Did she really just do this?

[Ostepop]

My ex is in a mental institution, and i know it's a red flag. Ohh, and i've experienced it. I got a bit needy and asked for more than she could handle, but she didn't really object and kept it to herself until it boiled over. We broke up, and got back together. Broke up again because of something else, and got back together. I pretty much pleaded and laid out my mistakes (and i've made quite a few) and promised to never do it again. She was happy i detailed myself in such a way and took me back. We talked about what we wanted for the future and it was merry. We hadn't had a real conversation like that in a long time. I was happy, and she was as well (i though). Day after (yesterday) she broke up and said some absurd things. Like she wants to break up forever because she'd shown me a side of herself that scared her...... What the ****? and that she doesn't want to summarize what had happened with the family if we were to get back together. What... The actual ****? And in the very same message she had the galls to say she loved me. And also that she wants to spend the rest of her life with me. I told her i didn't believe that nonsense excuse of a breakup for a second. I think she lost her love for me a good, good while ago, if it was ever something other than a facade that is. Because how would she ever find a new boyfriend if she doesn't want to summarize her and her family’s life (it's ****ed up) and show her perhaps true self to him? This was not love from her part. I don't know what the heck she's feeling/felt, but it's not love.

 

She has told me she loves me every night, even the night before the breakup. She's mutilated both her arms some of her legs, been sexually abused by her brother for 6 years straight (did not know this until VERY recently), and still wants to have a relationship with him... I have accepted all of this after some time for myself. I just wanted her to be happy. I even moved to her location. But the first time i saw her after i moved she said "now that you’re here, know that i won’t see you as often" and "I refuse to take responsibility for you moving here " I never expected her to, but he welcome i had was not one out of love for a man you want a future and kids with.

 

She, was also really mean in the aftermath of the breakup. Din't care an ounce for my feelings at all for this permanent breakup, and started joking and laughing and told me i victimize myself and did not act manly, when i protested and questioned her reasons for the breakup. which made which me furious and lashed out my own (nothing tooo bad (no ridiculing of what's happened to her or what she's done to herself, i'm not that low), but i had enough of her attitude by then. I'm utterly sad how our relationship devolved from something akin to perfection and full sync in the very beginning to this, with the only problem being that she heard voices and the distance. She was working really well then. I get really sad when i think of our good times in the beginning and towards the middle. The way she's changed her personality to a cold and apathetic mess and forgotten it all and only remembering the very recent bad times is utterly depressing. She got so bad in the aftermath that i just blocked her number. She was just too cold and insensitive.

 

She did show joy when i said nice things to her, and gave her flowers and that type of stuff. But the joy was short lived and she showed no feelings back after the joy of being thankful then and there. I knew it was going the wrong way when she stopped asking me how my day went and other small things. I asked her often, but she only stated some things she did, but didn't ask anything back, like she used to before. Like i said, her feelings have been gone a good while. Why the heck would she lie about it?

 

Well, i'll never date a mentally unstable person again. Lesson 100% learned.

 

Thank you Standard-Fare for you sound advice, i feel like an utter fool for not heeding your warnings.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Ostepop

[Downtown]

She's mutilated both her arms some of her legs.

The APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5) lists "self-harming behavior such as cutting" for only one disorder: BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). That is, of the 157 disorders listed in DSM-5, only BPD has "cutting" listed as a defining trait. Moreover, many studies have shown that self harm like cutting is strongly associated with BPD. A 2004 hospital study, for example, found that,

Self-mutilating behavior is a symptom seen in both men and women with various psychiatric disorders, but

the majority of those who self-mutilate are women with borderline personality disorder

. This complex, maladaptive behavior is used by clients as a means of self-preservation and emotion regulation, and is often associated with childhood trauma.

See

J Psychosoc Nurs Ment Health Serv. 2004

.

My ex is in a mental institution, and i know it's a red flag.

Actually, you've mentioned many red flags. The behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational anger, controlling behavior, easily triggered temper tantrums, emotional instability, cutting, lack of impulse control, rapid flips between adoring you and treating you badly, and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your exGF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

 

I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and temper tantrums.

 

We broke up, and got back together. Broke up again because of something else, and got back together.... Day after (yesterday) she broke up and said some absurd things. Like she wants to break up forever.

The push-away/pull-back cycle you describe -- which results in numerous breakups/makeups -- is another red flag for BPD. Like young children, BPDers (those with strong BPD traits) are very easy to fall in love with and very hard to walk away from. Indeed, walking away from a BPDer can feel like you're abandoning a sick child who desperately needs you.

 

The result is that it is common for the abused partners of BPDers to attempt to leave many times. BPDer relationships are notorious for having multiple breakups. A BPDfamily survey of about 460 such relationships found that nearly a fourth of them (23%) went through 10 or more complete breakup/makeup cycles BEFORE finally ending for good. About 40% of the BPDer relationships experienced at least six breakup/makeup cycles before ending. And 73% had three or more breakup/makeup cycles before finally ending. See "Results" at Breakup/Makeup Poll.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back or avoid running into the arms of another woman who is just like her.

 

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Ostepop.

[slowloris44]

I can totally relate. Although my ex did not go to a mental institution he does need serious help for his self harm like your ex does. You cannot save her that is one thing I learned ... you cant save anyone who has serious issues like that . I was a "savior" to my ex for his problems and as much as I tried my best to work things out with him and I acknowledge my faults he still left me twice. He even made it a point to say that I was the reason for his problems ... that's absurd.I left my ex once before all of that but because of this stupid hot and cold /push and pull attitude he formed. So its best for you to just move one and take care of yourself ! let her take care of herself because that is nothing but a toxic relationship. Take care

[Standard-Fare]

Ostepop, where are you living now? I hope it's not still with her family? Because, as no one should even have to point out, that would obviously be a terrible place for you.

 

I take issue with your description of the relationship as "something akin to perfection." From what I recall, the foundation itself was shaky: You had very little experience with relationships or intimacy, the majority of the relationship was long-distance without any "real life" context, and then of course she encouraged you to make a major life change to be near to her without giving you the full details. While she was in a mental institution.

 

But you need to start taking some responsibility for making bad decisions. The big one was moving in with her family when you knew she was in a mental institution. That's just massively poor judgment, to the point of self-destructiveness.

 

Accept this breakup as the "reset" button you need. It really is for the best. Find a way to move out of that area and move forward in your life.

[Ostepop]

Does that mean she has strung me along for security, if she has bpd? she clicks on a good few of your points.

 

 

Ostepop, where are you living now? I hope it's not still with her family? Because, as no one should even have to point out, that would obviously be a terrible place for you.

 

I take issue with your description of the relationship as "something akin to perfection." From what I recall, the foundation itself was shaky: You had very little experience with relationships or intimacy, the majority of the relationship was long-distance without any "real life" context, and then of course she encouraged you to make a major life change to be near to her without giving you the full details. While she was in a mental institution.

 

But you need to start taking some responsibility for making bad decisions. The big one was moving in with her family when you knew she was in a mental institution. That's just massively poor judgment, to the point of self-destructiveness.

 

Accept this breakup as the "reset" button you need. It really is for the best. Find a way to move out of that area and move forward in your life.

 

I knew her for a month before getting together as we were in the same rehabilitation institution (she for her back, and me for my weight). We talked constantly while there and after. Took us like 3 months after that rehab place to become a couple. The beginning was nice. I was at her place and she even came to my place and hung out for a week. We went on hiking trips, watched movies, even played some games. We had a really good time in the start of our relationship. But her attitude towards me became more unloving for every month that passed (yet she kept uttering the word "i love you" which made me confused). It was so slow i failed to catch up. Same with her condition, because she was relatively fine when we became a couple. Now, i don't know. She plays boardgames with the other inmates, but said it took too much to speak to me She didn't have her heart in the relationship, and i don't know when she ever did. But was too chicken**** to say it in plain words and kept playing games instead.

 

But i moved back to my old apartment 5 days after moving I knew it was a bad move, but i just wanted to take a leap of faith, so to say. Well, i still feel the burn

 

The thing is. I feel anger. And i want to know why she did it, but i don't feel an immense loss. A relief of sorts, but the question "WHY?" still sticks in my head. The bull**** about the side of her that scared her and don't want to summarize, i just don't buy it.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Ostepop

[Downtown]

Does that mean she has strung me along for security, if she has bpd?

Ostepop, if she is a BPDer (i.e., has strong and persistent traits), it would be more accurate to say she is seeking an identity than seeking security. A BPDer absolutely HATES to live alone because she has a fragile, unstable sense of who she really is. A BPDer therefore seeks out a partner with a strong personality who can supply that missing self identity. In that way, the partner helps to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction.

 

But, when you do exactly that -- providing what she so dearly needs and wants -- she will start resenting you for it because she will feel you're "controlling" her and suffocating her. BPDers have a great fear of engulfment due to that lack of self identity and due to their lack of personal boundaries, which means they have great difficulty distinguishing between their own feelings and those of their partners.

 

Her attitude towards me became more unloving for every month that passed (yet she kept uttering the word "i love you" which made me confused).

Unlike narcissists and sociopaths, BPDers are capable of loving and can do so very intensely. Yet, because they typically have the emotional development of a four year old, BPDers love in the immature way that a young child is able to love. A child, for example, absolutely adores Daddy when he is bringing out the toys but, in an instant, can flip to hating Daddy when he takes one toy away. This is why, with BPDers and young children, their love and other feelings seem to be like some regions of the Mississippi River: a mile wide and an inch deep.

 

"WHY?" still sticks in my head. The bull**** about the side of her that scared her....

If your exGF really is a BPDer, she likely did become scared by some minor thing you said or did. BPDers have two great fears -- abandonment and engulfment. You won't trigger either fear during the courtship period because her infatuation convinces her that you're the nearly perfect man who has arrived to save her from unhappiness. In this way, the infatuation holds her two fears at bay.

 

The problems typically start about 4 to 6 months into the R/S, when that infatuation starts to evaporate and the two fears return. It then becomes impossible to avoid triggering these two fears because they lie at the opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means you are always in a lose/lose situation because, as you back away from one fear to avoid triggering it, you are drawing closer to the fear at the other end of that same spectrum.

 

Hence, as you move close to a BPDer to comfort her and assure her of your love, you will start triggering her engulfment fear, making her feel like she's being suffocated and controlled by you. Yet, as you back away to give her breathing space, you will find that you've started triggering her abandonment fear. And, sadly, there is no midpoints solution (between "too close" and "too far away") where you can safely stand to avoid triggering the two fears. I know because I foolishly spent 15 years searching for that Goldilocks position, which simply does not exist.

 

She's been sexually abused by her brother for 6 years straight... and still wants to have a relationship with him.

Like young children, BPDers can easily be around people who they sometimes hate. As I noted above, BPDers typically flip back and forth between loving and hating people. Like young children, they categorize everyone close to them as "all good" or "all bad" -- and they can recategorize someone, in just ten seconds, from one polar extreme to the other based solely on a minor comment or action.

 

BPDers and children do this -- a process called "splitting" -- because they are too immature to be able to handle strong mixed feelings, ambiguities, uncertainties, and the other gray areas of close interpersonal relationships. They simplify their thinking by "splitting off" the strong conflicting feeling (e.g., love or hate), putting it far out of reach of their conscious mind. For children, this splitting process is essential to their survival. It allows them to love the parents on whom they rely for survival -- even though they were hating those very same parents just a few minutes earlier.

 

Well, BPDers are like that too. This is why the #2 best selling BPD book is titled I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!

[Ostepop]

Ostepop, if she is a BPDer (i.e., has strong and persistent traits), it would be more accurate to say she is seeking an identity than seeking security. A BPDer absolutely HATES to live alone because she has a fragile, unstable sense of who she really is. A BPDer therefore seeks out a partner with a strong personality who can supply that missing self identity. In that way, the partner helps to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction.

 

But, when you do exactly that -- providing what she so dearly needs and wants -- she will start resenting you for it because she will feel you're "controlling" her and suffocating her. BPDers have a great fear of engulfment due to that lack of self identity and due to their lack of personal boundaries, which means they have great difficulty distinguishing between their own feelings and those of their partners.

 

Unlike narcissists and sociopaths, BPDers are capable of loving and can do so very intensely. Yet, because they typically have the emotional development of a four year old, BPDers love in the immature way that a young child is able to love. A child, for example, absolutely adores Daddy when he is bringing out the toys but, in an instant, can flip to hating Daddy when he takes one toy away. This is why, with BPDers and young children, their love and other feelings seem to be like some regions of the Mississippi River: a mile wide and an inch deep.

 

If your exGF really is a BPDer, she likely did become scared by some minor thing you said or did. BPDers have two great fears -- abandonment and engulfment. You won't trigger either fear during the courtship period because her infatuation convinces her that you're the nearly perfect man who has arrived to save her from unhappiness. In this way, the infatuation holds her two fears at bay.

 

The problems typically start about 4 to 6 months into the R/S, when that infatuation starts to evaporate and the two fears return. It then becomes impossible to avoid triggering these two fears because they lie at the opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means you are always in a lose/lose situation because, as you back away from one fear to avoid triggering it, you are drawing closer to the fear at the other end of that same spectrum.

 

Hence, as you move close to a BPDer to comfort her and assure her of your love, you will start triggering her engulfment fear, making her feel like she's being suffocated and controlled by you. Yet, as you back away to give her breathing space, you will find that you've started triggering her abandonment fear. And, sadly, there is no midpoints solution (between "too close" and "too far away") where you can safely stand to avoid triggering the two fears. I know because I foolishly spent 15 years searching for that Goldilocks position, which simply does not exist.

 

Like young children, BPDers can easily be around people who they sometimes hate. As I noted above, BPDers typically flip back and forth between loving and hating people. Like young children, they categorize everyone close to them as "all good" or "all bad" -- and they can recategorize someone, in just ten seconds, from one polar extreme to the other based solely on a minor comment or action.

 

BPDers and children do this -- a process called "splitting" -- because they are too immature to be able to handle strong mixed feelings, ambiguities, uncertainties, and the other gray areas of close interpersonal relationships. They simplify their thinking by "splitting off" the strong conflicting feeling (e.g., love or hate), putting it far out of reach of their conscious mind. For children, this splitting process is essential to their survival. It allows them to love the parents on whom they rely for survival -- even though they were hating those very same parents just a few minutes earlier.

 

Well, BPDers are like that too. This is why the #2 best selling BPD book is titled I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!

 

I'm not kidding when i can say i could write a book about this relationship. If only i were a better writer that is

 

Can't rightly say that she has it or not. Many things points towards it though. She does have interests. Well, 1 interest and that is dogs. Training and competing with them. It's her purpose in life. If this makes her non bpd, i don't know. In the beginning i was going on hiking trips almost every day, and she ended up doing the same. She became more and more competitive. If this is the mirror thing, i don't know either. Could just be trying to impress me. And also she strikes me to be emotionally immature, but not always. She was mature enough to say that she wants a relationship with her brother, but i could choose whatever i wanted. I was immature enough to say that i don't want my girlfriend socializing with her long term rapist. I kind of stand by that decision, but i let go for her sake. I wanted her to be happy most of all. We broke up over this argument the first time. She is also too dependent on her mother and step father. Lots of stuff they said, she parroted to me. I once said "you have to be a bit egotistical" because she made herself invisible to her family and let herself suffer, but she laughed and told her mother what i said. Months later she said "i have to be egotisctical, *step father* said so. And i was struck back. She laughed when i said it, but swamped it in when he said it. She always brushed aside anything i said. This is one of multiple cases of this. And sometimes she said she understood a fault (but only after the argument), and will correct it, but her mother revealed as well that she talked to her about it. I'm going to assume she has consulted someone every time we've had a problem she ended up acknowledging after the fact. Even her parents didn't like her attitude towards me at all. And this is HER family.

 

And her relationship negligence started around the middle of the relationship. My neediness came BECAUSE of this. I felt unwanted. But she kept saying "i love you" at the end of the day, so i didn't know what to think. But she kept her interactions at a bare minimum. Well, she's in a mental institute, so i would get that, but she socializes with her inmates and family just fine. It's just that she didn't prioritize our relationship where we talked about moving together and having kids, at all.. Because of her busy schedule i asked her to call me. She took this to mean every single day. And she kind of did that, but hated doing it, and ohh boy did i hear that during our first breakup. I never asked her to call me that often, just now and then so i could hear her voice instead of just sms every single day. She did say she didn't toss me to the side, but who are we kidding? she did. And she revealed it many times in other discussions. She said she saw me as family, but in other discussions she said "of course i put my family first"..... This pretty much contradicts. I was sad that she wouldn't include me. I would have included her in everything about me if the roles were reversed. I would rather break up if she dind't want to support me in those times.

 

Honestly, i don't think she was lying on purpose. I think it was unintentional as she didn't know what to think herself and didn't recognize it when i brought it up. I'm unsure if she looked at me like the enemy at the same time as her boyfriend. Sometimes i did wonder. That reminds me of one time when she argued with a friend over some stupid ****. She gave me the phone and asked what i thought of it. I saw her eyes. She was ready to pounce on me for every comment i made, and she did exactly that. I just gave her back her phone and said i'm not going to take this kind of abuse from you. Of course she got angry, but she came around later. She's stubborn as a mule, so she didn't acknowledge a single complaint i made. In the aftermath she said "Maybe i have done some wrong things myself, but that's something to learn from" "MAYBE"? She have done plenty wrong, but she can't see it herself. I can burn for my mistakes, but her "maybe" mistakes are just something to learn from.

 

Well, i hope at some point she will realize how ****ty she has treated me and come pleading, but her stubbornness will never allow it. Knowing her, she'll stay single for the rest of her life before she'll ever admit any wrongdoing. I wouldn't take her back anyway, she was absolutely terrible after breaking up.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Ostepop