His ex

[CupCakess]

There is a very big difference between being made aware of a serious threat to the health, safety, or financial future of a shared child and personal conversations, sharing details of day to day life, etc. Especially when the "child" is grown and should be navigating his life and parental relationships as an independent, fully functioning, adult.

 

I don't think it's unrealistic or unreasonable to expect a person who has ended a relationship, no matter the duration, to actually end the relationship. Co-parenting is one thing, this is personal.

 

Dating is a time to discern compatibility and suitability as long term partners. One naturally begins to think of the future. Looking at the situation, staying in a relationship with this man would mean accepting his close ties to another woman (most of the time we'd call his relationship with his ex an EA) and also involves a loss of personal privacy and being what basically amounts to a 2nd class citizen because this man and his ex have failed to detach.

 

You're right. It's not about OP and it never will be. It's about this guy and his ex and it likely always will be.

 

OP, throw this fish back and find one that isn't still so ridiculously attached to an ex.

 

Not really, they have every right to get along. Just because they don't want to be with each other, doesn't mean they have to stop being friends. Not all break-ups are the same, and thus can't be judged the same way. Maybe they just happen to get along really well, and want to be friends, or maybe they were best friends before that. It is rare, but not uncommon.

 

She is his family. Maybe not as a lover, but just as a friend and co-parent. I mentioend the 2 decade relationship between them, because it does matter. You are not going to cut out someone from your life, just because it seems weird to other people. Maybe they decided to amicabily end their relationship, and move on as friends, so why judge?

 

And also, the focus on the child as the problem, as if it would be bad for the guy to be involved in his son/daughter's life as a bad thing is pretty absurd. All the bratty nature of the conversation seems more likely to be the OP's own bias regarding the situation, than the actual child being as bad as she makes it seem. In all probability, the child has a good stable family situation and gets along well with his parents (which is good), which is being taken out of context by a resentful OP.

Edited December 5, 2016 by CupCakess

[bachdude]

Personally, I think the way they decide to conduct the dynamic of the three of them is entirely their business. The exs have had the task of raising a kid together for the last 22 years and it looks as though they have done the best job they know how given the situation. I don't feel comfortable sitting on my high horse to judge them. There is no ideal way to do it.

 

 

While the OP is certainly entitled to not like it or disagree with how they have chosen to raise their son, I think it is a boundary issue on her part if she were to try to change it.

 

 

She either needs to accept it or move on.

[smackie9]

 

 

And they were never married.

 

Doesn't matter if they walked down the isle or not. They lived together raising a child, that is common law which is the equivalent of being married.

 

When you date someone that has kids, the kids and the ex all come as a package deal.

 

I see nothing wrong with all of them meeting a couple times a month for coffee...why not? Just because they are no longer together doesn't mean they should be cut off from each other.

 

You hate their dynamic, you already have stated your concerns, asked for boundaries, and it ain't happening. There is a simple solution to this. Breakup.

[Gaeta]

I am reading between the lines you are younger and not a parent. You probably also just started dating recently? It's common for non-parents to misinterpret divorced parents good terms as being something dangerous.

 

My ex and I had a very dysfunctional marriage but were proud we were able to continue being parents together after our divorce.

 

We attended our daughter every events together as parents even years after our divorce well into her adulthood years. When she became an adult we moved her to her new apartment together, we painted it together, when she broke her arm we waited through the surgery together, we consult each other for Xmas gifts, birthday gifts, and him and I gave each other news regularly on his mom and my parents. Even years after our divorce he still visited my parents once a year.

 

His 2nd wife never gave us any trouble. He would invite her to come along sometimes she did, some times she didn't. She understood as she was a mother and was in excellent term with her ex.

 

If he had not died suddenly 3 years ago I know him and I would have walked our daughter down the aisle together, we would have helped her buy her first house together and we would have welcomed our first grand child together.

 

Whether your child is 2-22-32 and even 50 like me, divorced parents remain a family forever.

 

My ex-boyfriend had a 15 year old and a 21 year old. He was in constant contact with his ex-wife concerning school, sports, doctors appointment, dentist appointments, name it. Even once a week he would pick up his elderly ex-mother-in-law and took her to grocery store. I remember thinking wow!! what a beautiful human being!

[bachdude]

I am reading between the lines you are younger and not a parent. You probably also just started dating recently? It's common for non-parents to misinterpret divorced parents good terms as being something dangerous.

 

My ex and I had a very dysfunctional marriage but were proud we were able to continue being parents together after our divorce.

 

We attended our daughter every events together as parents even years after our divorce well into her adulthood years. When she became an adult we moved her to her new apartment together, we painted it together, when she broke her arm we waited through the surgery together, we consult each other for Xmas gifts, birthday gifts, and him and I gave each other news regularly on his mom and my parents. Even years after our divorce he still visited my parents once a year.

 

His 2nd wife never gave us any trouble. He would invite her to come along sometimes she did, some times she didn't. She understood as she was a mother and was in excellent term with her ex.

 

If he had not died suddenly 3 years ago I know him and I would have walked our daughter down the aisle together, we would have helped her buy her first house together and we would have welcomed our first grand child together.

 

Whether your child is 2-22-32 and even 50 like me, divorced parents remain a family forever.

 

My ex-boyfriend had a 15 year old and a 21 year old. He was in constant contact with his ex-wife concerning school, sports, doctors appointment, dentist appointments, name it. Even once a week he would pick up his elderly ex-mother-in-law and took her to grocery store. I remember thinking wow!! what a beautiful human being!

 

 

Great post, Gaeta!

[Phantomlady]

Lots of assumptions flying everywhere.

For the record, this man is 50 and I am 45.

I was married for close to ten years and I share a daughter with my ex husband.

My ex and I do not behave like this.We are polite with one another and we work out our own problems with our daughter each in our own terms.

He does not need to text me if he can't get a hold of my daughter or I texting him over trivial matters, we don't bring each other into any arguments we might have with our daughter, nor do we sit there all acting immature and fight together and yell and scream or gossip about one another or pretend to be friends and go out for coffee.

 

We are adults about it and work out our own problems with our daughter on our own terms without needing to drag each other into it.

This man does not hear a peep from my ex, why? because my ex lives his life and I live mine and we don't pull the crap that he and his ex do.

As for stable family relationships on the child's part of these two?

I could go on in to great detail how that is completely wrong and how the child is and how they control and manipulate but also how the ex does the exact same thing! Wonder where they learnt that behaviour from??

 

I could also go into great length at how much more there is to this picture than I have spoke about and that the examples I have given are only the tip of the iceberg, the word dysfunction doesn't even cover it.

And again assumptions on what they're relationship was like or that they raised this child together.

All I can say is, part of me wishes I would tell you all about it, so you would get a clear picture and see how their story is so messed up it's not even funny, you have never heard anything like it.

As for now a days, it's more about control from the ex, and I sincerely mean that.

I won't say more than that,but thanks for your assumptions and judgements when you truly have no idea.

[Sunkissedpatio]

Yeah but the whole subject of the "child" being a brat is kind of biased if you ask me. I mean the OP is referring to him/her as a "child" or kid. It is more than evident that she is jelous os resents him.

 

She uses the word child to showcase that we are talking about an immature person (which in itself is an immature tactic), and yet we don't really have any proof that things are as bad as she claims they are. To me it seems that she resents the kid more than the ex, because 90% of the conversation steered on how the kid made things bad for her.

 

As far as we are concerned, the ex might have slight contact with him, and merely update each other on their mutual lives (which is reasonable), and the OP blows it out of proportion. Personally, nothing she mentioned seems strange for parents that get along, but it does seem she stresses on the tiny aspects of those examples, like the fact that the kid "manipulates them", disregarding the fact that this is common for a lot of kids from divorced couples. She certainly blames the kid rather than the mother for this, and is clearly resentfull of it.

 

 

First of all, it's a she.

 

Second of all, it's his child.

 

Thirdly, the reason she refers to her as child is because at 21 she acts like a child. All the stories she told about the daughter sounds like the daughter is fairly immature for her age.

 

This idea that family comes first, is your idea and but most adjusted people learn to balance. Anyone who says my kids will always come first (and to a certain degree it's understood that a kid will come first because if a a kid needs dad to spend the night helping her get her car that got a flat tire from the mall and he already had plans with girlfriend to go to an event then it's understandable he might need to postponed date with g/f to go attend to his daughter's emergency) but otherwise anyone who says that is basically saying my kid will say jump no matter the situation and no matter what my life looks like and I will say how high and abort anything I am doing in my personal life to cater to their every whim.

 

A person who does the latter doesn't know how to balance their life and is even actually doing their kid a disservice. You teach your child to not cross boundaries. That 21 year old is so spoiled so used to getting her way that she will carry that out into her relationships. This princess attitude and instigator of drama.

 

So no, kids don't ALWAYS come first. A person who knows how to balance his new life with his past can certainly share all the great things you share with your kids and make the sacrifices that you need to be there for them while also standing their ground when need be to have a balanced life.

 

The regular family coffees, all that fighting and asking one another what the other is doing with the daughter is highly inappropriate. He has 0 boundaries and clearly intends on keeping it that way.

 

Good luck making a new life of your own if you continue to do that. That kid will be out on her own in a few years' time (hopefully) and what he is going to continue getting together with the ex to recap on what is going on with the daughter? Or going to family outings with the ex while the daughter isn't in the picture?

 

Most women wouldn't stand for that. Sorry but that's highly unnecessary. They aren't a "family unit" they are broken up. Done. That family unit no longer exists. They are both parents and the both need to co-parent but that family unit is no more.

 

Or is it? Something fishy with that arrangement. The ex wants him back.

 

OP why did they break up? Who left whom?

Edited December 5, 2016 by Sunkissedpatio

[smackie9]

Lots of assumptions flying everywhere.

For the record, this man is 50 and I am 45.

I was married for close to ten years and I share a daughter with my ex husband.

My ex and I do not behave like this.We are polite with one another and we work out our own problems with our daughter each in our own terms.

He does not need to text me if he can't get a hold of my daughter or I texting him over trivial matters, we don't bring each other into any arguments we might have with our daughter, nor do we sit there all acting immature and fight together and yell and scream or gossip about one another or pretend to be friends and go out for coffee.

 

We are adults about it and work out our own problems with our daughter on our own terms without needing to drag each other into it.

This man does not hear a peep from my ex, why? because my ex lives his life and I live mine and we don't pull the crap that he and his ex do.

As for stable family relationships on the child's part of these two?

I could go on in to great detail how that is completely wrong and how the child is and how they control and manipulate but also how the ex does the exact same thing! Wonder where they learnt that behaviour from??

 

I could also go into great length at how much more there is to this picture than I have spoke about and that the examples I have given are only the tip of the iceberg, the word dysfunction doesn't even cover it.

And again assumptions on what they're relationship was like or that they raised this child together.

All I can say is, part of me wishes I would tell you all about it, so you would get a clear picture and see how their story is so messed up it's not even funny, you have never heard anything like it.

As for now a days, it's more about control from the ex, and I sincerely mean that.

I won't say more than that,but thanks for your assumptions and judgements when you truly have no idea.

We can only go by what information you give us.

 

I still stand by my posts. If this is so horrific for you to take...again, just breakup.

 

Even if you have 20 people on the internet agreeing with you....still won't change your situation with him. It is what it is. Right or wrong.

[Lizabigs]

I would be more apt to accept a man that is in good standing with his ex, them as friends, rather than hostile. If she accepts me, I would be OK with everyone being together for holidays and celebrations as long I was there too. I totally understand you don't stop being parents, and good communication is needed.

 

My issue would be the drama this kid creates between them. That I wouldn't tolerate.

 

It's possible over time everyone will move on and focus on other things. I guess at this point old habits are hard to break.

 

So I wouldn't date someone that had a bratty kid that caused all kinds of drama. The ex here isn't the issue.......

 

 

 

Also enjoy all of your advice. I am a long time lurker!

[Sunkissedpatio]

 

I could also go into great length at how much more there is to this picture than I have spoke about and that the examples I have given are only the tip of the iceberg, the word dysfunction doesn't even cover it.

And again assumptions on what they're relationship was like or that they raised this child together.

All I can say is, part of me wishes I would tell you all about it, so you would get a clear picture and see how their story is so messed up it's not even funny, you have never heard anything like it.

As for now a days, it's more about control from the ex, and I sincerely mean that.

I won't say more than that,but thanks for your assumptions and judgements when you truly have no idea.

 

Personally I don't think you need to share more, it's clear after you cited some examples what is going on here. The kid and the ex are master manipulators that at best are pulling on his guilt-ridden heart strings and he is too weak to draw a line, and at worst is fanning the flames of a romance that won't die.

 

Why did they split? Are you at liberty to say that?

Edited December 5, 2016 by Sunkissedpatio

[Gaeta]

Lots of assumptions flying everywhere.

For the record, this man is 50 and I am 45.

I was married for close to ten years and I share a daughter with my ex husband.

My ex and I do not behave like this.We are polite with one another and we work out our own problems with our daughter each in our own terms.

He does not need to text me if he can't get a hold of my daughter or I texting him over trivial matters, we don't bring each other into any arguments we might have with our daughter, nor do we sit there all acting immature and fight together and yell and scream or gossip about one another or pretend to be friends and go out for coffee.

 

We are adults about it and work out our own problems with our daughter on our own terms without needing to drag each other into it.

This man does not hear a peep from my ex, why? because my ex lives his life and I live mine and we don't pull the crap that he and his ex do.

As for stable family relationships on the child's part of these two?

I could go on in to great detail how that is completely wrong and how the child is and how they control and manipulate but also how the ex does the exact same thing! Wonder where they learnt that behaviour from??

 

I could also go into great length at how much more there is to this picture than I have spoke about and that the examples I have given are only the tip of the iceberg, the word dysfunction doesn't even cover it.

And again assumptions on what they're relationship was like or that they raised this child together.

All I can say is, part of me wishes I would tell you all about it, so you would get a clear picture and see how their story is so messed up it's not even funny, you have never heard anything like it.

As for now a days, it's more about control from the ex, and I sincerely mean that.

I won't say more than that,but thanks for your assumptions and judgements when you truly have no idea.

 

Next time post your age and put us into context that way there will be less assumptions.

 

If it is worse than what you have exposed on your original post, if you cannot accept their dynamic, if he has no intention of changing this dynamic for you, than what's left? You need to move on to someone better suited for you.

 

You are not there at the coffee with them, you are not part of their bickering, you are not cc on their exchange of texts. It's between them. What exactly is your concern?

 

How long have you been dating?

[Sunkissedpatio]

 

Great men, always make kids their priority. Family always comes first.

 

No family doesn't always come first actually, you need to use your judgment. I love my family but I would never say to a man your opinions are fine and your needs are fine but family always comes first at any cost. Sometimes you need to draw the line with family to preserve your own family unit (meaning partner and kids)

[Sunkissedpatio]

Next time post your age and put us into context that way there will be less assumptions.

 

 

Why? Her age is irrelevant! And next time people can just ask what they need to know before they jump to conclusions.

 

Some posters made huge assumptions throughout no matter what the OP shared. So no, she doesn't have to share more to curb some people's projection of their own issues on the matter.

 

It happens all the time on this forum people take things way out of context on very little information shared to project their own agenda.

[bachdude]

I'm at a loss as to why you even need input when the situation is so horrible as you describe.

[bachdude]

Why? Her age is irrelevant! And next time people can just ask what they need to know before they jump to conclusions.

 

Some posters made huge assumptions throughout no matter what the OP shared. So no, she doesn't have to share more to curb some people's projection of their own issues on the matter.

 

It happens all the time on this forum people take things way out of context on very little information shared to project their own agenda.

 

 

No one's above it, sunkissedpatio, including you.

[CupCakess]

This idea that family comes first, is your idea and but most adjusted people learn to balance. Anyone who says my kids will always come first (and to a certain degree it's understood that a kid will come first because if a a kid needs dad to spend the night helping her get her car that got a flat tire from the mall and he already had plans with girlfriend to go to an event then it's understandable he might need to postponed date with g/f to go attend to his daughter's emergency) but otherwise anyone who says that is basically saying my kid will say jump no matter the situation and no matter what my life looks like and I will say how high and abort anything I am doing in my personal life to cater to their every whim.

 

Yes, its called being a parent. Its called putting your family before your personal life. And to some extent you also do that for brothers, sisters, nephews, husbands/wives, in-laws, etc. The man has a close relationship with his daughter and spends a lot of time with her, that isn't bad just because you don't approve.

 

And saying it is "my opinion" is an outwright lie.

 

However the OP hasn't mentioned what that "manipulation" is, so you are assuming its probably meaningless stuff, and the child is just a "brat" because the OP says so.

 

She merely state that his ex is "manipulative", and that is it. Maybe the ex is truly a wicked person. Maybe she did nothing wrong and the OP is merely over-reacting.

 

A person who does the latter doesn't know how to balance their life and is even actually doing their kid a disservice. You teach your child to not cross boundaries. That 21 year old is so spoiled so used to getting her way that she will carry that out into her relationships. This princess attitude and instigator of drama.

 

So no, kids don't ALWAYS come first. A person who knows how to balance his new life with his past can certainly share all the great things you share with your kids and make the sacrifices that you need to be there for them while also standing their ground when need be to have a balanced life.

The regular family coffees, all that fighting and asking one another what the other is doing with the daughter is highly inappropriate. He has 0 boundaries and clearly intends on keeping it that way.

 

No it isn't innappropiate. Parents and children fight, its normal. And the regular family coffee's, don't have anything to do.

 

The OP isn't married to this man. As far as we know (given the little info she has provided), she may very well just be some woman he hooks up with. So why should he not see the people he considers family to please someone who might not be a serious relationship to him?

 

You can make an argument if the OP was married or engaged to this man, as to why she is not included in certain family outings. As far as we are concerned, she isn't family to him, just a woman he is dating.

 

Good luck making a new life of your own if you continue to do that. That kid will be out on her own in a few years' time (hopefully) and what he is going to continue getting together with the ex to recap on what is going on with the daughter? Or going to family outings with the ex while the daughter isn't in the picture?

 

Most women wouldn't stand for that. Sorry but that's highly unnecessary. They aren't a "family unit" they are broken up. Done. That family unit no longer exists. They are both parents and the both need to co-parent but that family unit is no more.

 

The fact that they are no longer lovers, doesn't mean his ex is not family to him. She is the mother of his child. And if they are in good terms, it is perfectly normal to still consider each other family.

[Gaeta]

Why? Her age is irrelevant! And next time people can just ask what they need to know before they jump to conclusions.

 

Some posters made huge assumptions throughout no matter what the OP shared. So no, she doesn't have to share more to curb some people's projection of their own issues on the matter.

 

It happens all the time on this forum people take things way out of context on very little information shared to project their own agenda.

 

Yes, because it happens all the time it's better to put your age and put people in context.

 

To me, she sounded like a non-parent and younger. I said that and I asked for her to confirm.

[Sunkissedpatio]

No one's above it, sunkissedpatio, including you.

 

Of course, but I didn't continue to enforce my assumptions on her after she explained herself. I clearly stated I changed my mind upon revelation of more details.

 

That's the difference.

[CupCakess]

No family doesn't always come first actually, you need to use your judgment. I love my family but I would never say to a man your opinions are fine and your needs are fine but family always comes first at any cost. Sometimes you need to draw the line with family to preserve your own family unit (meaning partner and kids)

 

This statement doesn't really make sense. Your family unit would be your kid.

 

The OP is not his family unit. As far as we are concerned, she might be someone he is dating, nothing more.

[Sunkissedpatio]

@CupCakes we fundamentally disagree.

 

And yes, it is your opinion that in every single instance family MUST come first. Some people balance what comes first depending on what the situation calls for.

 

It is my opinion that what the OP describes is inappropriate behaviour between her partner and the ex.

[CupCakess]

@CupCakes we fundamentally disagree.

 

And yes, it is your opinion that in every single instance family MUST come first. Some people balance what comes first depending on what the situation calls for.

 

It is my opinion that what the OP describes is inappropriate behaviour between her partner and the ex.

 

I understand that, but the OP hasn't explained anything at all. She merely stated:"the child is a brat, the ex is manipulative"

 

That isn't an explanation. Its just her statement of what she thinks of both of them.

[kendahke]

OP clearly doesn't have that intimate of a relationship if by now, he can't be arsed to change his familial tack in order to keep her and this relationship around and viable.

 

Her boyfriend sounds like he's letting her know where she is placed on his priority list and it isn't above his ex and his daughter at this point in time. That may never change, even if he does remarry. I'm sure that's an uncomfortable conclusion to arrive at when one is with someone who isn't equal to the interest (and God knows I've been there), but nonetheless, OP, it doesn't serve you to live in an alternate universe (read: live a lie) because you're machining a particular outcome with a particular man.

 

Now, you can either accept this dynamic... or bounce--that is what YOU have the power to do in this situation.

 

I suggest you save yourself a whole lot of unnecessary angst and just move on to someone whose life isn't quite so messy.

Edited December 5, 2016 by kendahke

[Phantomlady]

Thank you to all who took the time to reply and even more thanks to the ones who truly understood where I was coming from, your support means a great deal.

I'm wasn't going to add anymore detail on this post but I will add one last bit, only because SunkissedPatio asked and I appreciate everything she has written in this post and how she has tried to see where I was coming from.

 

Why did they break up in the first place and who broke up with whom.

 

She broke up with him. They were together a few years and she was sleeping around with anyone and everyone behind his back and was lying about it.

She eventually told him that she was done and left without looking back and went onto another man. She also left him with the majority of raising their child as she ran around.

 

There you go, hun , but if anything, it just reinforces for me that this man does not have much of a back bone and similar control and manipulations are now going on with their child.

I have a very strong feeling that things won't work out with he and I because of that. (Him not having a back bone).

 

Thank you for trying to see where I was coming from and not criticising me or throwing assumptions like crazy at me.

[Sunkissedpatio]

Bingo! Thanks for sharing more Phantomlady.

 

He is 100% still hooked line and sinker and he definitely lacks a backbone. Why? Because she is playing him like an accordion and he is right in there taking the crumbs from all sides because he chooses.

 

He's not ready for a new relationship. You were smart to question this, you are the third wheel in his unfinished business. Im sorry...

 

Ugh it boils my blood the things people try to pass off as being a "responsible human being.":mad:

[Gaeta]

I have asked twice how long you have been dating and never got an answer.

 

Also 11 people took time to express their opinion and only 1 understood you?

 

It's possible. That is how people feel when they come on here not to get opinion but only to justify their feelings.