The Art of Seduction

[nicki]

I am always interested in psychology, and manipulation, and used to have a lot of fun attracting and maniuplating men, but one thing i've learned from experience is this:

 

Emotionally healthy people RUN from someone who is continually blowing them off or being mean to them. Screwed up people, on the other hand, chase the person and try to make them love them. DYSFUNCTIONAL = BAD PARTNER

 

It took me a few bad relationships to:

 

1. Spot the guys who only wanted me when i didn't want them. Now I back away instead of chase. I send them the signal that I don't like that crap. Be an emotional equal, or get lost.

 

2. To learn to "be really whole and know that all I need will come to me." That means I have an interesting life. Sometimes I am REALLY too busy to go out one night. I don't pretend to be. This way I keep my relationships in balance. I have other eggs in my basket, so to speak.

 

3. If I feel I need to manipulate, I now calmly assert what I want or need, or how I feel. If I really like a guy, I tell him/show him, etc....but I don't go over the top, either.

 

Anyway, a book like this is interesting, and true to a degree, too....but it can be dangerous to hide your true self. It's much better to put yourself out there, have fun and respect the person you are targeting as a love interest...

 

[tanbark813]

Originally posted by XNemesisX

Ahhh I see...I didn't know you had read it!

 

A friend of mine suggested I read it after I broke up with an ex from a few years ago. He was convinced she was using techniques outlined in the book.

 

Originally posted by XNemesisX

Well doesn't it say in the book somewhere that you already have somewhat of an attachment to the "victim' to want to seduce them??

 

It may say that. It's been a couple years since I've read it. But from what I recall the people in the stories sometimes had an attachment to their victims, but other times just manipulated them for sport.

[Swamp]

I am sorry. I don't think you guys are understanding the point of the book.

 

It has nothing to do with putting on a facade, or acting like someone you aren't.

 

It is about how to shape yourself up to be as attractive as you can possibly be, and how to effectively use your attraction to seduce someone mentally, emotionally, and physically. Seducing them to the point that they drop their guard to you and you can cultivate a good relationship with them.

 

You people and your hollow fantasy of "REAL LOVE" are not only funny, but almost frightening. Guys, these Hollywood fairy tales do not really happen. Human beings don't fall in love with upfront vulnerability. They don't like to be smothered. You don't FIND real love. You grow it. It is not something that happens without a great foundation of friendship, respect, and trust.

 

In order to get started on a mutually interested friendship path with someone, you have to attract them and warm them up a little.

 

This is not about breaking someone's heart, per se, but breaking someone's armor.

 

The human mind is not attracted to someone who spills their guts. A guy who "wants a girl to love him for who he is", or a girl who "just wants to meet a nice guy" are not attractive people. You have to learn how to be reserved. How and when to be warm and endearing, or cold and distant.

 

I took the girl whom I absolutely chose on our 3rd date last night. I decided I would date her. I have decided she would fall in love with me. Especially after we have so many things in common, and share the same kind of sarcastic sense of humor.

 

I chose her. I applied tactics to her to warm her up to me. I have coaxed her to come out of her shell. She has dropped her guard to me a little, and we have had some of the coolest conversations because of it. We are really on a good path to a great friendship. She will fall in love with me. I will fall in love with her.

 

I haven't changed a thing about ME as a person, however. I have only changed my approach to her. I read her, I gauged her level of independence (which is very high), I felt out her character a little bit, and I applied the appropriate tactics.

 

All of you are here because you are not perfect at dating. You can sit there and dream about some knight in shining armor coming to get you all you want, or you can go get him yourself.

 

But do not EVER mistake this for something that is not genuine, is fake, or ultimately manipulative. These laws are laws of attraction. Being attractive is not something you naturally are, which is a huge misconception. Being attractive takes a lot of self-awareness and PRACTICE.

[XNemesisX]

So it looks as though the book has helped you!

 

I agree with what you are saying and you know...it does say in the book that people who say that love is about luck..or being "meant to be" are just lazy. You have to know what you are doing and get in that person's head to really be successful.

 

This book is about creating a fantasy too...getting someone to idealize you. It creates romance..you can make romance happen. Life doesn't need to be boring..and well, people are sick of reality. They need a little romance to spice up their life and I do think this book gives you ideas on how to shake things up and make someone idealize you instead of always seeing things realistically.

 

Since you have read the book, Swamp, do you think it is possible for me to get this guy to act the way he used to? He used to be head over heels in love with me! How can I get that back!? Should I just ignore him then pull that shocking text message that I was planning (I sort of got this idea from Greene's book). What is your opinion?

 

Sorry I am obsessing so much guys

[nicki]

Yes, I agree that there are "skills" that can be taught if someone doesn't yet have them.

 

BUT, I think these kinds of books teach it from an external perspective, ie., how to act confident and put together, and you will soon feel that way. This approach can be helpful, but it must be internalized at some point...and when it does, it's called CONFIDENCE.

 

And someone who is genuinely confident and who has a life is already attractive. They don't spill their guts prematurely because they are in balance. They are not needy and clingy.

 

Rather, their sense of equanimity comes from a deep internal knowledge of who they are and what they want. And people sense this and are attracted to them.

 

I don't believe in manipulating people. But if the book helps someone develop their own self, that's great. Just don't worship the boat that gets you to the other side of the river. When you don't need it anymore, leave it and walk on your own.

[tanbark813]

Originally posted by Swamp

All of you are here because you are not perfect at dating.

 

So why are you here?

[crazy_grl]

Originally posted by Swamp

You people and your hollow fantasy of "REAL LOVE" are not only funny, but almost frightening. Guys, these Hollywood fairy tales do not really happen. Human beings don't fall in love with upfront vulnerability. They don't like to be smothered. You don't FIND real love. You grow it.

 

The Hollywood fantasy of love is what sells these kinds of stupid books. I'm not now nor am I ever talking about the unhealthy image of love that Hollywood portrays. I'm talking mutual understanding and caring between two people who are healthy, honest, and self-sufficient.

 

I find it funny that you think people are talking about Hollywood love when they say real love. And yes, you do have to FIND real love, because to grow it makes it sound like you can walk out on the street and just create love with any person. It doesn't work that way, because not all people are compatible. You do have to work for real love, but you can't create it where it doesn't belong.

 

It is not something that happens without a great foundation of friendship, respect, and trust.

 

And manipulating someone into loving you by treating them like a target doesn't establish any foundation of friendship, respect, or trust. So you've just made my point right there.

 

The human mind is not attracted to someone who spills their guts. A guy who "wants a girl to love him for who he is", or a girl who "just wants to meet a nice guy" are not attractive people. You have to learn how to be reserved. How and when to be warm and endearing, or cold and distant.

 

I'm sorry you feel that way. People are attracted to me just fine without manipulating them and 'playing' warm and endeering or cold and distant based on how I should best 'handle' them. Just because you're not manipulating someone doesn't mean you're a sniveling baby who goes around pouring your heart out and begging to be loved.

 

In fact, the reason that I don't have the relationship I wanted right now is because I used a stupid little tactic instead of just being honest about how I felt.

 

Reading books about how to be happy with yourself is a better use of your time, because you actually become someone people want to be around and someone who's energy people will be attracted to. When you're happy with yourself, you won't have to manipulate people into liking you. They just naturally will.

 

All of you are here because you are not perfect at dating. You can sit there and dream about some knight in shining armor coming to get you all you want, or you can go get him yourself.

 

I prefer to dream about being the best person I possibly can without manipulating people and without applying 'tactics' to them. If the right man comes, he comes. If not, oh well. At least I can be happy with myself and my own choices.

 

If I go out and choose my knight in shining armor, I'll get myself into trouble by seeing him as a knight when he might not actually be deserving of the title. IMO, more people have that problem than they do waiting for the right guy to come along.

 

But do not EVER mistake this for something that is not genuine, is fake, or ultimately manipulative. These laws are laws of attraction. Being attractive is not something you naturally are, which is a huge misconception. Being attractive takes a lot of self-awareness and PRACTICE.

 

In your experience, maybe. People who are happy with themselves, confident, friendly, considerate, and ambitious are naturally attractive. They don't have to memorize tactics and techniques, because people are drawn to who they really are. Work on that, not on "laws" of attraction.

[Swamp]

Like I said, this isn't about lying or manipulating someone into believing you are someone that you aren't. In fact, if you are not happy with yourself first and foremost -- you have no reason to go looking for love. But for people who are confident in themselves, or feel they maybe have been gipped out of good relationships or potential relationships -- these tactics certainly, absolutely apply.

 

I am just smacking my head at how this does not connect with people.

 

I love the idea that you think you can just go find "real love." R-r-r-r-ight.

 

Love is essentially: friendship, respect, trust, experience, acceptance and... attraction.

 

You grow a friendship. You earn respect. You gain trust. Experiences take time. Acceptance takes fully understanding.

 

None of those things exist when you first meet someone on the street. That is where the problem lies with people, especially people who think it doesn't require self-mastery to be able to develop these things with someone. You are so stuck on the word "manipulation" that you are missing the point. You don't con someone into being your other half. You coax them.

 

ATTRACTION is the BRIDGE that you cross to reach: friendship, respect, trust, experience and acceptance. It is a temporary bridge you build for someone. You keep them interested in you on 1 level, and on another level patiently introduce the genuine elements of yourself to them. Sometimes you have them chasing you around and wondering about your intentions because of your mystery. When you feel they have chased long enough and are curious enough -- you have a genuine, vulnerable, honest conversation with them, or do something naturally in your character to warm them up to see how vulnerable of a person you GENUINELY are. Then, after they begin to take you for granted (which is a predictable human response in early stages of developing a friendship) you back off and have them wondering again. Eventually, overtime, you will both know eachother, respect eachother, trust eachother, have history with eachother, accept eachother, and ultimately: love eachother.

 

This is not about barbarically attacking someone with a facade. It's about carefully attacking someone with THE GENUINE YOU. You bait people with your honest, genuine character. You don't shove it down their throats and hope they enjoy the taste.

 

"The honest, genuine me isn't the type of person that wants to bait someone."

 

Right. http://www.loveshack.org will be in business for a long time if you can't figure out how tame yourself.

 

p.s. I come here because no one ever told me this stuff when I was repeatedly getting my heart stomped on.

[millefiori]

I think Swamp needs someone to explain to him the terms "manipulation" and "control". The things you did, trying to understand what's going inside your girl's head, you do, because you're interested in her as a person, not because you were out to control her, you did not want a puppet on a string.

 

If you pretend to be someone that you're not, you're not going to keep that person. She's reacting to your attempts to woo her, because you have some qualities that she finds attractive. Put up a mask, create a more attractive persona, you will only end up with having to work your butt off to keep her, because sooner or later people see through the manipulation. That is so different to presenting oneself in the best possible way. The terminology of this book, "victim", "manipulation", "control", etc. says it all, it reminds me of war, but not of love.

 

I think two people who share similar beliefs and values, feel attracted to each other physically and have a good friendship in the end will end up together. It's unavoidable.

 

crazy_grl, I'm all with you.

 

XNemesisX, I would dump this guy. He sounds like a nutcase.

[millefiori]

Swamp, just read your post. Ok, I think I will take back what I said about you. I do think though that XNemesisX description of the book is a manual for manipulation and not a way of coaxing someone into your heart. The objective is also not to find genuine love, but to gain control over people.

[Swamp]

Originally posted by millefiori

 

I think two people who share similar beliefs and values, feel attracted to each other physically and have a good friendship in the end will end up together. It's unavoidable.

 

I am guessing you posted this at the same time I posted mine.

 

This is PRECISELY the point.

[Swamp]

Right, but the thing is, 90% of human beings are not sadistic, merciless creatures. Most people have emotional desires, and the deep yearning to be compassionately loved, even buried under the most unlovable hearts.

 

The idea, is that you use these tactics to take power over someone's heart. Where this book can be used maliciously is where someone does not actually become vulnerable to the other person in exchange. You are kicking the barriers around someone elses heart down, and keeping yours down as well. The thing is though, who would ever do that? I sincerely doubt anyone from LS would do that. I doubt most people (90%) would do that.

 

This isn't how to intoxicate someone in 20 minutes, and make them fall completely under your spell. It takes a lot of time, effort, energy, restraint and skill. If someone wants to spend that much time on someone, behind a mask, just to make someone fall head over heels for them, just so in the long run they can completely enslave the person -- they are SICK. It's rather obvious what tactics you actually use, and what tactics are almost tongue-in-cheek.

[lindya]

The people who are generally described as being manipulative may well just be the ones whose motives are very transparent to others. Children are often described as manipulative because they have yet to learn sophisticated methods of asserting themselves without causing a scene or appearing ridiculous to others. For them, the only happy medium between aggression and victimhood might involve passive-aggressive methods such as sulking, back-biting or insincere use of charm.

 

This book sounds as if it's encouraging readers to venture into the playground, armed with adult sophistication and ready to do battle with innocents. I'm not sure how many true innocents there are out there, however. I'm sure many people would read a book like that mainly so that they are better able to identify those culprits who are keen to put its techniques into practice.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by Aimée

Do love and control not contradict? Who would be interested in manipulating his love interest in falling in love with him? What's so wonderful about a relationship where you have to hide your true self in order to keep someone attached to you?

 

AMEN!

[pinkxchiffon]

"I'm sure many people would read a book like that mainly so that they are better able to identify those culprits who are keen to put its techniques into practice."

 

I completely agree with this. It is, after all, the reason I began to study the bk .. I'm currently engaged in a veritable power struggle with a close 'friend", who happens to pride herself on her ability to play mindgames. I read the bk as a survival tactic. I needed to learn how to play her game in order to stop feeling so wretched about myself - or, more accurately, to figure out how she made me feel so wretched. I can't yet figure out whether it's better to be an innocent or a manipulator. Innocents will too often be hurt and disillusioned because they are easy targets for manipulative people. I think it's best to be a happy medium. It's good to know the game and to know the tactics so that, if you ever encounter a manipulator, you will be able to recognize, and perhaps defeat them. Manipulation can be fun - so long as it is only used when someone truly deserves it.

[ms. biz]

This may be the most insiteful thread I've read yet. Ya gotta say one thing about the book....it gets you thinking.

 

HOWEVER, any sort of "TACTIC" used on a human in order to gain their admiration, for me just seems to defeat the purpose of experiencing something REAL with someone.

 

I AM an innocent, and I often FANTASIZE about being a manipulator. What I have found is it simply goes against MY nature!

 

Laws of attraction? Sure I believe that. But just like every other law in nature/animal kingdom, there are groups that don't fit the pattern. Don't you know any couples that met, spilled their guts, were just being themselves, fell in love and lived happily ever after? I DO!!!

 

The book does have validity, but the terminology is gross. The writer of the book is using TACTICS to ATTRACT the TYPE of person who is already, by nature inclined to manipulate others to get what (they think) they want.

 

Swamp is right. Honesty and vulnerability are NOT attractive to ALOT of people.

Crazygirl is right. "F" those people.

[Marshbear]

ATTRACTION is the BRIDGE that you cross to reach: friendship, respect, trust, experience and acceptance. It is a temporary bridge you build for someone. You keep them interested in you on 1 level, and on another level patiently introduce the genuine elements of yourself to them.

 

I think is statement is very true.

 

Thanks swamp....

[Swamp]

Originally posted by pinkxchiffon

"I'm sure many people would read a book like that mainly so that they are better able to identify those culprits who are keen to put its techniques into practice."

 

I completely agree with this. It is, after all, the reason I began to study the bk .. I'm currently engaged in a veritable power struggle with a close 'friend", who happens to pride herself on her ability to play mindgames. I read the bk as a survival tactic. I needed to learn how to play her game in order to stop feeling so wretched about myself - or, more accurately, to figure out how she made me feel so wretched. I can't yet figure out whether it's better to be an innocent or a manipulator. Innocents will too often be hurt and disillusioned because they are easy targets for manipulative people. I think it's best to be a happy medium. It's good to know the game and to know the tactics so that, if you ever encounter a manipulator, you will be able to recognize, and perhaps defeat them. Manipulation can be fun - so long as it is only used when someone truly deserves it.

 

Real comes later. If you find someone who is vulnerable upfront, they are very intertwined within the webs of insecurity. Slowly break someone's barricades down, and have your own.

 

The book is insanely on point.