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Posted

This book will appeal to your DARK side.

 

I'm not trying to sound like CIOC here, but I have found a book worth mentioning. I have learned a lot already!

 

It's by Robert Greene and it's called the Art of Seduction. There is even a website devoted to this book.

 

Robert Greene is the author of the best selling book "The 48 Laws of Power" which I also bought. :p

 

I have just started reading "The Art of Seduction" and I already have trouble putting it down. It's not some cheesy corney self-help book. It has a lot of history in it too about all of the most timeless and memorable romantics (Casanova, Cleopatra, Marilyn Monroe....the list goes on).

 

Did I mention this book is just plain evil? This book is all about how to manipulate people, control them, always have the upper hand, and basically get them to become obsessed with you.

 

The key is getting into that person's mind. The book explains that love is not luck or necessarily common sense. It's purely psychological so it's crucial to know how that person's mind works and what you can do to get in their psyche and get them to fall in love with you.

 

The book calls your love interest "the victim" which I find amusing and it also contains TONS of different personality types and what you can do to win over that type. You can also find your own personality type in the book. I gurantee you will see yourself in one of the types. I think I am the "Coquette" and the guy I currently like is a "Natural."

 

The second part of the book is the seduction process and it explains in depth the pleasure/pain principle, opening the "victim's" wounds, isolating that person from familiarity, hot/cold, the importance of absence....

 

It also tells you anti-seductive qualities which we all have some of them. I have learned SOOO much.

 

Has anyone read any of Robert Greene's books? This guy is the master manipulator...and just plain evil. (in a good way of course) ;)

Posted

Do love and control not contradict? Who would be interested in manipulating his love interest in falling in love with him? What's so wonderful about a relationship where you have to hide your true self in order to keep someone attached to you?

Posted

Pisser that so many people can make money by feeding off the insecurities and inexperience of others. Modern day love-potions. They take the basic information I learned in school about how to motivate, understand, and manipulate co-workers, superiors, and subordinates in the workplace, and rearranged a few things to apply the principle to romantic relationships, but they leave out the part about learning about the Self and adjusting/changing the behavior and attitudes of self.

 

I saw a cartoon years ago, Ziggy maybe?, that shows the character walking into a book store and standing in front of two multi-shelf displays of books. One is filled with books the other set of shelves is empty. The sign over the full shelves says "How to Improve Yourself" and the sign over the empty shelves says "How to Improve Your Mate" I thought it apt.

 

I also remember reading in a teen magazine (way back when I was a teen!) advice for girls on how to attract boys. One thing that was mentioned that I have always remembered told girls to only be seen with less-attractive female friends so that the boys would notice how pretty You are. How horrible was that!? I looked at my friends for a long time wondering if they were hanging around me so they would look better, or worried about them thinking that's why I was hanging around them.

 

The art of seduction? Be yourself. Know yourself. Know what you like and find someone who shares your interests and is confident in their own right.

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Posted

I see what you all are saying...I'm not taking the book completely to heart but I think it has a lot of good stuff in it.

 

I lot of it is just common sense stuff that is elaborated on and made to sound controversial....

 

But regardless...I do like reading the historical stories that are in it :)

Posted
Originally posted by XNemesisX

It's by Robert Greene and it's called the Art of Seduction. There is even a website devoted to this book.

Hmmm....sounds like interesting reading...I'll have to peruse it sometime :)

 

It has a lot of history in it too about all of the most timeless and memorable romantics (Casanova, Cleopatra, Marilyn Monroe....the list goes on).

 

Lets see... Casanova invented the STD, Cleopatra was a power-hungry wench and Marilyn killed herself. Wonderful romantics!

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Posted

:laugh:

 

Well I didn't know that about Casanova. Marilyn is under the "siren" personality type. It told her story, but it says that "sirens" are the women who really have only their physical presence going for them. Even though she may not have had the most beautiful face, she had that physical appeal. It says in the book that once your looks start to fade, "sirens" don't have much going for them anymore and this is what led to Marilyn's suicide.

 

Cleopatra was also under the "siren" section. She knew how to dress and also had a physical presence without the most beautiful face. But what really made her stand out was how she could manipulate men, and make them fear her. It says fear is a great way to get someone to fall in love with you as messed up as it sounds.

 

Casanova was under the "Ideal Lover" type.

 

"Rakes" are supposed to be the ultimate players. It used Bill Clinton and John F. Kennedy for examples. It tells you what gets to a rake, but that you should always think of them as more like temporary relationships because they can't stay faithful.

 

I think you would love this book alphamale! A lot of the stuff I have read in this book mirrors the things you say. I actually really love this book! When I read through the part 2: Seduction process I realize that all of the guys I have fell for did the things it talked about. In the anti-seduction phase, I realized that all the guys I did NOT like did those things.

Posted

Sounds to artificial and contrived to me. I don't want to go into a relationship wondering what type of seducer the person may be. Unless I am having a problem picking a person who is "right" for me I'd much prefer getting to know them and making my own judgments.

 

Is you interest in helping to find someone right for you or are you trying to psycho analyze and get into peoples heads for your own interests?

Posted

I think reading this book is good in order to gain more knowledge about different tactics of manipulation, to be able to recognize it when people attempt to manipulate you. I wouldn't recommend it though if your goal is to find a truly fulfilling relationship. People want to be loved for themselves and not for the facade they present. They are the most happy when you see beyond it, when you recognize them for what they are and still love and accept them.

Posted

Wow. I can't believe anyone would actually want to read a book like that. Well, anyone other than alpha.

 

Originally posted by XNemesisX

The second part of the book is the seduction process and it explains in depth the pleasure/pain principle, opening the "victim's" wounds, isolating that person from familiarity, hot/cold, the importance of absence....

 

And this sounds like the same things people who are abusive do to their partners. Not joking. I guess if you want to view your partner as a victim instead of an equal, then more power to ya and good luck with that...

 

I'd personally rather be with someone I didn't have to analyze and manipulate, someone I could relax and be myself with. If you can't do that, I don't see the point.

Posted
Originally posted by crazy_grl

Wow. I can't believe anyone would actually want to read a book like that. Well, anyone other than alpha.

Let's face it, we are all curious. We all want to know more about people and how they tick, that's why we're here on LS reading posts. It's your responsibility how you intend to use this knowledge, but I always feel it's better to know more than too little (but admitted, I prefer to be with people who are less suspicious and more trusting than I am).

Posted
Originally posted by XNemesisX

Has anyone read any of Robert Greene's books?

 

I've read the 48 laws. 2 observations:

 

1. The morals are contrived. He finds situations where one person defeated another, reverse engineers a strategy to match the behavior, and then calls it a Law. Not to say he is always wrong, but bear in mind it's unlikely he's always right.

 

2. Often, the laws contradict each other, e.g. "crush your enemy completely" and "improve your reputation through forgiveness." Therefore, take the book with a grain of salt.

 

The morals are interesting to ponder, his speculation about the strategies of legendary figures is fascinating, and the vignettes are well told. Read the book, think about any given "law" as one of many available options in any applicable situation, but don't follow them zealously.

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Posted

Without a doubt Scratch. Even in the Art of Seduction he contradicts himself but you have to remember (and he says this in the book) that different situations will call for different tactics. You have to be the judge as to what will work on that person.

 

Example: In the book it says to make that person feel special, give them lots of attention, pay close attention to DETAIL. Then in another part it says to play cold to that person, dissapear for a while...etc etc.

 

He later explains this contradiction. If the person is happy, content, usually gets what they want then playing cold will do the trick. Act like you don't care about them.

 

However, if the person has recently been hurt, is depressed, etc then you should lavish them with attention and boost their ego. They will love you for how you make them feel.

 

All in all though, it does say in the book that you shouldn't get involved with someone who is completely content with their life, or is very busy. If they are totally content as they are, they will not need you and you want someone to need you. If they are too busy or don't seem to want to make you a priority, then you should give up. They won't have time to think about you or fantasize/idealize you.

 

It also says you need to come up with a strategy for every person you want to "seduce." I have already come up with a strategy on the guy that I like. I found his personality type and I'm going to do the "shock" tactic. I'm ignoring him this week and if he calls I'm going to act very cold. Then, in a week and half or maybe even 2 I will send him a text message such as "I want you so bad! I don't know what has come over me!"

 

It says that if you shock people or act in ways out of character it will intrigue them.....

 

Ahhh we will see won't we?

:)

 

P.S. Millefori, you are correct. I really wanted to read this book to see just how bad I have been manipulated. And what do you know? Everything it says in that book is what this guy is doing to me right now and it works! I'm taking mental notes..... ;)

Posted

It really depends on the man / woman you are targeting. I just have the impression that the basic premisses were already existant in Macchiavelli's "Il principe." It is just an advanced class of game playing it seems. But the procedure, even if it supposedly leads to a happy end, annuls the premise of the game: that it is about love.

Posted

Ahhh, XnemesisX,

 

I can understand the whole psychology behind it… but to me that would stop me from being able to actually FALL for someone. For me, falling for someone has meant revealing my inner most self, being so real about who I was and I what I was feeling. And them being/showing they were into me in return. I do think it sounds so contrived, that you may actually forget to feel things yourself and then when they are wrapped around your finger, they may smother you… so the end will totally defeat the initial intention. I don’t fall for it for a second. As interesting as the read may be.

 

I agree, this seems like something Alphamale would be interested in. But to me, that’s closing yourself off from REAL LOVE.

Posted

That's why it's entitled "The Art of Seduction" and not "The Art of Finding Real Love". ;)

Posted

Yes, but you are not going to test the theory on a random (fe)male beggar you find in the street, do you Tanbark? No, it is about "victims" who somehow must be seduced for your own selfish needs. Somehow I doubt that people will use this technique to let others listen to your own oboe playing skills.

Posted
Originally posted by XNemesisX

It also says you need to come up with a strategy for every person you want to "seduce." I have already come up with a strategy on the guy that I like. I found his personality type and I'm going to do the "shock" tactic. I'm ignoring him this week and if he calls I'm going to act very cold. Then, in a week and half or maybe even 2 I will send him a text message such as "I want you so bad! I don't know what has come over me!"

 

It says that if you shock people or act in ways out of character it will intrigue them.....

 

Ahhh we will see won't we?

:)

 

XNX, up to this point, I've thought you were an intelligent and insightful person, but the fact that you're considering this has me questioning that. Please tell me you're doing this just as a social experiment and not as a way to actually get a boyfriend. Granted, that would still be mean, but the idea that someone would believe that kind of behavior could lead to a healthy relationship is ridiculous.

 

P.S. Millefori, you are correct. I really wanted to read this book to see just how bad I have been manipulated. And what do you know? Everything it says in that book is what this guy is doing to me right now and it works! I'm taking mental notes..... ;)

 

You want to be with a guy who you think is manipulating you why? If he's not manipulating you, he's just not interested, because people do some of those same types of things when they're not.

 

Using manipulation techniques like shocking people by acting out of character will only attract those who are slightly whacko. Believe me, I know. I've used them to get guys without having read it in a book and the only ones I got were the nuts ones. The sane, stable guys ran for the hills, because acting like you're completely uninterested then sending seducing messages out of the blue is a sign of mental instability.

 

If you're looking for a social experiment, go ahead and do it, but if you're looking to pull in a boyfriend from this, I think you're making a mistake.

Posted
Originally posted by tanbark813

That's why it's entitled "The Art of Seduction" and not "The Art of Finding Real Love". ;)

 

Exactly.

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Posted

Crazy_grl,

 

I am not taking this as serious as a heart attack or anything, but it is amusing me at the moment. :o

 

I don't know if he is manipulating me or not, or if he is just not interested in me anymore. Here is a little background and see what you think:

 

*He has been hot after me for the past 8 months or so

*He acted CRAZY about me when we dated for 2 months (this was about 6 months ago from now)

*I dumped him

*He dissapeared for a while, then came back BEGGING me to go back out with him, even suggesting we get married.

*Finally, after standing him up countless times, I go drive 5 hours to spend a weekend with him.

*The first 2 days of the weekend he acted CRAZY about me just like he did before and I didn't really respond because I wasn't sure how to take it. He even told me he loved me, and that he wanted me to move there, that he would support me til I found a job, that he would find me friends there, etc ETC

*Last day of the trip he acted like he couldn't care less about me.

*I coudn't believe he was ignoring me after all of this so I left him a text saying "Just as I expected." and he called right back.

*We fought like cats and dogs the week after the trip, last time I talked to him was Sunday. he asked me about this other guy and I told him we were just friends and he goes "Whatever. It doesn't matter." Then said "have a good day" and hung up :confused:

 

I don't know if this is a game he's playing or if he is just mentally unstable, or if I blew it somehow.

 

This was pretty much the motivation behind buying this book. I coudln't understand why I wouldn't like him when he was crazy over me, then I started feeling like I loved him when he backed off and wanted him to go back to being crazy about me! What a mind f***. :(

Posted
Originally posted by d'Arthez

Yes, but you are not going to test the theory on a random (fe)male beggar you find in the street, do you Tanbark? No, it is about "victims" who somehow must be seduced for your own selfish needs. Somehow I doubt that people will use this technique to let others listen to your own oboe playing skills.

 

Of course, and I agree. My comment was just in response to SummerRae saying you won't find real love this way. IMO, the title and description of the book make it clear that the book contains tactics to fulfill your own desires or needs, albeit selfishly, rather than strategies for finding true love.

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Posted
Originally posted by tanbark813

Of course, and I agree. My comment was just in response to SummerRae saying you won't find real love this way. IMO, the title and description of the book make it clear that the book contains tactics to fulfill your own desires or needs, albeit selfishly, rather than strategies for finding true love.

 

Not true.

 

Don't be deceived by the title. Its not about sex, it IS about getting someone to fall in love with you.

Posted
Originally posted by XNemesisX

Not true.

 

Don't be deceived by the title. Its not about sex, it IS about getting someone to fall in love with you.

 

I haven't been deceived by the title because I've read the book (I think I'm The Professor if I remember correctly). ;) And yes, it is about getting someone to fall in love with you. That's the seduction part. But real love is not only getting someone to fall in love with you, it is also about falling in love with them at the same time. The book does not address this (as it does not fall under the purpose). In many of the stories included in the book by way of demonstrating the different techniques, if not all of them, the love was one-sided and very unbalanced. That's part of what makes the seduction aspect so successful.

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Posted

Ahhh I see...I didn't know you had read it! :)

 

Well doesn't it say in the book somewhere that you already have somewhat of an attachment to the "victim' to want to seduce them??

 

The game playing....makes you wonder if it's really game playing or the people just weren't all that interested. You have to wonder how much of what people do is a game or if it's really them just not being interested. Probably the latter....

 

Just bums me out that this guy acts head over heels in love with me until recently. I obsess about what I did wrong.

Posted
Originally posted by XNemesisX

I am not taking this as serious as a heart attack or anything, but it is amusing me at the moment. :o

 

That's good. Just be careful, because I think the kind of stuff written in that book leads people to be miserable and then they can't figure out what happened. After all, they followed all the "rules" and made all the "right moves", so they should have everything they wanted. The sad part is that even when you get what you want, it's not what you thought it would be. Basically, if you use the advice of books like that to look for real love, you're setting yourself up only for pain.

 

Like tanbark said, it's about seduction, not love. It actually sounds a lot like that The Rules book, which claims to tell you how to find love too. They'll both get you someone, but not necessarily someone worth having.

 

I don't know if he is manipulating me or not, or if he is just not interested in me anymore. Here is a little background and see what you think:

 

*He has been hot after me for the past 8 months or so

*He acted CRAZY about me when we dated for 2 months (this was about 6 months ago from now)

*I dumped him

*He dissapeared for a while, then came back BEGGING me to go back out with him, even suggesting we get married.

*Finally, after standing him up countless times, I go drive 5 hours to spend a weekend with him.

*The first 2 days of the weekend he acted CRAZY about me just like he did before and I didn't really respond because I wasn't sure how to take it. He even told me he loved me, and that he wanted me to move there, that he would support me til I found a job, that he would find me friends there, etc ETC

*Last day of the trip he acted like he couldn't care less about me.

*I coudn't believe he was ignoring me after all of this so I left him a text saying "Just as I expected." and he called right back.

*We fought like cats and dogs the week after the trip, last time I talked to him was Sunday. he asked me about this other guy and I told him we were just friends and he goes "Whatever. It doesn't matter." Then said "have a good day" and hung up :confused:

 

I don't know if this is a game he's playing or if he is just mentally unstable, or if I blew it somehow.

 

Hmm... that's a very weird situation. I'm not sure, but it could be a little of all three. The fact that he came back begging you to get married after you were broken up and had only dated for about 2 months prior to that suggests he could be mentally unstable or just has a really confused view on relationships. I think he might have been acting like he cared less as a way to get back at you for standing him up so many times.

 

I think you'd be best just to wash your hands of him and stop worrying about it. It sounds very frustrating and disfuctional, and by worrying about it, you're only going to bring yourself down.

 

This was pretty much the motivation behind buying this book. I coudln't understand why I wouldn't like him when he was crazy over me, then I started feeling like I loved him when he backed off and wanted him to go back to being crazy about me! What a mind f***. :(

 

My feeling is that if you want someone only because they don't want you, it's not love. If your feelings have more to do with whether the person wants you or not than how you really feel about them as a person, it's not love. It may feel like love, but I think infatuation or obsession are more accurate terms. Think about whether you'd really want to be with him if he were calling you every day, sending you messages, and professing his love for you. If the answer is no, then move on. Everybody wants what they can't have, but having healthy relationships means you have to overcome that childish impulse. And we all have trouble overcoming it.

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Posted

Thanks Crazy_grl for your input...I had been considering posting this situation in a thread, it's too confusing for me to decipher.

 

I'm not sure if it is the fact that he is ignoring me now..or what it is. The day before the last day of the trip I noticed I started feeling jealous over him (which I never felt jealous over him before) and I started having feelings for him even when he was still acting wild over me. When he acted like he didn't care about me on the last day it just intensified what I felt for some reason.

 

I guess I just have to remember the 2 months that we dated and how annoyed I was by him. He was always in my face, calling me, clinging to me and I wanted to run from him (and eventually did). Somehow he changed that on me. Now it has been me calling him but I have made excuses for the raging voicemails I left him. I told him I was just calling because I was scared he told someone something (looong story).

 

I think I remembered something super nice he did for me when we dated. I wondered if since he was the rebound guy after my breakup if that was the only reason I broke up wtih him, and if I made a mistake. So, I just went for it and drove 5 hours to spend 3 days with him not knowing I would end up liking him back, then he would (apparently) reject me!

 

Makes me sick. Maybe this is his sick revenge on me for breaking up with him in the past and not being responsive to his "professions of love" or whatever it was.

 

I know he is mentally unstable actually. He attempted suicide 7 months ago and ended up in the hospital. But for some reason, it draws me to him more. I'm strange in that I find people who are a tad wacko being intriguing. :confused:

 

I just want him back. At this point, I would move 5 hours to a place where I know absolutly no one just to be with him and now he acts like he doesn't care. What the HELL is wrong with me?!

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