scrutinising others who do not want to get married. We are all born single, marriage isn't something that is sleepwalked into, it's a huge decision that takes time, money and effort to make happen.

Maybe there'd be fewer failed marriages if more people felt able to openly say 'no thanks, marriage isn't for me' rather than going along with it due to external pressures.

December 20, 2016

Does anyone start off as marriage material? Thought that was something we become over the marriage. ... dangit! I knew I was doing something wrong! A well... too late now.

December 20, 2016

Holy crap! This is me! I don't mean I wrote the article, but this describes me very, very well. It's also kind of spooky that my ex-husband and I literally talked about this yesterday!

For our region, it was expected that we get married, buy a house, have children, buy a bigger, nicer house and take vacations. I realize people in big cities may never buy a house

But neither of us were prepared to be married or were marriage material. I was always able to buy an average amount of clothes and sundries as a single. He was always able to purchase a few videotapes (vcr) each month and go to as many movies and eat out whenever he wanted.

We weren't equipped to sacrifice and cut back on those fun expenses. If our last $25 for the month was in his account, he had no hesitation about going to Blockbuster and getting a pile of movies, then stopping for HIS supper on the way home. As far as he was concerned, I could eat spaghettios but he had his.

Both our cooking skills were limited. His family believed that cooking and cleaning were women's work. My mother believed it was easier NOT to deal with the mess and the slowdown of time teaching children how to cook.

So, I/we had no concept of meal planning and grocery lists. We spent way too much money on food when we did shop.

Neither of us were prepared for the expenses of life in general. Car insurance, taxes, titles, maintenance, homeowners insurance, taxes, problems that happen in your first, cheap house. "Hey - the $200 bill for heat is due and it is the middle of winter. You just spent $35 on going to a movie and going to a restaurant for supper? Wise choice, ex-husband, wise choice."

So, knowledge-wise, skill set wise and personality-wise (sacrifice) we weren't prepared at all to be married.

Marriage (and children) require sacrifice. Whether it be time, money, sleep, wants or needs. Do you really think Millenials have been prepared to give that much of themselves? When I was in high school, it was expected that you have a minimum wage job year round. Now, for my socio-economic status it is rare that kids are required to have even a summer job. Then parents are surprised when after college, their twenty something bounces back home and doesn't leave for YEARS. My neighborhood is full of basements being occupied by single twenty somethings, not paying rent and helping themselves to the refrigerator and adding things to the grocery list.

I'm in that generation where men can go either way. They can either be hands on with kids and wife, they can cook and clean and only need to be nagged a little about doing chores they can't pawn off on the kids. OR They can expect the woman to do all cooking, cleaning, child related care and transportation, all errands and handle scheduling repairs and appointments. In both cases, the woman is also working a full time job outside of the home.

I've seen the unequal hobby time way too often. Let's use football for an example. I was working full time and maintaining a house. My boyfriend was a huge football fan. On Friday nights he went to the local high school game. He could be gone from 600-Midnight. Saturdays he had a season pass to his favorite college team. He and his buddies could leave early to go tailgating. There was a couple hour drive, so he could be gone all day or even spend the night. He'd come home Sunday and watch several games, usually all afternoon and into the evening. Then there was Monday night football.

I've used football as an example, but I've seen a lot of husbands and boyfriends who feel a sense of entitlement when it comes to how they spend their free time. I don't spend that kind of time and money on my hobbies now and I'm retired. And since I hate sports ('cept the Red Sox), I'm not interested in "doing this together". If I spent four hours at a game so we could be together, doesn't that mean he should spend four hours holding my purse while we shop?

I'm stopping here for now, but I want to come back and explain why I don't think the author of the article is selfish in a bit.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Lady2163

December 20, 2016

Okay, PART II.

I'm around 50 and eight years ago I started a business that I built from the ground up out of my garage. For six years I had two vacations. One for 7 days and one for five days. 12 days off in six years. As I rounded the corner to my house coming home from the airport from one of those vacations, a client was pulling in my driveway ahead of me. So, I didn't even get a chance to unload the car before I was back to work.

I sacrificed a LOT to get where I am. Vacations, holidays, creature comforts, material wants and needs. A couple years ago I looked at my checking account at the end of the month and I had $2000. 3-4 months later I had $3000. So, I was obviously living under my means (this was the primary account I used for expenses only, so it had a monthly deposit). Now, I struggled what to do with that money. Shopping trip for frivolous things? Shopping trip for household wants or needs? In the end I used it to paint a couple rooms and have some nice built in shelves put in and a new garage door opener. I knew I was selling my house eventually and these helped with resale.

I just bought a 4000 square foot house. It has four bedrooms, an office and the basement is finished and could easily be one or two more bedrooms. I will have it paid off in less than ten years. I am single, with no kids. I don't need all the room. I actually have TWO totally empty rooms in the house.

If I meet a man and he wants to live together in this house, he hasn't sacrificed with me to get here. If he has children he wants to stay with us, what are the limits I should have to either give up or adjust to? I'm not saying he hasn't sacrificed and had challenges, but if he goes from a 1000 square foot apartment to here, that's a helluva step up in his life. At what point is it selfish to limit the amount of giving you're going to do for someone?

My neighborhood is filled with doctors, lawyers, accountants and a few tech geniuses. So, they make good money, not Bill Gates money, but much better than average. It's a bit tough for me to find someone in my same financial state, because to be frank, if some man makes what is comparable to me, he can afford someone better looking and younger than I am.

Damn. I have to leave.

But I read the original article and the thought crossed my mind....what do men or what would a man feel that he is contributing to a relationship with the author or with me? Are there really men out there who pull their fair share in household chores and assignments? Is there really someone who would bring me a cup of coffee in the morning without being asked or told? Is there someone who is able to work as a team and partnership and honestly celebrate couple hood together and equally?

Haven't found that yet.

December 20, 2016

Marriage isn't for everyone, it doesn't HAVE to be for everyone. We all choose our on paths. As to whether her reasons are valid, perhaps for her they are, for me they aren't.

This checklist seems to be that of a Millennial way of thinking yes?

She expresses that marriage will eventually deteriorate. That NOTHING is "death do us part" whatsoever.

NOTHING in life is stagnate. Everything changes. Now, do you choose to adapt or part ways? That is a CHOICE.

1. I don’t want children (or more children)

Hey same here! I don't want any children. Neither does my husband. That is a core subject that should be agreed upon before tying the knot. Doesn't mean you aren't marriage material though.

2. The institution of marriage seems outdated to me

I am not sure what she means by this. The idea of a life long partnership is outdated? Heck, I have been with the same company for 15 years (just about all of my adult working life) - some would say that is out dated.

3. I don’t want to care about your decisions

Yikes - I guess not only is she not marriage material, but she isn't serious / deep relationship material.

4. I highly value my independence

Me too! I was raised fiercely independent. Can't say I ever felt like my husband has encroached on that.

5. I’m a realist

Okay, you could take this to mean that things deteriorate, or acknowledge that things could be improved. Not sure what she means by this.

6. I’m happy (happiest?) when I’m single

Well perhaps she is! I love solitude, I love my Independence. I have work and hobbies which keep me away from home an average of 14 hours a day. But I also love having a partner in life.

I never felt social pressures to get married. My mom has been single most of my adult life, and my dad re-married 25 years ago and has been happier than a clam in high tide with his wife.

My parents were hippies - pushed to follow your heart, hopes and dreams, not social norms. I didn't get married to please any one (we got married after 14(!!!) years together!). I got married because I love him and wanted to make a statement about my commitment. Our engagement lasted longer than many marriages, and I optimistic we will share many more years together.

December 20, 2016

So, knowledge-wise, skill set wise and personality-wise (sacrifice) we weren't prepared at all to be married.

Well, from what you described I agree! I am lucky in that all of those domestic skills were installed in me by a young age. I knew how to cook, how to meal plan, how to grocery shop.

The Mr. and I were both broke college kids when we met. We pooled and shared our funds from the start. Not only was that a sacrifice, but it was also an asset. Its easier to shop for two, housing is cheaper for two. So what some see as "sacrifice" I see as added value. We are better and stronger together than apart. Till this day (unless lunch while at work) - we check to see if the other needs to eat before feeding ourselves. Its always been second nature.

Is there really someone who would bring me a cup of coffee in the morning without being asked or told?

Yes! Last week we stayed out way too late on a "school night" - he knew I would have an early morning the next day. Woke up to a love note in the bathroom, about how there was an iced coffee waiting for me in the frig, oh a baggie of ice in the freezer - ready to be added. The note is still out on my dresser - I swoon every time I see it

Otherwise, who ever gets up first makes a big ol' pot of coffee on the weekends

December 20, 2016

This is also generational to some extent but not always.

For me, marriage was just what you did. I was a traditional husband for the most part, great dad, wife never had to work.

I wanted kids and at the time you got married to have them. But even if you did not want kids marriage is a commitment to the other person.

I don't know if you have to do it any more or not, but traditionally marriage is/was an institution in which to create a family and children.

And for lady, just so you know, all of my women were always treated like queens. So when time permits it is breakfast in bed, put your feet up and chill.

Frankly, I am a better cook than most women as well, no offense ladies. Just stating facts.

So this woman in the article, you know good for her is she is happy. I think that we should all be responsible for our happiness, it is just all about how you get there.

Would I ever get married again, no way in hell.

But I will say this, happiness is grandchildren. Nothing better. But you have to go through a lot to get there.

December 20, 2016

Of course there are people that aren't marriage material. Just like there are terrible parents there are also terrible partners. Kudos to the woman writing the article and some of the posters here for recognizing it and not subjecting some poor person to have to be with them!

December 20, 2016

But I read the original article and the thought crossed my mind....what do men or what would a man feel that he is contributing to a relationship with the author or with me? Are there really men out there who pull their fair share in household chores and assignments? Is there really someone who would bring me a cup of coffee in the morning without being asked or told? Is there someone who is able to work as a team and partnership and honestly celebrate couple hood together and equally?

Haven't found that yet.

Sounds like you're more interested in a good roommate that has the same values in housekeeping that you do.

I am also in my early 50s so I grew up between the generation where there were clearly differentiated gender roles and the generation where men are expected to think, feel and act like women.

To my mother's generation a man that was husband and father material was employed, didn't cause too much problems when he was drunk, didn't beat his wife or kids, was discrete with his affairs and didn't gamble away the family finances. A man that did housework or looked after the kids AT ALL was seen as a blessing if not an oddity.

To that generation, a woman was marriage material if she wasn't a harlot and wasnt a castrating shrew. A man considered himself fortunate is she was somewhat responsible with money and wasn't a drunk or a zombie on the antidepressants and sleeping pills of the day.

Men of those days were expected to provide pretty much all of the income, all of the household repairs, all of the outside work including all ladder work on the roof and eaves trough, all of the car maintenance and repairs, fight off all of the intruders and muggers and all of the discipline of the children.

Women were expected to bear, and nuture the children, plan and prepare meals, take kids to doctors appointments, keep the house sanitary and keep the husband's tank drained enough that he wasn't out on the street proliferating prostitution, molesting minor girls or overtly coming on to other men's wives.

People that fulfilled those roles and tasks were considered good spouses.

What has changed today is the gender roles have become very blurred if not indestinguishable and people's expectations of what makes a good spouse has skyrocketed.

Our mothers and grandmothers would have laughed if some had wondered if a man would do half the housework and bring his wife coffee in the morning.

They were probably thrilled if he didn't come home drunk, slap them and then barf on the floor the night before.

And they probably wouldn't have even thought of a Felix Unger type guy a "real man" in the first place.

By today's standards, very few of our forefathers and foremothers were marriage material at all.

And many if the single men and women of today would have been considered the least bit attractive or desirable as a spouse to our grandparents.

December 20, 2016

And as just an interesting example of generation gaps, when my kids were babies, my mother in law was very uncomfortable with me changing the kid's diapers. She would literally try to take them out of my hands and tell me to go something else.

She would then get on my wife for "letting" me handle and undress the babies.

December 20, 2016

Sounds like you're more interested in a good roommate that has the same values in housekeeping that you do.

I am also in my early 50s so I grew up between the generation where there were clearly differentiated gender roles and the generation where men are expected to think, feel and act like women.

To my mother's generation a man that was husband and father material was employed, didn't cause too much problems when he was drunk, didn't beat his wife or kids, was discrete with his affairs and didn't gamble away the family finances. A man that did housework or looked after the kids AT ALL was seen as a blessing if not an oddity.

To that generation, a woman was marriage material if she wasn't a harlot and wasnt a castrating shrew. A man considered himself fortunate is she was somewhat responsible with money and wasn't a drunk or a zombie on the antidepressants and sleeping pills of the day.

Men of those days were expected to provide pretty much all of the income, all of the household repairs, all of the outside work including all ladder work on the roof and eaves trough, all of the car maintenance and repairs, fight off all of the intruders and muggers and all of the discipline of the children.

Women were expected to bear, and nuture the children, plan and prepare meals, take kids to doctors appointments, keep the house sanitary and keep the husband's tank drained enough that he wasn't out on the street proliferating prostitution, molesting minor girls or overtly coming on to other men's wives.

People that fulfilled those roles and tasks were considered good spouses.

What has changed today is the gender roles have become very blurred if not indestinguishable and people's expectations of what makes a good spouse has skyrocketed.

Our mothers and grandmothers would have laughed if some had wondered if a man would do half the housework and bring his wife coffee in the morning.

They were probably thrilled if he didn't come home drunk, slap them and then barf on the floor the night before.

And they probably wouldn't have even thought of a Felix Unger type guy a "real man" in the first place.

By today's standards, very few of our forefathers and foremothers were marriage material at all.

And many if the single men and women of today would have been considered the least bit attractive or desirable as a spouse to our grandparents.

Can't. Breathe. Can't. Stop. Laughing.

December 20, 2016

If a person believes that they aren't marriage material, then they aren't marriage material. It all goes back to the old addage "when someone tells you who they are, believe them"

December 20, 2016

*I can't think of a single one of the good experiences in my life that hasn't been enhanced by having a partner to share it with. Everyone is marriage or at least relationship material but, as some of the bullet points indicate, not all are willing to do the work.

Her loss...

Mr. Lucky

*I can.

Climbing mountains solo in the Pyrenees, and high Alps. It's the solitude that makes it amazing, and the feeling of achievement is vast.

Doing aerobatics over the sea in a tiny plane with a big engine. There's only one seat so no kissy kissy.

But other things are nice to share, for sure.

Take care.

December 21, 2016

And as just an interesting example of generation gaps, when my kids were babies, my mother in law was very uncomfortable with me changing the kid's diapers. She would literally try to take them out of my hands and tell me to go something else.

She would then get on my wife for "letting" me handle and undress the babies.

My MIL was appalled that her son was taking turns waking up with his newborn daughter. She blamed my SIL and said "We never woke our husbands!" Anything to do with babies was strictly "women's work."

When my husband and I were newlyweds, my mother would grill him about whether or not I was cooking and cleaning. She was chomping at the bit to lecture me about being a bad wife because she was my father's servant despite having a full time job.

I wonder if there has really been such a shift since I have spoken to many moms who are doing most of the child rearing even when they work full time.

December 21, 2016

Climbing mountains solo in the Pyrenees, and high Alps. It's the solitude that makes it amazing, and the feeling of achievement is vast.

Doesn't mean your partner can't share in your enjoyment of it, even vicariously. We can be individuals together.

Doing aerobatics over the sea in a tiny plane with a big engine. There's only one seat so no kissy kissy.

Does that mean no "mile high club" either :confused: ???

Mr. Lucky

December 21, 2016

Most people shouldn't marry.

Nor have kids.

Sacrifice, compromise, and commitment to an others growth, well being, and happiness (at times over yourself) is damn hard work.

Edited December 21, 2016 by dichotomy

December 21, 2016

Whilst I don't share the author's reasons necessarily, I can relate to her sentiment. I'm of a similar demographic; have been in a long term partnership, have a wonderful daughter in grad school who's on the cusp of getting engaged, have a career I thoroughly enjoy, am financially self sufficient, travel extensively and plan to never retire. And I'm 99.9% sure that I will never marry again because it's just not a compelling need for me. At this life stage, there really isn't anything to my knowledge that marriage offers that isn't already taken care of.

That's not to say that I don't love companionship and romantic relationships and sharing life experiences. I'd maybe even, if the right person/people came along be open to cohabitation. But marriage? What for? The only reason I can envisage is if I became involved with someone that was of tremendous value in my life that insisted because it was particularly meaningful for them. In that case I may capitulate/compromise (possibly with prenuptial caveats).

Single person households are actually on the rise this century. It's a new phenomenon. And divorced women comprise a goodly proportion. I understand why.

December 21, 2016

*Doesn't mean your partner can't share in your enjoyment of it, even vicariously. We can be individuals together.

**Does that mean no "mile high club" either :confused: ???

Mr. Lucky

*I always have a camera with me, so there are photos to be shared.

**I hate flying in airliners, so I wouldn't be in the mood

December 21, 2016

I'm definitely "marriage material" even though I am single. I don't relate to any of the article authors sentiments except #4. I cringe at the thought of being completely dependent on a man again.

December 21, 2016

I'm definitely "marriage material" even though I am single. I don't relate to any of the article authors sentiments except #4. I cringe at the thought of being completely dependent on a man again.

And I would assume that most single men today would cringe at the thought of completely providing for a woman and having her be completely dependent on him.

I was ok when my wife worked PT when the kids were little, but I would never consider being the sole provider for another able-bodied adult.

December 21, 2016

And I would assume that most single men today would cringe at the thought of completely providing for a woman and having her be completely dependent on him.

I was ok when my wife worked PT when the kids were little, but I would never consider being the sole provider for another able-bodied adult.

Maybe they do cringe but they are still doing it (not that I'm against it for others, it's just not for me). I was at a Xmas party with a bunch of young married couple this past weekend. They all had young babies and many of these moms didn't work at all. They stopped working once the baby came.

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"Why I am not marriage material" - Is there such a thing?

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