Caught New BF on OLD

[Smokeshow]

What is OLD?

[NuevoYorko]

It's possible for these things to be vastly less confusing ...

[jen1447]

Glad you got it straightened out for now Peaches. Good luck going forward.

[kendahke]

What is OLD?

 

On Line Dating

[Miss Peach]

Glad you got it straightened out for now Peaches. Good luck going forward.

 

Thanks! The part that worries me the most is his need for external ego stroking which seems to be at the crux at why he's been doing the strip clubs, the bar, and OLD. It doesn't sound like he was ever physically cheating on anyone but I wonder if this is something he could overcome or satisfy. It's nice to know you're attractive or wanted but IMO a lot of this stuff needs to be built up from within. This is why I suggested the flirting arrangement but I wonder if it would just be a band aid over the real issue.

[BluesPower]

MsPeach...

 

You have to understand that some men are insecure. For someone as experienced and hot as you and Jen and a few others, a lot of men would be insecure.

 

Hell, I might be insecure. This guy I am guessing is several things: 1) a handsome guy, 2) decent at least at straight sex or you would not be with him, 3) a decent, possible relationship material or you would not be interested.

 

But he has been living the straight life all his life. Now he has found a beautiful sex goddess and it scares him. Does he let his feelings for you grow knowing that you could dump him at any time because he is vanilla? Even if you don't, what is you found a really great dom and went with him?

 

There a 1000 thoughts going through his head and his head is spinning.

 

If you continue to take your time with him you just might have well trained man on your hands at some point that you could be happy with.

 

I think you have to put yourself in his shoes and try to understand whey he might be so unsure of himself.

[jen1447]

Thanks! The part that worries me the most is his need for external ego stroking which seems to be at the crux at why he's been doing the strip clubs, the bar, and OLD. It doesn't sound like he was ever physically cheating on anyone but I wonder if this is something he could overcome or satisfy. It's nice to know you're attractive or wanted but IMO a lot of this stuff needs to be built up from within. This is why I suggested the flirting arrangement but I wonder if it would just be a band aid over the real issue.

 

That is kind of an odd spot. My first impulse would be to slap him into shape but I know you don't want to assume that role of "guardian of my man's self esteem" bc it reduces him to beta (lol the alpha/beta thread) and also you don't respond positively to a sub guy sexually. At least not right now, like full time. And yet you want a certain degree of ownership he may not be able to manage himself.

 

There is a certain type of FLR role where the woman calls the shots not by outward authority but by a more subtle constant tease game. So let's say that was your approach and mine was the more direct one ....if we were in a bar together interacting in front of them, you'd get your guy to respond how you want by teasing how much he'd like it if we got it on (looking back at him and smiling between makeout sesh etc.) and I'd have my guy in line by ordering him to stand by and wait for instructions. But we'd both achieve the same thing, see what I mean?

 

It's a thought anyway.

[NuevoYorko]

Thanks! The part that worries me the most is his need for external ego stroking which seems to be at the crux at why he's been doing the strip clubs, the bar, and OLD. It doesn't sound like he was ever physically cheating on anyone but I wonder if this is something he could overcome or satisfy. It's nice to know you're attractive or wanted but IMO a lot of this stuff needs to be built up from within.

 

Why would you choose a vanilla, somewhat insecure middle of the road guy who is already turning to strippers and the bar for sexual ego stroking - to adventure with you into the worlds of swinging and polyamory? I don't understand this choice. Why wouldn't he just construe the extra people involved in your sex life as more external boosts to his male ego? You haven't known this man for very long - please help me understand why you don't just look for one who knows the ropes?

[Miss Peach]

MsPeach...

 

You have to understand that some men are insecure. For someone as experienced and hot as you and Jen and a few others, a lot of men would be insecure.

 

Hell, I might be insecure. This guy I am guessing is several things: 1) a handsome guy, 2) decent at least at straight sex or you would not be with him, 3) a decent, possible relationship material or you would not be interested.

 

I do agree with some of this but it started before he met me. He has mentioned he has no idea how he got me when he sees me turn down so many guys. He's just a nerdy programming type of guy so not the handsome type. Luckily I like those types of guys.

 

I feel really comfortable and good around him, I enjoy his company, I like how affectionate he is and how he looks at me, I like how open I am with him and how I can be 100% myself. I can't say this with the majority of guys I meet.

 

That is kind of an odd spot. My first impulse would be to slap him into shape but I know you don't want to assume that role of "guardian of my man's self esteem" bc it reduces him to beta (lol the alpha/beta thread) and also you don't respond positively to a sub guy sexually. At least not right now, like full time. And yet you want a certain degree of ownership he may not be able to manage himself.

 

There is a certain type of FLR role where the woman calls the shots not by outward authority but by a more subtle constant tease game. So let's say that was your approach and mine was the more direct one ....if we were in a bar together interacting in front of them, you'd get your guy to respond how you want by teasing how much he'd like it if we got it on (looking back at him and smiling between makeout sesh etc.) and I'd have my guy in line by ordering him to stand by and wait for instructions. But we'd both achieve the same thing, see what I mean?

 

It's a thought anyway.

 

How would you slap him down? I've been finding myself ordering him around a bit more but yes I ultimately like some dominance in there sometimes. I am assertive at work and one of the guys so I can do it but often choose not to outside of work. I don't want the other extreme where I can't get some loving as has been the problem with a lot of people I know into doms. I've been trying to lead from behind in a way where I put it out there, make him want to know, and then ask him a lot of questions until everything is sorted out. It's been working well with him so far. But yeah... I don't want to tell him what to do but he obviously isn't getting some of the way the world works.

 

Why would you choose a vanilla, somewhat insecure middle of the road guy who is already turning to strippers and the bar for sexual ego stroking - to adventure with you into the worlds of swinging and polyamory? I don't understand this choice. Why wouldn't he just construe the extra people involved in your sex life as more external boosts to his male ego? You haven't known this man for very long - please help me understand why you don't just look for one who knows the ropes?

 

I see him needing ego stroking and he's needing to build confidence after a long marriage. I like him enough over all the other guys I've met I'm willing to let him fumble a little bit. I don't need swinging, poly, and other stuff that's been brought up here. I do need a solid, sweet guy who can communicate who wants to be there for me. He seems to be a guy like that.

 

He seems to be interested or curious in a lot of these topics. I'm not pushing him to do/try anything. I'm not trying to take a vanilla guy and convert him per se. He is open to moving to at least vanilla with a few toppings. He just has no idea how.

[BluesPower]

I do agree with some of this but it started before he met me. He has mentioned he has no idea how he got me when he sees me turn down so many guys. He's just a nerdy programming type of guy so not the handsome type. Luckily I like those types of guys.

 

I feel really comfortable and good around him, I enjoy his company, I like how affectionate he is and how he looks at me, I like how open I am with him and how I can be 100% myself. I can't say this with the majority of guys I meet.

 

This is a big deal and I think you realize it. I have been with some women where I was just so comfortable with them and they with me that it was amazing, just really amazing. And, I am not talking about sex, which was great, I am talking about taking a nap and holding each other as we fall asleep. The just holding each other while sleeping and even though you are asleep you "feel" each other holding each other while you are asleep.

 

Wow, that is kind of girly what I just wrote, odd.

 

Anyway being comfortable like that is a supper bid deal and you don't get it with everyone all the time.

[Redhead14]

What is OLD?

 

OLD = On Line Dating sites.

[jen1447]

How would you slap him down? I've been finding myself ordering him around a bit more but yes I ultimately like some dominance in there sometimes. I am assertive at work and one of the guys so I can do it but often choose not to outside of work. I don't want the other extreme where I can't get some loving as has been the problem with a lot of people I know into doms. I've been trying to lead from behind in a way where I put it out there, make him want to know, and then ask him a lot of questions until everything is sorted out. It's been working well with him so far. But yeah... I don't want to tell him what to do but he obviously isn't getting some of the way the world works.

 

Well I kinda mean I'd just put him in his place ("You'll do x-y-z, etc.") to position him for the outlook I need him to have, but I know that's not your style or preference. And it implies dominance. Tho I've actuallu done a lighter touch w my BF at the core ....he's had some esteem issues based on a previous romantic disaster (to put it lightly), and after I figured out what his psyche was I just bscly gave him a guarantee that I wasn't gonna do anything like that to him and all he had to do was throw in w me and I'd take care of him (guardian of the esteem thing), while catering to the dominance angle that works for both of us. (It was always explicit for me but more of a subtext for him he didn't realize consciously. Just a strange stroke of luck I suppose - birds of a feather who didn't realize it at first.)

 

Anyhow I don't know if that'd work for you ....? Or if you trust him enough just yet to make any guarantees like that.

[Miss Peach]

Well I kinda mean I'd just put him in his place ("You'll do x-y-z, etc.") to position him for the outlook I need him to have, but I know that's not your style or preference. And it implies dominance. Tho I've actuallu done a lighter touch w my BF at the core ....

 

Anyhow I don't know if that'd work for you ....? Or if you trust him enough just yet to make any guarantees like that.

 

I've been finding myself getting a bit more dominant with him and ordering him around more and more. He's confirmed he has no idea how to lead. I've been trying to lead from behind and use a lot of feeling language so I can stay somewhat feminine. But I'm realizing I may need to take on a dominant role with him. I do it at work but I have yet to try it in my relationships 100% although my xBF had a gentle streak so maybe I'm attracting that type of man more and more now.

 

Can you tell me more about the self esteem thing? I've noticed that with him too. I call it a low ego. I'm actually sort of surprised he actually had the guts to ask me out initially and plan the date. I see how he looks at me. He can't believe he found me, that he got a woman like me, wants to show me off, tells me how great I make his life, etc. So I do believe he's all in.

 

But his lack of ego/confidence with women is dangerous potentially which is why I don't feel comfortable with a lot of things. I know he's capable of at least going EA though I don't believe he is the type to go PA. He seemed to in his marriage do some crappy things behind his ex's back. He tried to continue some of it with me but knows I won't tolerate it behind my back. I don't know yet about the trust part. It will depend on whether he can shore himself up and realize what he's doing. I've not been judgmental at all with him but he knows this stuff can't be behind my back and must be a team sport with boundaries or I'm out. I think that may fulfill the need, but I'm not sure if that will be enough...

[Miss Peach]

This is a big deal and I think you realize it. I have been with some women where I was just so comfortable with them and they with me that it was amazing, just really amazing. And, I am not talking about sex, which was great, I am talking about taking a nap and holding each other as we fall asleep. The just holding each other while sleeping and even though you are asleep you "feel" each other holding each other while you are asleep.

 

Wow, that is kind of girly what I just wrote, odd.

 

Anyway being comfortable like that is a supper bid deal and you don't get it with everyone all the time.

 

Thank you for this. Yes, you totally get that the feeling isn't something really common. I love it when men make me feel calm and when they look at me like they can't believe they found me. That was a huge hook for me in my last relationship.

[jen1447]

I've been finding myself getting a bit more dominant with him and ordering him around more and more.

 

Do you enjoy that or are you doing it mainly out of frustration? Those are two very diff roads w very diff likely ends.

 

I've been trying to lead from behind and use a lot of feeling language so I can stay somewhat feminine.

 

fwiw I don't really agree that being forward or aggressive or dominant is necessarily unfeminine. Maybe non-traditional but I don't know that women are innately followers at the genetic level.

 

Can you tell me more about the self esteem thing? I've noticed that with him too. I call it a low ego. I'm actually sort of surprised he actually had the guts to ask me out initially and plan the date. I see how he looks at me. He can't believe he found me, that he got a woman like me, wants to show me off, tells me how great I make his life, etc. So I do believe he's all in.

 

Bscly if bad enough things happen to a person (either in terms of severity or cumulatively) they can start to believe on a subconscious level that they're somehow 'lesser.' That's not self-pity or excuse-making bc in genuine circumstances they're not even aware of it - they don't pity themselves or go around moping or frowning at everybody, they just ....exist in their own state of mind. BF was like that when I found him (which I admit is sth that fascinated me about him) and as a result he never actually was all in - he didn't believe or have any faith, in anything, whatsoever -until I sat him down and told him that yes what happened to him was crappy, I wasn't gonna sugarcoat it or tell him fairytales about how it wasn't real etc., and that he didn't have to worry about that w me. My honesty and frankness about it all was enough to get him to load in again, tho to an extent I know he still doesn't have faith in it and probably isn't able to. But at least he's willing to take chances - with the right safety net.

 

Your guy doesn't sound quite that broken but it could be some forthrightness and reassurance would still help him.

[BluesPower]

Wow Jen... That is actually a very nice thing you did for him.

 

I wonder if you actually have a soft gentle side?

[Miss Peach]

Do you enjoy that or are you doing it mainly out of frustration? Those are two very diff roads w very diff likely ends.

 

I'm not sure. I am sexually attracted to dominance. I don't necessarily need it outside of sex. I had to do a bit of this with XBF. I had another ex where I largely put him in the female role. I do it at work all the time. I've gotten pretty far in my male dominated field and don't let those guys walk all over me.

 

I'm not sure if you remember the line from My Big Fat Greek Wedding where the mom says the woman turns the man's head suggesting a more indirect level of control. That's essentially what I've been doing so far with him. But sexually I've been having to order him a bit to do what I want rather than just surrender. Surprisingly it's been going pretty well but I've mostly had him go at positions that make me feel more dominated.

 

Bscly if bad enough things happen to a person (either in terms of severity or cumulatively) they can start to believe on a subconscious level that they're somehow 'lesser.' That's not self-pity or excuse-making bc in genuine circumstances they're not even aware of it - they don't pity themselves or go around moping or frowning at everybody, they just ....exist in their own state of mind.

 

Your guy doesn't sound quite that broken but it could be some forthrightness and reassurance would still help him.

 

Agreed. He doesn't think he can attract attention. 4 women liking him online was mind blowing and for him. He told me "He had never had that much attention". That's essentially what strokes his ego. He is a nerdy guy who just doesn't have that confidence yet. Think Big Bang Theory.

[No_Go]

My last BF was a little like yours. Actually worse - he lost his virginity after 35, I suspect I was his first 'real' sexual partner. He was in therapy for years to learn how to talk to women. He mentioned Asperger's - maybe that's why, maybe there was more that he didn't disclose.

 

Thing is this didn't bother me at all. We were a great match sexually and he had very high libido. For nearly 2 years we kept f*cking daily, many times multiple times a day.

 

BUT he lacked confidence. I hate verbally validating people, he needed it all the time. I'd tell him if I'm here, it is because I'm attracted to you. He didn't believe me.

 

So... amidst of a time that we were fighting a lot, he start logging secretly on a dating site... I caught him. Sending messages to MANY women (well, this pre-written eH messages but still) Since we were already committed (I though!) and talking marriage, I was beyond furious. It was ugly ugly night.

 

Later I asked him what urged him to do it - he gave me similar reasoning like your ex. That he wanted to seek validation, to see if women will respond to him, that he didn't want to proceed but he needed the assurance that he's appealing to women. I don't know shall I believe him, but reading the description that your BF gave you - it is very similar.

 

Still thinking back - I shouldn't have gotten involved with him as his first gf (at 37...) because his inexperience and insecurities were just a bomb ticking to explode - and it did.

 

 

Long story short.... We're good for right now. I have to figure out if I want to take this situation on. He likes being a manly man but has no idea what he's doing. I like to stay in feminine energy when dating. He will have to be led from behind if I want to take this on. I didn't realize he was THIS naive and green.

 

I met up with Guy #1 and eventually we found a quiet place we could talk. I brought up that I sensed something was off this last week and I asked him if anything happened on his side. He has no idea I knew. He confessed a ton of stuff to me - most I had no idea of.

 

He said he wasn't sure what level of detail I want. I told him I prefer more detail and when someone withholds that it makes me wonder if I can trust them and that I can't do this if I lose trust.

 

The confessions basically confirmed he is ever greener and more naive than I had imagined.

 

1. He wants to do things right by his stbxw but doesn't get you can be respectful during the divorce process but that, like any breakup, friendship usually comes after a period of being apart. He confirmed he doesn't want her or anything but he's trying to do what feel respectful to him. He had been trying to arrange a final discussion. She is blowing him off. This week is her birthday and he had some angst coming from that since she wrecked a few of his birthdays and he still had some anger about that.

 

 

2. He has no idea how to interact with women and is seeking validation he could get a woman. He's the type seeking an ego stroke in this department. He says all the time how amazing I am, how he can't believe how we wound up with me, he wants me, he can't picture things without me, etc. And I believe he is completely sincere here.

 

So when he separated he sought refuge in talking to strippers and hanging out in bars. I knew about the bars and have been there but I didn't know about the stippers. He thinks a few of these strippers are his friends but says he never sought to date any of them. Same with a bartender I've met at a bar he frequents. He never does anything with any of these women outside their establishments. So basically he is MUCH greener than I imagined. I suspect the women he was talking to in the open relationship was a stripper (since his other social circle doesn't seem that type). He says he hasn't been going as often since meeting me but I don't know exactly how often that's translating to.

 

 

3. He did confess to the profile. I told him I wanted to know he was wanting that interaction; not when he actually did something. I told him if he would rather be with other women I wasn't going to stop him. I only want to be with someone who wants me. He says he doesn't want anyone else but he liked the idea he could potentially be interesting to a woman. He told me everything going on with his interactions there and let me see his profile from his phone. He will take it down after we read each other's profiles. He know I turned mine back on last week but doesn't know it was because I knew his was on.

 

 

Since neither really wants to share but he is needing the ego/validation (and I like it too) we basically wound up to agreeing on a monogamish relationship once we have boundaries defined and discussed. I made him watch a Ted Talk on it to make sure we were on the same page and could discuss. But it can only be done when together as a team activity. We will start with flirting only. Only when together. I'm guessing it will be flirting with women. I plan to add a veto clause but am not sure what else will come out of the boundaries discussion.

[Miss Peach]

Later I asked him what urged him to do it - he gave me similar reasoning like your ex. That he wanted to seek validation, to see if women will respond to him, that he didn't want to proceed but he needed the assurance that he's appealing to women. I don't know shall I believe him, but reading the description that your BF gave you - it is very similar.

 

Still thinking back - I shouldn't have gotten involved with him as his first gf (at 37...) because his inexperience and insecurities were just a bomb ticking to explode - and it did.

 

Thank you for sharing this.

 

Between this and his desire to date and befriend strippers this is my biggest concern with him.

 

I found out the stripper friend he's been hanging out with he tried to date. He wants me to meet her so I feel that's a good sign he's not hiding something but he did confess (and seem nervous about it) that he suggested to her a threesome. It seems like she was the one who blew him off so I do wonder about him. I can't get any hint he's ever ha a PA but he has made some questionable choices.

 

I still really like the guy but I still worry I'm setting myself up for something bad here and whether I can trust him fully.

[jen1447]

fwiw I'd say that if he goes around thinking strippers are his "friends" he's more likely fooling himself than hiding sth shady from you. (Which carries its own implications about whether he's just a boob or not, as opposed to some secret wheeler dealer.)

 

You can get w strippers, but the kind of ppl who get w them w/out paying in some way generally aren't noobish guys who've had limited experience w life and women. Strippers aren't "friends" to those ppl despite the Hollywood tropes of having hearts of gold etc., they're nice to them and act like friends bc they're getting sth for it. Almost always. Doesn't mean he's paying them for sex but I'd say it's likely when they chat it's always after the preface of him slipping them their 20 or singles every 2 minutes they sit there on the couch. Drinks, tips while they dance, the occasional lap dance, etc. Time is money to those girls, no matter who you're spending it with.

[Miss Peach]

fwiw I'd say that if he goes around thinking strippers are his "friends" he's more likely fooling himself than hiding sth shady from you. (Which carries its own implications about whether he's just a boob or not, as opposed to some secret wheeler dealer.)

 

You're right. He actually told me he stopped going unless it was a special occasion like someone's birthday. He seemed a bit upset that when he gave them his contact info no one really contacted him and kept in touch regularly except for this girl. So he seems to have gotten the point that a lot of them were after money.

 

I don't know what happened exactly but he thinks he went on a few dates with her until she wound up with another guy.

 

I don't think he's necessarily wheeling and dealing here. I just don't know if I trust this guy to 'get' things. I wonder what else will he walk into or misread? It also makes me wary of ever opening things up outside of team sports since I don't know if I trust his people judgement.

 

I'm also trying to figure out what this woman is getting from him outside the club to keep in contact with him and see him every month.

[smackie9]

Run forest run!

[jen1447]

You're right. He actually told me he stopped going unless it was a special occasion like someone's birthday. He seemed a bit upset that when he gave them his contact info no one really contacted him and kept in touch regularly except for this girl. So he seems to have gotten the point that a lot of them were after money.

 

I don't know what happened exactly but he thinks he went on a few dates with her until she wound up with another guy.

 

I don't think he's necessarily wheeling and dealing here. I just don't know if I trust this guy to 'get' things. I wonder what else will he walk into or misread? It also makes me wary of ever opening things up outside of team sports since I don't know if I trust his people judgement.

 

I'm also trying to figure out what this woman is getting from him outside the club to keep in contact with him and see him every month.

 

Well strippers may not (usually) have hearts of gold but they are human and have human needs, so maybe she sees him as ....whatever, could be a symbol of a diff life or w/e her particular emotional shortcoming is, or just a good guy who she'll nonetheless end up exploiting on some level.

 

If he's kind of a tool he might make a good robot. You'd have to constantly supervise him but he'd prob be very obedient ....if you're getting off more on the idea of being a peachy domme.

 

My GF3 has a guy like that now btw.

[Miss Peach]

Well strippers may not (usually) have hearts of gold but they are human and have human needs, so maybe she sees him as ....whatever, could be a symbol of a diff life or w/e her particular emotional shortcoming is, or just a good guy who she'll nonetheless end up exploiting on some level.

 

If he's kind of a tool he might make a good robot. You'd have to constantly supervise him but he'd prob be very obedient ....if you're getting off more on the idea of being a peachy domme.

 

My GF3 has a guy like that now btw.

 

I can see that but I know he's attracted to her and something isn't quite adding up. He's arranging for us to meet so I don't think it's anything sinister but I'm wondering if I have the entire story yet.

 

But yes, he likes being appreciated and to feel manly but I could probably order him around.

[salparadise]

But yes, he likes being appreciated and to feel manly but I could probably order him around.

 

 

This ^ is a catch-22 for many women isn't it –– feeling some need to be assertive and exert some control, however, if the guy goes along and doesn't push back she loses respect. If asked they'll say they want a guy to be communicative, sensitive and to work hard to please. But there is a secret test, like in a tug-of-war, where she expects him to show her where the limits are. For her to actually be happy the limits need to be in just the right place, and the push-back expressed in just the right way. One of several ways that it's more complicated to be a female.

 

I've experienced it before in dating, a few times. Thankfully, my girlfriend doesn't seem inclined... but it's also possible that she's more subtile in how she sets it up.

 

I wonder if Peaches' Guy#1 wasn't doing a bit of push-back/balancing with the strippers and dating site. I can't imagine consorting with strippers as a reasonable solution to anything, but I am admittedly out of my element here.