Sick of being labelled "nice guy"

[steppero]

I am so over it guys. I am in general a nice guy, Do things for others out of the kindness of my own heart, but I have changed that a lot over the last year or so and started being a bit more [brusque] to women to try and drop the "nice guy" tag. I tell them what to do, I tease them about their flaws, Sometimes I come straight out and call them [names] even though they know I am joking around. More women have been calling a me [names] even my female boss called me [a rude name] the other day and surprisingly it made me feel proud of myself.

 

Enter the woman with a boyfriend who I have stupidly fallen for. She sits next to me at work and we have grown quiet close over the last 6 months. She tells me her relationship troubles, she calls me, texts me stupid [stuff] all the time like jokes etc. I had started falling for her knowing full well she has a boyfriend, I stupidly started to convince myself she was starting to become emotionally attached to me as well, however today she dropped the line "your too nice" i nearly walked out and jumped off the top balcony to my doom, even though previously I had treated her like [rudely], and she had even said i am an [jerk]. Now i'm "too nice" FFS when do I ever win?

 

This woman has literally wrecked every opportunity I have had to date other women. She revealed to me today that she told a woman I was interested in dating that I liked her, and after that, the woman never spoke to me again, this has happened several times. Why would she ruin my potential relationships like that for?

Edited November 29, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Whoa the language; also added paragraphs

[PegNosePete]

It is not black and white. You are not either a "nice guy" or a [jerk]". You can be nice without being a pushover, or what some people call a Nice Guy (with caps).

 

I'd suggest reading No More Mr Nice Guy, a book you can find online.

 

The solution to the problem with the woman at work interfering in your love life seems pretty simple to me. Just cut her out of it. Problem solved.

Edited November 29, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Language

[maxalton]

[]

 

This is how I see it--

On one end of the spectrum you have the sappy, spineless, kiss-ass nice guy who buys them flowers, spends tons of money on them, fixes their kitchen sink, etc. On the other end of the spectrum, you have the daredevil, rebellious bad boy who doesn't [care about] what people think. The alpha male is what balances it out. The alpha male is the sweet spot right in the middle. Try to visualize that;

 

Nice Guy-------->Alpha Male<--------Bad Boy

 

The alpha male has the positive qualities from the nice guy AND the bad boy, but doesn't have the negative qualities from the nice guy AND the bad boy.

 

Positive qualities of nice guy: cares about his woman, respects his woman, won't abuse his woman.

Positive qualities of bad boy: independent, dominant, leader, goes for what he wants in life (or with his woman), doesn't dither or hesitate in life (or with his woman), doesn't seek others approval in life (including his woman)

 

Negative qualities of nice guy: sappy, overly-emotional, spineless, subservient, weak, needy, clingy, knight in shining armor, seeks approval, acts unworthy (sometimes may act extra nice to his woman to try to prove his worth)

Negative qualities of bad boy: a-hole, blatantly disrespectful, cheater, abuser, user, heartbreaker

 

Take it back to nature, when you see wild animals such as tigers out in the world, you see them exuding STRENGTH in the world, and then you see them behind the scenes being nice. THAT is how you survive in the world (and in the world of dating/attraction.) You have to display strength FIRST, and then you can be nice behind the scenes (a.k.a. when you're laying in bed with your woman.) You want to keep your woman at arms-length. If you become subservient and not a challenge to her, she loses attraction for you. Always keep her at arms length. Afterall, we all appreciate the things we have to work to attain. Never allow her to feel like she's got you wrapped around her finger. Act like you're a catch. And on a side note, you NEVER want to act more emotional than the woman. Masculine energy attracts feminine energy. Remember that.

 

Remember; STRENGTH FIRST. NOT NICE GUY. STRENGTH FIRST, THEN NICE. Women are attracted to your STRENGTH and your CONFIDENCE, not your niceness.

 

You want a perfect representation/example of an alpha male? Somebody who is independent, charming, mysterious, and confident? James Bond.

 

Make sense?

Edited November 29, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Language

[LargoLagg]

I am so over it guys. I am in general a nice guy, Do things for others out of the kindness of my own heart, but I have changed that a lot over the last year <snip>

If I can venture a guess, you're making a mistake when you think the opposite of being nice is being an [jerk]. As you have no doubt noticed by now, turning into an [jerk] has done nothing to make girls flock to you. Right?

 

Try to think of it this way instead: girls are considerate and boys are not. When they say you're too nice, what they really mean is "you act like a girl". Girls don't like that. Girls like boys when they act like boys, and in general, boys are not overly considerate, thoughtful, empathetic and giving. That you are proud for being called [names] just means you're bitter, and that you've got it all wrong.

 

Without knowing you, I don't know how to show you the differences, but surely you must know some guys who get banged regularly. Compare your normal self to them, or even your pr*ck self to them. I'm sure you'll see differences.

Edited November 29, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Language cleanup

[Springsummer]

I like nice guys, depend on in what ways they are nice.

I like bad guys, depend on in what ways they are bad.

[William]

Folks, I strongly suggest, if you don't wish to be banned from this site for the use of vulgar language, to read this thread:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/loveshack-org-questions-comments/546209-policy-individual-group-bashing-berating

 

There will be one courtesy cleanup since the thread starter 'started it' but that's it. We simply won't have it. Please discuss being sick of being labeled a 'nice guy' and in language compliant with our guidelines of discussion. Numerous posts edited. Thanks!

[basil67]

*Generally speaking* Girls don't want jerks. And yes, the current behaviour you've picked is that of a class A jerk. Ugh.

 

They also don't want guys who are doormats. Perhaps this is what you were before?

 

What they want are guys who treat them well but also have good boundaries. The kind of man who will remember her and be thoughtful, but who also assertively (not aggressively) tells those around him if they are taking advantage of him and puts a stop to it.

 

I find the term 'nice guy' to be far too open to misinterpretation these days. I think that aspiring to be a 'good bloke' is pretty much where to aim.

[spiderowl]

Honestly, it is really hard to find a nice guy when dating. If you are not getting anywhere with the girls you like, it is not because you are a nice guy. I think guys come to this conclusion because they are sweet to the women they like and then if things don't work out they assume it was because they were nice.

 

I guess a guy can be too 'nice' in the sense of being soppy, clingy, possessive and generally not showing some masculine features such as having initiative and creativity. I assume you are not like that.

 

If a girl tells you you are too nice, she is not a nice girl! Can't you see that? Maybe you are chasing the wrong women. I would show her less attention and enjoy yourself with others. Maybe what she means is that she thinks you are there waiting for her for when she gets bored with her current boyfriend. Show her you are not and have other important people in your life and things might change. However, I really would question the kind of woman you find attractive.

[LargoLagg]

Folks, I strongly suggest, if you don't wish to be banned from this site for the use of vulgar language, to read this thread:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/loveshack-org-questions-comments/546209-policy-individual-group-bashing-berating

 

There will be one courtesy cleanup since the thread starter 'started it' but that's it. We simply won't have it. Please discuss being sick of being labeled a 'nice guy' and in language compliant with our guidelines of discussion. Numerous posts edited. Thanks!

Maybe it would be less work to expand the vocabulary of your profanity prevention engine and intercept these extra words you don't like that are currently allowed to pass the filter.

 

Just trying to be helpful.

[elaine567]

She revealed to me today that she told a woman I was interested in dating that I liked her, and after that, the woman never spoke to me again, this has happened several times. Why would she ruin my potential relationships like that for?

 

What sort of twisted logic is that?

By her telling women that you like them, she is not trying to ruin you, she is trying to set you up with other women. The fact they will not go out with you or even speak to you is on you, not her.

[Standard-Fare]

Just a general comment: I tend to be wary of guys who characterize THEMSELVES as "the nice guy."

 

No one's nice all the time, no one has an entirely pure heart or entirely unselfish motives, so to identify strongly with that label IMO suggests something disingenuous, like inflating one's sense of their own "goodness."

I also find that when a guy thinks of himself like that, it usually means other things in reality — such as, "passive guy who doesn't stand up for himself and privately fumes about the way others treat him" or "guy who expects natural rewards for acting like a gentleman."

 

OP, I'm not saying those generalizations necessarily apply to you. I also understand that you want to rid yourself of any such association. But I'd encourage you first to look at whether the "nice guy" thing is actually your real issue, because there could be other things going on.

[LargoLagg]

I was thinking about this today, and I remembered a guy I knew who was also known as "too nice". I was thinking, everybody knew it, but what was it about him, exactly?

 

1) He was really EAGER to volunteer his help. It came across as needy. Nobody did that the way he did it.

 

2) He was always the FIRST to volunteer his help. It didn't seem to matter how worthy the cause was.

 

3) You got the sense that he expected back as good as he gave, which was really over the top.

 

4) He never got angry or disagreeable. At his worst, he was discouraged.

 

5) When he liked a girl, he poured that on even more.

 

6) He seemed to be indiscriminate in who he wanted to date. If she was within our circle, even temporarily, he was on it. It reeked of desperation. I'd also have to observe that if he thought a girl was out of his league, he wouldn't even try, ask if he was intimidated. Also, first he'd make sure that other guys weren't interested, rather than competing. If another guy was interested, he'd step aside. He was far too considerate to both men and women.

 

6) He would "befriend" her before he would give dating a shot, and my recollection is that he was not nearly as aggressive with trying to be with a girl as he was offering his "help and support"

 

I think that the ordinary reaction was that this was an odd and insincere way to ingratiate himself with people. I won't go so far as to say that he was insincere, but it came across as insincere.

[RecentChange]

Yeah I have noticed many who complain that "nice guys can't get ahead!!!" It's really - unconfident / unassertive guys that can't get ahead.

 

So called "bad boys" are usually just confident guys who know what they want and go after it. They don't do it insults (insult me and I am never talking to you again!), They do it with confidence, with masculinity, with courage to go after what they want, not by making "nice gestures" in hopes a woman will notice.

 

Don't be a jerk. Only women with self esteem issues like jerks. Do be confident, do be forward.

 

When was the last time you walked right up to a woman and asked for her number? Don't pine - be bold.

[eightytwenty]

Nice guys to me are just high maintenance....

 

 

Its like they come off too strong, inexperienced, needy, always needing an answer, and honestly it always felt like I almost had to be the man in the relationship. My ex was like this and I couldn't stand it. I really liked him, but as soon as my tone changed I got messaging out the wazoo about what's wrong. Turn off.

 

Go back through and think about why they said that. No one likes a jerk. But a guy needs to be the man.

[Wade Lamare]

I think one of the problems with the archetypical Nice Guy rather than, as basil67 pointed out, a good guy or good bloke is that they are in reality anything but.

They invariably carry a chip round on their shoulder and in their own way can be just as misogynistic as a jerk off bad boy.

 

You get this whole angry thing with them, "because I did X, Y and Z she should have had sex/gone out with me, stuck up []

 

So OP, don't be a Nice Guy (note the capitals) but do be a good bloke. Meet girls, be genuine and don't force it or be desperate. The interested ones will find a way to let you know of their interest.

Edited November 30, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Language

[LargoLagg]

Yhen was the last time you walked right up to a woman and asked for her number? Don't pine - be bold.

Spot on! That made me remember one time I met this girl at the beach, we were hanging out in the same group of people. I asked her out, and she said no. I told her she had 30 days to change her mind, and I'd see her almost daily, remind her of my offer, remind her of how many days were left, and I'd ask again. It was one of the ballsiest things I ever did, and believe it or not, she started to respect my persistence. I didn't come across as needy when I did it, but, sincerely interested and looking out for her, as if going out with me would be a good thing for her.

 

She never did go out with me, but she became a good friend, and a source for a lot of the women I did date. You're not meant to date everybody you meet, but it doesn't mean that they think you're not dating material. It just means they think you're not right for them. You can't take that personally.

 

She would never describe me as "too nice." But I was never a [expletive deleted] to her. She liked me. Still does.

[carhill]

OP, long in the tooth here but did all that stuff you share in your OP long ago. You're lucky. At least you know she has a boyfriend. I had a few of those plus numerous down the road, by the way, I'm married iterations. Shockers, married people going on dates with other than spouse, I know! However, MW's read guys real good and knew I'd be easy to get rid of so heck live a little. No skin off their nose.

 

Fortunately, unlike yourself apparently, I never got the dreaded 'oh you're a nice guy' stuff. Most similar was gushing 'oh, you really care'. Yeah sister, I thought that was a normal human characteristic; guess not.

 

The key to growth here is accepting all the stuff women do as what they do and not relevant to who you are or what you do. There's billions of them on the planet and they're all interchangeable until proven irreplaceable. That might not be until she's holding your hand when you die. You just never know for sure with them. Accept it and move on.

[ja123]

I think one of the problems with the archetypical Nice Guy rather than, as basil67 pointed out, a good guy or good bloke is that they are in reality anything but.

They invariably carry a chip round on their shoulder and in their own way can be just as misogynistic as a jerk off bad boy.

 

You get this whole angry thing with them, "because I did X, Y and Z she should have had sex/gone out with me, stuck up []

 

So OP, don't be a Nice Guy (note the capitals) but do be a good bloke. Meet girls, be genuine and don't force it or be desperate. The interested ones will find a way to let you know of their interest.

 

^^^ This ^^^

 

 

Very astute observation about how 'nice guys' can be just as misogynistic as identifiable jerks.

 

 

Different side of the same coin.

Edited November 30, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Edit quote

[PegNosePete]

Yes, if you read No More Mr Nice Guy it goes into a lot more detail about how "Nice Guys" are anything but nice.

 

Nice Guys expect their niceness towards women will be rewarded with attention, dates, sex. They unilaterally make unwritten and unspoken contracts, for example "if I take out your trash every morning then you will fall in love with me". But she doesn't even know anything about this contract because she was never told about it! She always smiles, says thank you, is gracious and compliments how nice he is for taking out her trash every morning, but she never sleeps with him. The Nice Guy gets resentful and bitter; he is doing her chores but she isn't sticking to her side of the contract (which she doesn't even know exists). He calls her a user and all other kinds of names for taking advantage of his kind nature.

[fenix]

Yes, if you read No More Mr Nice Guy it goes into a lot more detail about how "Nice Guys" are anything but nice.

 

Nice Guys expect their niceness towards women will be rewarded with attention, dates, sex. They unilaterally make unwritten and unspoken contracts, for example "if I take out your trash every morning then you will fall in love with me". But she doesn't even know anything about this contract because she was never told about it! She always smiles, says thank you, is gracious and compliments how nice he is for taking out her trash every morning, but she never sleeps with him. The Nice Guy gets resentful and bitter; he is doing her chores but she isn't sticking to her side of the contract (which she doesn't even know exists). He calls her a user and all other kinds of names for taking advantage of his kind nature.

Exactly... I would dare to bring this to a next level... Our "Nice Guy" OP has decided that he will be mr "Bad Guy" and his prize for being a Jerk has to be his co-worker... she of course doesn't know her end of the deal...

[thickburger]

I was thinking about this today, and I remembered a guy I knew who was also known as "too nice". I was thinking, everybody knew it, but what was it about him, exactly?

 

1) He was really EAGER to volunteer his help. It came across as needy. Nobody did that the way he did it.

 

2) He was always the FIRST to volunteer his help. It didn't seem to matter how worthy the cause was.

 

3) You got the sense that he expected back as good as he gave, which was really over the top.

 

4) He never got angry or disagreeable. At his worst, he was discouraged.

 

5) When he liked a girl, he poured that on even more.

 

6) He seemed to be indiscriminate in who he wanted to date. If she was within our circle, even temporarily, he was on it. It reeked of desperation. I'd also have to observe that if he thought a girl was out of his league, he wouldn't even try, ask if he was intimidated. Also, first he'd make sure that other guys weren't interested, rather than competing. If another guy was interested, he'd step aside. He was far too considerate to both men and women.

 

6) He would "befriend" her before he would give dating a shot, and my recollection is that he was not nearly as aggressive with trying to be with a girl as he was offering his "help and support"

 

I think that the ordinary reaction was that this was an odd and insincere way to ingratiate himself with people. I won't go so far as to say that he was insincere, but it came across as insincere.

 

 

Sorry to kinda hijack the thread, but I think this is one of the best posts I have read on this site - It really hits home.

 

I'll admit it - some/most of that describes me.

 

I want to learn to be more assertive. I want to be more confident. I'm 30 something, I'm fit, I have friends, I have a decent job, but based on the above I'm still a 'nice guy' and I show it.

 

I always volunteer first to speak up to solve "problems" for friends/family/neighbors/relationship/etc... It just seems like that's my nature, to be "nice" - but when I look back, It seems like I have wasted lots of time and resources. I [subconsciously] expect something in return, to be treated just as 'nice' but it rarely happens, so I get disappointed - Pretty much like that 'contract' thing above.

 

I don't like saying 'no' - even in my relationships. I hate confrontation and avoid it all costs. Except with my 4 year old, I lay the smack down there.

 

I won't bore you with all the details, but my question is - Where do I start to begin turning this around. I'm not interested in becoming a Jackass but I'm just looking for some reading, guidance, etc. on working on my 'man card' and to quit being just so damn passive all the time.

[Naveen2016]

Sorry to kinda hijack the thread, but I think this is one of the best posts I have read on this site - It really hits home.

 

I'll admit it - some/most of that describes me.

 

I want to learn to be more assertive. I want to be more confident. I'm 30 something, I'm fit, I have friends, I have a decent job, but based on the above I'm still a 'nice guy' and I show it.

 

I always volunteer first to speak up to solve "problems" for friends/family/neighbors/relationship/etc... It just seems like that's my nature, to be "nice" - but when I look back, It seems like I have wasted lots of time and resources. I [subconsciously] expect something in return, to be treated just as 'nice' but it rarely happens, so I get disappointed - Pretty much like that 'contract' thing above.

 

I don't like saying 'no' - even in my relationships. I hate confrontation and avoid it all costs. Except with my 4 year old, I lay the smack down there.

 

I won't bore you with all the details, but my question is - Where do I start to begin turning this around. I'm not interested in becoming a Jackass but I'm just looking for some reading, guidance, etc. on working on my 'man card' and to quit being just so damn passive all the time.

 

 

I'm in a similar situation as you and I think you should go for boxing classes or martial arts where you have to fight with people. Once you get into that ring you will start applying that attitude towards everything in your life. In other words you will be comfortable with confrontation and fighting because you have been practising everyday for those kind of situations. Once you are ready to fight and ready to die like a tiger then you won't be mister nice guy anymore. Meeting girls and asking them out will be a piece of cake...nothing compared to a fight.

[Alamo657]

I am so over it guys. I am in general a nice guy, Do things for others out of the kindness of my own heart, but I have changed that a lot over the last year or so and started being a bit more [brusque] to women to try and drop the "nice guy" tag. I tell them what to do, I tease them about their flaws, Sometimes I come straight out and call them [names] even though they know I am joking around. More women have been calling a me [names] even my female boss called me [a rude name] the other day and surprisingly it made me feel proud of myself.

You shouldn't tease women you won't bang or behave rudely to them. You should be polite and civil, but not close or social. Distance yourself. In the work environment especially, women are extremely dangerous to get close to. But also extremely dangerous to get too far from. You need to maintain a safe distance, but not too much distance.

Now i'm "too nice" FFS when do I ever win?

You win when you stop behaving like a little girl around women. Stop gossiping, stop listening, stop confiding. Make them laugh, impress them, and walk away. If you're in no position to be an alpha male, then hang around other males and socialize with them, not with women.

This woman has literally wrecked every opportunity I have had to date other women

No, you did this to yourself.

Why would she ruin my potential relationships like that for?

Because women like to gossip, and they like to manipulate "nice guys" who believe that men and women can be "friends". They feel empowered to manipulate your life like that. Don't give them keys to get a hold on your self.

 

In your interactions with women, remember that you are not friends, you are penis they are vagina.

Your only goal is to find many women willing to be banged, and ultimately one woman willing to be your wife. All the other women should be treated with indifference when they are below you, and hierarchical respect when they are above you.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Alamo657

[PegNosePete]

Where do I start to begin turning this around. I'm not interested in becoming a Jackass but I'm just looking for some reading, guidance, etc. on working on my 'man card' and to quit being just so damn passive all the time.

I'd highly recommend the book mentioned above, No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert Glover.

[Sweetfish]

What sort of twisted logic is that?

By her telling women that you like them, she is not trying to ruin you, she is trying to set you up with other women. The fact they will not go out with you or even speak to you is on you, not her.

 

Female logic.

 

The problem with nice guys is a lot of women have no use for a nice guy.

 

Ironically, woman are worse than nice guys and their just can't be two emotional individuals in a relationship. So more men are being built to suppress their emotions and when women fall in love with them, they want them to open up. Problem is men are suppressing their emotions soo much they wont say simple things like I love you or show affection. That is literally what men are learning now.

 

Why? Because moms are telling there boys to treat women like princesses, and get a good job, and get good grades, and you'll have a good wife. Mix in a little Hollywood and Disney and right out of production you get a nice guy.

 

(This event happens because either the guy is very close to his mother or the mother expresses her unhappy feelings for the father and these values get transposed into the child to support his future wife so she is always happy) Its not even uncommon to hear a boys express he will marry his mother or sister as a child and very uncommon to her a girl say that to her father

 

nice guys are taught as men to open the car door.

To walk on the side walk closer to the street.

To walk her to her door.

Help other in need.

To listen.

 

However, he may get frustrated as the attempt to seek love and affection and the result come up inclusive or a bust. If they do finally date and the affection comes on strong... other men who are not as "needy" may appear attractive. So eventually the nice guy become jaded and instead of learning how to deal with girls/women progressively growing up... they read books and now "online PUA guides." which is like learning to fly an airplane from a text book.

 

On the flip side.

 

The guy not really giving a crap about life.

The class clown

The guy who gets what ever grades

Guy with money

Above average looks

The jock

 

May reap the benefits of dating lots of women.

 

 

 

 

 

So be like Marlon Brando...

 

-but not too long, because eventually the need to acquire the bad boy will change into

 

-a need to acquire love and affection and it will change again

 

- Now you have to commit to her within 2-3 years. (say this guy bails) he doesn't want to commit because he fear its the last vagina he will see and doesn't like baby poop etc.

 

- This same girl now is broken and needs emotional support. She now she seeks a nice guy because she knows she will get her needs meet

 

-The nice guy finally scores another relationship and both needs are aligned. She seeks love and affection and so does he.

 

However.. we know how this rebound story goes.

 

This is a cycle I see all day long.. Im not saying the LS women are like this...but many are like so.