Sexless marriage

[lostlover99]

That is a good plan.

 

I suggest you check out the books and website by author and blogger Athol Kay. His book "Married Man Sex Life Primer," Lays out a much similar plan.

 

His books and blogs and forums are all about married men getting their sexy back and trying to regain their wive's sexual attraction to them.

 

Some people are success, some are not.

 

The basic premise of Athol Kay's plan is to improve yourself to the point that any other woman of equal or greater status of your wife will find you desirable (but not so that you can cheat).

 

Then once you are at a point where you can replace her, then you clearly state your discontent and lay out exactly what kind of marital life you want to have and give her the option of stepping up to the plate and meeting your expectations, or of moving on without her and leaving her behind while you start a new life with someone(s) else.

 

From your description, you are already at a point where you could likely date a number of attractive and sexy women many years younger than your wife without much effort. She is in fact quite replaceable. You are already at a point where you could give her options and if she chooses an option that is not acceptable to you, you could walk away or bring home women to bang in the spare bedroom while she listens. (I'm not suggesting anyone would do such a thing of course, just saying that you have many different options at this point)

 

For her, seeing a doctor and seeing if hormone replacement therapy is an option or not is a very viable first step for her.

 

Some women miss their declining mojo very much and eagerly seek HRT in hopes of restoring some of their previous libido and mojo.

 

Your wife on the otherhand sounds like she perfectly content to see your sex life fading out of view from the rearview mirror. If that is the case she may not seek medical attention and even if she were to go on HRT, it may not effect her desire for you at all.

 

(there is even a very real risk she may get her mojo back but her horniness will benefit some other guy instead of you)

 

So bottom line is your plan is valid, but you need to ready to deal with her choosing not address the issue, and ready to deal with if she is simply no longer interested in a sex life with you regardless of what is said or done.

 

And of course, none of this can be idle threats or simple huffing and puffing and chest-thumping. If you threaten to leave her and she calls your bluff and you don't take action, then she simply owns you and you become her footrub boy and live the rest of your days as an emasculated puppy dog.

 

You actually have to be ready, willing and able to actually pack your stuff and move on before you even bring that up as an option. Anything else is just being a slimy, manipulative worm and if she calls your bluff, you are done for.

 

Thanks ... I understand ... I am in sales and very good at that ... its just that I thought once you use a product for long time, you see under the packaging and dont need to be sold again ... but I guess that is not true ... not that I have given up on being attractive physically or intellectually or financially ... I have never taken anything for granted professionally or personally and stayed on my toes whole my life and enjoy it as well ... but did not worry about selling myself again to same customer ... but worth a try in any case ...

[oldshirt]

Yep, heard it before .... nice men sleep alone ....

 

Niceness doesn't make people sleep alone. Being a good, decent person is not a liability and does not exclude living a life of sexuality.

 

What causes people to sleep alone is lacking or not developing the traits and characteristics that make them sexually desirable. Or barking up the wrong the tree and pursuing people that simply do not find them sexually attractive (or combination there of).

 

You sound like a decent person and you sound like you are physically fit and financially secure.

 

Two weeks on the open dating market and you'll need your secretary to start managing all your dating calendars and schedules and screening all your phone calls.

[lostlover99]

Why doesn't she enjoy?

Did she say why?

Did she ever really enjoy sex?

 

Menopause does not necessarily mean the death of sex, something else is going on here.

 

Very few will decide to give up totally on something they basically like doing.

 

Some just use the menopause as an excuse, to get out of having to put up with unsatisfying sex, or get out of having sex with men they are no longer attracted to... etc. etc.

The menopause can also give some the courage to say they are actually low drive/no drive and that they only did it FOR HIM in the first place and now they would rather not - for all sorts of reasons.

For some married women it is really no skin off her nose to give him "what he wants", even if she is not 100% in, even if she doesn't like doing it all that much, but add in a bit of discomfort, some health concerns, some resentment, some life stresses, and sex may seem a trivial need, even an immature need.

"My mother is dying here, and YOU want a BJ, grow up!"

 

In her fifties, women start dealing with life and death issues, ageing parents, dead people, ill people, her own mortality, the death of her 'fertility'... it is all very serious stuff, sex is then put on the back burner.

She is also dealing with her own ageing, society tends not to be particularly kind to the older woman, especially as regards sex. A "trying to be sexy" 50+ woman is often seen as a figure of derision or disgust...

 

She also goes through the empty nest, the stresses of parenthood, the responsibility for the whole family often lands squarely on her shoulders, she is the one they come crying to, the one they get angry with when life goes pear-shaped, she is the one the ageing parents and grandchildren are dumped on.

To cap it all her ovaries let her down too, and she feels like "c..." and she thinks she looks like "c..." too.

She shuts down the sex a bit, she then rather likes being "left alone", and one day she goes "no more", she reaches her tipping point.

 

Of course not all women are like this, some sail through the menopause, some just love sex no matter their age, they are completely confident in their sexuality, and some will always fully investigate different ways to get round the "issues" that come with ageing for men and for women. They are determined to provide a satisfying sex life for themselves and their partner.

 

Good second question ... some root cause analysis here ... I have mixed feelings and that attributes more to my inexperience with other women at any serious level ... we got married early, drove deep down in setting up family and settled quickly ... everything was as per theory ... no drama at all ... we have been empty nesters for a while now ... and she does not look or feel like c*** ... but i have done enough reading about menopause and all the articles say it is 50-50 in which direction a woman will go ... some may become very eager to engage in sexual activity while some may just retire ... I am guessing its the later in her case ...

[Aesc]

Yeah, but I doubt if the chicks he was laying the lumber to were anywhere near his age.

I'm wondering if you even know who he was? As far as I know he was a happily married man and I'm fairly sure too that he was faithful and monogamous. My point was, that as long as you are healthy there is no reason to expect sexual desire to diminish, regardless of how old you may be. Not everyone dies of heart attack or stroke due to clogged arteries etc. As long as there is plenty of blood flowing through your most vital of organs, then there is plenty of blood flowing through your genitals also.

[elaine567]

That has been my approach so far .... understanding, compromising .... I am guessing I am **** scared to sit and talk ... may be in my deepest mind I know the answer and I am scared to face it ...

 

Time to ask those probing questions and face head on where they lead, or you can just sit and stew forever... not happy but not willing to do anything about it.

[lostlover99]

OP, the concerning issue as I read your thread is that your wife is not interested in addressing this with her doctor and has made a unilateral decision regarding something that is important to you (and should be to her.)

Speaking plainly, I would call bs on her excuse of menopause without consulting with a physician.

Another poster said, and I agree, if my libido was affected to an extent that having sex with my husband became painful/couldn't muster myself....that appointment would be high on the priority list.

 

It's likely that your wife is not taking your desires seriously.

 

Actions speak louder than words. I would tell her that you are not willing to continue this marriage without sex. If she does have a medical condition preventing her from doing so then it will be verified by a doctor.

 

If she will not make an appointment, pack a bag and hit the road. She has ceased to be a team and has become a dictator.

 

I guess the first step is to talk to doctor ...

[oldshirt]

Thanks ... I understand ... I am in sales and very good at that ... its just that I thought once you use a product for long time, you see under the packaging and dont need to be sold again ... but I guess that is not true ... not that I have given up on being attractive physically or intellectually or financially ... I have never taken anything for granted professionally or personally and stayed on my toes whole my life and enjoy it as well ... but did not worry about selling myself again to same customer ... but worth a try in any case ...

 

In one respect you have kind of hit the nail on the head.

 

With long term marriage, you never really can sit back and rest. You always continue to date, flirt, banter and do whatever you can to knock her socks off in bed. The dating and the courting and flirtation etc never really end.

 

Since you want to put it in terms of marketing and sales. You have sold her on the product of your financial success and security.

 

But she is not buying your sexuality.

 

You need to market and showcase your sexuality.

 

Look at this way, if you were to go onto the open dating market, what is the first thing you would do? You would hit the gym, brush up on the hairstyle, whiten the teeth, get a new wardrobe etc etc and then when out on dates you would be laying on the charm and flirtation and sexuality and then once you did get the green light in bed, you would do everything in your Sexy Arsenal to make sure she had the time of her life and would be coming back for more.

 

That never really changes (or at least it shouldn't) when you are in a LTR.

 

Shine up your sexuality, market it and try to sell it again.

 

If she is not in the market for it and isn't buying - someone else will.

[lostlover99]

Niceness doesn't make people sleep alone. Being a good, decent person is not a liability and does not exclude living a life of sexuality.

 

What causes people to sleep alone is lacking or not developing the traits and characteristics that make them sexually desirable. Or barking up the wrong the tree and pursuing people that simply do not find them sexually attractive (or combination there of).

 

You sound like a decent person and you sound like you are physically fit and financially secure.

 

Two weeks on the open dating market and you'll need your secretary to start managing all your dating calendars and schedules and screening all your phone calls.

 

Thanks ... ... good for my ego but not ready to go that route (yet) ... still hoping to turn the situation around ...

[Aesc]

Yeah, but I doubt if the chicks he was laying the lumber to were anywhere near his age.

 

Physical pain? Less Desire to engage in sexual activity? These are the common traits in a post menopausal women, as I have researched. And she does hold hands and kiss. My dog also does the same whenever he sees me.

 

Her affectionate gestures adds more to my frustration and resentment. Hope you understand what I am trying to say.

 

Well, the nice thing about a dog, is that they can usually be trained. Basically you might just have to do the same with your wife. Psychologically outwit her, figure out a way to change her attitude, thoughts and actions

[lostlover99]

In one respect you have kind of hit the nail on the head.

 

With long term marriage, you never really can sit back and rest. You always continue to date, flirt, banter and do whatever you can to knock her socks off in bed. The dating and the courting and flirtation etc never really end.

 

Since you want to put it in terms of marketing and sales. You have sold her on the product of your financial success and security.

 

But she is not buying your sexuality.

 

You need to market and showcase your sexuality.

 

Look at this way, if you were to go onto the open dating market, what is the first thing you would do? You would hit the gym, brush up on the hairstyle, whiten the teeth, get a new wardrobe etc etc and then when out on dates you would be laying on the charm and flirtation and sexuality and then once you did get the green light in bed, you would do everything in your Sexy Arsenal to make sure she had the time of her life and would be coming back for more.

 

That never really changes (or at least it shouldn't) when you are in a LTR.

 

Shine up your sexuality, market it and try to sell it again.

 

If she is not in the market for it and isn't buying - someone else will.

 

Trust me, I have never deviated from everything what you say I should do ... but the intent was never to seduce another woman ... intent was first professional (and every sales eprson worth his/her salt would know what i am talking about), second to make my wife feel proud about me ... am I liked(!) by other women, absolutely ... in what way? I have no clue ... may be they find me 'safe' because I am in so much love with my wife ... do I flirt with my wife in front of others? absolutely ... does she like it? absolutely ... do I flirt with other women in front of her or in her absence? absolutely ... is she jealous of these women? never even once ... because she knows I am 110% honest and open ... how do i look? 10 years younger than my true age.. how do i feel? 15 years younger than what i am ... I play Guitar, I play Keyboard, I sing in parties ... but everything I did was for her ...

 

trust me, I am confused because I have done everything that is 'right', and god knows willingly ... and other than 'sex' everything else is incredibly great .. as I mentioned before ...

[lostlover99]

Well, the nice thing about a dog, is that they can usually be trained. Basically you might just have to do the same with your wife. Psychologically outwit her, figure out a way to change her attitude, thoughts and actions

 

Hmmm .... got to figure something out ...

[Aesc]

First of all, I am sorry you have been put in this situation. Sex is a big part of marriage and intimacy. I do not think turning to porn or adultery will do anything but hurt you. Also, threatening her with divorce papers will only drive her further away emotionally. It sounds like you really love and care for her, at least you both have become more healthy and fit haha! But seriously, I think you need to sit her down and communicate how important sex is not for lust and release, but for love and communion with each other. I know there are times I did not want to have sex, but I wanted to do something for my husband, and ended up enjoying it when I was open. Try to be empathetic and think if you didn't want to and only she did, putting yourself in her shoes. Maybe compromising to not have sex as often could be an option, like every few weeks or so? But cutting it out completely is hurtful and a bit selfish. Best of luck!

 

Apparently she isn't listening, hearing her husband. So, she needs a "professional" to sit her down and explain how important sexual intimacy is in their marriage.

[oldshirt]

Trust me, I have never deviated from everything what you say I should do ... but the intent was never to seduce another woman ... intent was first professional (and every sales eprson worth his/her salt would know what i am talking about), second to make my wife feel proud about me ... am I liked(!) by other women, absolutely ... in what way? I have no clue ... may be they find me 'safe' because I am in so much love with my wife ... do I flirt with my wife in front of others? absolutely ... does she like it? absolutely ... do I flirt with other women in front of her or in her absence? absolutely ... is she jealous of these women? never even once ... because she knows I am 110% honest and open ... how do i look? 10 years younger than my true age.. how do i feel? 15 years younger than what i am ... I play Guitar, I play Keyboard, I sing in parties ... but everything I did was for her ...

 

trust me, I am confused because I have done everything that is 'right', and god knows willingly ... and other than 'sex' everything else is incredibly great .. as I mentioned before ...

 

I'm not saying you should hit it with other women.

 

I am saying if she doesn't want to purchase your wares, someone else will.

 

what she does with her sexuality is her business and her prerogative. If she doesn't want a sex life with you anymore, that is her choice and it is to be respected.

 

But at that point, what you do with your sexuality is your choice and your business.

 

Where the benefit of being attractive to other women comes in is that if you know you can move on to other women, that makes it so you are not desperate and needy and you won't be inclined to let her walk all over you or dictate her terms onto you. When you have other options, you are not at anyone's mercy.

 

When you know that you can move on and find someone else, you can give her the option of stepping up to the plate with you or both of you moving on.

 

At that point it is on her and she would be making an informed decision.

 

She may opt for addressing the issues, being honest with doctor, getting MC etc, or she may opt to let you go.

[oldshirt]

Apparently she isn't listening, hearing her husband. So, she needs a "professional" to sit her down and explain how important sexual intimacy is in their marriage.

 

This is an important point. We experienced this personally a few years ago when we were going through a rough patch.

 

We had some marital issues and ended up in the MC's office. After a session or two, the MC basically looked my wife in the eye and said that I my needs and wishes were valid and reasonable and that I had a valid and realistic divorce plan and that I was serious and that she could either continue to point fingers and say I should be different and have a nice time in divorce court and have fun setting up a new life in her own apartment as a divorce woman and half-time mother, or she could wake up and address the issues and take me seriously.

 

In our case she opted for the latter, but it was only after a professional 3rd told her in no uncertain terms what her options were.

 

She didn't believe me or take me seriously up until that point. Had we not had MC, the chances are she never would have taken the situation seriously until she received the divorce papers and having the judge ordering the sale of our house and division of marital assets.

 

I have the feeling Lostlover's wife will be the same way. He has spent decades taking care of her and seeing to her needs. I don't think she has a grasp that he has bona fide needs of his own.

 

IMHO it will take either a professional getting through to her or it will take getting served with papers or perhaps even seeing him moving in with someone else before she sees the light.

[oldshirt]

 

I have the feeling Lostlover's wife will be the same way. He has spent decades taking care of her and seeing to her needs. I don't think she has a grasp that he has bona fide needs of his own.

 

IMHO it will take either a professional getting through to her or it will take getting served with papers or perhaps even seeing him moving in with someone else before she sees the light.

 

However this is assuming she still wants to have a happy, healthy marriage and life with him.

 

She may be OK with dissolving the marriage and each going their own way.

 

Or she may be OK with him doing whatever he needs to do as long as he keeps his mitts off of her.

[Ruby Slippers]

A person invests 30+ years in a relationship, stays in love, stays dedicated, loyal and truthful, works hard to make his spouse happy, makes sure his kids get best education and settle and start their lives debt free, sacrifices all his personal desires to make his family happy, behaves nicely in spite going through several pressures in professional life. Basically takes all the **** in the world to make sure his family is in good shape. Doesn't his wife get that?

I see it as very selfish and disrespectful for her to simply remove sex from the marriage with no consideration for your needs. It suggests she's really the one in charge in the relationship. I can't see a woman who loves and respects her husband just removing sex entirely and expecting him to suffer along with that for her benefit. She could offer some alternatives, including oral sex and other variations, but doesn't even care to do that.

 

But it's a two-way street. The fact that you said you'd give her "everything" in case of divorce, even when she's stripping sex from the marriage, suggests you've willingly put yourself in the self-sacrificing workhorse role and at this time can't even imagine yourself in any other role. I think it would be benefit you to start imagining yourself in more attractive scenarios that this one.

 

I am fully aware of option 2. there are tons of good women out there who would jump on me just because I am a good husband material. Whats the point? I am a good husband even now. That does not put my wife on fire. What are the chances that other women, after couple of years, will continue to give me the pleasures I seek?

With your finances and fitness, I don't think you'd have much problem finding a basically unending string of girlfriends for sex and companionship. As someone suggested, you could maintain a good platonic friendship and coparenting relationship with your wife, while also enjoying great sex and passion elsewhere.

 

If I were in your position, I think I'd first ask for an open relationship. She needs to know this arrangement isn't acceptable to you. When she inevitably rejects that, assuming she doesn't offer any other workable options, then it's time to make a decision about whether you really want to accept the rest of your life being sexless.

[dichotomy]

Does not matter what a wife does after the divorce for the husband is not married to her at that point.

 

I believe life is learning and understanding and growing. As we have seen in these posts from a spouse trapped in sexless marriage, or being cheated on, the hurt spouse if left with a ton of whys? Even if the answers or information is painful to find out - it can help a person grow in the next phase of their life.

 

Then again you probably have a point and some people don't really care why - they just want to move on a find a better life.

[kiyoma]

Some close friends advised release in Vegas... but wont be able to as I have never cheated on her. I know I will die because of guilt.

 

You never know what she has pulled behind your back. If we take what you say at face value that she is a gorgeous woman and living in North American culture where men flirting casually with married women (sometimes as blatant as using sexual terms) is not strongly rebuffed by the women themselves, its not totally inconceivable that at one point she went off the track.

 

So cut yourself some slack.

[dichotomy]

You never know what she has pulled behind your back. If we take what you say at face value that she is a gorgeous woman and living in North American culture where men flirting casually with married women (sometimes as blatant as using sexual terms) is not strongly rebuffed by the women themselves, its not totally inconceivable that at one point she went off the track.

 

So cut yourself some slack.

 

 

Or understand she feels no guilt over cutting of sexual intimacy and your suffering over this loss.

 

Again your not cheating if its something she has choose not to be part of your marriage anymore. Especially not with a professional in Vegas.

[oldshirt]

You never know what she has pulled behind your back. If we take what you say at face value that she is a gorgeous woman and living in North American culture where men flirting casually with married women (sometimes as blatant as using sexual terms) is not strongly rebuffed by the women themselves, its not totally inconceivable that at one point she went off the track.

 

.

 

Which brings up a point that must be broached.

 

Have you done your due diligence in seeing if she is getting it elsewhere?

 

By 'due diligence' I mean have you actually looked into it and investigated that possibility without coming out and asking her but instead have thoroughly searched her phone and txt bills, looked for a secret phone, hacked her computer, emails, social media, placed voice-activated-recorder and GPS tracker in her car, hired a PI to follow her movements etc etc

 

Until you have done that, you have not looked into the possibility of her getting it elsewhere.

 

You cannot just ask her. All she will do is say no and then go underground and cover her tracks better.

 

If she is cheating, nothing else you do will have any effect while she is getting her kibbles and bits elsewhere.

[Aesc]

Which brings up a point that must be broached.

 

Have you done your due diligence in seeing if she is getting it elsewhere?

 

By 'due diligence' I mean have you actually looked into it and investigated that possibility without coming out and asking her but instead have thoroughly searched her phone and txt bills, looked for a secret phone, hacked her computer, emails, social media, placed voice-activated-recorder and GPS tracker in her car, hired a PI to follow her movements etc etc

 

Until you have done that, you have not looked into the possibility of her getting it elsewhere.

 

You cannot just ask her. All she will do is say no and then go underground and cover her tracks better.

 

If she is cheating, nothing else you do will have any effect while she is getting her kibbles and bits elsewhere.

 

Good suggestion.

[Mr. Lucky]

If she is cheating, nothing else you do will have any effect while she is getting her kibbles and bits elsewhere.

 

Theoretically possible but the OP's situation would be very unusual were his spouse cheating. It's very rare for the BS to be cut off completely, the WS prefers them fat, dumb and happy.

 

As it's doing with lostlover99, forced abstinence raises too many questions...

 

Mr. Lucky

[dichotomy]

Apparently she isn't listening, hearing her husband. So, she needs a "professional" to sit her down and explain how important sexual intimacy is in their marriage.

 

 

I got my wife to a female marriage and sex therapist. We went for 9 months as a couple. It only resulted minor improvements for my wife. Some increase in the quality of sex - from horrible to - kinda ok - for a while.

 

It did however relieve me of alot of self doubts and concerns I was the problem- as the therapist finally told my wife she was so lucky to have a guy like me - and she needed to get her sexual mojo back. Up until that point my wife was using every excuse and twisting me around. It was so helpful to watch the expressions on my therapist face when my wife pulled those games while we were in session. Whether its affairs or low/no sex marriages - the deprived or hurt spouse often think its all their fault or they are not good enough. At least I stopped that thinking.

[oldshirt]

Theoretically possible but the OP's situation would be very unusual were his spouse cheating. It's very rare for the BS to be cut off completely, the WS prefers them fat, dumb and happy.

 

As it's doing with lostlover99, forced abstinence raises too many questions...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

That may be true in the very opening acts of an A, but once a WW and OM have got it on a few times it is quite common for almost all of the WW's sexual attraction and desire to be transferred to the OM and she loses almost all interest in sex with the BH.

 

In fact many WWs report feeling very uncomfortable and awkward or even outright repulsion at the thought of sex with the BH. Many liken it to feeling like they are "cheating" on the OM.

 

In Lostlover's case here, his wife having an AP(s) would explain her behavior completely including reporting to her doctor that "everything is fine." To her it would be 'fine.' To her life is grand and her libido is fully intact - just not for Lostlover.

 

This is a possibility that should have been brought up in the first few posts of Page 1.

[oldshirt]

....Keep in mind I am not saying she is cheating or that he has presented any evidence of infidelity yet.

 

I am saying that it is something that needs to be thoroughly and diligently investigated and ruled out before proceeding to any other therapies.

 

If someone is getting their needs met elsewhere, then nothing else that the other spouse can do will have any effect or show any improvement.

 

If an A does exist, then nothing else other than breaking up the A will have any positive effect for Lostlover.