Should we end this love-hate abusive LDR

[Eder]

OK, so this is my first post and I really have doubts about sharing this stuff with anybody. Looong story short(er):

For the last 6 years I've been in a love-hate relationship with the girl. We share a lot of things - passions, hobbies and in a way our professional life. We also have other thing in common - we were both abused in our childhood: she by her mother and stepfather and me by my school colleagues and neglecting father. Due to this I always was kind of a loner and introvert, and lived my life mostly inside my head - this is actually my first serious relationship and I am 29. When we first met in 2010 we really fell for each other and spent a magical time together, but soon after I had to move to another country for almost a year and we saw each other only for a month total during that time, although we skyped and talked everyday.

What I did not tell my girlfriend was that I had some issues with pornography (watched it since I was 12 as another way of escaping reality, I guess) which continued through our relationship without her knowledge. In the beginning I thought that I will not need porn any more since I am with her and she is the girl of my dreams. The long-distance relationship proved me wrong. I have not told her about this because even without it she was quite insecure and suspicious, which led to many fights throughout our relationship, some of them really ugly, with verbal and physical abuse from both sides. The reasons were always the same - either I glanced at another woman in her presence (and I mean a 0.5 s glance, not staring at someone) or spent "too much" time with other girls (e.g. coworkers during work time and before that colleagues during classes). She has forced me to end the relationships with any of my female friend that she considered attractive. I have tried to understand that her behavior was influenced by her own traumatic past and tried to cope with it.

Regardless of this we were quite a strong team, helping each other with our careers and supporting each other through some hard times we both had. Two years ago my girl had to move to another city (we were living together for 1,5 year at that point) 200 miles from mine and although we saw each other every weekend, after a while I returned to watching porn during her absences. I also had a short crush for one of my students during that period (nothing happened outside my head). I felt really guilty about all of this and decided that if we want to have any future together (which I wanted) I need to come clean with her. I told her about everything this February. After a series of long and emotional discussions we have both decided to seek some psychological guidance - me for the porn issues and she for trauma of being lied to for almost 6 years. My therapy took around 6 months and mostly focused on issues other than pornography (mostly childhood problems) - but treated these problems too as a result.

We have also tried to take some counseling together but with little to no success. Unfortunately the last ten months were full of abuses (verbal and sometimes physical) that I have experienced from my girlfriend, with short periods of reconciliation in between. She has become even more controlling, checking my computer, emails and FB account and forcing me to stop teaching, going to gym if there are any girls around etc.

Two weeks ago I was supposed to spend a romantic week with her as I attended a conference in her city, but the second day she threw me out of her apartment after publicly calling me a dickhead while we were on a date in a fancy restaurant. Her reason was that after being asked by her if there were any pretty girls participating in this conference I admitted that there in fact was one that I found attractive (of course nothing happened between us and I barely noticed her). After I moved my stuff to the hotel and sleep there for one night I actually spent the next two days with my gf, trying to reconcile and discussing the possibility of peaceful breakup. On the fourth day of conference there was some after-hours integration meeting planned and I was really nervous about it. I was afraid that my gf will force me to stay home again or will come with me and humiliate me in front of my professional colleagues. When we met that day we quickly started to argue about it in a nasty way as she started to accuse me that I want to go there to meet with "this b*tch that I mentioned". When I said that after my gf kicked me I wished that I would meet this girl from the conference just to get back on my gf she started to cry. At that point I told her that I didn't want us to hurt each other any more and that our relationship was over and I left her. On my way to hotel I have started to realize that this whole argument was fueled by my fears and tried to call my gf to apologize and convince her to come with me, but she was devastated and didn't want to hear me. I should have return to her, but instead I went to this meeting thinking that my relationship is really over. But after a while I have started to have second thoughts about it - that it was all a huge mistake on my part and that I don't want it to end, and especially not this way - as she really thought that I left her for some other girl that night and it was really hurtful for her. I have tried to call my gf a few times, wrote the long email explaining how I felt and that there never was any "other girl", and the next day came to her with flowers and promised never to leave her like this again. We spent a really nice weekend together and I returned home.

I have written all this because I really don't know what to do anymore. I guess that I have expected that when I apologize to her she will also think about what she did to me and our relationship by humiliating me on public and kicking me out, but none of that ever happened. Once again she sees me as the "bad guy" of the relationship and refuses to take any responsibility. I asked her to promise me that she will treat me good if I decide to come to her (exactly what I have promised her) and she says that I have no right to demand such things because it was her who was hurt by me. The thing is - I miss her, I think I love her and that she is the one even after all the things we did to each other, but I don't want to hurt her or be hurt by her anymore.

Sorry for the enormous post, but I feel that I really suck in this whole relationship thing and need an advice. Do you think there is any chance that this relationship could work? Is there anything that I could do?

[mikeylo]

Should you break up : yes. Because you playing with her fears. Does she play with your insecurities or fears ? She is better than you.

[salparadise]

We also have other thing in common - we were both abused in our childhood: she by her mother and stepfather and me by my school colleagues and neglecting father.

 

You are attaching through via dysfunction. It's dominating your relational dynamics to the degree that it's impossible to see any other possibility.

 

I apologize to her she will also think about what she did to me and our relationship by humiliating me on public and kicking me out, but none of that ever happened. Once again she sees me as the "bad guy" of the relationship and refuses to take any responsibility.

 

This is not surprising at all. She's only seeing things from one perspective––that of her needs being met. There is no introspection. She hurts; it's your fault. No other possibility exists because her protective mechanisms prevent her from realizing that she could be imperfect, wrong, dysfunctional, etc. You are both the object and source of her feelings, despite the fact that it's all generated internally.

 

I asked her to promise me that she will treat me good if I decide to come to her (exactly what I have promised her) and she says that I have no right to demand such things because it was her who was hurt by me.

 

Yup. It's like looking at you through a little tube and believing that what she sees is the entire cause of how she feels, all that's wrong in the world, and that's all there is.

 

The thing is - I miss her, I think I love her and that she is the one even after all the things we did to each other, but I don't want to hurt her or be hurt by her anymore.

 

Sorry for the enormous post, but I feel that I really suck in this whole relationship thing and need an advice. Do you think there is any chance that this relationship could work? Is there anything that I could do?

 

This relationship will not be different in the future than is has been in the past. The dynamics aren't going to change. It's like wishing for the sun to rise in the west from now on. No matter how much you wish, it ain't gonna happen.

 

Your naivety is revealed in the statement, "I asked her to promise me that she will treat me good..." She could promise anything, but the key is that she has no ability to control her emotions. She only reacts to them, and you are the object upon which she focuses all of her jealously, rage, fear, hope, and resentment. She can't even contemplate that she's partly responsible for the conflict, much less change how she feels and behaves. This is something you have to realize and accept.

 

Your choices are simple, a) stay and continue exactly as it has been, or b) break the cycle of dysfunction by moving on and finding someone with whom you can develop a loving, conflict-free relationship. Stay in counseling/therapy––very important.

 

Read this post and see if any of it seems to fit your relationship/situation, and if it does then read the rest of the thread, and also this thread.

Edited December 10, 2016 by salparadise

[Eder]

The's only seeing things from one perspective––that of her needs being met. There is no introspection. She hurts; it's your fault. No other possibility exists because her protective mechanisms prevent her from realizing that she could be imperfect, wrong, dysfunctional, etc. You are both the object and source of her feelings, despite the fact that it's all generated internally.

 

The question is - is there any possibility that the therapy can influence that? She has recently changed her therapist and the new one seems to have helped her so far, making her see the bigger picture etc. She is also working hard to have more control over her emotions and behaviors as she acknowledge that it is an issue for her.

 

Read this post and see if any of it seems to fit your relationship/situation, and if it does then read the rest of the thread, and also this thread.

 

She might have some traits of borderline personality, but not the full syndrome. She has some very strong beliefs and plans that she is attached to and does not mirror other people. Plus the sexual promiscuity that is generally associated with bps is definitely not her thing.

[Downtown]

Eder, I agree with Sal that you're describing red flags for BPD behaviors. Because Sal has done an excellent job above in explaining the basics, I will try to avoid repeating what he's already covered. Instead, I will try to fill in around the edges so you understand the BPD warning signs well enough to decide -- for yourself -- whether they seem to apply to your GF.

 

She might have some traits of borderline personality, but not the full syndrome.

Most people having full-blown BPD don't have "the full syndrome," as you say. A person can satisfy 100% of the diagnostic criteria for full-blown BPD by exhibiting only 5 of the 9 defining behavioral traits.

 

Moreover, for purposes of deciding whether she is a good marriage candidate, it really does not matter whether she meets that threshold test of exhibiting five traits at a strong and persistent level. Significantly, a person satisfying 70% or 80% of the diagnostic threshold likely is nearly as difficult to live with as one satisfying 100%.

 

I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your GF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot -- especially after you've been dating her for six years -- because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as irrational jealousy, controlling actions, and rapid event-triggered mood flips.

 

She is also working hard to have more control over her emotions and behaviors as she acknowledge that it is an issue for her.

Although the DSM-5 lists nine defining traits for BPD, the key trait is the inability to regulate one's own emotions. Indeed, this trait is so central to BPD behavior that a large segment of the psychiatric profession has been lobbying for two decades to change the name of this disorder to "Emotional Regulation Disorder."

 

Moreover, the other behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational jealousy, verbal and physical abuse, inability to trust you, controlling behavior, temper tantrums, impulsiveness, black-white thinking, always being "The Victim," and rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you) -- are classic warning signs for BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting your GF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it (i.e., a sub-threshold level of BPD traits).

 

She has some very strong beliefs and plans that she is attached to.

It is common for BPDers (those with strong and persistent traits) to remain attached to certain beliefs and plans. Indeed, many BPDers are so high functioning that they make excellent physicians, teachers, social workers, and psychologists. Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana, for example, both held onto strong beliefs and life plans. And both exhibited full-blown BPD if their biographers are correct.

 

Most BPDers are high functioning folks who generally get along fine with casual friends, business associates, and clients. The reason is that none of those people have drawn close enough to pose a threat to the BPDer's two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. There is no close R/S that can be abandoned and no intimacy to trigger the suffocating feeling of engulfment.

 

Plus the sexual promiscuity that is generally associated with bpd is definitely not her thing.

Sexual promiscuity is a hallmark of Histrionic PD, not BPD. I tend to think of HPD as a sub-element of Narcissistic PD because the psychiatric community likely will consolidate HPD into NPD in the next edition of the DSM.

 

Granted, BPDers likely are more promiscuous than the general public because the lack of impulse control is one of BPD's nine defining traits. That impulsiveness, however, is more likely to be exhibited as binge eating, spending sprees, recreational drugs, excess gambling, and other excessive behaviors than as sexual promiscuity. My BPDer exW, for example, was very impulsive but not sexually promiscuous.

 

We were both abused in our childhood: she by her mother and stepfather and me by my school colleagues and neglecting father.

Most abused children do not develop BPD. That abuse, however, greatly raises the risk for their doing so. Hence, a recent large-scale study found that 70% of the BPDers reported they had been abused or abandoned in childhood.

 

The last ten months were full of abuses (verbal and sometimes physical) that I have experienced from my girlfriend, with short periods of reconciliation in between.

One of the nine defining traits for BPD is "Inappropriate, intense anger or problems controlling anger." If your GF really is a BPDer, she carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that triggers a release of anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- oftentimes in only ten seconds.

 

For these reasons, the physical abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at 50% of Batterers are BPDers. Similarly, a 2008 study and a 2012 study find a strong association between violence and BPD.

 

She was quite insecure and suspicious, which led to many fights throughout our relationship....

If she is a BPDer, her greatest fear is abandonment. Moreover, because a BPDer is emotionally unstable, she has never learned to trust herself. Until she accomplishes that, she will be incapable of trusting her partner for any extended period.

 

The reasons were always the same - either I glanced at another woman in her presence (and I mean a 0.5 s glance, not staring at someone) or spent "too much" time with other girls.

If she has a great fear of abandonment, she will be super-sensitive to any signs of it (real or imagined). My BPDer exW, for example, would start to feel threatened when I would start walking a few steps in front of her on the sidewalk. And, as with your GF, my exW would become angry if she saw me looking at an attractive woman for 3/4 of a second instead of a half second. Similarly, sudden unplanned changes in your schedule will have a threatening effect on a BPDer.

 

Because a BPDer never developed a strong sense of "object constancy," she does not realize that other people remain essentially unchanged from day to day. That is, you keep having to win her (short lived) trust and to keep proving your love from day to day. The result is that BPDers typically administer $h*t tests very frequently to see if you are still loyal.

 

She started to accuse me that I want to go there to meet with "this b*tch that I mentioned."

Her perception of an attractive stranger as "this b*tch" seems to be an example of black-white thinking. Like young children, BPDers are too emotionally immature to be able to handle strong conflicting feelings simultaneously. BPDers therefore tend to categorize everyone as "all good" (white) or "all bad" (black). And they will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in less than a minute -- based solely on a minor comment or infraction (real or imagined). In this way, they don't have to deal with ambiguities, strong conflicting feelings, uncertainties, or other gray areas of interpersonal relationships.

 

I don't want to hurt her or be hurt by her anymore.

If she actually is a BPDer, it is impossible for you to avoid hurting her. If you draw close to assure her of your love and devotion, you will trigger her great fear of engulfment -- a suffocating feeling of being controlled and losing herself inside your strong personality.

 

Yet, if you back away, you will trigger her great fear of abandonment. And you can forget about trying to find the Goldilocks position between "too close" and "too far away." It simply does not exist. I know only because I wasted 15 years hunting for it.

 

The question is - is there any possibility that the therapy can influence that?

Yes, it is possible even if it is determined that your GF exhibits strong and persistent BPD traits. Most major cities offer excellent BPD treatment programs (e.g., DBT and CBT) that teach BPDers how to learn the basic emotional skills they had no opportunity to learn in childhood. But, sadly, it is rare for a BPDer to have sufficient self awareness and ego strength to remain in therapy long enough to make a real difference.

 

She has recently changed her therapist and the new one seems to have helped her so far, making her see the bigger picture etc.

If your GF actually is a BPDer, it likely would take at least several years for her to substantially improve her own behavior. If she does remain in therapy -- as my exW did for 15 years -- the problem then becomes figuring out whether the improvements you are seeing are truly lasting.

 

Like many smokers who are always seen quitting and throwing away the pack every two months, an emotionally unstable woman will often be seen greatly improving. At issue, then, is whether that improvement is lasting or, rather, simply another temporary upswing. Remember, even a roller coaster moves upward half the time.

[salparadise]

As Downtown said, don't focus on whether or not a diagnosis is appropriate, focus on whether the characteristic behaviors are issues in your relationship. Most BPD people don't get an actual diagnosis, and often will be diagnosed with something much less extreme that the insurance doesn't mind paying for treatment of, such as an anxiety disorder, etc. Diagnoses don't matter; behaviors do.

 

The question is - is there any possibility that the therapy can influence that? She has recently changed her therapist and the new one seems to have helped her so far, making her see the bigger picture etc. She is also working hard to have more control over her emotions and behaviors as she acknowledge that it is an issue for her.

 

Influence? Yes. For BPD people it's mostly a matter of teaching them more socially acceptable coping strategies and to suppress the knee-jerk behaviors that are characteristic of the disorder and destructive to relationships. The disorder itself is deeply ingrained into the personality and persistent. It's not going away.

 

 

She might have some traits of borderline personality, but not the full syndrome. She has some very strong beliefs and plans that she is attached to and does not mirror other people. Plus the sexual promiscuity that is generally associated with bps is definitely not her thing.

 

Yes, as Downtown said, and I'll reiterate, it doesn't matter if it's full syndrome. What matters is, do these tendencies (whether mild or more extreme) define your relationship and make it impossible to find fulfillment, happiness, satisfaction with this person because of them. That's your test––you aren't being asked for a thumbs up or down on the clinical diagnosis.

 

My ex also did not exhibit promiscuity. That is not a requirement. It's the lack of emotional regulation and the directing of these extreme feelings onto the intimate partner that is central to the dysfunction in close, intimate relationships.

 

Be realistic about what it is (sans a label), and be realistic about what you're only wishing for as opposed to what is actually possible.

[Eder]

Downtown, thank you for a very detailed response. Many of the examples that you gave are actually quite fitting and describe her disturbingly well, although I never saw her showing fear of engulfment or any kind of excessive behavior. The fact is that I was able to cope with her behaviors for most of the time, hoping that the therapy and time can change things for the better. I still think that we just might not be "right" for each other, as my porn and lying issues were the fuel for her jealousy and suspicions - and she could omit that with some other, more "straightforward" guy without such problems. But this is just another argument to consider when thinking about ending this relationship.

Salparadise - you also helped me a lot, thank you for your insight. I still have a lot to think about, but I guess I am closer to making the final decision than I ever was.