What sort of girl am I dealing with?

[Butlerist]

hi guys,

 

A few months ago, I came across a girl. It all started off from my car that I was selling in an advert (i know right, a car advert!). She called and was a cheeky girl and exceedingly very funny. In the end, we kept in touch but had not met. She is from a Pakistani Muslim background whose parents are conservative. She doesn't really practice, but the family very much does, including all 4 siblings. We would talk and after only 3 to 4 calls, she wanted to meet me. Having had many friends from the Asian continent, I knew the consequences and challenges. I come from a very liberal and free thinking family, so I have had relationships, breakups, heart breaks, all of which I sat at the dinner table and discussed. I'm 36 and single. She is 29 and single, but is divorced, having been married to an exceedingly conservative and abusive, alcoholic man.

 

Without sounding arrogant here, I want to say it as it has been. She pursued me, quite consistently and wanted to meet me. My reluctance in meeting was down to the fact that I felt if we met and stuff happened, she would become exceedingly attached based on things she would say and her background. I knew I would like her, but the whole family situation and the fact that girls like her can't date is a huge problem. It has to be kept under wraps until she is sure and even then, there is this whole thing about whether I would even want to be part of a religious Muslim family. I mean, all of her jokes to me were always about marriage or things like "are you flirting with me? are you proposing to me? You want to have my kids don't you?" are not precisely things one feels comfortable with.

 

I admit that I did give in to my weaknesses, met her and ended up kissing her. From that moment on, the phone calls at night became greater and she always did this 'sleeptalking' thing. Just before bedtime, she would talk to me and slowly doze off. But in this so called stage, I would say "are you there?" and she would mutter things under her breath like "I like you...I'm falling in love with you...please don't let go....don't let go" but in a way that made you think she is dreaming and saying it. Those words so early on and after our second meeting, made me feel heavy chested. When I would call her up on it the next day, she would not have any recollection and say that she is known to say stuff in her sleep. This sort of stuff continued though for many weeks. To the point where I was literally putting her to sleep at nights until like 2am, where the next day I was exhausted for work.

 

Why did I do it? I didn't have the heart to put the phone down on her, when I felt she needed me. In the end, she said she felt ridiculous and had to draw distance as this was not healthy and that I was on her mind 24/7. We did, yet that very night I thought her world was coming to an end with the way she started breathing. She still told me to get off the phone and leave her alone, but I thought she would have a heart attack.

 

During our conversations, as I am literally in mid explanation of something she will cut in and say something like "you are perfection to me. Do you know that?" or just as I am speaking about anything she cuts in and will say "I miss you. You are so special to me. My heart longs for you" and I will feel overwhelmed and respond with "that is very sweet of you to say that" and try to resume with the conversation. She will then say something like "but obviously not sweet enough". All of the time, I hear things like "you give me the butterflies" and if I say something endearing she will respond back with "Baby...you are such a cutey putey poochi...i want to grab that face and kiss it muah muah muah". Don't get me wrong, it is all sweet but only if the relationship had some foundation.

 

When I do meet her, it does feel lovely and nice. I want to kiss her and hug her. I feel like I want her next to me. She is very cute, but also I ask myself questions about all of the above and also am experienced enough to know that feeling isn't the basis of a longer term relationship (as I have had girlfriends in the past which made me feel this way but who were so so wrong for me).

 

Don't forget I am not in a relationship with her and have met her only 4 to 5 times. Although she wants to, I have stayed away from having sexual relations, as I would feel like that would seriously make things take a turn. I am a passionate guy and show it, but I also have tried to use my wisdom from experiences of past relationships, with girls from various religions, countries and backgrounds, crazy ones and sweet ones to conclude whether I am right that this girl would prove problematic in a relationship and that she isn't really thinking. Let alone the whole religious family situation! What is worse is that now that I am away for a week to see family in Germany, when we don't talk at nights, I sense this withdrawal. As though I sense it is a duty to do so. Crazy!

 

I do feel a sense of manipulation here too, perhaps non malicious, but your advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Much love

Butlerist x

Edited December 12, 2016 by Butlerist
Too long before

[travelbug1996]

Sounds like she's in love with the idea of love. Anybody that she's attracted to will do. Please don't have sex with her since she sounds like a lot of work. Set some boundaries and turn your phone off after your usual bed time.

[Butlerist]

Thanks Travelbug1996. Appreciate the feedback.

[smackie9]

Sounds like she's just playing out a fantasy. If it doesn't feel right then it's not......

[duncsvoice]

Not necessarily saying she has borderline personality disorder, but my BPD ex "lovebombed", just in the same way this girl sounds like she is doing with you.

[CommittedToThis]

my BPD ex "lovebombed", just in the same way this girl sounds like she is doing with you.

 

This was my first thought: OP is dealing with someone with Cluster B traits.

 

To OP: I learned the hard way, spent 10 years with exuNPDgf. It was miserable and wonderful often at the same time, but the misery finally got the best of me and I left. Never been happier.

 

I mention this because my New Rule For Living™, which I painstakingly learned at the hands of exuNPDgf, is:

 

ALWAYS TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS.

 

Your gut is telling you this potential partner is not altogether right for you.

 

Listen to your instincts.

[alphamale]

this girl would prove problematic in a relationship

 

now that's the understatement of the year

[Butlerist]

Massive thanks guys for your input. I probably haven't mentioned 90pcent but you get the point. My instincts do tell me I am right. I mean I ask myself if someone told me they didn't see a future, I would have backed away and left them to be. She sort of kept in touch regularly until I became used to it, but I also played a part by answering the phone or returning calls.

 

Whenever she would say stuff 'jokingly' to me that felt uncomfortable to me, I would sort of call her name a bit louder on the phone and she would back down and apologize. I don't know whether drawing me in was a cunning plan or whether this is just someone who was wearing their heart on their sleeve and this is a 'personality'. But there are 'drama queen' traits she has like when I sent her photos of my sweet baby cousin, her reaction was literally so overwhelming like "I am in love with your baby cousin. Oh my god, please get me her. Wow, that doesn't sound right. But please get me her. Oooh..such a cutey. We would have cute kids. Very cute kids. Okay i will shut up". Like she is acting in a play?

[CommittedToThis]

she would say stuff 'jokingly' to me that felt uncomfortable (EDIT) Like she is acting in a play?

 

Ok man, these are two more Cluster B personality disorder traits: the "joking" (ALWAYS believe them when they "joke" about something that comes at your expense or otherwise makes you uncomfortable) and the "things she says that sound rehearsed."

 

In researching personality disorders for the past, oh, I dunno, G*DD*MN YEAR, I've become an armchair quarterback, reason being I am learning every red flag out there so I can make relationship decisions not only with more clarity, but earlier in the relationship.

 

Nothing worse than something dragging on for a decade, trust me, I know.

 

All the best!

[Butlerist]

Wow. It does sound like you have seriously gone through a lot over the last 10yrs man. I seriously appreciate your advice. I am looking into this Cluster B now, just to see how similar the traits are. But there is definitely something not right and I am glad, albeit it is hard over a post, you and the others can confirm the same doubts.

[joseb]

This is borderline crazy (pun intended!) even if she isn't, she is really weird and with the whole religious angle you really would be nuts pursuing this.

 

As cute as she is, let her go.

[Butlerist]

Hey joseb. Thank you for that. Yes, I agree. I do feel like there is a personality trait issue of some sort. Something isn't right. Sometimes though I struggle to understand how someone can have a disorder, yet also be able to say things like "i have taken up enough of your time" or "We need distance and I am going to back off as I feel I am seriously damaging both of us". So the person definitely sounds like they have empathy and can have sense, but the bit that makes them wacky, is when they whisper things like "i think we belong together" as I would fall asleep talking to her to which I responded by running for the the hills after hearing it!

 

Definitely decided to break away.

[CommittedToThis]

Something isn't right. Sometimes though I struggle to understand how someone can have a disorder, yet also be able to say things like "i have taken up enough of your time" or "We need distance and I am going to back off as I feel I am seriously damaging both of us".

 

Good job on calling it a day, Butlerist. Are you a butler, incidentally?

 

"Something isn't right." You have probably already seen that somewhere on personality disorder boards or websites. That's usually a very early clue, that you just feel something's not right, something isn't cool.

 

My ex put me thru every trick in the book, all the while maintaining a fantastic job and generally succeeding in every aspect of life except the relationship, where she was a nightmare.

 

PD's can be super-highly functional, in fact many people with NPD are incredibly driven intelligent people who are incredibly successful.

 

Anyone recently in the spotlight come to mind?

 

Rock on man, you made the right move. Trust in that, and move forward. All the best!

[Butlerist]

haha...I'm not a Butler no. It was a name that a friend of mine used to use on us all and I just started to make it my username:). Spotlight? That Trump fella perhaps:)

 

This girl is very much high functioning. In terms of her social and conversational skills, she is very good at that.

 

Did your partner at the beginning make you feel good about yourself? Was she always very loving and expressive in her feelings towards you?

Edited December 12, 2016 by Butlerist

[salparadise]

Did your partner at the beginning make you feel good about yourself? Was she always very loving and expressive in her feelings towards you?

 

 

Yup. It's called the idealization phase. They instinctively know how to make you addicted to the adulation and constant attention. That combined with that feeling that something not quite normal is the cue you need to heed.

[Popsicle]

You're not going to dump her (and you shouldn't). :pi

[Butlerist]

Lol....no need to dump as we weren't an item. I have taken distance already. Just more intrigued at the personality traits here as I haven't experienced anything like it.

[salparadise]

You're not going to dump her (and you shouldn't). :pi

 

Why would you say that––what's the reasoning? If we tango with a wacko does the mean we're stuck with'em for life?

[HorseLuck]

Good for you Butlerist on taking the space. This kind of reminds me of my ex..I felt something was off too but couldn't quite nail it. Guess I have some research to do as well on personality disorders.

[Butlerist]

Guys, you may have done this in previous posts already, but is it worth setting up a post with things like dialogue that took place between us and the partner, in a way that would indicate to someone that wants information the patterns or behavioral traits we were facing to know what to look out for?

[Popsicle]

Why would you say that––what's the reasoning? If we tango with a wacko does the mean we're stuck with'em for life?

 

I don't feel like arguing but she's just showing love and being expressive, that's not being "wacko". Some women are more loving and some are colder. And he shouldn't ditch her because she's done nothing wrong, but more importantly, he likes it. And he likes her. He's just not used to it, probably used to cold women, but he will MISS IT if ditches her, or takes distance or whatever you want to call it.

[Butlerist]

Popsicle - I have actually been used to warm women. I come from a family of very warm people so in fact, when I have been with cold women I felt it.

 

You are right, this girl has warmth. However, why do I feel so exhausted? Why would someone after just the first kiss start 'sleepwalking' and telling me to not let go and that they are i love? How can she literally start talking about our future and kids etc and telling me things like 'i had a dream we were in a villa with your parents (whom she has never met) and we were all like a happy family. It was perfect'?

 

Who says stuff like "would you be scared if I turned up at your work place? Okay, that is a bit crazy of me". So she may make you feel comfortable by acknowledging that it is a crazy thing, but still why on earth say that stuff in the first place?

 

I put her to sleep for 4 weeks by literally staying on the phone to her until 1am so that she would fall asleep. To which every night she would keep sleepwalking to me an whispering to me she likes me and loves me. I know that all of us need affection and want to be loved. But waiting until you fall asleep every single night until you fall asleep is totally unhealthy.

 

Who turns around and says stuff like '...we belong together....don't let go....we belong with one another'?! Plus along with that, she is incredibly theatrical. I can't tell you how many times she has expressed emotions towards me and has expressed emotions with precisely the same intensity towards people she has never met (i.e my little cousin or my cousins wife who is very sweet looking). It sounds very very dramatic, that is why it is so overwhelming.

 

Along with this all, I have confronted her many times about the situation. My question would be 'how would this work? How?'. Her answer: "I don't know and i don't care. I am living for the moment and all I know is that I really like you. We are better than this religion crap". She has literally turned her and I into a couple, even though she accepts we are not in a relationship. It is exceedingly fantasical.

 

It is very possible that the girl does not have any disorder. However, the actions are incredibly intense for someone who has spoken to me for around 3months, especially as those emotions were displayed in the first month.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Butlerist

[bluefeather]

Sounds like she's love-bombing you. And when you say that you feel withdrawal, that confirms it.

[scooby-philly]

Adding in to the conversation only because people seem to be focusing just on the behavior and possible personality profile/traits and not what may be causing it.

 

It's true - she could be "in love with the idea of love". She could also just be looking for a "decent guy" after her ex-husband's abuse. She could also just looking for a re-bound. Any of those situations should make you pause..... but...

 

The bigger question is whether she's in "religious recovery" and/or recovering from "parental neglect". I see both of these trends so often now in women 25-40. On the one hand (and I'm assuming you're in the US or another "western" country".....she's from a religious family and probably doesn't fit in from what you describe. Very often immigrant families will cling strongly to religious beliefs when they change cultures/countries if the differences appear SO extreme to them. (And that's not an insult - it's been studied). So....she probably went the satisfy mom/dad route with that marriage and ended up hurt.

 

And/or she could be recovering from (or in fact still suffering from) parental neglect. This happens for a variety of reasons - parents are addicts (probably not in this case) parents are ashamed of their "lifestyle" and shut themselves in, overly religious people can withdraw from the world and not focus on raising their kids, a lot of parents today it's workaholism. Kids need praise, boundaries, affections, the safety of testing boundaries, etc. In her case she could have had no praise or support as a kid and now is a fully functioning adult with major issues.

 

Or, it could be both. Again, not meant as a bash, but I see so many "religious" people ignore basic childhood development in search of "holiness" or "salvation".

 

Regardless of the underlying cause, you're dealing with and seeing the symptoms. I bring all of this up thought b/c people sometimes develop very keen senses of what's wrong with them but either can't change or don't know how to (or don't have the inner or financial resources to). But they can play act for a short while.

 

If you really don't see a future with her I'd stop right now. She could be overly "nice" now...but in 2 weeks or 2 months could turn into the wicked witch..

 

Two finals points - connecting the last point above - a lot of people are good at the first few weeks of a relationship - particularly masking traits like anger, frustration, self-centerdness, etc.....but eventually they bleed out as it's all a game. I date a woman who was all lovey dovey for 3 weeks....but slowly faded out by 3 months and never was affectionate, kind, or unselfish. Watch for that if you stick around for what ever reason.

 

 

Last point - if you stick around.....do you meet even her "western" friends or people she knows but really probably don't meet her family? If she just needs a rebound or wants to rebel, she'll keep you on the side and you won't meet anyone. Dated a woman who was on the hunt for a re-bound....took a while to get physical....but turned out to be hot. Fast forward a few weeks....turns out I wanted a relationship and she didn't....took me a while to piece it all together....but I was just a booty call. I look back fondly on it.....but I wanted a relationship and she didn't so i proudly walked away. Remember - if you don't meet anyone....there's a reason.

[Downtown]

I felt something was off too but couldn't quite nail it. Guess I have some research to do as well on personality disorders.

HorseLuck, a very good place to start reading -- right here on LoveShack -- is Salparadise's 3/11/16 post. Sal provides an insightful and concise description of what it's like to live with a BPDer spouse. It's based on his 23 years of experiences with his exW.