How To Get To The Next Level

[Grey40]

You're reading my mind over here. I was just thinking to myself "Did OP say serious relationship and online dating in the same sentence?"

 

People are scared of someone coming on too strong. If someone likes you enough, you'll naturally move on to a long-term relationship. You don't have ask for a dowry on the first date. Hell, I don't even believe in dates in the traditional sense. That scares people off as well.

 

Humans are fickle and selfish, but once you find the signal in the noise, they start to become predictable. Not logical, predictable.

 

Yeah, not trying to attack, clearly I'm just a little frustrated. And this has happened to me not just on OLD but also with women I meet in person.

 

I wouldn't think "hey, let's grab some drinks this week at XX" is coming on too strong. If the girl was attracted and interested enough wouldn't she agree to go and try it out? I would think most of the time the answer would be yes.

 

So, what it comes down to is that basically for whatever reason the women I'm meeting aren't interested ENOUGH to physically meet up. So, I guess they're initially attracted to my looks etc. but then when I'm talking to them something is going wrong, or they changed their mind for other reasons. Could be that I'm being in-congruent with my looks--maybe they are expecting me to be extremely confident, alpha and suave and maybe I'm not displaying those traits. Could be as simple as they were having fun flirting but are actually still in another relationship and don't want to ruin it too. I could definitley see that happening.

[Grey40]

Maybe you suck at reading women.

 

That last day of my middle school years.. I had plenty girls tell me they liked me the whole 4 years and I had not one clue. That's because what you seen on the exterior is completely different in whats going on in their heads. Same in High school and college.

 

.

 

I'm sorry but this is hilarious, trying to compare Middle School dating/courtship to adulthood is a little laughable. You're talking about people who are 10 years old. By the time they are in their mid-late twenties they're not even the same person and the rules of the game are incredibly different.

 

I do agree though that not all women give signs. There are some girls that either are shy or like being chased and WILL NOT give off signals even if they really like the person. They don't want to make it obvious or they just feel awkward doing so. So yeah, that's why as a guy, if you like a girl, or are attracted and want to get to know them, you just have to do it, you can't always wait for signals to happen, because they just might not happen.

[HereNorThere]

Read some books by dating coaches. Look up Neil Strauss and buy his books. You won't regret it.

 

Btw, Sweetfish isn't saying they weren't giving off signs, he's saying that he couldn't recognize them.

Edited December 18, 2016 by HereNorThere

[Grey40]

Read some books by dating coaches. Look up Neil Strauss and buy his books. You won't regret it.

 

Back in college I read a bunch of those books ( not neil strauss). But I read david deangelo's "how to double your dating" and I've delved into the PUA stuff too back then. It's all nonsense and I don't think it's worth the time and effort. Have you really increased your success after reading someone's book?

 

I always believed what works for one person isn't going to necessarily work for everyone. All of these "dating coaches" "gurus" "PUA artists" and just scammers that try to make dudes believe that there's some golden formula or science to picking up women, and I just don't buy it. I think it's more of trial/error process. I think you have to just keep going until you find what works FOR YOU. Some of this so called "game" works for less attractive men because it makes more "interesting" but it doesn't' always work for attractive men. When attractive guys try to pull that stuff, they just come off extremely douchey and only further perpetuate the idea that good looking guys are "douchey, self-centered players looking to use and abuse". Thats my .02 cents on it.

[HereNorThere]

I couldn't agree more. Pick up artist are losers who use manipulation to trick women into sleeping with them. I like the book The Game because it's a novel about a journalist who goes under cover and ends up falling in with them. It's not manual to getting into someone's pants.

 

That whole community has gone to hell, no doubt. It's all trolls and pigs at this point. However, I think Neil is a great guy who genuinely believes in helping people. I don't advocate using PUA methods, but I do advocate taking away his general message - What makes you a better man will make you more attractive to women.

 

Here's your deal though. Right now, you're never going to have any luck with women. You're frustrated, passive aggressive and you want thing YOUR WAY. That's not how this works AT ALL. Women make the rules, you learn the rules, you succeed. The rules are not logical and you will never figure them out on your own. They go against your instincts.

 

You keep on doing what you're doing and you'll get the same results. Me? I would have JUMPED on that offer from Sweetfish to help you with your profile. I can tell you first hand, he knows what he's talking about. But go ahead and keep banging your head against the wall if it makes you feel better. Sweetfish and I will keep 'em in our pocket like a trifold billfold.

[Sweetfish]

Back in college I read a bunch of those books ( not neil strauss). But I read david deangelo's "how to double your dating" and I've delved into the PUA stuff too back then. It's all nonsense and I don't think it's worth the time and effort. Have you really increased your success after reading someone's book?

 

I always believed what works for one person isn't going to necessarily work for everyone. All of these "dating coaches" "gurus" "PUA artists" and just scammers that try to make dudes believe that there's some golden formula or science to picking up women, and I just don't buy it. I think it's more of trial/error process. I think you have to just keep going until you find what works FOR YOU. Some of this so called "game" works for less attractive men because it makes more "interesting" but it doesn't' always work for attractive men. When attractive guys try to pull that stuff, they just come off extremely douchey and only further perpetuate the idea that good looking guys are "douchey, self-centered players looking to use and abuse". Thats my .02 cents on it.

 

Those PUA artist master are exactly what they are, pickup artist. Those books are good for getting the lady to the date and to be honest they do work. The problem is guys use the pick-up technique and try to create a long lasting relationship on the technique and it doesn't work that way.

 

I always believed what works for one person isn't going to necessarily work for everyone. All of these "dating coaches" "gurus" "PUA artists" and just scammers that try to make dudes believe that there's some golden formula or science to picking up women

There is a golden formula its call confidence and being funny. Guess what?...It works for everybody.

 

"hey, let's grab some drinks this week at XX" literally means you want to get her loose and have the opportunity to hook up with her.

 

Why do guys think women are sooo stupid?

 

Next you go to this place to drink and that's it? Honestly, were is the fun? She could do that with her friends and have more fun with them? So your really not doing anything I believe that should cause a woman to want to rip your pants off.

 

You want to be stubborn.. that's you.

You want everything easy and not put in work.. Thats fine.

 

 

 

You think you got some edge on OLD... hahaha you don't

Edited December 18, 2016 by Sweetfish

[Sweetfish]

I couldn't agree more. Pick up artist are losers who use manipulation to trick women into sleeping with them. I like the book The Game because it's a novel about a journalist who goes under cover and ends up falling in with them. It's not manual to getting into someone's pants.

 

I agree and disagree to a degree. Using manipulation or tactics to sleep with women is not good. However, isn't manipulating your body and looks equivalent?

 

If a women knows a certain dress, makeup, and hair style picks up men.

really how different is it for a man to say certain things to pick up women?

 

If a guy learns in a dating book that being too nice... kills his chances. Is it manipulation? If he opens the door for her and courts her around she may feel unattractive to him or feel he is not a challenge?

 

So were does manipulation begins and when does it end?

 

Both genders are playing prey to what attracts.

[HereNorThere]

I agree and disagree to a degree. Using manipulation or tactics to sleep with women is not good. However, isn't manipulating your body and looks equivalent?

 

If a women knows a certain dress, makeup, and hair style picks up men.

really how different is it for a man to say certain things to pick up women?

 

If a guy learns in a dating book that being too nice... kills his chances. Is it manipulation? If he opens the door for her and courts her around she may feel unattractive to him or feel he is not a challenge?

 

So were does manipulation begins and when does it end?

 

Both genders are playing prey to what attracts.

 

To be completely forthright, I obviously don't think they're all losers. I mean, I was recommending him PUA literature. It's just that he has an obvious bias, so I had to disarm him a little bit or he wouldn't be receptive. Hmm, wonder where I came up with that concept?

 

I still stand by my comment about how much the community has changed. There's just too many douchebags advocating methods that aren't ethical. Some of them may work, but if you walk away from an interaction with a woman and she doesn't feel good about it or herself, it's my opinion you've failed. Specifically I'm talking about Doosh V, RSD, a lot of the red pill stuff, etc. There's like 10% truth and 90% misogyny in their literature.

 

Looking your best is not the equivalent of psychological manipulation. Complete false equivalency.

Edited December 18, 2016 by HereNorThere

[Sweetfish]

To be completely forthright, I obviously don't think they're all losers. I mean, I was recommending him PUA literature. It's just that he has an obvious bias, so I had to disarm him a little bit or he wouldn't be receptive. Hmm, wonder where I came up with that concept?

 

I still stand by my comment about how much the community has changed. There's just too many douchebags advocating methods that aren't ethical. Some of them may work, but if you walk away from an interaction with a woman and she doesn't feel good about it or herself, it's my opinion you've failed. Specifically I'm talking about Doosh V, RSD, a lot of the red pill stuff, etc. There's like 10% truth and 90% misogyny in their literature.

 

I completely agree. You have to really dissect the good and grab the little gold nuggets in a sludge of misleading and bad information.

 

Some men hone out their educational, cultural/religious, and/or intellectual values for years at the expense that they will never come close to being the bad boy type.

 

They will seek out women and fail because with the said above values you may become passive and most women do not like passive men

 

Looking your best is not the equivalent of psychological manipulation. Complete false equivalency.

You have to see it as equivalent in some fashion. The use of sexuality is psychological manipulation.

[Grey40]

Those PUA artist master are exactly what they are, pickup artist. Those books are good for getting the lady to the date and to be honest they do work. The problem is guys use the pick-up technique and try to create a long lasting relationship on the technique and it doesn't work that way.

 

There is a golden formula its call confidence and being funny. Guess what?...It works for everybody.

 

"hey, let's grab some drinks this week at XX" literally means you want to get her loose and have the opportunity to hook up with her.

 

Why do guys think women are sooo stupid?

 

Next you go to this place to drink and that's it? Honestly, were is the fun? She could do that with her friends and have more fun with them? So your really not doing anything I believe that should cause a woman to want to rip your pants off.

 

You want to be stubborn.. that's you.

You want everything easy and not put in work.. Thats fine.

 

 

 

You think you got some edge on OLD... hahaha you don't

 

I'm totally open to trying out some new approaches and ideas, but doing any of the PUA is not going to be one of them. It's not natural feeling at all, and I'm going to try and internalize a culture and personality that isn't myself. I feel confident enough to make it happen without having to use "technique".

 

I think you made a really really great point about my date offer. You're right, going out for drinks isn't the greatest or most exciting date offer. The reason I would use that, especially online, is that it feels a lot more casual and puts less pressure on the fact that it's a "date". Girls have said on here that making it too formal "let's go to dinner and a movie" etc. is that it seems forced, unnatural and kind of nerve-wracking for the girl. What if she doesn't like you all that much? She would feel no way to back out in case she changes her mind. Drinks is very simple, low pressure, casual situation. If the girl likes you enough she can go and enjoy herself and get to know you, and she can decide how far she wants to take it. If it doesn't work out, or she isn't feeling it, there wasn't a lot of commitment on her part--she just showed up for drinks, and probably won't pay for most of them. So to me, it seems like a win-win kind of first date. It's not really a date even, it's more of "trial date" to see if you even get along.

 

That being said, you're right, women can certainly take that and look at it as "he's just taking me to a bar to get in my pants, and get me drunk, that's all he's interested in." OR "Eh, what if the conversation is boring, or stalls or is awkward, it'll be a ****ty night at the bar..I'd rather do that with my girlfriends" Yeah, I can totally see girls thinking that. When I ask the next women out, I will try and think of a better event to do. Any ideas? Hiking only works if she's outdoorsy, movies is an awful first date (can't talk to them much) and bowling seems like something you'd do once you're already a couple. I've asked a girl to come see my friends band at a bar before, but once again, that's really just going to get drinks.

 

It'd be nice to hear a women's perspective on this part of the issue.

[Grey40]

I completely agree. You have to really dissect the good and grab the little gold nuggets in a sludge of misleading and bad information.

 

Some men hone out their educational, cultural/religious, and/or intellectual values for years at the expense that they will never come close to being the bad boy type.

 

They will seek out women and fail because with the said above values you may become passive and most women do not like passive men

 

You have to see it as equivalent in some fashion. The use of sexuality is psychological manipulation.

 

And once again, while I agree women are attracted to an "alpha male", you see betas and passive guys dating and hooking up with attractive women all the time--I know I see it. So, it's not an "end-all-be-all". A lot of it seems to be having common interests with the girl, making her feel good and for the timing to be right. Not just about being overly confident and masculine. Some girls go for the the more quirky, nerdy passive guys. Sure, if you display those common alpha characteristics it will make girls attracted naturally and what not, but it's not going to guarantee anything. I also think that behavior and attitude is partially genetic. Someone who grew up their whole lives passive will never reach the level of dominant, alpha male that men growing up in those circumstances will. And the PUA stuff certainly seems to convince men to change everything about who they are, and try and emulate a person that they cannot relate to.

 

And don't act like "I hold all the secrets, PM me BS." Just lay it out on here like a man, are you really afraid you're going to lose a chance with all the women around you because you post how you get dates on a forum? Come on man.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Grey40