Caught New BF on OLD

[salparadise]

Not exactly but I could see how it might be interpreted this way. I work in a male dominated field. My hobbies tend to attract men more than women. I have a lot of men around me. I have been very honest with him about my interactions with these men. I know my world isn't for all guys out there.

 

Yea, I'm having a hard time relating to the let's be together but we can have sex with other people, but let's wait a week or two to negotiate the terms of that clause, and in the meantime no talking to others... except for me, because I have guy friends who text a lot.

 

If I were in his shoes I'd have a hard time believing it's the beginning of a stable, committed, loving relationship. It sounds like a roller coaster sex ride.

 

But again, I'm wondering if this is a pattern with this guy - turning out when something is not right rather than talk. Some of this I could chalk up to a misunderstanding and get over but that one I don't think I can and it's on my mind.

 

Well, if he turns out to be a liar then just let him go. All I'm saying is that the expectation of exclusivity is sort of a one-way deal, and pretty tenuous at that since you're already talked about poly-open-swinging... but him being on a dating site is an egregious breach of faith.

[BluesPower]

Peach...

 

You know I am usually pretty hard and fast about any cheating esp when you are not married. I am usually dump first ask questions later, guy.

 

I think I understand what is going on for the most part. (Maybe?)

 

In this case I can totally understand #1 being confused about a lot of stuff. He could be thinking that guy #2 is still around, or someone else is. He could be insecure and wondering if he needs any type of backup plan.

 

I mean it seems like for a vanilla guy he has really been open with you and is doing his best with all the new stuff.

 

I am just trying to figure out where you are at in general. I mean you have the whole Dom/sub thing, the poly thing, the female thing and I guess you are trying to figure out all of this?

 

Which I get, and I think you should go for what you want by all means. But, I am guessing that something is special about #1 that you are putting so much work into him.

 

I do find it odd that you have possible desires for a lot of different situations but you don't want to share #1.

 

I am just saying that you should talk with him and "Maybe?" give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

Hell, I have read all of your stuff and I am confused. Vanilla #1 could be more confused than you think he is.

 

What do you think?

[Mrin]

Yea, I'm having a hard time relating to the let's be together but we can have sex with other people, but let's wait a week or two to negotiate the terms of that clause, and in the meantime no talking to others... except for me, because I have guy friends who text a lot.

 

If I were in his shoes I'd have a hard time believing it's the beginning of a stable, committed, loving relationship. It sounds like a roller coaster sex ride.

 

 

 

Well, if he turns out to be a liar then just let him go. All I'm saying is that the expectation of exclusivity is sort of a one-way deal, and pretty tenuous at that since you're already talked about poly-open-swinging... but him being on a dating site is an egregious breach of faith.

 

Yeah, I don't get this either. It is about a clear as mud to me. The other thing to consider is that the infraction by Guy #1 is just reactivating his OLD profile. He's an OLD/dating Noob since he's freshly divorced/separated and doesn't know the "rules". Lastly, if I were a freshly separated/divorced dude who met Peach and she started talking about poly and swinging, I'm not exactly rating her high on my "wise emotional investment" list. Honestly, i'm viewing it more as an opportunity to F my way through an econo-pak of condoms and amass spank bank material for the future.

 

No offense Peach. I'm sure you're a great lady and I love your posts but if I were a vanilla guy fresh out of a vanilla marriage this is how i'd see things.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Mrin

[NuevoYorko]

I think that it would be a good idea for you to explore alternative sexual and relationship lifestyles with men who aren't approaching you in a completely traditional way to begin with. That is asking a great deal from a person you are just getting to know, considering that it's not anything they were looking for in the first place.

 

People who don't have experience with polyamory, threesomes, swinging, etc. may deserve a free pass for thinking that "dating around" is no different.

[jen1447]

I do find it odd that you have possible desires for a lot of different situations but you don't want to share #1.

 

It's not that she doesn't necessarily want to share him (seems tbd, since this is all new), it's that it was never discussed specifically, and up til now they've been operating on the pretense of the things they have discussed.

 

Ppl have to get the concept of 'fairness' out of their head as applies to this ....poly or open relationships aren't always fair and equitable, either in practical terms (women get sex way more easily than men) or even the rules you agree on (I get to play around, you don't, etc.) You may not like those things by your own standards but we're talking about Peaches' standards and the specifics of her R here, not yours. So you shouldn't preach to her about "what's good for the goose" and all that when that approach might be directly contradictory to what she set up, fair in your mind or no.

 

I know that's hard for some ppl to take but it is what it is.

[Miss Peach]

Were you flirting with this other woman before or after you made your agreement? If after, then you were indeed acting on an attraction, even if pursuing it further is not a current option. Him being online is no different - looking at possibilities isn't acting on them. Perhaps I'm missing something in the complex timeline and cast of characters, so I apologize if I've got the facts mixed up.

 

I have NEVER acted on any of this. So it's NOT the same.

 

It's not that she doesn't necessarily want to share him (seems tbd, since this is all new), it's that it was never discussed specifically, and up til now they've been operating on the pretense of the things they have discussed.

 

Ppl have to get the concept of 'fairness' out of their head as applies to this ....poly or open relationships aren't always fair and equitable, either in practical terms (women get sex way more easily than men) or even the rules you agree on (I get to play around, you don't, etc.) You may not like those things by your own standards but we're talking about Peaches' standards and the specifics of her R here, not yours. So you shouldn't preach to her about "what's good for the goose" and all that when that approach might be directly contradictory to what she set up, fair in your mind or no.

 

I know that's hard for some ppl to take but it is what it is.

 

Thanks Jenn. You are getting it. Besides I have backed off the idea of poly lately. But yes, it is being sneaky; not open that I am caring about.

 

If he had come to me and said I think it's time to go through with it, we could have discussed the boundaries and I wouldn't have been so pissed off.

[jen1447]

If he had come to me and said I think it's time to go through with it, we could have discussed the boundaries and I wouldn't have been so pissed off.

 

That's normal bc it's a form of betrayal - and I don't know anyone who responds well to that.

 

I do still think he may a sort of quasi-acceptable explanation for this tho, either ignorance or uncertainty or w/e. Pls give him a shot to explain w/out making up your mind ahead of time.

 

(And btw if he offers up an explanation that sounds shaky or what have you but you find you're inclined to believe it anyway, pop it on here and give us a look - I can spot bs from a mile away.

[BluesPower]

I still think that #1 could really be confused.

 

And Jen, I am just guessing that you through out any kind or "Fairness" out the window in your situations. I am not sure that I could deal with that but some people can. I am sure that your awesomeness makes it all possible. (Kiss kiss)

 

And Peach, I make no criticism of you, I am just not understanding where you are at with everything. And what is so special about #1 that makes him worth this much trouble?

 

I think there must be some really good things about him that make you want to keep him around...

[Miss Peach]

That's normal bc it's a form of betrayal - and I don't know anyone who responds well to that.

 

I do still think he may a sort of quasi-acceptable explanation for this tho, either ignorance or uncertainty or w/e. Pls give him a shot to explain w/out making up your mind ahead of time.

 

(And btw if he offers up an explanation that sounds shaky or what have you but you find you're inclined to believe it anyway, pop it on here and give us a look - I can spot bs from a mile away.

 

I do plan to have a talk with him. I wasn't going to just drop him but I am not planning on giving him my entire weekend now. I am leaning towards dropping him because I feel he messed up and I'm not sure I can trust him now.

 

What can you see as quasi-acceptable excuses? I'm really having trouble coming up with one.

 

I still think that #1 could really be confused.

 

He could be confused. I get that. But if he were into me, then wouldn't it be worth having a talk with me to see what's going on first? Instead he's looking for other women under the radar and hiding it from me.

 

Even if he was under the impression we were open, wouldn't it make sense to talk to me to figure out the arrangement first so he doesn't piss me off and lose me?

 

And Peach, I make no criticism of you, I am just not understanding where you are at with everything. And what is so special about #1 that makes him worth this much trouble?

 

I think there must be some really good things about him that make you want to keep him around...

 

I really liked him, we had a lot in common, we share a lot of mutual friends, we seemed to be on the same page a lot of the time, and up until this everything had been very smooth. Even when I threw out some crazier things, we were able to discuss it and figure out what we agreed on and what we were both wary of and often that stuff aligned.

[Blackened Heart]

I get what Peach and Jen are saying with the poly rules, in that in where Peach may be doing something doesn't mean her guy is free to do the same. Rather it is baser on the arrangement made and rules set between the two of them.

 

However, and really based on all the confused posts in this very thread, may it be possible that your guy #1 is also not completely clear on everything that was set out? He is as it was said, vanilla, and he may have the train of thought that since you were looking and such, it was okay for him to, well all we really know is he activated his OLD account, not what he has done.

 

I would say rather than muddle through here and think of the 1000 possible reasons, just talk to him and ask him directly why he was on OLD to get everything out.

[jen1447]

What can you see as quasi-acceptable excuses? I'm really having trouble coming up with one.

 

I'm still just going back to the possibility he was confused and didn't really know he was stepping in it. He's a total noob so he could have a child-like grasp of it all, which could mean he doesn't really understand the concept despite the fact he nodded agreeably when you explained it to him.

 

Just a thought anyway, it could also very well be he's shady.

[introverted1]

I totally get the notion of betrayal. Whatever the agreement is, no matter how much/little outsides understand or agree with it, the people who made the agreement should honor it. In that regard, #1 has violated trust.

 

That said, I agree that #1 may be acting out of insecurity. Yes, he heard the agreement and even signed on, but since he has no experience with what you've presented, he doesn't know whether your promises can be relied on. If he's as vanilla as you've indicated, he may feel threatened by what you've told him and reactivated his OLD account as a (misguided) effort to protect himself.

 

I'm not sure this is a gap you can breach. Talk to him, of course, but I don't know how successful you'll be in getting him to understand.

[BluesPower]

Maybe Jen, Peach and whoever can help me understand this part.

 

Now I am not saying this is Ms. Peach's agreement in this case but I am asking this as a general question.

 

So MP can at least see #2, #1 and a girl of her choice.

 

But BF #1 can only see MP. Is this a correct description of a possible poly/open scenario?

 

And if the was a proper example of one of these arrangements why would any guy agree to that. I mean no offense but that stuff would have to be mink lined for me to even consider it.

 

When I have had multiple girls we get together when we can and they are free to do what they want when I am not around.

 

Could someone help me understand something like the above scenario? I hate to be so dense.

[joseb]

Maybe Jen, Peach and whoever can help me understand this part.

 

Now I am not saying this is Ms. Peach's agreement in this case but I am asking this as a general question.

 

So MP can at least see #2, #1 and a girl of her choice.

 

But BF #1 can only see MP. Is this a correct description of a possible poly/open scenario?

 

And if the was a proper example of one of these arrangements why would any guy agree to that. I mean no offense but that stuff would have to be mink lined for me to even consider it.

 

When I have had multiple girls we get together when we can and they are free to do what they want when I am not around.

 

Could someone help me understand something like the above scenario? I hate to be so dense.

 

Yeah - I have to admit I didn't religiously read every post but I too am confused and what you posted is about my understanding.

 

Having little knowledge of poly I also do not understand why any guy would sign up for something like that. But I guess it takes all kinds.

[BluesPower]

Yeah joseb I agree...

 

My only problem when I have had multiple GF's is that it seems at some point they all get clingy. Or you could say they fall in love. A lot of the women here say it is just the sex that bonds them. They are probably right but I still don't really get it that well.

 

I could def go for an open/poly thing where you could even have long term GF's if you wanted. I guess one of you could be in love or what ever. As long as the primary relationship was maintained properly for everyone.

 

But some of these other arrangements or ideas for them just baffle me.

[salparadise]

And if the was a proper example of one of these arrangements why would any guy agree to that. I mean no offense but that stuff would have to be mink lined for me to even consider it.

 

Could someone help me understand something like the above scenario? I hate to be so dense.

 

It's unusual, sort of, but not the first time we've seen it on LS. Most of us don't quite get it.

 

What I see is a non-reciprocal contract, and it works like this... Miss Peach likes to control and to be adored. Guy#1 is so taken by her awesomeness that he basically accepts a cuckold/submissive position in order to have access to such awesome pussy. Humiliation is the price he pays. She reminds him that he's hanging by a thread and totally replaceable.

 

Dem's da rules. She makes'em, he complies or else. She's free to do as she pleases with whomever. He can't talk to anyone else.

 

He's inexperienced and fresh off of a divorce. He doesn't realize how demeaning this actually is, or... he's a lot more savvy than we realize, just in for the action, and doesn't really care who she has on the side or in the wings.

 

But my best guess is that he's accepting table scraps because he doesn't really believe he can do better, and his foray back onto the dating site was a weak attempt to regain a little bit of dignity.

[jen1447]

Maybe Jen, Peach and whoever can help me understand this part.

 

Now I am not saying this is Ms. Peach's agreement in this case but I am asking this as a general question.

 

So MP can at least see #2, #1 and a girl of her choice.

 

But BF #1 can only see MP. Is this a correct description of a possible poly/open scenario?

 

And if the was a proper example of one of these arrangements why would any guy agree to that. I mean no offense but that stuff would have to be mink lined for me to even consider it.

 

When I have had multiple girls we get together when we can and they are free to do what they want when I am not around.

 

Could someone help me understand something like the above scenario? I hate to be so dense.

 

I shouldn't have to explain to you that's it's possible that ppl can think differently than you.

 

There are a variety of scenarios possible w situations like this - the 2nd party may just be content w a single partner and not be the jealous or protective type, they might be deeply committed to their party and want to do anything and everything to make them happy (even if that includes going to lengths you don't personally understand), or they might get off on it themselves. Etc. The only ppl they have to satisfy w the conditions are each other, not society.

 

Anyway Peaches situation here is in its infancy - they've been dating for only a short time. What they're doing right now (assuming she didn't dump him this weekend haha) is exploring possibilities. Peaches is experienced w ORs and bisexuality et al, the guy isn't, so she's sort of administrating the process based on her knowledge. So she's looking into side things w women etc. that won't necessarily just be for her. (Anyone who's been keeping up on this story should know this.) It may end up that way depending on a lot of variables we've discussed - can he handle it, does he even want it, etc. - but it was never put out there as "ok I'm gonna go eff the world and you have to sit there and wait for me" so it's a bit insulting to see it misportrayed that way when when all she's actually doing at this stage is exploring options for alternative relationships. (Exploring as in investigating, not partaking.) Likewise for polyamory or multiple relationships etc. - they've actually moved away from that after starting out looking into it.

 

So it'd be nice if ppl could put their personal outrage and offended sensibilities over someone else's relationship on the shelf and get all the facts straight and together before commenting and criticizing.

[BluesPower]

Jen honey, my question was general in nature only using MP as an example.

 

I in no way judge anyone for whatever they choose to do. So please don't put me in the judgmental category, you may actually break my heart.

 

I have kept up with this thread and I understand most of it. I am not a 100% on all of it though.

 

 

While I don't have either of you ladies vast experience I think that if everyone is happy that is just way cool.

 

I am just trying understand how some of these things work. I would really like to be able to have 2 maybe 3 GF's if wifey would be ok with it. And, she is cool with some of it and understands all of it.

 

We will see how that goes. Now maybe I have always picked the wrong women but my problem is that someone always gets clingy and then the situation always goes awry.

 

But please don't think I would judge someone. And yes, in the situation that I described, I could not do it. But that is just me, maybe many others could.

 

Also, in relation to this thread, since MP has put so much work into this guy, I am guessing that for some reason he must be worth it. I would kind of hate to see her dump him if he was being stupid or insecure. Unless of course he was being shady.

 

But for me, I am not judging anyone, I would like to understand better how these things work for my own edification.

 

And of course, Kiss kiss and thank you...

[joseb]

 

So it'd be nice if ppl could put their personal outrage and offended sensibilities over someone else's relationship on the shelf and get all the facts straight and together before commenting and criticizing.

 

I didn't see any critising or outrage. You are all free to do whatever makes you happy, as long as you are not hurting anyone. Fine by me.

 

We were just explaining that to us noobs (which this guy is) we find it hard to understand why a guy would sign up for a deal like that. And I can totally see why he might feel entitled to at least keep his online profile open.

 

I too like BluePower have tried to have multiple GFs at the same time, but never found any to agree to that, so am genuinely curious too.

[jen1447]

^ I don't think I need to go search out quotes for you in this thread to find some rather spurious criticisms.

 

Jen honey, my question was general in nature only using MP as an example.

 

I in no way judge anyone for whatever they choose to do. So please don't put me in the judgmental category, you may actually break my heart.

 

You're not the only one posting here BP.

[joseb]

^ I don't think I need to go search out quotes for you in this thread to find some rather spurious criticisms.

 

Ok, i was just referring to mine and Bps post as I thought you were replying to those.

[BluesPower]

Yes Ma'am...

[Miss Peach]

To answer the questions on this thread, here is the breakdown:

 

1. I met guy #1 and #2 around the same time. I went on several dates with both initially.

 

Guy#1 is VERY inexperienced with women but the subject came up whether to be BF/GF, etc. about a month in. We've been dating 2 months now. I brought up I had been dating in open relationship circles after my last monogamous relationship ended over the summer. We discussed it a bit and he was open to it but never really confirmed which direction we would go in. However, he expressed that he wasn't interested in anyone else and would tell me if he wanted to go there. I took this as he would tell me BEFORE he initiated anything. He took it as he would tell me if he was DOING something. About a week after that discussion, I discussed with him I didn't want to share him.

 

Guy #2 is poly so it was established it would always be open. He started making noises to wanting me to be his second partner. We invited me to a party last weekend. But after the month around when Guy #1 and I had that talk, he essentially slow faded. So I assumed it was over. But last week he came sending a bunch of texts and saying he was looking forward to the party. I wanted to formally end things with him and had assumed it was over when he did the slow fade. With him making noises of partnership, having been on several dates, etc. I would have preferred to have that conversation on the phone but he reduced it to me having to text the breakup.

 

Girl #1 is just someone I met at a party Guy#1 took me to. We ONLY talked and I was attracted. I never acted on any of that.

 

So if you throw out all the referenced to poly and open relationships, the reality is it wasn't too much different than the early dates of regular dating when people are multi-dating.

[BluesPower]

Good that clears it up...

 

But what happened with #1? Are you guys good or not. Inquiring minds want to know.

[Miss Peach]

Good that clears it up...

 

But what happened with #1? Are you guys good or not. Inquiring minds want to know.

 

Long story short.... We're good for right now. I have to figure out if I want to take this situation on. He likes being a manly man but has no idea what he's doing. I like to stay in feminine energy when dating. He will have to be led from behind if I want to take this on. I didn't realize he was THIS naive and green.

 

I met up with Guy #1 and eventually we found a quiet place we could talk. I brought up that I sensed something was off this last week and I asked him if anything happened on his side. He has no idea I knew. He confessed a ton of stuff to me - most I had no idea of.

 

He said he wasn't sure what level of detail I want. I told him I prefer more detail and when someone withholds that it makes me wonder if I can trust them and that I can't do this if I lose trust.

 

The confessions basically confirmed he is ever greener and more naive than I had imagined.

 

1. He wants to do things right by his stbxw but doesn't get you can be respectful during the divorce process but that, like any breakup, friendship usually comes after a period of being apart. He confirmed he doesn't want her or anything but he's trying to do what feel respectful to him. He had been trying to arrange a final discussion. She is blowing him off. This week is her birthday and he had some angst coming from that since she wrecked a few of his birthdays and he still had some anger about that.

 

 

2. He has no idea how to interact with women and is seeking validation he could get a woman. He's the type seeking an ego stroke in this department. He says all the time how amazing I am, how he can't believe how we wound up with me, he wants me, he can't picture things without me, etc. And I believe he is completely sincere here.

 

So when he separated he sought refuge in talking to strippers and hanging out in bars. I knew about the bars and have been there but I didn't know about the stippers. He thinks a few of these strippers are his friends but says he never sought to date any of them. Same with a bartender I've met at a bar he frequents. He never does anything with any of these women outside their establishments. So basically he is MUCH greener than I imagined. I suspect the women he was talking to in the open relationship was a stripper (since his other social circle doesn't seem that type). He says he hasn't been going as often since meeting me but I don't know exactly how often that's translating to.

 

 

3. He did confess to the profile. I told him I wanted to know he was wanting that interaction; not when he actually did something. I told him if he would rather be with other women I wasn't going to stop him. I only want to be with someone who wants me. He says he doesn't want anyone else but he liked the idea he could potentially be interesting to a woman. He told me everything going on with his interactions there and let me see his profile from his phone. He will take it down after we read each other's profiles. He know I turned mine back on last week but doesn't know it was because I knew his was on.

 

 

Since neither really wants to share but he is needing the ego/validation (and I like it too) we basically wound up to agreeing on a monogamish relationship once we have boundaries defined and discussed. I made him watch a Ted Talk on it to make sure we were on the same page and could discuss. But it can only be done when together as a team activity. We will start with flirting only. Only when together. I'm guessing it will be flirting with women. I plan to add a veto clause but am not sure what else will come out of the boundaries discussion.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Miss Peach